To those who complain about end game

To begin with a am not trying to troll I am just tired of hearing people complain about something rediculous.

First off I understand there are casual and hardcore players but to the later you seem to forget one simple thing. The game was completley rebuilt and is essentially a brand new game being released, and has been out for roughly 3 months. I cannot name a single other game that has had the massive amount of end game content you speak of them having on launch. The primary example I always see is WoW, which had maybe 4-5 endgame dungeons and upon launch 1 endgame "Raid". Not only that but WoW was an even worse grind as they did not have a duty finder. I can go threw others SWOTOR, Rifts, Aion, etc. to name a few.

So I guess my point is. Why is it that you believe that a game when first coming out is supposed to have an immense amount of end game content?

And to those that state the game has been out for years. Technically no it has not FFXIV ARR is not FFXIV they are two complete and seperate games with alot of similarities. No different then saying that EQ2 is the same game as EQ1.

basically they are just annoyed because they rushed to the end of the game and realised 'shit theres nothing for me to do anymore, what do I do now ?'

several thought processes later....

'Lets complain on the website about how boring endgame is and not help anyone'

I just don't get why all these people who are so bored with endgame and the lack of content dont get off their collective ass and instead of moaning actually help others to reach their privileged position.

Oh wait

its called being extremely selfish and not caring about the community unless you yourself can get something out of it.

edit: some typos

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Originally Posted by Sasagawa

basically they are just annoyed because they rushed to the end of the game and realised 'shit theres nothing for me to do anymore, what do I do now ?'

several thought processes later....

'Lets complain on the website about how boring endgame is and not help anyone'

I just don't get why all these people who are so bored with endgame and the lack of content dont get off their collective ass and instead of moaning actually help others to reach there privileged position.

Oh wait

its called being extremely selfish and not caring about the community unless you yourself can get something out of it.

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What "privileged position"? Coil Access?

I think everyone and their mom has it now. And how do you know they don't help anyway. Do they have to report to you every time they do a Titan for someone?

Also, you sound salty.

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Originally Posted by Wolfegang

So I guess my point is. Why is it that you believe that a game when first coming out is supposed to have an immense amount of end game content?

And to those that state the game has been out for years. Technically no it has not FFXIV ARR is not FFXIV they are two complete and seperate games with alot of similarities. No different then saying that EQ2 is the same game as EQ1.

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One reason its the games on main developer said that the game doesn't begin until endgame you would imagine that there would be more to do, especially with a large chunk of the population already at cap, and how relatively easy it is to reach cap. Also, the MMO market today is fairly competitive with a lot more hardcore and competitive players who are able to burn through things fairly quickly.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

What "privileged position"? Coil Access?

I think everyone and their mom has it now. And how do you know they don't help anyway. Do they have to report to you every time they do a Titan for someone?

Also, you sound salty.

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I don't have it yet, because I pace myself. I'm level 47 DRG, once I get 50 I am getting Darklight gear and Relic and then waiting for CT to release, do Crystal Tower then Coil.

I love doing content in order on a personal level.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I don't have it yet, because I pace myself. I'm level 47 DRG, once I get 50 I am getting Darklight gear and Relic and then waiting for CT to release, do Crystal Tower then Coil.

I love doing content in order on a personal level.

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...good for you?

Also do you realize that "getting relic" and "getting coil access" are pretty much the same thing?

Well everquest 2 has more end game than we could kept up at its launch and We were raiding everyday, at the moment even the player play abotu 1-2 hours a day run out of things to do, coil 1-4 and 5 will take 2 hours if you are lucky and you left with no challenge, yes we can run dungeons but we know we can beat them so there are no challenge, we need something fun to do.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

...good for you?

Also do you realize that "getting relic" and "getting coil access" are pretty much the same thing?

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I am just saying I don't skip content and say there's no endgame content. That's all I am saying. Just because one has the best gear doesn't make the rest of the endgame nonexistent.

Getting Relic is only on the "weapon" side of things. Gear wise I am waiting for CT to come out. And also, I don't plan on stopping on DRG, I have other classes I want to level and get gear for ( MNK/ARC/SMN etc). So I have plenty to do and at which the way I play ( No FATES) I am getting to endgame at a healthy pace. Other players can do what they want, but I don't see content dwindling for me.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I love doing content in order on a personal level.

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THIS is the problem with endgame and why people are complaining... The release of CT being what 4months now after the game's release? CT's before COIL, we won't be seeing new content for another 4.5-5 months that's any significant difficulty. Helping people through isn't a problem, but grinding the same farm content over and over becomes quite mind-numbing. I'm really hoping for things to pan out come 2.2, but it's quite honestly going to be difficult to hold out that long. I love everything about this game (except the currently poor implementation of progression tiers), but I can't convince myself to grind the same content that long if it's easier than what we currently have now. Extreme Mode primals I fear won't hold me over for THAT long. :(

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Originally Posted by ByakkoSeven

I love everything about this game (except the currently poor implementation of progression tiers)(

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The only thing I agree with is that they took out CT, which left a gap. That however doesn't change how I play. I know CT is going to fill that gap, so I am not going to progress further in my Main Job until CT gets implemented. The way I play doesn't change ( doing everything in order). I have other things in the game to keep me occupied until December rolls out.

Again I do agree with you that they made a huge mistake in leaving the content out. but we can't turn back time and we are getting it in December ( with other things). So Personally I am happy at where I am at in the game heading into 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

So I have plenty to do and at which the way I play ( No FATES) I am getting to endgame at a healthy pace. Other players can do what they want, but I don't see content dwindling for me.

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You know, I am strongly of the opinion that if FATE were removed or severly nerfed in XP terms, this game would benefit HUGELY from the change.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I am just saying I don't skip content and say there's no endgame content.

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That is great you pace yourself, but you cannot argue there is content or things to do because you do it slowly.... You doing the story over 4 months vs us doing it in 1 week doesn't mean you got more content out of it, just means you were either bad, really slow, or stopped doing it.

A lot of us were 1.0, so we had no levelling to do, which I'm thankful for, levelling in this game is dreadfully crap. The story was good but I completed it in my first week, that is with reading and watching everything. I have DL for everything, Relic is "lol" and can be done in 1 day, pacing myself out for Relic quest doesnt magically add content, how would that even work? "Oh i just finished Chimera but I best stop doing content and stop playing so i can pace this out!!" ... makes no sense...

I have nothing to do in this game, I am just helping friends which often don't need my help as game is ever so easy, and so the game is forcing me to stop doing certain content due to weekly limits.

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Originally Posted by viion

That is great you pace yourself, but you cannot argue there is content or things to do because you do it slowly....

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I was one of those people who worked hard in 1.0. I made a new character because I knew this would happen. I knew endgame wouldn't be there much like 1.0 endgame wasn't there (at all really lol). I am pacing myself because like any new MMO, there is a lack of endgame content. So I tell myself what's the point in getting there quickly? There isn't much of a point, so I pace myself have fun while doing it and wait for future patches to make this game a better place to play.

You are right I can't argue endgame content because 1 I haven't gotten there yet ( just saying endgame based on my FC) and 2 I know end game isn't there in most MMOs. MMO's need time to flourish the reason why most MMOs fail is because of that fact, they launch with not enough content and don't realize that it takes time for content to be developed so people can have have and not have to worry about lack of content.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You know, I am strongly of the opinion that if FATE were removed or severly nerfed in XP terms, this game would benefit HUGELY from the change.

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I agree with this, at least with nerfing FATEs anyways lol.

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Originally Posted by Sasagawa

basically they are just annoyed because they rushed to the end of the game and realised 'shit theres nothing for me to do anymore, what do I do now ?'

several thought processes later....

'Lets complain on the website about how boring endgame is and not help anyone'

I just don't get why all these people who are so bored with endgame and the lack of content dont get off their collective ass and instead of moaning actually help others to reach there privileged position.

Oh wait

its called being extremely selfish and not caring about the community unless you yourself can get something out of it.

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Three months in now, and the white knights are still using the "rushed to endgame" justification? Keep moving those goalposts.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You know, I am strongly of the opinion that if FATE were removed or severly nerfed in XP terms, this game would benefit HUGELY from the change.

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Yes, i would gather the huge benefit of no one playing because the only viable source of exp is now gone. and all that is left is long, slow tedious grinding simply because someone suggested a very bad idea.

FATES are optional, if you do not want to do them, then don't do them. but they don't need a nerf at all or removed, they simply need to adjust dungeon and levee exp to be on par with FATES so people have other good options for exp gain

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Originally Posted by Starlord

snip (silly character limit!!)

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Those that have time to play and get to the end have a right to complain because the end is what keeps you playing, not the journey getting there as that is a 1 time deal, the end is meant to be something that keeps you playing, gives you a reason and gives you joy to -repeat-, XIV has non of this.

People argue "It's just the start!", look at GW2, over a year and still no solid end game, WoW can also be considered an example as most people just return on expansions but at least WoW's end game is progressively lengthy. That is where the fault is, Coil is a joke, its small, its easy, it takes some people 1 hour to complete (Even turn 5), and most average people 2 hrs without Turn 5 (T5 is pretty useless for most people). 2 hours of 4 end game dungeons is nothing to be proud of, its the problem. You cant pace yourself in end game, you enter a dungeon, and unless you're really bad, you will finish it in 10-15 minutes.

Getting to the end game in XIV is not hard, the story only took me a week thats playing several hours a night, and if the game can't support several hours a night of playing, then why do SE want me to pay monthly to only play a few hours a week?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's the general lack of content/features that I find most frustrating. I tolerate this game. I want to love the game, I really do.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want things at launch when other recent MMO games of this caliber have launched with vanity features, PvP, an item lvl requirement via duty finder, a LFG option, a better market system, etc all at launch.

Like I said, that's just for me. If we had half of these already, I would feel much more satisfied with the game at present.

Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by viion

1. ...in end game, you enter a dungeon, and unless you're really bad, you will finish it in 10-15 minutes.
2. Getting to the end game in XIV is not hard, the story only took me a week thats playing several hours a night, and if the game can't support several hours a night of playing, then why do SE want me to pay monthly to only play a few hours a week?

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1. That hurts, I honestly feel that if I was bad, it'd only be slightly yet I manage times of about 30-40 minutes in WP. ;_;
2. That's why I love if there was a system where you bought time, say, 3 months, then that time would only tick down when you were actually playing, with maybe an overhead very minor monthly fee to pay for the server your data sits on.

As for the topic, I'm at endgame and yeah, it's boring.
I haven't even stepped into Coil, but there hasn't really been much otherwise.
People say that it's because this game is new, that there isn't much at endgame, well, it's not new. Sure, the engine's redone, everything is shinier and with a new coat of paint, but all of the work they did on 1.0 didn't just go into a supposed black-hole. I didn't play 1.0, so I'm not sure of what dungeons were in that game but were there honestly that many added in FFXIV's reiteration? I honestly doubt it.

As much as I love this game, it's not that difficult to make dungeons, at all. Hell, when PvP comes out we're only getting ONE arena, doesn't that kind of just make you feel like they're just a little bit incapable?
I spent months playing SWTOR, when I got into PvP was just after they had added the fourth PvP map, and I was laughing to myself so hard because it was just a slight change from the mechanics of a map that was already there, so it just goes to show that they didn't even work that hard on it, yet how easy it could have been just to take those same mechanics and change up the maps so we'd have variety.

SWTOR/Rift had much better launches than this.

RIFT's launch content was 3,000,000x better than what FFXIV has to offer and SWTOR, while not as good as Rift was at launch, it was still better than FFXIV.

lol I started the game in September and im at level 34, and nowhere near this endgame content people speak of. I dont play everyday, honestly I wouldnt want to play every single day, because I would end up sounding like some people on here, complaining about how theres nothing to do. Plus Im also playing Assassin's Creed 4. So instead of complaining, do something else until new content comes out lol..or...cancel your subscription entirely.

Sadly, where the game currently is right now there is no remedy for it. The only thing we can hope for is that over time they see the errors and try to fix them in patched later. Getting to cap is not fun. In xi it took longer to level. You couldn't just run around and kill shit while not in a party and half the time miss the exp because there was too many people.

The thing that makes me sad the most is that people have expressed interest in and se has already said they don't want. Like exp parties, a real claiming system, NMs with real rewards, an AH that doesn't let you mindlessly undercut everyone because you can see the price, and real in world content because let's be honest the only reason to leave town is to gather for crafting.

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Originally Posted by Wolfegang

So I guess my point is. Why is it that you believe that a game when first coming out is supposed to have an immense amount of end game content?

And to those that state the game has been out for years. Technically no it has not FFXIV ARR is not FFXIV they are two complete and seperate games with alot of similarities. No different then saying that EQ2 is the same game as EQ1.

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I've never seen anyone say that we want "an immense amount of end game content" in fact...the only one I've seen say that is Yoshida himself LOL

He said in interviews and on the beta forums that there would be so much hardcore/end game content, we wouldn't know which to do first or how to handle all of it! Well...I'm not seeing it o.o

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Originally Posted by Teirafon

lol I started the game in September and im at level 34, and nowhere near this endgame content people speak of. I dont play everyday, honestly I wouldnt want to play every single day, because I would end up sounding like some people on here, complaining about how theres nothing to do. Plus Im also playing Assassin's Creed 4. So instead of complaining, do something else until new content comes out lol..or...cancel your subscription entirely.

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How about not. There are many players from 1.0 who played since 2010 and we took over 2 years or so to get everything to 50. Yoshida said we could have plenty of end game content and stuff to do but there is very little. Also it isn't a good idea to compare your play style/life to that of others on here...it seems a bit condescending. My boyfriend plays only a few hours a night (If that, mostly on the weekends) and has all 50s, coil gear, relic+1 etc. It is all about managing your time and how much you can accomplish in a set period of time. There are plenty of people who play very little and have accomplished quite a lot.

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Originally Posted by Wolfegang

So I guess my point is. Why is it that you believe that a game when first coming out is supposed to have an immense amount of end game content?

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When the guy who made it states "the game doesn't really start until you hit max level, think of everything up until then as teaching you the game", you kind of open the door for criticism. When you play through ARR, everything is such a filler like flow that it's clearly designed to teach you as you go.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
"For ARR, the level cap is going to be level 50 to start the game. We don't want players to have to spend a lot of time getting to level 50. The reason behind this is that we believe the game up to level 50 is basically your tutorial. The real game begins from level 50. We have the real challenges begin there. We have a lot of end content that we've already prepared to be ready at the launch of the game."

I don't really understand why the "rushed to end game" was even an argument 1 week after 2.0 release...

This game is a special snowflake in the case that many 1.0 players not only had 1 capped class, but many had all / most of them capped. So the game has been out for 2-3 years and just because I am at end game I "rushed to it" after 2-3 years of playing this game?

Sorry but there really is very little to do aside from low priority things that many people choose not to bother with / don't enjoy (such as leveling crafts, or chocobo, achievments etc... whatever it may be).

I have all 9 relics. I did not "rush" to get them.
I am also at T5 coil. I did not "rush" to get there or push for world firsts..

I simply played the game at a moderate pace, and I, like many others, have nothing else to do other then logging on for coil and capping myth.

Yes everyone plays at a different pace, however keep in mind that a large number of people were already capped before you even made a character.
Are we at an advantage? No, because you could have quite easily played 1.0 and be in the same position.
Did we "rush" to complete content? Most of us did not...

Now we are sitting 3 months after 2.0 release, waiting for content that is a progression tier lower then what we are currently upto, with no content to actually progress toward in the near future. By the time 2.1 is released, many of us will have multiple i90 classes (if this isn't the case already), and our only use for i80 progression gear is to gear up classes we never play... Doesn't this seem rather pointless? Just because you haven't played as much as us, doesn't mean you can tell us to "slow down" or not have issues with having nothing to do when we pay to play a game..

If CT was truly a simple "difficulty" issue because of duty finder - they really should have released it as is, and simply "adjust" the difficulty for 2.1... However I believe that CT was just simply not finished..

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Originally Posted by Altena

My thoughts exactly.

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/thread <3

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Originally Posted by Mistoltin

1. That hurts, I honestly feel that if I was bad, it'd only be slightly yet I manage times of about 30-40 minutes in WP. ;_;

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Then you must not be of the belief that speed runs are a measure of your skills as a player rather than a tedious exercise in avoiding doing anything so you can shorten your play time. Ironically people who complain that there is nothing to do at end-game are the very same ones that are ACTIVELY trying to reduce the amount of time they are even playing...

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Yes, i would gather the huge benefit of no one playing because the only viable source of exp is now gone. and all that is left is long, slow tedious grinding simply because someone suggested a very bad idea.

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Um...well...no. Since dungeons got an XP buff they have been very viable for XP, and to be honest FATE grinding is a souless, boring and ultimately negative mode of activity since it bears no resemblance to anything I would call playing. In a dungeon things take a little longer, people have to work together and sometimes even communicate. Personally I think that Dungeons should be the best XP generator in the game. FATE grinds encourage exactly zero interaction and no teamwork.

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Originally Posted by Teirafon

lol I started the game in September and im at level 34, and nowhere near this endgame content people speak of. I dont play everyday, honestly I wouldnt want to play every single day, because I would end up sounding like some people on here, complaining about how theres nothing to do. Plus Im also playing Assassin's Creed 4. So instead of complaining, do something else until new content comes out lol..or...cancel your subscription entirely.

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Honestly, telling people to "not play everyday" is freaking silly. MMORPG are, by nature, immersive experience, people WILL play them everyday and have right to do so. It's the reason this genre exist, a persist world to immerse yourself with. Developers SHOULD foresee this, it's not even their first mmorpg so they should know how much time ppl spend on the game.

Not to mention, the developers seem to want you to subscribe for 3 months at once, offering rewards.

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Originally Posted by viion

Blah blah f'ing blah.

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Dude? How current is hour signature? By the looks of it, you have plenty to do lmmfao.

The problem is there is no other content either, because everyone has been at level 50 for 2.5 of those three months.

In other games when they get released there may only be a handful of endgame things to do, sure, but that's because that's exactly what it is - "endgame" for an actual game that took place before that. To use the OP's example, in WoW it took most people a couple months to hit the cap and start running those five dungeons. In FFXIV it takes maybe two weeks to get to 50 and start running its few endgame dungeons over and over again.

The faster you get there, the faster you get get bored with it and want more.

Also, the people saying it's the fault of people who rushed couldn't be more wrong. Hardly anyone rushed through the game; the game is designed to rush you through itself.

The people who think there isn't a lack of content just haven't gotten to the point where they've run out of content. I was the same way until I got every relic for every job. Suddenly, my motivation to play went out the window. What else could I do? Coil? That requires seven other specific, skilled people to be on at the same time, which means once or twice a week. Level all my crafts? That's what I'm doing now, but it's extremely boring. I have to join random Titan shout PUGs or help people with stuff to break up the monotony; otherwise, it feels like a job, and that's something I vowed not to feel again when I stopped playing FFXI.

So, to the people saying that everyone complaining just rushed to endgame: You only say they rushed because they were faster than you. Once you get to the end like them, you're going to feel the same way they do, and I just hope you're smart enough to delete all your "white-knighting" posts before you write out your inevitable complaint.

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Originally Posted by SynMaris

One reason its the games on main developer said that the game doesn't begin until endgame you would imagine that there would be more to do, especially with a large chunk of the population already at cap, and how relatively easy it is to reach cap. Also, the MMO market today is fairly competitive with a lot more hardcore and competitive players who are able to burn through things fairly quickly.

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That is a misconception. The games are designed that way nowadays, easier and quicker to finish. It has nothing to do with people being more competitive.

Game is 3 months old

people still using "they rushed" nonsense? REALLY?

I love how the 1% that have everything done complain about there being nothing to do.

I'm with OP.
I do my 300 Myth a week, Try titan a few time, Waiting for FC to do it as an event again.
Level DOH, DOL, and 3rd class.

I agree... essentially..., but comparing this game to other games to further your point or any point is not the way to go. That said, yes, I think most people who are complaining now rushed to end-game and shouldn't have, but frankly, there are other issues with the game that are making my interest dwindle. I don't know if the game can mend those areas for me, to be honest, nor do I really know what those issues are... In fact, why I am here? On this forum--typing this. I don't know, I don't know.

Rift had the perfect amount of content at launch. 8 classes per archetype to mess around with, every dungeon had an expert mode with NEW bosses in it, there were raid rifts and Greenscale's Blight. On top of that, they immediately released the next raid, River of Souls, before most people were even through Infiltrator Johlen. Then they follow it up with Hammerknell which was way harder just a few months later.

I'd be playing Rift right now but they totally screwed the pooch by making the talent system so complicated that the game essentially became macro heaven, and I hate nothing more in MMOs than setting and using macros. Also, they sold their soul and now sell raid ready gear for cash in their money shop. On top of that, I've been playing a healer since EQ1 and I didn't care for their healing paradigm. Few regular toolbox heals, many many long cooldown emergency heals, and extreme spike tank damage over any other type of damage by far.

To get to FF14, I quit a while back because I have nothing to do. I got my relic +1, then proceeded to sit on my butt while I waited for my myth to catch up with the out of launch order raid bosses I was to expect in Coil. And I guess I made a good call, because still no Sylx and it's almost December. Sure, there's plenty to do. I could level crafting, or just buy worthless crafting gear off someone else who already leveled crafting. I could level alt jobs, but... I'm a white mage, I have no desire to play a dragoon. I want to do something that's going to make my white mage stronger, because I think I made it clear I was a white mage. I don't know when it became an acceptable defense to go level something entirely different that you have no desire to play, maybe back in Wotlk with that year long ICC content drought? It's always been a pretty shady defense to me.

But yeah, we all have different goals and concepts of fun, I guess that's the mentality the amusement park MMO has bred. Maybe your concept of fun is killing desert piestes (has to be desert piestes, I'm very particular about my fun) for three hours and eleven minutes every day. I doubt it. I would go out on a limb and say a good majority of your content pioneering players find it fun to advance their characters, so if you deny them this, they are going to quit and move to greener pastures.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

What "privileged position"? Coil Access?

I think everyone and their mom has it now. And how do you know they don't help anyway. Do they have to report to you every time they do a Titan for someone?

Also, you sound salty.

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to be fair I was a little bit salty last night. I spent a good few hours trying to gather people to help the community with Titan HM as there are many people who still struggle getting through this content. most replies I got were encouraging saying thank you for trying to do this however a lot of replies said idiotic things like.

"why don't you join a good FC and do it with them" - I have and I do this was not for me but for everyone else

"Everybody already has it so what are you shouting for? " - ha if everybody already had it I wouldn't see all these shouts selling titan (I have nothing wrong with people selling titan but many people simply cant afford it!)

Perhaps the most enlightened comment was

"Carrying people through content wont teach them anything" - no perhaps not but neither will countless party fails and hours of waiting for a party.

Simply put I want more people to use their well geared (coil) jobs and experience to help each other, unfortunately people generally don't.