FATE system is broken

In beta FATEs lasted a while and were generally fun.

Now its 30-60 seconds of flashy lights and its over, or fates pop and no one does them. Obviously this was not intentional.

Open world xp gain was taken away as a viable option. Replaced with FATES, Hunting log, Quests, leves and dungeons.

Hunting log only goes 10% of the way, quests are long gone, leves are very low xp, and dungeons are ruined by a duty finder that takes 1-2hours to get in.

The fact that FATES are way overpopulated points to the failure of these other means of leveling.

In this regard the game vision has failed. Leveling as currently done cannot be what was originally visualized. Increasing dungeon XP will not fix it. Duty finder has too many issues to be used for xp gain. Its a necessary evil for other purposes and that's the only reason why people put up with it.

• Make duty finder operate more smoothly
• Add open world xp gain as a viable option
• Increase hunting log options!
• Make leves more rewarding
• Introduce new means of xp gain

Couldn't agree more... make dungeon leveling viable so that more people will queue for it.

And if you are on the PS3 fates are so full of "Can't handle the program" it is instafail!

I do FATES just fine on my ps3. you can do open world XP ain't going to say it will be a lot but you can still do it.

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Originally Posted by ocping

Couldn't agree more... make dungeon leveling viable so that more people will queue for it.

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Dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS. In fact dungeon leveling produces more EXP per hour than fates and, if you're lucky, gil per hour as well.. If you're extremely lucky you can get some seals as well but that is not advisable..

Honestly, I don't think of fates as being broken but that they are simply overwhelmed by people, Guildhest and Leves however could use a buff in exp/gil..

Increasing dungeon XP is not gunna fill the doody finder or get people in dungeons. People will still do FATE's since it's a faceroll to 50, and people most often take the easiest route to a given goal.

Now, I don't know for a fact that dungeons give more XP, but yesterday I hit Vigil as soon as I could get in (lvl 41). 4 hours, 3 Vigil runs and a few side quests (5 or 6) later I hit lvl 42. I think I was pulling around 75 to 100kxp per Vigil run

On a side note, I tend to avoid FATEs and as WHM I use the doody finder extensively. After 15-20 minutes, it's me and 2 DPS waiting on tank, which can take up to 6 hours.

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Originally Posted by Telsyr

In fact dungeon leveling produces more EXP per hour than fates

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Absolutely not. Not even close. FATEs are 2-3x as much XP as dungeons. 40 minutes in Dzemael will net you 80k (120k/hr). An hour in Northern Thanalan will net you 250-300k. Post-nerf Dark Devices chain alone is as much XP as a full dungeon run.

I think if FATEs weren't working as intended they'd be doing large scale overhauls to the system, such as giving mobs more HP or lowering the XP gained from them. I think they like where FATEs are and to give people incentive to do something else other than just FATEs they're bumping the XP in dungeons in 2.1 as well as giving daily incentives for joining a random dungeon.

Well 2.1 is adding a bonus to dungeon XP which should help. There's also the mechanic which will check for appropriate gear for those trying to enter HM Primals and such so that should aide in filling at least the 50 Dungeons. I still think FATEs require a Risk Vs Reward System due to how great the rewards are for how very little effort is required. 1.0 had mobs above level 50 so why can't SE just bring back those mobs and spawn them PASSIVELY with all the other FATE Mobs? It would tone down on the AoE "I Win" Spam and might teach that THM/BLM exactly what focus firing is so that when they level cap they aren't bringing that mentality into NORMAL WP/AK Runs.

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Originally Posted by Telsyr

Dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS. In fact dungeon leveling produces more EXP per hour than fates and, if you're lucky, gil per hour as well.. If you're extremely lucky you can get some seals as well but that is not advisable..

Honestly, I don't think of fates as being broken but that they are simply overwhelmed by people, Guildhest and Leves however could use a buff in exp/gil..

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I agree with this. I have played in FATES as a few different classes. Playing as a BRD, FATES are quick and easy exp. I can stand back and shoot. But it's a lot different for other melee classes. Especially if they don't have a ranged attack or AoE. Chasing after mobs is a royal pain in the arse. Not to mention the shear spam from DoM AoE makes it darn near impossible to see what I am doing.

In addition... Guildheists need a serious boost to rewards. They are awesome the first time through, but fall to the level of a levequest after that. Not much incentive to rerun. Levequests need a bump too. They are easy, if you are a good amount higher than the quest. Maybe make these +10 instead of just +4. Make them harder, and yield better rewards. I like doing them, but I find myself doing every single leve available four at a time just to get about 30k exp.

Dungeons, hopefully, after 2.1, will be much better. I enjoy dungeons. Lots of opportunities to get great gear. At higher levels, dungeons do yield a decent amount of XP. Especially if you have a decent EXP bonus running.:cool:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ate-comparison

Dungeons give more xp per hour than FATE? you're kidding me right?

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Originally Posted by Telsyr

Dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS. In fact dungeon leveling produces more EXP per hour than fates and, if you're lucky, gil per hour as well.. If you're extremely lucky you can get some seals as well but that is not advisable..

Honestly, I don't think of fates as being broken but that they are simply overwhelmed by people, Guildhest and Leves however could use a buff in exp/gil..

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I wish FATE mobs had more HP, so they didnt die in 3 seconds. they don't
Need to be harder, but they need to live long enough so that people can actually
"participate" in FATEs, rather than just "can I bio everything fast enough to get
gold?" :x

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Originally Posted by Telsyr

Dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS. In fact dungeon leveling produces more EXP per hour than fates and, if you're lucky, gil per hour as well.. If you're extremely lucky you can get some seals as well but that is not advisable..

Honestly, I don't think of fates as being broken but that they are simply overwhelmed by people, Guildhest and Leves however could use a buff in exp/gil..

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I wanted to respond the points here as they seem to ignore the larger problems with FATEs and dungeon leveling.

Saying "dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS" is the same as saying dungeon leveling is not viable. DPS are a large (largest?) portion of the game and the wait time for DF is typically 1+ hour. This is a major problem. Its great that dungeon leveling produces more XP per hour than fates but NOT if you're sitting around for most of that hour.

Second, fates being overwhelmed with people = broken. That is the primary reason, in fact, that they ARE broken. The game herds ppl into a few zones that have the best fates and the most people and instead of being spread out (places like Tranquil are empty) they all focus on one place. Some fates literally last 10-20 seconds and you are lucky to get a couple hits in and get silver. It is not a fun experience - nor is it a fair experience across all jobs.

What's worse is the game is training people to operate this way. I've actually been in a FATE with 1-2 others and people will come and then leave because there's not 20-30 people there to make the FATE last 10 seconds.

Fine, people like the broken FATE system as is. All I'm asking for is VIABLE options (real viable options, not pretend ones like waiting in a DF queue for 2 hours). I've given my suggestions above - there's no reason why there can't be other great ways to level producing the same xp rate as FATES for ppl to choose from.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Saying "dungeon leveling is viable, just not for DPS" is the same as saying dungeon leveling is not viable. DPS are a large (largest?) portion of the game and the wait time for DF is typically 1+ hour. This is a major problem.

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It really isn't. People know that if they play dps they will have a long queue for groups. Why? For every 1 tank or healer there are 10 dps in existence. That is only a problem if you believe dps should have a shorter queue time. Dungeon Finder and Dungeon XP are fine as they are.

Dungeon leveling is viable. You cannot have people on this very forum complaining that leveling to cap is too fast and then in their next breath say that viable experience gains from dungeons should be implemented. Dungeons, Leves, mob grinding are the slow ways to level up. They should be happy about that.

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Originally Posted by Ishmachiah

Dungeon leveling is viable.

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I often have 90-120 minutes per night to play. If I spend 60-90 of those minutes queued, when I finally get a spot in a dungeon, I haven't got enough time to actually play it. I either screw 3 other people, or I don't get to play in dungeons.

So, off to fates, where I learn to smash one button that's a cross-class aoe and get gold, so that I can actually play my class at 50. Can this really be the game's design?

Alternatives, of course, are to do leves; however, I can exhaust my allowances on these in a weekend of play, so during the week I can do maybe 10% of a level this way if lucky. At level 10 my thaumaturge has to kill 120 even-leveled mobs to level once; so open world XP is like fate XP, but 10x slower and less rewarding. I really like when I unlock my hunting log, but at level x+4 (where x is when the tier unlocked) I usually finish it, and then it's 6 levels of...well, not much to do.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

In beta FATEs lasted a while and were generally fun.

Now its 30-60 seconds of flashy lights and its over, or fates pop and no one does them. Obviously this was not intentional.

Open world xp gain was taken away as a viable option. Replaced with FATES, Hunting log, Quests, leves and dungeons.

Hunting log only goes 10% of the way, quests are long gone, leves are very low xp, and dungeons are ruined by a duty finder that takes 1-2hours to get in.

The fact that FATES are way overpopulated points to the failure of these other means of leveling.

In this regard the game vision has failed. Leveling as currently done cannot be what was originally visualized. Increasing dungeon XP will not fix it. Duty finder has too many issues to be used for xp gain. Its a necessary evil for other purposes and that's the only reason why people put up with it.

• Make duty finder operate more smoothly
• Add open world xp gain as a viable option
• Increase hunting log options!
• Make leves more rewarding
• Introduce new means of xp gain

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FATES were suppose to be a fun extra tool to leveling, helpping the GC, and things like that, not a viable way to level, but something to do as you do everything else. But the rewards for fates, ease of fates, make them the only way to do the level 50 grind.

How to fix the fate system?

First, you need to lower the rewards, or make the rewards harder to obtain. When you have 300 people in North Than doing fates and finishing them in under 50 seconds, AND getting gold rewards for max reward.. something is wrong. To turn them away from the zerg fest, they need to increase the amount of participation needed by you and your group to get rewards, so with these Zerg fests, obviously most people just do holy spam, blizzard 2 spam, shadow flare spam, flash spam. and get gold in 45 seconds, but they barely do any ACTUAL damage to the FATES themselves, but since it was over in 45 seconds they get gold, they need to make it so that the actual amount of damage/participation to the completion of the FATE gives you gold. Say you need to do 25% overall completion to get the gold, the way the ZERGS work now, your group sometimes at bests gets 3% lol, so your reward should be bronze. If they fix the way that system works on getting gold completion max rewards for almost no real participation (I mean come on, I know of some white mages who gold gold for casting one Aero and then standing there) then this would turn people away from making them the only way to level AND open up other methods.

Think about it, if you are running these FATES with like 90 to 100 other people and always getting bronze rewards something like 2k experience.. are you really going to keep doing that for hours? or are you going to get aggreviated at how SLOW it is and look into other forms of leveling, i.e., dungeons and leves. I mean why not get a group together and do leve sharing to level?

Honestly, I just don't think they need to increase dungeon experience, or leve experieince, I think they just need to fix, yes fix, the way rewards are giving in FATES.

P.S.

Also, why dungeon ques are so bad and people keep saying the DF is the problem, it's not DF it's the lack of people/tanks actually joining DF for these lower level dungeons. If a tank can que up and get in a dungeon within 60 seconds, that just tells you not enough tanks are queing, instead what the tanks are doing is flash spamming FATES. (You have no idea how many tanks I see who flash spammed to 50 then do WP and have no idea how to actually hold agro, most tanks can NOT hold the agro off me when I do once rotation... Miasma, Bio 2, Bio, Bane, Lightning, Shadow Flare.. I have hate now on all non-main targets., really? I've actually had a tank that I decided to really hold back on, and just did a Miasma, Bio, Bane, do NOTHING and I still got all the agro... just show's people don't know how their class works)

I like this, because it would also encourage fate groups to spread out from Northern Thanalan. But if fates are nerfed, more than just a buff to dungeon xp needs to happen, or the game is just going to loose frustrated players. I'm not sure if that's also buffing leves, or what, but right now things feel very very out of balance (and the numbers back that up).