DISCLAIMER: This thread is not to defend SE or whatever-color-of-knight-you-may-call.
Kinda sad that I have to put such a disclaimer. What has forum become nowdays?
Though I do not suffer lag, I *still* think it's *very* stupid to put EU servers in Canada.
It takes only entry-level of networking knowledge to understand that this idea is totally absurd. Give a 30mins lecture on networking to grandma, and even she can sneer on SE making such a nonsensical decision.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY, I don't think it is a decision that is made *by choice*, to assume otherwise is equally absurd as not choosing nearer location if such a choice presents. There may be other constrains that we outsiders simply do not aware of, that somehow makes Canada seems to be the best (or probably even, the *only*) option at that time.
Anyway, I digressed.
There are many threads on lag, I did not read every single one of them, and only skimp through most...simply because I have no concern about this issue, I do not "perceive" it is affecting me. But after seeing so many talk about not being able to dodge the red-color AoE, with GIFs and youtube to prove, I can't help but make this thread to share my observation:
See, I am sure majority of you already notice of this:
1) Monster starts casting a bomb to you, game draws red area.
2) You moved out of the red area.
3) Red area faded.
4) You move back in.
5) Graphically, monster's bomb dropped on you, but you take no damage.
So, many of you already know that, as long as you dodged the red area, the skill animation doesn't really matter at all.
You already know that, the game doesn't based on skill animation to decide if you are hit.
BUT, here's the key-point: you assume the red area is the one which decides if skill hit. You assume that, as long as you are out of the red area WHEN IT FADES, then you are safe.
But no, it's actually the cast bar. Maybe that's why I don't "perceive" lag issue.
I always fight with focus-target set on boss, so that their cast bar is visible at all time. You will notice that:
1) The red area only appears after the casting begins. By the time the red area is entirely visible, the cast bar may already progressed 0.5 second.
2) The red area always faded AFTER the cast bar finished. I never see red area fades at the same time with cast bar.
3) When the cast bar fully charged, if I am out of the red area, I am safe, otherwise I am not. It doesn't matter where I am when the red area fades.
TL;DR:
The red aoe is only an indicator of dimension, it carries no weight on whether you are hit or not. The one that decides if you are hit, is the cast bar.
Anyway, I am merely sharing my observation. This observation may be right, or wrong, I did not further spend time to test it against all doubts.
Given the toxicity of this forum and for a "problem" which I myself have totally no qualm with, spending precious gaming time to make a thread on is already a losing barter, so I am not going to further spend time for any discussion/argument/whatever.
This topic is not about server-lag, ISP-lag, graphic-lag or whatever-lag, bring those elsewhere.
One note though: the next time you think it's server lag, do a shout "Anyone ISN'T lagging right now?", to be sure before complaining, otherwise it doesn't really helps identifying the problem. Without nailing the root of problem, you will never have a real solution. Sometimes, there's simply no single easy solution for some problem, the earlier you realize it, the better for your emotional well-being, as well as for the people around you.
Back to the topic:
Why don't SE make cast-bar overlay for monsters which we are not targeting? Many MMO has it, probably do-able with SE game engine.
Why don't SE make red-area appear and disappear at the same time with cast bar? There may be technical complexities & difficulties.
Why don't SE sync-up Skill Animation + cast bar + red-area? There may be technical complexities & difficulties.
It's stupid not to do so, right? To this I can surely say, YES, it is stupid, but then again the same thing: there may be technical complexities & difficulties.
You see, it's easy to be an armchair critic. It's easy to judge others. Sometimes, we think we know everything and are quick to reprimand others, in-game or out. But not only this doesn't solve anything, it only spread negativity around. Don't be that jerk.
If this thread help just one person to dodge better and thus improving his/her gaming experience (before SE sets everything right), my time is well-spent. At least I didn't go about throwing insults, doom-saying and generally trying to ruin others entertainment.
Have a nice day.
Observation on Dodge-Lag
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11-17-2013, 12:27 PMWhoIsTheGuestObservation on Dodge-Lag
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11-17-2013, 12:32 PMGarnatian
Well as it stands Square doesn't have much money to throw about, so I don't blame them as I believe they are the ones fronting the money for the game.
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11-17-2013, 01:12 PMNestamaAnd unfortunately, even the cast bar lags: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg33BjzwLWw (BRD is out of AoE before cast bar is 100%)Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTheGuest
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11-17-2013, 01:30 PMBillie21
Your observations are not wrong, they are correct, but there is evidence that even based on cast bar, there still is a problem.
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11-17-2013, 03:11 PMWildsprite
while you might be right about the cast bar there is still a latancy issue, for example in Titan(story mode) many of us were getting knocked off even though we were well out of the way within his cast bar for it. so this is definitely an issue and SE needs to fix it before players decide the content isn't fun enough to outweigh the fact that they purposely put a latancy and did not make any of the content for that latancy. E.I. watching several people clearly dodge an attack but still get hit is proof enough of this
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11-17-2013, 03:18 PMAlcyon_Densetsu
Dear OP, Why won't you use one of the existing threads? It helps keeping things neat (making sure SE reads us, including you, by not being all over the place; and also not flooding the forum for other players who wish to talk about other subjects).
Here's a "table of contents" I've come up with to organise these discussions. I encourage you to re-post your observation in these threads as more people interested in the issue will read them, and they are regularly bumped up.
Quote:
Thread: Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.
(1,601 replies • 133,806 views) → Early feedback
Thread: .3 Second Positional Update Delay (Requesting Dev Response)
(487 replies • 30,795 views) → More specific feedback
Thread: Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.
(95 replies • 6,889 views) → Technical considerations
Thread: Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X: Will the netcode issue be honestly addressed?
(80 replies • 5,657 views) → Communication considerations
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11-17-2013, 03:21 PMRi_ri
I don't think there's difficulty in syncing things up. Our own skills are synced to the animation, the enemy's should be too. For example, my Fire have to travel until the target to deal damage... if they move out of range during it, it misses.
It looks kinda silly getting hit by the WP's first boss spit move when I'm so far from it. It seems like my fate is sealed as soon as the bar gets to 80% - everything after that is disregarded. -
11-17-2013, 03:25 PMAlcyon_DensetsuSame here. As Sinth explained in his thread, when we see a bar at 80% or so (depending on your latency), in fact on the server things have already happened. It's basically because this game operates on a "server live-state" instead of a "client live-state" like an overwhelming majority (and actually, all the good) MMOG do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ri_ri
Quoting him: "Basically speaking, everything you see on your screen is a lie. None of it is real-time on your screen (except for maybe turning your camera angle, which is not negotiated by the server)." -
11-17-2013, 03:30 PMWhoIsTheGuestThat's clear enough, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
I am on BCoB turn 2 too, must be hard for the bard to time interrupt if this is the case.
Luckily the bard on our team seldom have problem with it.
With all these activities on the forum, developers must be aware of it, but as several other threads point-out, too bad it's not going to be something trivial to change.
Well, I guess at the meanwhile, all the rest of us will just have to be considerate and let those who are suffering to vent off their frustration on forum. -
11-17-2013, 03:48 PMAlcyon_Densetsu
I don't think it will take that long for the forums to calm down.
Just wait for paid time to expire and most of those who just can't play properly will have left, probably even before that. -
11-17-2013, 04:45 PMSunarieWhile calming down is a good thing, I hate to see people leave (as I would/will hate to leave) due to the issue alone. I enjoy the game a lot for the large majority of the time.. but everytime I get hit because I wasn't out by the time the cast bar got to 85%-90% it frustrates me.. and that frustration adds up. I'll likely be one of those making an exit as soon as the frustration outweighs the fun. You're right though, the forums will calm down a lot when we all eventually leave :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu
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11-17-2013, 04:55 PMWildspriteI disagree, more threads on the same grip topic will likely get it more noticed and maybe they will change their stance on "it's working as intended" because if that is the case they risk losing customersQuote:
Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu
it's not like this is only effecting a few players. a lot of people are griping about this. and what is the solution? zoom out your camera.....that doesn't !@#$ing work either SE. all that does is help you see more of the battlefield. which yes can be helpful but it doesnt fix the fact that you purposely added a latancy that should never have been there in the first place and didnt adjust any of the content for it. -
11-17-2013, 05:25 PMKyata
I suggest they move all their servers to the North Pole.
That way everyone gets equally bad latency, we get multicultural servers again (like FFXI), and they get the extra benefit of natural cooling for their servers. Everybody wins.
(Joking...kinda) -
11-17-2013, 05:36 PMMarxam
If the servers are in Montreal then it was probably there when they acquired Eidos and just used it.
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11-17-2013, 05:59 PMAlcyon_DensetsuCan you stop writing my thoughts? (lol) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunarie
So yeah, clearly we feel the same way about this. However are you ready to pay for months, even a year, until they revamp the whole architecture?
I mean, even if they did acknowledge the issue and publicly committed to shift the millions… I don't know. If they said that, I'd probably keep an interest for the game, and come back to check on patches, but probably not more than a month each time, just to experience the content not impacted by the bad netcode. Things like housing, etc. That would give them 2, maybe three months (should 2.3 come before the fix) from me until it's fixed.
Also, I'm very interested in Star Citizen and though I previously thought I'd play it and FF simultaneously eventually (SC's due for 2015 but I really planned to stay in ARR for its whole lifespan), things look different now —ain't that an understatement lol. It looks like I'll just come back to check on WoW's next expansion (I think that probably won't interest me more than a few months), and check on TOR's space combat in January (likewise, a few months at best I think), maybe with a tad of Tera here and Secret World there for I've yet to try these two. That's how 2014 looks like for me. I thought it would be all FF, but… well, you know.
So, basically, no matter what SE says or not, I've already come to terms with the fact that I won't play much of ARR, if at all, during the next year (for the record, Sinth's explanation just put words on it actually, kinda confirming the bad feeling I had about all this). And I DON'T LIKE IT! Most of my gaming friends are/were here… But I just can't help it. Sadly. :(
Well, I agree with you in practice (flooding brings attention), I may have been known to react like that in the past. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wildsprite
But it's just that I don't want to spoil the experience for other players who are blind to the issue, or not impacted/bothered by it. I think they have a right to their fun, and a somewhat "neat" forum is part of it. I think by now SE has to be aware of our concerns too, so I don't think resorting to annoy them would get us any closer to an answer. Short story, other players who are OK with this are not my enemy (more power to them if they can cope with it and actually enjoy themselves); likewise SE isn't my enemy (rather I really wish they let us help). But I won't stop you if flooding is your weapon of choice :p just probably won't contribute much to that.
Regardless of the datacenter being there already or being built during ARR's remaking, I think they indeed chose Montreal so that Eidos could work on it. I still think it's a very poor choice because it's so far off most of NA, let alone America as a whole (and I know that Brazil, for instance, is full of FF fans and MMO gamers so… yeah, that wasn't showing much consideration for them). Let's not even talk about Europe. I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that they would choose the network architecture that is the most sensitive to latency, to the extent that it's easily game-breaking, yet consider only two datacenter in the whole freaking world. How can a huge company such as SE fail so hard at something that seems so obvious for technical-savvy people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam