Ok, I know this has been addressed before but i cant seem to find the thread so i made a new one.
There is a certain respect you have to show when using DF, and just because you are the tank and it is your job to set the pace of the run, that doesn't give you the right to force your party to speedrun.
Yes, there are people out there like me who have the HQ crafted/Materia'd gear that DF to relax. Hell in the mornings i run to as a warm up to kick start my day and get my brain running. The last think i want is some over zealous tank that thinks i need to be forced into Speedruns. As much as i hate to say it but i have started leaving DF when the tank tries to force one because honestly, i see no point in stressing to shave maybe 3-5 minutes off a run, possibly extending it longer than a normal run would take due to OOM issues because there is 90% of the time either no AoE DD and being expected to spam Holy, no Bard or both. No Thank you. for a Tank to expect a WHM to pull double duty is extremely uncalled for. Now here is where i get told that Healers should DD in dungeons and blah blah blah. True, and I do, when and where it is appropriate, but to be expected to keep the entire party alive, spam holy (unnecessary MP sink when not needed). Oh, i can use food or ethers right? What gives the tanks the right to assume i have food and ethers on me?(i always have mega-ethers and mulled tea on me, but not the point) Again, What gives the tank the right to dictate how i spend my gil (ie replacing consumables used in DF).
This did get me to thinking, are these tanks that big of D-Bags on their servers that they have to DF SRs? Honestly, at any given time on Balmung, i can go to Mor Dhona and there are atleast 15 shouts for WP SR parties looking for tanks. Just saying, you have to wonder why they need the anonymity of the DF...
Ever WHM healed an SR without a Bard? OOM comes very fast when no song happens. or try with a Bard and a monk? No AoE damage from the monk, both taking damage, more cures, one is sure to wipe, i get blamed? WP SR Party Requirements:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Tank: Paladin
Healer: WHM
DD: Bard(for songs) and BLM(for AoE damage)
I know how to SR, and when i do want to, I do it with friends, I dont want to be made to cause the tank is too ignorant to ask if we want to.
DF Speedruns
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12-04-2013, 04:41 PMSeezur_UndiesDF Speedruns
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12-04-2013, 04:42 PMAlhanelem
You can't really force your party to do anything. If you don't like what some jerkwad is doing, then don't cooperate and they'll either have to cooperate with you or get themselves killed. After 2.1, if the majority of you don't like someone's behavior you can vote kick them.
That being said, unless you're not capable, I can't comprehend why you *wouldn't* want to speedrun. There is no advantage to doing the dungeon slower.
You have to look at things from both sides - they probably dislike you just as much for not wanting to speedrun as much as you dislike them for wanting to do it.
This is a load of crap, I've done SRs with no BRD, and no BLM. (I'm SMN). It's not *the fastest* but the speed run strategy can be applied to many team comps. Scholars can heal an SR just fine, and don't run out of MP as easily as a WHM.Quote:
Ever WHM healed an SR without a Bard? OOM comes very fast when no song happens. or try with a Bard and a monk? No AoE damage from the monk, both taking damage, more cures, one is sure to wipe, i get blamed? WP SR Party Requirements:
Tank: Paladin
Healer: WHM
DD: Bard(for songs) and BLM(for AoE damage)
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12-04-2013, 04:54 PMKraggyKorBecause entering 'speedrun' into the SEARCH box is hard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies
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12-04-2013, 05:04 PMSeezur_Undies3 pages of forign language posts, and none about actual DF Speedruns, but thanks for for the obvious advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by KraggyKor
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12-04-2013, 05:38 PM00039My first sub 15 minute run was with a Scholar, Blackmage, and Summoner and me tanking :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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12-04-2013, 05:43 PMShneibel
doesnt the forum just fill with all those SR thread like...last week ?
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12-04-2013, 05:49 PMBlueMage
Oh hey! Another thread saying "I hate when people force me to play their way; because everyone should be forced to play my way!"
Its DF. You take the risk or getting whatever. If you want a slow run, or a speed run, or a smooth jazz run, and you get worked up and upset over people not running the way you want, then form a premade. Or, here's a CRAZY idea, when you enter the instance, talk things over with your party, and if y'all can't come to an agreement, then leave.
If you're not willing to compromise, if the majority of your group wants to speed run, or slow run, or whatever, then you shouldn't be in DF. -
12-04-2013, 06:29 PMyamface
lol
SR's don't just save you 3-5 minutes. SR's are what, ~15 min? The average df group takes almost 25 to finish. By the time you get 2 wp done, I'll have 3 + 1/3 the next one. There is a difference. Anyway not really sure why people complain about "forcing" their ways etc. The problem with OP is that he doesn't want to appear as rude in groups, so he thinks he is obligated to aggro the crap dps pulls from another room. The short answer: don't even touch those mobs. Let them 3 shot the dps. Your party isn't clearly respecting you, so you have no obligation to do so either. Don't feel sorry that you killed a dps, make them feel sorry so they don't push you around like the way they are now. -
12-04-2013, 06:56 PMSeezur_UndiesYeah, that would require people to actually reply when you ask. you think i haven't tried asking? As for doing it my way? If respecting others in the party is "my way" then yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
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12-04-2013, 07:11 PMXNihili
As healer, I won't stress myself if the party can't sustain a speedrun.
I won't cast Holy right away, my first duty is to keep people alive.
Even the most stupid people will realize they can't handle speedrun after a few party wipe. -
12-04-2013, 07:46 PMExphryl
I love speed Runs. I do them both on my White Mage and my Scholar (So healer is relatively irrelevant).
The only gripe I have about running DF (WP) Speed Runs is:
A) Tanks assuming they will speed run (When they are fair fair too undergeared for it)
B) Tanks assuming they will speed run with a not-optimal group (Two monks? Sure why not!)
C) Tanks that fail to avoid the ground mechanics of the various mobs (It can be tough enough healing you through 7-8 mobs, taking that much extra damage is a surefire way to wipe the group)
D) Basically I blame tanks for any failed speed run. -
12-04-2013, 08:09 PMRi_ri
I like when the tank pulls more than average. Over damage is a good practice, I learned a lot about managing cooldowns and how to heal thanks to speedruns.
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12-04-2013, 09:00 PMjoshdavis27195% of the time it is the tanks fault, we have to stay on top of our game or the SR will fail. DF is perfect to train with, it teaches you better thret management,(all you need to know is flash/circle/riot combo) I pull 2 groups in DF to get myself used to handling more then 1 groupQuote:
Originally Posted by Exphryl
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12-04-2013, 11:08 PMLord_ZlatanCheck my lodestone. I am not ubergeared at all. I can do a semi-speed run (18 mins so far is my best time), but it all comes down to one thing: communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exphryl
When the instance loads, if I don't see a BLM and BRD, no SR.
If I don't see a High end healer, no speed run.
If I see people completely outwear me, ill say "hey guys, ill push it as fast as I can. let me know if you want me to speed up or slow down".. I know DF can be a pain in the ass with certain people, but as a Tank it is incumbent on you to communicate what you can and cannot do and what your expectations for a run are. I love when there are no AoEs in the group and you get a "wtf why so slow" comment.
Just my 2 cents. -
12-04-2013, 11:29 PMSpeeral
[QUOTE=Lord_Zlatan;1626278]/snipQUOTE]
omg common sense. . . I am with your line of thinking 100%. I have an RL Friend who always tries to dictate everything but never gives us/our group a chance to settle into our runs. He doesn't ever look at our group make up or communicate anything. So we let him die until he learned that he needs to be aware of his group and talk to them.
You are right though in DF you have to gauge your run by the group your given in DF, not be unilateral. -
12-04-2013, 11:42 PMKyteStonesI'd have to say that if you think this is the only requirement then it's false.. Just did this run 3 times last night to cap out a friends myth tomes. 1st party I ran as a Monk with a Dragoon, Warrior, and a White Mage. Dragoon was in level 55 gear and we finished the dungeon in 17 minutes with no wipes. Second Run I ran as my Black Mage,with a first time Monk, White Mage and Warrior. 20 minutes no wipes. Some mistakes but it's no big deal. Last run I went as my Bard with another Dragoon, White Mage and again a Warrior and everyone knew the dungeon, we said hi, and did the dungeon in 15 minutes. Even when I was my Bard, I popped only the TP Song for the tank so he could keep going at the pace he was going so he could spam over power and not stop moving. I don't have a WHM at 50 yet, but out FC healer can do it with no issues with mana sooo I can't agree with this point of view that you have but that's my opinion :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies
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12-04-2013, 11:50 PMLurkiosSame thing that gives you the right to assume the tank will bring armor and the bard a bow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies
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12-05-2013, 12:05 AMflamds1Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
Nah Im the tank and do df to not do speedruns. If the group decides they do, that's what shouting in revenants is for. If they still want to continue with it, I just leave. A 20-25 minute run is longer than a 10-12 minute speed run but shorter than a 45 minute df wait. It's their choice. -
12-05-2013, 12:11 AMflamds1Had this a while back logged in to wp with two dps a mnk and drg who appeared to be family memembers. We got to the beetles on the stair and they started complaining about why it was so slow. Probably because the dps was crap and it took us 5 or 6 minutes to kill the birds and tonberries n the first two groups. If you're still killing the same mobs 3 or 4 minutes later, it's not a speed run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
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12-05-2013, 12:22 AMXNihiliNope, the tank bring his armor and the bard his bow, I bring my staff/book and armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurkios
If they want me to use food and ether, they'd better use food and healing potion too ... -
12-05-2013, 12:28 AMMaxxsen
Bad bad Tanks huh? Saying this as a Warrior... Most of the time its the healer or a range dps pulling a second grp while im out of TP or argueing to run by a grp of mobs or that it is too slow. Most of the time its the same whm who cant keep me alive or just die by a fat Tomberry...
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12-05-2013, 12:45 AMAegisIf the tank is relic/DL or above and you are also adequately geared you should be able to hold pulls of 8 mobs or so more or less indefinitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies
When tanking WP through DF I judge the gear/abilities of the DDs (my wife is SCH so I don't need to worry about her) and pull accordingly. If there's a relic+1 BLM in the party I will be pulling as many as the Scholar can heal me for because it's the most efficient way to run the dungeon. I would slow down if someone in the party asked me to, but after tanking at least a hundred runs, no-one ever has.
If you feel too stressed at the tank's pulling, ask him to slow down. If he doesn't, leave. It's not a long queue time for a healer once you get past the 15 minute penalty. Refusing to heal or not participating at all can be reported as griefing as you are preventing others from doing the run.