Somewhat Constant HQ Crafts Tips?

After hitting 50 as a WAR, i decided that i wanted to work on blacksmithing so i can get through needing the weapon and melds for a relic weapon without needing someone else to do it for me. I just hit 35 and i feel i might have a small snag in this dream as everything i craft seems to wants to fight me tooth and nail not to become HQ items.

Lately, i have been getting cross class skills and while it has made things better im still getting more NQ items than anything else. i've tried using food,upgraded my armor/accessories and tools but still nothing. So i have to ask, is there something i can do to help improve my odds on this? Anything that would help tip the scales in my favor will be appreciated.

Getting Carpentry to 50 is the biggest hurdle to HQing. After that it's easy peasy (relatively).

Byregot's Blessing is a godsend when it comes to HQing (see Jeykama's post). Other skills you should consider getting are Careful Synthesis II from 50 Weaver, Hasty Touch and Steady Hand II from 37 Chef, Comfort Zone from 50 Alchemist (not required but it saves CP costs for higher synths.) Ingenuity and/or Ingenuity II are great for Progress, and I've heard Innovation from Goldsmith is pretty great (working on getting this one right now)

Forget all of that level 50 cross class skill stuff. Byregot's? Careful Synthesis 2? Comfort Zone? Forget those. You're still leveling your highest crafting class, those skills do not apply for you yet.

The best advice I can give you is to bring all of your crafting/gathering classes up together, at least Goldsmithing, Weaving, Leatherworker, Carpenter. Armorer goes hand-in-hand with Blacksmithing, so include that as well. Basically, you are going to want stuff that they all make.

Make your own crafting gear, and make sure to HQ it. That's where the Goldsmithing, Weaving, and Leatherworker come in. Carpenter .. that's more along the lines of Armorer - to make specific materials for you when you need them.

Get all of the crafting skills to 15 to start, this gives you an excellent foundation of cross-class skills for your future endeavors. Culinary to 37 for Steady Hand 2 is STRONGLY recommended, but is not strictly speaking, required. Otherwise, just take each of the crafts I've mentioned that you are going to want up in five or ten level increments, using the Crafting Log, and then using Triple Leves when the Crafting Log does not suffice. By maintaining your set of crafting gear, you will have the stats necessary to get the recipes to HQ most of the time. When you hit a level that has a new piece of crafting gear from any of those four crafts, be sure to make it HQ, and to start to use it. You should be able to HQ 8/9 or 9/9 of all of your 25+ Triple Leve hand ins

Inner Quiet + Steady Hands + Hasty Touch is your friend.

With those skills you can HQ more often than not even on same level recipes.

So get CUL to 15. Then I'd recommend ALC for Tricks of the Trade which is the best way to restore CP.

Once you get Great Strides and the 32 touch ability, it becomes even easier.

I personally find myself not using Tricks of the trade much because you waste a Good condition. Sometimes on 80 dura i'll use it but for the most part I won't waste the boost in quality for only 20 cp.

It's not a waste really. A good condition gives you 150% quality which 3 stacks of Inner Quiet already gives you that on base control. 20 CP is huge for what sacrificing a Good condition do. Unless you know you won't need CP because you have an abundance of it or you have stack of Manipulation at maximum durability, it's usually a good idea to use Tricks of the Trade. Remember, the best quality skill, Byregot's Blessing only costs 24 CP so 20 CP is definitely not a waste. It could've let you mend one more time, or steady hands one more time or Byregot to increase crazy quality, or even using Standard Synthesis for 150% progress. You should get Culinary to 37 for Steady Hands II though.

Wasn't expecting to get much or any replies to this post but im glad i was wrong :D. Anyway, i have been using that Inner Quite + Steady Hands + Hasty Touch combo but i find myself running out of CP while the quality of the item is still pretty low.

Every chance i get i throw out a Tricks of the Trade and if i get really desperate i use Rumination then reapply Inner Quiet and it never seems like i have enough CP to get 100% quality unless i get lucky with a excellent item condition. Am i doing something wrong,overlooking something small or has my luck with the RNG just been poor?

Blacksmith seems like the optimal class to level first. It will afford you tools for all the other classes or most of them anyway but it's hands down the hardest class to level as a first class.

Pretty much every tool needs parts from at least 3 or 4 classes. Lumber, leather, cloth, Glue and Plates being high on the list and the Blacksmith can't make any of those. That means you will need to buy them. Granted everyone is throwing the NQ versions away. You can get stacks of each on the marketboard for 2K gil or less. It just means you won't be getting as many HQ triple leve turn in's on this class. It's really about what you have more of at the moment. Time, gil or leve points.

With your amount of CP, you should be able to do 2 Master's Mend/Manipulation which should give you 6-7 Hasty Touch tries. Try keeping your CP enough for a Steady Hands + Great Strides + Standard Touch (86 CP) as that is more reliable finish than keep spamming Hasty Touch. I would suggest going Inner Quiet -> Steady Hands -> 2x Hasty Touch -> Manipulation -> 1x Hasty Touch -> 1x Basic Touch -> Steady Hands -> 1x Standard Touch -> Great Strides -> Standard Touch -> 1x Synthesis (meld 1CP to your gear as this requires 264 CP) or remove Basic Touch if you need 2 Synthesis. Level Culinary to 37 when you can for Hasty Touch II (3 more CP than I but 10% more success making Basic Touch 100%).

Byregot's and Innovation are fantastic for HQing stuff, but that doesn't help you level your first craft or two.

Steady Hand II from 37 CLN is very good. It really helps the Hasty Touch method feel a bit more reliable. Method doesn't truly shine until get you Byregot's, but it should be more than serviceable enough.

Inner Quiet boosts your control by 20% of the base value for every successful touch, so removing it and then reapplying it won't be all that useful. Hopefully you'd only want the CP from Rumination for synth actions, or to get some Durability for those actions. Basically want to finish with a Great Strides Touch action or two after the spam, so count your CP. Eventually you'll get an idea of when to stop the spam and go into Great Strides.



It kinda depends on what you're having issues with. Likely 40 Dura crafts, though, since if you could HQ those the 80 Dura ones are easier (which generally have the same quality bar as a 40 dura craft while having double the durability to play with) since you'd be able to start with HQ mats more frequently.

Biggest thing is Steady Hand II, though. With it you no longer have to worry about missing Basic Touch (thus missing out on boosting your control via Inner Quiet), and thus some non Hasty Touch methods that are reliable (if not guaranteed 100% yet with your stats/abilities) will open up.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Try keeping your CP enough for a Steady Hands + Great Strides + Standard Touch (86 CP) as that is more reliable finish than keep spamming Hasty Touch. I would suggest going Inner Quiet -> Steady Hands -> 2x Hasty Touch -> Manipulation -> 1x Hasty Touch -> 1x Basic Touch -> Steady Hands -> 1x Standard Touch -> Great Strides -> Standard Touch -> 1x Synthesis (meld 1CP to your gear as this requires 264 CP) or remove Basic Touch if you need 2 Synthesis. Level Culinary to 37 when you can for Hasty Touch II (3 more CP than I but 10% more success making Basic Touch 100%).

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Thanks, this was exactly what i was overlooking! i was just constantly using Hasty Touch and forgot all about Great Strides. hopefully i can start getting more HQ crafts with this knowledge.

At the end of a Hasty Touch spam recipe, you want to look at your last couple moves and see what you can do with great Strides and Advanced, Standard, or Basic Touches to make the last couple Touches more reliable and stronger.

This is how I usually do my HQing of linen spindles if it'll help you HQ materials in the future.
With 275 crafting points

From left to right

Inner Quiet - Steady hands (Steady hands II if you got it) - Waste not - hasty touch x4 - Manipulation - Steady hands - Great strides - Hasty touch x3 - Rumination - steady hands - Hasty touch

Depending if i get good conditions along the way, i can squeeze in some extra great strides and saves and etc.


Still RNG loves to mess up with me all the time, it's giving me headaches to just do one triple-hand in leve.

My own routine for 40 durability stuff ...

Inner Quiet, Steady Hand (2), Waste Not, 5 Hasty Touch, Manipulation, Steady Hand (w), Waste Not, 4 Hasty Touch, best Touch (Basic, Standard, Advanced, Great strides->Basic touch, etc.), Synth.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Get all of the crafting skills to 15 to start, this gives you an excellent foundation of cross-class skills for your future endeavors. Culinary to 37 for Steady Hand 2 is STRONGLY recommended, but is not strictly speaking, required. Otherwise, just take each of the crafts I've mentioned that you are going to want up in five or ten level increments, using the Crafting Log, and then using Triple Leves when the Crafting Log does not suffice. By maintaining your set of crafting gear, you will have the stats necessary to get the recipes to HQ most of the time. When you hit a level that has a new piece of crafting gear from any of those four crafts, be sure to make it HQ, and to start to use it. You should be able to HQ 8/9 or 9/9 of all of your 25+ Triple Leve hand ins

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Agreed. Another route to get crafting up easier is to level your DoL first, so you won't have hard time getting your mats if none selling on market board. (You can actually get your HQ mats easier, that's a given for HQ syn)

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Originally Posted by HiddenBoss

Wasn't expecting to get much or any replies to this post but im glad i was wrong :D. Anyway, i have been using that Inner Quite + Steady Hands + Hasty Touch combo but i find myself running out of CP while the quality of the item is still pretty low.

Every chance i get i throw out a Tricks of the Trade and if i get really desperate i use Rumination then reapply Inner Quiet and it never seems like i have enough CP to get 100% quality unless i get lucky with a excellent item condition. Am i doing something wrong,overlooking something small or has my luck with the RNG just been poor?

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Not worth it to reapply Inner Quite after consuming it for Byregot's or Rumination. At best, you'll get another 3 turns and the Control boost from starting over on Inner Quite stacks just won't build up enough.

Actually it's not as bad to use Inner Quiet after Byregot as it is to use after Rumination. The reason is, Byregot removes Inner Quiet stacks but does not remove the bonus Control like Rumination. It might be worth it to reapply Inner Quiet if you had an excellent condition turning up early and your best touch happen to be Byregot (3 stacks of Inner Quiet making it better than Advanced Touch at half the CP).

Hmm.

If you Inner Quiet, then a few Touches later Byregots, you say it does not remove the Control boosts. Does a subsequent Inner Quiet use the boosted Control as its base, or the original Control?

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

With your amount of CP, you should be able to do 2 Master's Mend/Manipulation

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Neither of which is as good as Waste Not.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Level Culinary to 37 when you can for Hasty Touch II (3 more CP than I but 10% more success making Basic Touch 100%).

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I know you meant to say Steady Hands II. I have some issue with Steady Hands. The tooltip for the ability Steady Hands I reads +20% chance for success, but the tooltip for the associated buff reads only +10% chance for success. I don't have culinary high enough to check Steady Hands II, but it possibly suffers from the same issue. My own limited testing supported +10% as the actual buff, but I only tracked 100 syntheses.

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

Neither of which is as good as Waste Not.
I know you meant to say Steady Hands II. I have some issue with Steady Hands. The tooltip for the ability Steady Hands I reads +20% chance for success, but the tooltip for the associated buff reads only +10% chance for success. I don't have culinary high enough to check Steady Hands II, but it possibly suffers from the same issue. My own limited testing supported +10% as the actual buff, but I only tracked 100 syntheses.

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Waste Not is good in situation where you're sure you won't need to do a Tricks of the Trade. Otherwise, it's not better than Manipulation. And yeah I meant Steady Hands II. The tool tip is correct as you'll never see a Standard Touch (80%) fail with Steady Hands (20%) or Basic Touch (70%) fail with Steady Hands II (30%). Testing with Hasty Touch is imperative at best as there is no way you can tell how 70% or 80% probability works but you can tell when 100% is indeed 100%.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Waste Not is good in situation where you're sure you won't need to do a Tricks of the Trade. Otherwise, it's not better than Manipulation. And yeah I meant Steady Hands II. The tool tip is correct as you'll never see a Standard Touch (80%) fail with Steady Hands (20%) or Basic Touch (70%) fail with Steady Hands II (30%). Testing with Hasty Touch is imperative at best as there is no way you can tell how 70% or 80% probability works but you can tell when 100% is indeed 100%.

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Not really, wastenot is critical in 40/40 rotations, and decent in 70/80.
Once people get blessing, they live on the 4x hasty or 4x basic (depending on cp).

Another pro tip of wastenot is 5 dura. 5 dura rounds up as 10 dura, thus you are afforded one trick or one "free" dura.

Here's a rotation:
wastenot->steady2 -> basic 4 -> you end up with a 5dura situation and a free steady2 at the end, which is very useful in many rotational calculations.

wastnot2 is crap though

Waste Not is *barely* more CP effective than Manipulation, which itself is *barely* more CP effective than Master's Mend.

Waste Not : 2 "free" moves, 56 CP : 28 CP per "free" move.
Manipulation : 3 "free" moves, 88 CP. 29.333 CP per "free" move.
Master's Mend : 3 "free" moves, 92 CP. 30.666 CP per "free" move.

Notice the pattern? Each move's effectiveness is 1.333 CP from the next in that little line, on a per turn basis.

Waste Not and Manipulation are both very valuable on the 40 Durability recipes. They have their advantages and disadvantages. A well-thought out plan would make use of both, and not just one or the other, as long as CP permit it.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Waste Not is *barely* more CP effective than Manipulation, which itself is *barely* more CP effective than Master's Mend.

Waste Not : 2 "free" moves, 56 CP : 28 CP per "free" move.
Manipulation : 3 "free" moves, 88 CP. 29.333 CP per "free" move.
Master's Mend : 3 "free" moves, 92 CP. 30.666 CP per "free" move.

Notice the pattern? Each move's effectiveness is 1.333 CP from the next in that little line, on a per turn basis.

Waste Not and Manipulation are both very valuable on the 40 Durability recipes. They have their advantages and disadvantages. A well-thought out plan would make use of both, and not just one or the other, as long as CP permit it.

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On NQ 40/40 you would use both wastenot and manipulations, but if you have any HQ in there, manipulations is not needed. In fact manipulations is the killer in 40/40 and only used if you can brute force it with CP.

If you have HQ mats in 40/40 you can do it without manipulations, since you need average of 5 touches to 100% a blessing. You can achieve that with waste not and basic touch (due to the cp savings).

For 100% failsafe 40/40 NQ you need both wastenot and manipulations in spades, but a need of 370cp is extremely hard for many people.

Again, they are not that far apart from one another in terms of CP per "free" turn.

You could just as easily state that you only need Manipulation to achieve those 5 Touches. Both are valuable, both are important, and neglecting one entirely in favor of the other is foolish.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Again, they are not that far apart from one another in terms of CP per "free" turn.

You could just as easily state that you only need Manipulation to achieve those 5 Touches. Both are valuable, both are important, and neglecting one entirely in favor of the other is foolish.

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CP CP CP and more CP. the more you save, the more hasty becomes basic, and the more basic becomes hasty in reverse.

To HQ, and this seems to be a harder then expected lesson, you have to get your numbers down before you start the HQ attempt.

You can say all you need is basic touch, and master mend if you can brute force CP it. That's not the point.

and finally wtf are you on, wastenot is 56cp, manipulation is 88cp. that's 32cp to use.

In a 40/40 synth, where 2 waste nots can do the job of wastenot+manuplation, you have just replaced 2 hasty rng with basic touch no rng. Consistent HQ is turning your rotation to as much basic touch as possible and less consistent is turning it into hasty.

Depending on your craftmenship, sometimes you can, sometimes you can't.

I'm well aware of the costs to use them - I did put them into a post you quoted in this thread, did I not?

I also, in that same post, went and did a little cost analysis, which you seemed to ignore. And on that basis, there is little difference between Waste Not, Manipulation, and even Master's Mend. They all have their pros and cons, and they are all useful. Waste Not is the cheapest, and the most cost effective. Manipulation is a bit more expensive, but only slightly less cost effective, due to the extra "free" turn.

That's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

On NQ 40/40 you would use both wastenot and manipulations, but if you have any HQ in there, manipulations is not needed. In fact manipulations is the killer in 40/40 and only used if you can brute force it with CP.


For 100% failsafe 40/40 NQ you need both wastenot and manipulations in spades, but a need of 370cp is extremely hard for many people.

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Waste Not runs marginally in the middle of the pack statistically for value per CP. What statistics doesn't account for is it allows you to play with halves.
Nothing else will essentially allow you to finish a synth at -5 durability.
This means statistically it is worth doing as is, but fundamental is absolutely worth doing once. In fact the very best 100% synth configuration that removes the RNG by eliminating hasty touch only uses Waste Not so the synth finishes at -5 and saves CP.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Waste Not is good in situation where you're sure you won't need to do a Tricks of the Trade. Otherwise, it's not better than Manipulation. And yeah I meant Steady Hands II. The tool tip is correct as you'll never see a Standard Touch (80%) fail with Steady Hands (20%) or Basic Touch (70%) fail with Steady Hands II (30%). Testing with Hasty Touch is imperative at best as there is no way you can tell how 70% or 80% probability works but you can tell when 100% is indeed 100%.

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Again Waste not is as efficient with 3 uses as it is with using all 4, so if you need to reapply SH or use ToT you still get benefit from WN because of the ability to finish the synth at -5

Waste not is good for the first round of the 40/40 syn.

Steady Hand II > Waste Not and you'll have 4 turns of 30% chance of success boost that cost only 5 dur each.