Scholar in Amdapor Keep

I'm in need of some advice. I've been 50 for a few weeks now and I'm just running WP/Amdapor for tomstones/gears. We pretty much breeze through everything including the final boss but whenever we get to Demon Wall there's always problems.

I tried placing fairy at first but then I quickly realized she will get hit that way so I just have her next to me. However while she's next to me her healing potential is really "heal whoever's closest to me". Due to this her healing potential isn't as great and I really can't afford to manually control her when I'm busy doing jumping jacks between the purple blob.

Pretty much I go into Cleric and help with DPS until phase 3 with the bees in which I go into full healing mode but it seems like more often than not, the DPS keep dying because I'm busy focusing my healing on the tank. If I try to focus healing on a DPS, the tank ends up dying.


I'm not sure what to do here. Does anyone have any tips? Or is it really because the DPS can't stay out of the fire? I told one of the DPS's who I constantly saw in the purple blob to "mimic my movements" and it seems like once he was able to do so, he stopped standing in the fire and we finally managed to barely clear the wall and then sped through the rest of the dungeon. Also most people were in DL gear with healer & tank using IFrit weapons and Black Mage & Bard using Garuda weapons. So what's the issue here? Is it really just DPS at fault or is there something I can do to be a better healer?

Well, if i'm running ak (which is quite rarely lately because WP is much better - and faster in any aspects) i place my fairy in the middle lane just moving her after the repel. The middle lane is much better for her because she only gets a movement slow ( outer lanes apply a cast time increase), just healing her once in a while with the pet heal ability or an adloq (depending on my mood tbh) xD.

And yes, mostly the difference is if anyone gets hit (multiple times) on lane-dancing - the only thing you can do to help them is to remove the debuffs, if they get hit and try to heal up. Cast an Adloq on the tank before healing them with Physick and well if it wont hope blame it on the hunter... erm i mean mark yourself so they can see you better.

Another possibility would be to focus the adds, one after another you got about 4 (maybe 5?) repels till you cant avoid standing in the flooded area at the front of the room.

Mostly DW is a test of reaction (dodging the areas).

You can place the Fairy in the middle column, she'll get hit for negligible damage and get the "Weight" debuff which really isn't a big deal. The sides are what give the Slow debuff AFAIK so obviously you want to keep it out of there. I usually just keep the fairy placed in the middle column and DPS until the second repel, only switching off Cleric Stance to Succor during the knockback. If the second repel is coming up and it doesn't look like you'll kill the wall before bees spawn, top your group off and prioritize healing either until the bees are dead (if you're focusing bees) or until the wall is dead (if you're ignoring bees). The only damage your group should be taking is from random Murder Holes which are handled easily by Embrace.

From what you're saying it sounds like you're approaching the fight correctly. Try it with Selene placed in the middle column, if your group is still taking a lot of damage some of your groupmates might be having positioning issues.

if you have to heal at all before bees spawn, your party gets hit too much. I just throw in a succor before every repel and stay full dps till bees spawn where I heal till one bee drops and go dps again

Place the fairy in the middle. With the Wall targeted I usually place her right on top of the middle dot on the target circle. I also use Selene, because unless your DPS don't know how to move you will never have to actually worry about healing and her speed buffs can make things faster.

I start the fight by hitting spell speed up to get my dots up as fast as possible.

Selene(or Eos if you are really worried about healing) will get hit in the middle but they will never get slowed which is the big issue. You shouldn't even have to heal the fairy at all during the fight (at least not with anything but Succor).

After two rounds of the floor AoEs run to where you have your fairy placed. Cast Succor and throw down a Sacred Soil. The SS is totally not needed but makes ya look like you are doing something important. ^^ Sometimes the fairy won't even get hit by repel if you have her placed where I said. If she does just place her right back on that dot in the middle of the target circle after the wall is done moving.

Because you are an awesome SCH, you have been in ClericStance for the whole battle except when casting Succors for repels. And thus when/if the bees spawn you can bane your Dots to them if the tank pulls them to the center. (This often doesn't happen in pug groups.) The bees are the only time that you might actually have to throw out a heal other than the Succors for repel and that is again only if your DPS/Tank don't know how to move. Also, you may have to Leeches your fairy if she gets caught in a paralyze AoE. Do not bother moving her out of an AoE ring as it is simply less hassle and easier to just cure the paralyze.

Your only real mistake seems to be that you thought having her move with you was a better idea than placing her. With her moving with you sometimes she won't make it out of the floor AoEs on time and get slowed which is bad plus as you said she won't heal if targets are too far away. ^^ Just switch that around and you will be Auto-Driving AK in no time.

oh I had no idea about the difference of debuffs in each column! I thought they all had the same ones xD
Thanks for the tips everyone I'll try just placing her in the middle next time!

I wanted to reply to this then I read Weltende's post. Do everything they said lol. Pretty much the exact post I wanted to make. All around great advice.

This is what I do for most DF Demon Walls:

Have Eos on Steady, Place her in middle (or if you're able enough to run and Place at the same time, have her dodge as well). Just before 2nd Repel (everyone + Eos is in middle), pop Rouse + Fey Illumination + Whispering Dawn and as soon as Repel finishes casting, Place her at one of the edges (usually right-side edge since most parties hang to the left).

Gnats will focus on Eos for at least until 3rd repel, and their AoE should not interfere with dodging Demon Wall. Sustain and Eye for an Eye help keep her alive but ideally your DPS should be good enough to kill wall before or slightly after 3rd repel when using this method. You might need to toss heals on Eos, but heals on everyone else should be greatly lessened.

Other than that, Stoneskin (if you have it) + Succor before engaging, Succor before and/or after each Repel. More than that shouldn't be necessary unless people are getting hit by purple lines.

Important note: make sure to tell your tanks to ignore the adds too if doing this method, otherwise the whole strat is wasted. No Flash, no Overpower.

When the bees spawn i turn off cleric's stance and throw out as many succors as i can and throw out lustrates when someone lags behind on health or i'm close to a new set of aetherflows. Maybe not the most efficient way to do it but keeps everyone's health up high.

Or if all of your party are all geared with relics, the wall will go down before the bees even spawn. That's how fast my fc and I clear demon wall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GinTama

if you have to heal at all before bees spawn, your party gets hit too much.

---

Healing pre-bees is not optional; the team will be taking unavoidable damage from Demon Wall's random single-target attacks.

Perhaps the writer meant "if you have to lose Cleric Stance at all" -- which I'd be more inclined to agree with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bridgeburner

Healing pre-bees is not optional; the team will be taking unavoidable damage from Demon Wall's random single-target attacks.

Perhaps the writer meant "if you have to lose Cleric Stance at all" -- which I'd be more inclined to agree with.

---

He's right if YOU need to heal pre bees theres a problem

Eos or Selene can solo heal while you nuke

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whippet

He's right if YOUR PARTY IS FULL DL + RELIC (SO THE UNAVOIDABLE ATACK DOESN'T HIT THEM SO MUCH) AND YOU need to heal pre bees theres a problem

Eos or Selene can solo heal while you nuke

---

I fixed it for you.

Since I DF AK most of the time, I go lazy mode during the wall (there is always one guy...). Stoneskin, Succor, Plop Eos in the center right in front of the wall. Dodge middle, dodge sides, another Succor. Dodge middle, dodge sides, another Succor. Repel, dodge middle, dodge sides, Succor. Leeches everyone who can't dodge, Sacred Soil after repel during bees. This will win every time if you kill bees, 80% of the time if you don't.

If you want to do it right and have an actually decent group, placing either fairy and stance dancing is the way to do it, as mentioned before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

I fixed it for you.

---

Eos can solo heal a pt at demon wall even if full GC gear dont be dumb

Whippet is correct, you all are making one of the easiest bosses in the game entirely too complex.

1) Don't bother placing your fairy, there's no reason to.
2) Cast a succor before the fight starts.
3) Enter cleric stance.
4) DoT damage rotations with Ruin II / Energy Drain off-GCD cycles.
5) Rely on your team to dodge the things that can be dodged.
6) Melee LB (or magic LB) whenever the bar is full.

If:

A) Your team doesn't look like it will beat the Wall by the bee spawn (or isn't close)

1) Exit Cleric Stance.
2) Drop a Sacred Soil in the middle.
3) Swiftcast a Succor.
4) Adlo your tank.
5) Physicks

B) Your team will beat it prior to bee spawn.

1) Congrats, you are a boss you just owned the Demon Wall.

You should absolutely place your fairy for several reasons.
1. When you move, your fairy doesn't cure, thus reducing curing output (unless you manual embrace, then see #2).
2. When you move, your fairy follows BEHIND you, not with you. If you are too slow in moving from the side to the middle, fairy is stopping to cure, or you just don't move far enough into the center, your fairy just got hit with slow.
3. Placing Eos in the center only gets hit with negligible damage (sustain at worst, but nothing a Succor won't fix) and weight, but she's placed so not moving.
4. If off to the sides too much when repelled, fairies do not float off the side of the map. She will fall in this instance unlike The Navel and no longer able to cure your party. Good job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delvish

You should absolutely place your fairy for several reasons.
1. When you move, your fairy doesn't cure, thus reducing curing output (unless you manual embrace, then see #2).
2. When you move, your fairy follows BEHIND you, not with you. If you are too slow in moving from the side to the middle, fairy is stopping to cure, or you just don't move far enough into the center, your fairy just got hit with slow.
3. Placing Eos in the center only gets hit with negligible damage (sustain at worst, but nothing a Succor won't fix) and weight, but she's placed so not moving.
4. If off to the sides too much when repelled, fairies do not float off the side of the map. She will fall in this instance unlike The Navel and no longer able to cure your party. Good job.

---

Well done sir. You've correctly nailed every irrelevant detail as it pertains to a healer vs. Demon Wall.

Even if you gear blows and you are forced to face the bees, just manually cast Embrace (it's loads better that way in any raid situation). Your fairy isn't going to fall off unless you fall behind the dodge rotations, and you'll probably die or get hit by the goo if you keep that up.

Making Eos tank bees is fun tho :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whippet

He's right if YOU need to heal pre bees theres a problem

Eos or Selene can solo heal while you nuke

---

What equipement do you need for Eos to be able to solo heal ?
Mine didn't manage and I had to cast a bunch but I have only 2 DL (body and legs).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XNihili

What equipement do you need for Eos to be able to solo heal ?
Mine didn't manage and I had to cast a bunch but I have only 2 DL (body and legs).

---

to be completely honest with you I have never had to pre heal demon wall before bee's spawn, the fairy is more than fast enough to cover any damage even without being placed ( which I do not do in that fight as it doesn't make since). with the gear you mentioned you should be fine going straight DPS and letting Eos or Selene heal the party, no one should take any heavy dmg ( they should be dodging the floor AOE) Murder holes will do minimal dmg as long as party is dodging, your fairy can heal easily solo even in base job gear!

but any advice here can be used just depends on your style of play, I my self do not place in DW and go straight DPS, if I see the wall wont fall before or close to bee spawn I go full heal and rotate succor on party and psy spam on tank with lus to cover anyone's big mistakes!

and lastly above all else your best friend should you have a bad party in DW is leeches (if you don't remove de-buffs it will make healing that much harder)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

1) Don't bother placing your fairy, there's no reason to.

---

You should totally place your fairy. With her following you, even if you dodge she may get hit by the slow from the side AoEs and that is annoying. Placing her takes hardly any time and makes the fight a lot easier cause you can let her auto pilot.

Eos in middle for whole fight, place her again after repels.

Rouse > Fey Illumination and let her blow everything at bee spawn.

nuke nuke nuke.

i just dps the wall and use succor when there is damage, everyone must avoid the purple lines on floor, also swiftcast helps to use succor while you move

tldr;

Set the fairy in the center dps till you dodges 2 times drop clerics stance, put aquo on everybody and drop a bubble. This will result in a 70% chance the people won´t get knockbacked (depending on your and their gear) Get back to clerics stance. Rince repeat. In a halfgeared group that will increase the damageuptime enough to ignore the adds if they spawn at all. Replace the fairy after the repells right benath the boss, thus being still in healranges after the knockback.

doesnt matter if fairy goes into 'heal whoevers closest', let fairy mop up while you keep bees target up
fairys heals arnt necessary, theyre bees not bahamut

Demon wall itself does virtually no damage. Dropping a Succor after every ground-column cycle will keep everyone topped off and should still give you plenty of time to Clerics Stance, DoT the wall up, and swap back for another Succor.

Eventually you get to the point where you can just place your faerie in the middle and she can solo-heal it herself. Admittedly... eventually you get to the point where your Faerie can solo-heal all of Amdapor Keep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyserion

Demon wall itself does virtually no damage. Dropping a Succor after every ground-column cycle will keep everyone topped off and should still give you plenty of time to Clerics Stance, DoT the wall up, and swap back for another Succor.

Eventually you get to the point where you can just place your faerie in the middle and she can solo-heal it herself. Admittedly... eventually you get to the point where your Faerie can solo-heal all of Amdapor Keep.

---

The fairy actually can do this if ppl avoid ´most of the aoes but it´s more damage if you prevent the knockbacks for some classes (blackmage summoner and DD-stanced tanks. No need on chargers like monk and dragoon or movers like bard) And you have to drop clerics stance to make your shield strong enough w/o critting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyserion

Demon wall itself does virtually no damage. Dropping a Succor after every ground-column cycle will keep everyone topped off and should still give you plenty of time to Clerics Stance, DoT the wall up, and swap back for another Succor.

Eventually you get to the point where you can just place your faerie in the middle and she can solo-heal it herself. Admittedly... eventually you get to the point where your Faerie can solo-heal all of Amdapor Keep.

---

^pretty much this, ill admit its more dependent on your party but if you are geared enough you can straight DPS all of AK, I honestly never exit cleric stance, never need to your fairy can solo heal while you help blow thru trash and boss fights! only time you really gotta heal is when someone makes a mistake!

Assuming you re an almost full dl scholar :


- Use Aetherflow on the Dulahan or w/e its called before the wall and dont use a single one
- Adloquium your tank - place Selene in the middle
- Cleric Stance up.
- Put virus on the boss
- Use the skill / spell speed depending of your party
- Immediately place Shadow Flare
- Bio 2 - Miasma - Bio - Thunder - Aero
- Nuke the wall with ruin + ruin 2 + energy drain while dots are up / refresh 1 or 2 dots (you just have the time)
- Hit the other spell / skill speed button
- Cast ShadowFlare again while 1st Repel is beein casted (by of course takin in account that the wall gonna advance)
- Put your dots again and hit up Aetherflow (hope for you that you used your 3 stacks on energy drain until now)
- Nuke again

- Enjoy.


You shouldn't need to even heal once if the dps is good, fairy will do that for you, simply use rouse

If however you need to, drop cleric and swiftcast succor, that should be good enough.


2nd case : you forgot to activate aetherflow on the dulahan before the wall, no worries, just make sure to use it straight at the pull and you ll have it again while you ll have to avoid the "filthy" colums that will be on the side before the 2nd repel, and rock that Energy Drain (like try to use 3 ruin 2 + energy drain before beein knockbacked again)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinaloa

The fairy actually can do this if ppl avoid ´most of the aoes but it´s more damage if you prevent the knockbacks for some classes (blackmage summoner and DD-stanced tanks. No need on chargers like monk and dragoon or movers like bard) And you have to drop clerics stance to make your shield strong enough w/o critting.

---

Assuming your group has enough damage, you should only get hit by two repels. Black Mages and SMNs have Swiftcast which they can use to continue dealing damage while they return to position, and Paladins at least can prevent knockbacks. But if you're at the point where you need to squeeze out extra damage in the form of preventing repel, it suggests you have larger problems. Generally speaking, having a full rotation of Cleric Stanced' DoTs on Demon Wall will be more dps than one attack from the other three party members from a (possibly) prevented Repel.

Tbh if your group is good you ll never see the 2nd repel. And you don't need overgear by that, full dl with relic is just enough !

Honesty, if you're getting to bees just have the Tank hold them in the top left and flash every now and again whilst focussing on the wall (sidestepping a tiny bit to avoid the pits and properly eat repel).
A Flash and a Circle of Scorn every now and again is quite sufficient to hold their attention since healing is light on that fight and nobody else should be AoEing except if you want a BLM or SMN to limit break.
If there's another melee damage dealer have them stay to the right and dodge for Pits/Repel; everyone else stays well back.

The Bee AoE is annoying (paralyse) more than dangerous (damage) - so let the tank eat it every time and not dodge.
The only danger comes from the Tank being paralysed whenever repel is about to go off, so as long as you use Leeches/Esuna when it goes off (or the Tank has pots!) you're all good.

The above makes DF PUGs a breeze, even when someone brainfarts and gets knocked off.
2-manning/3-manning the wall from 50% is quite doable with a decent Tank + SCH due to DoT Damage if you just plain ignore the Bees.

Note: You can Stoneskin the Tank right before Repel and they'll not actually get repelled since the damage doesn't break even a non-WHM's Stoneskin (as a PLD, I do this myself on Duty Finder squads and save Tempered Will for after Bees so that I can stay left to eat a repel and not potentially expose a melee DD to the Bee AoEs).

I make sure to alternate spamming succor , and any DPS I can between each void goo stuff... Cleric Stance Energy drain is nice just to sometimes see a bigger Energy Drain than the Relic+1 smn heheh... Both Selene and Eos can solo heal this with use of rouse just make sure that you save rouse for when it's needed. You don't want to waste the buff duration on portions of the fight when everyone is near full HP anyways.

If you think your DPS won't be able to take down the wall before bees use Eos and full combo with her ( Rouse/Illumination> WHispering Dawn) This will take all the healing pressure off of you. Throw down a SS where the AoE of the bees will be. EfaE the tank and pay attention to when the fairy is hit by slow or wait and try to Leech her as soon as you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyserion

Assuming your group has enough damage, you should only get hit by two repels..-
But if you're at the point where you need to squeeze out extra damage in the form of preventing repel, it suggests you have larger problems. ...

---

You got 2-3 CD´s between your Dot rotations. If you are not using them to prevent the knockback on classes not able to charge or shoot on the run you are wasting damage. Not much, but granting them 2 GCD´s each is still a gain. We do not need to squeeze the extradamage. But we consider a second knockback a complete failure at the boss in our group and getting 6 voids only as good. No LB´s ofc those are for masstrash if a caster is present.