I miss feeling SCARED

Anybody else here feel something is missing when it comes to making you scared ?

I mean.. yeah Aggro still happens in this game but a quick press of Sprint and you will outrun any Mob in the game.

Something is wrong when a level 1 job can jump on a chocobo and travel through a lvl 50 zone and survive the whole map.

Bare with me a second. Those who played FFXI back when it first came out .. remember getting your chocobo meant Walking through 3 different maps which took 30 min. real time to get to the Grand Dutchy of Jeuno. During you travel you were aggroed by every stinking mob that was 10 levels above you. Yeah.. FEAR man.
The damn mobs would never give up chase and you were only safe if someone helped you or you got to the zone in time.

What about... Dungeons from FFXI like Palborough Mines, Quicksand Caves, The Boyahda Tree , Upper Delkfutt's Tower, and my favorite Kuftal Tunnel.

Man being chased by dragons in Tunnels was fun ... :)

I mean yeah stupid aggro SUCKS and everyone who played FFXI remembers the not so good moments when you just could not escape aggro.
But FFXI punished you for DEATHS. took 1/4 of you EXP points into level away. FFXIV does not have a death penalty. Other than repairing gear and forgetting to set you home point. There is no SCARE in FFXIV. Something that i feel needs to be added back into the game.

FFXI took 10% of your experience to next level when you died, not 25%. It also capped at 2400 exp lost at death. Even then I was never scared to lose the exp (you get used to it being a THF in Dynamis). I was however terribly annoyed having to re-earn the exp on the jobs after you lose it, because it became a perpetual grind and not a fear. If you're looking for a scare moment just stick with the harder content, the open world isn't meant to be the place for that.

I agree totally~!

What happened to casting whenever too near to an element and getting aggro from it??

What happened to walking into a high level area surrounded by undead and if low on health, you would get swarmed by them?

What happened to some areas that needed sneak and others that needed invisibility?

What happened to pulling a mob in some areas and getting a link, hence therefore getting more than 1 mob coming at your group/you.

What happened to NMs or HNMs which was exciting as hell not to mention the item drops were always worth your time ?

I'm not saying that end game should be camping HNMs since that gets boring and repetitive but something in between would be great..

I can keep going but my point is, the way this is now, it is far far too easy. Hell, you are even told what mobs aggro and which don't and when you do get aggro, as someone mentioned here, hit sprint and run for 3 seconds and that's that...

For me those little but important touches are what made FFXI such a challenging and fun game.

There are still opportunities to be scared/worried in ARR. Did you ever get poked by the stalker tonberry when you first did Wandering Palace? Have you ever gotten too much hate/enmity on a single target boss where you're left at 1% HP just as the tank re-claims it?

Yes OP, it's kinda sad. Even the beast-men strongholds are totally inoffensive.

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

There are still opportunities to be scared/worried in ARR. Did you ever get poked by the stalker tonberry when you first did Wandering Palace? Have you ever gotten too much hate/enmity on a single target boss where you're left at 1% HP just as the tank re-claims it?

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Not really the same at all. None of those things that you mentioned are part of the everyday zones/areas.
As for the hate i normally don't attack mobs for the first few seconds to let tank get hold of it.

Even if i did get hate it's all about management of your spells/actions and nothing to do with the surrounding environment.

Loss of exp never made me frightened. I however loved the story quests in ffxi. The only game I ever had fear in was EQ. Before they started patching corpse summons and stuff like that... if you died in a bad spot and no one was high enough lvl to get your corpse then your gear would rot. So you basically had a limited amount of time to get your gear back or you lost everything including your money.

Every new zone I walked into, I would be very cautious about proceeding forward or engaging new mobs. I did not want to lose my stuff I worked so hard for.

Nothing like floating on a boat for the first time and chilling thinking wow this is cool. I am going to get get a drink because I am safe on the boat right? Yea come back to a giant cyclops head in my face followed by a fist and a quick stomping of my face. I had to wait for "the" boat my body was on because they had multiples. I have countless stories from that game because it made me feel like I was adventuring.

XI was a great game as well but, I can say I doubt I will ever encounter a game that made me feel the sense of fear, accomplishment and adventure that EQ provided.

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Originally Posted by aray0002

Something is wrong when a level 1 job can jump on a chocobo and travel through a lvl 50 zone and survive the whole map.

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Perhaps you're exaggerating a bit, if you aggro a caster or ranged you're getting one-shotted. I don't mind the general overworld being easy to navigate but the Beastman and Garlean strongholds should be more dangerous than they are, perhaps having "elite" mobs as you go further in.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

Nothing like floating on a boat for the first time and chilling thinking wow this is cool. I am going to get get a drink because I am safe on the boat right? Yea come back to a giant cyclops head in my face followed by a fist and a quick stomping of my face. I had to wait for "the" boat my body was on because they had multiples.

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Dying in East Commonlands and realising you were still bound in Kaladim. Cue long arsed boat journey and an age of worry before you retrieved your corpse and all its gear again. I miss having to /con mobs. Everything now seems to be hitting you in the face with information to the point you don't even have to think for yourself anymore. Hell, I could navigate around EQ zones with my eyes closed, you had to learn your way around because the map was so poor, same as FFXI. Learning your way through the jungle to get to Norg was a rite of passage for players.

You'll never feel that again from an MMO. The casual player doesn't want to ever feel overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Dying in East Commonlands and realising you were still bound in Kaladim. Cue long arsed boat journey and an age of worry before you retrieved your corpse and all its gear again. I miss having to /con mobs. Everything now seems to be hitting you in the face with information to the point you don't even have to think for yourself anymore. Hell, I could navigate around EQ zones with my eyes closed, you had to learn your way around because the map was so poor, same as FFXI. Learning your way through the jungle to get to Norg was a rite of passage for players.

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Exactly! You actually had to understand each mob and location and how they tied into each other. If you did not you could find your self charmed by a group of sirens for an hr ;)

I still get the shakes in battles, but not as bad as I did in XI of course. People already pointed out in this thread that the penalty of death in this game is not as bad as XI so it naturally will effect the game immersion. The most severe I had was during an arcanist quest with battle, my hands were shaking too much to accurately reach the keys on my keyboard lol it was sad.

@Symbiant, lol yep you remind me that I liked the pirates and mobs that appeared on boats in XI too. That was scary stuff, especially hearing the music and going o'shiiiiiiii___!

@OP The chocobo thing, I did not bother trying to use choco at level 1 unless it was the safe porter. I had a situation when was between level 20-30 I believe and I took the wrong gate out of Gridania, ended up deadending against a wall that led me into a pit inside of a cave getting eaten by spriggans on my chocobo. It was funny as hell.

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Originally Posted by NarwhalShadowsun

You'll never feel that again from an MMO. The casual player doesn't want to ever feel overwhelmed

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I don't know what it is about gamers these days. I consider myself an old school gamer. Ultima Online was my first MMO. There was plenty to be scared of in that game, and plenty to be excited about.

Open world PVP, your gear getting looted, I loved the crafting system and the skill system, and how the housing worked. I miss being able to own a boat and setting sail on the ocean. My best memory from UO was sailing around the world for the first time on the boat I purchased and visiting all the little islands.

That was real adventure.

I've missed feeling fear in mmos since I quit playing EQ1. There is nothing that immerses you in the world and makes you care about how you play like not knowing what is over the next hill, that might aggro you and probably kill you. Ever since WoW though, it has been the norm in mmos to just mount up and train through 100 mobs while loling and just keep going till they break aggro.

It's funny, though, because even in those other "casual" MMO's you could still easily get killed in areas higher than your level. In this game it's true that there's nothing really that will ruin your day unless you're incredibly dense.

Developers lean more towards convenience in their design plans these days. There's certain things I miss like low HP aggro or magic aggro, but other things are fine being gone. XP loss on death and having to sneak/invis through everything, I can do without that.

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Originally Posted by Velev

I agree totally~!

<snip about aggro>

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Be careful what you say. The majority of this community are casuals who will whine and scream if anything challenging is put in to the game.

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Originally Posted by misterrpg

Be careful what you say. The majority of this community are casuals who will whine and scream if anything challenging is put in to the game.

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Leave your hardcore rhetoric at the door champ. We're all gamers here. As with all games, if you don't like what the developer is doing you can vote with your subscription but one thing you can be certain of is that, as a business, they're going to design their games around the largest demographic and that in most cases are those casuals you find so distasteful.

The hardcore crowd burning through content are a nightmare for devs, they can never produce enough content to keep them sated hence you get hit with artificial barriers to entry such as zone lockouts and tome caps. Essentially, the masters of their own woes.

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Originally Posted by misterrpg

Be careful what you say. The majority of this community are casuals who will whine and scream if anything challenging is put in to the game.

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I hear you and i would have to agree.

I just really miss stuff like that hehe.

Man, just what we REALLY need. Every time we die to Twintania, we have to go outside and kill some stuff to be able to enter Coil again!

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

The hardcore crowd burning through content are a nightmare for devs, they can never produce enough content to keep them sated hence you get hit with artificial barriers to entry such as zone lockouts and tome caps. Essentially, the masters of their own woes.

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I agree with this part of your statement about Hard Core players.

Though I now consider myself to be Casual/Mid I will say that today's younger generation of gamers have this instant gratification mentality about them (not all mind you but enough that it's noticeable). I see people whining about content being too hard and they want things now and don't want to put forth the effort and time to accomplish anything.

It might take a casual player 4 months to get the same item a Hard player could get in one but you can still get it and yet the casual will complain it's too hard and want nerfs so it's easier for them. These people I believe do not belong here and should go and play a Pay to Win MMO because that's what they really want.

Have to agree, nothing in this game worries me. Maybe Sprint should be limited like calling a Chocobo. Have agro, no choco and no sprint. Not enough mobs agro by sound either I think.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Open world PVP, your gear getting looted

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There are MMOs out there like that, so if you want to play that kind of thing you have the option. One of my friends has been trying HARDCORE to get me to leave everything and play Darkfall or Day Zero because they're open-world PvP with full loot systems. Even your friends can gank you for no reason and steal EVERYTHING you have. Zero-sum gameplay is an old mechanic that really only appeals to players who either gather their enjoyment from other players not being able to enjoy the same thing or being the one to take enjoyment from someone else.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

I agree with this part of your statement about Hard Core players.

Though I now consider myself to be Casual/Mid I will say that today's younger generation of gamers have this instant gratification mentality about them (not all mind you but enough that it's noticeable). I see people whining about content being too hard and they want things now and don't want to put forth the effort and time to accomplish anything.

It might take a casual player 4 months to get the same item a Hard player could get in one but you can still get it and yet the casual will complain it's too hard and want nerfs so it's easier for them. These people I believe do not belong here and should go and play a Pay to Win MMO because that's what they really want.

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The instant gratification thing isn't so much a generational thing as it is a cultural thing. I know a lot more adults than children that want things now simply because time is becoming more of a luxury and investing large amounts of it to anything, especially a game, the expectation is to see progress or results. The days of grinding one character to max level over the course of a year is just not viable to most people anymore.

The problem with never nerfing content depends on the gating mechanism to lock out newer content. If it's just a matter of gear-gating then you can grind out Mythology stuff to enter newer content. It may take longer, but it is an option. For sequential content, roadblocks like battling Titan to get into Coil becomes the bane of your existence if you're latency prevents you from being able to react to twitch mechanics properly because of communication issues between you and the server. You require a Titan HM kill to enter Coil, we don't know the pre-req for Crystal Tower, and most likely the next raid will require a Coil clear. No player wants to go a long period of time without being able to enter Coil simply because Titan HM has issues with latency and a myriad of other issues for people. Once something new comes out for the players in Coil now, the unused content should get some alterations to move the playerbase up toward the next tier.

If you add a death penalty, people will be even less forgiving to people who make a mistake because they are new. This would cause an even bigger lockout to new people.

Also death penalty is just stupid, period. It doesn't make me scared to die, it'll just make me more angry.

You can't make these games scary. It's impossible. Things can only be scary by yourself. The Slenderman online version isn't scary because you have friends to laugh with while playing, vs the solo game which has you crying.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

If you add a death penalty, people will be even less forgiving to people who make a mistake because they are new. This would cause an even bigger lockout to new people.

Also death penalty is just stupid, period. It doesn't make me scared to die, it'll just make me more angry.

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100% this. Death penalties only make me afraid to give players I don't know a chance.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

You can't make these games scary. It's impossible. Things can only be scary by yourself. The Slenderman online version isn't scary because you have friends to laugh with while playing, vs the solo game which has you crying.

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Thats not true.. I remember farming for " Testimony " in XI which was required for MAT fight. This could not be done alone for the most part. Yes i know it could be done, but it was easier with a group. But getting to the target mobs were always scary not matter which job you needed the paper for. The BCNM ring was also scary because the amount of seals you had to pay .. you never wanted to FAIL.

What about JSE subligar. These are dropped by Fomors in Phomiuna Aqueducts as well as in the Sacrarium. Man these were level capped areas and farming these took hours for the group and at each turn True Sight mobs were every where.

That was FEAR man. FEAR

Stuff like that is a lot less scary when you start to realize they're just content hurdles to slow down your progression and keep you playing (and therefore paying) longer. Though you could make the argument that there's a happy balance to be struck, as you can't make it too easy to progress or people have no incentive to continue. I'd say this game has done a pretty fair job of that, though, so far- considering Coil took 2 months to clear.

In the end, most of the people I see asking for things like death penalty are the people who would be affected the least by it. Go figure.

If you want pure fear you can take your PS1 and go underwater near Junon at lv1 XD
I'm a low level gamer, so I like that kind of fear, like battling Adrammelech at lv18, or Grand Dragons at lv15 XDD

Funny you posted this I was talking to a friend about this very thing. Having to run way around mobs because you know they will smash you're face if you try to run past them even just world elite mobs seem to be falling out. Sad that like you said "Feeling Scared" Of areas or mobs cuz you will get owned is no longer around. 8(

I forget the name of the zone(cave/tunnels) but it was a popular leveling area for parties around 45ish, killing crabs. I was in a party there for the first time as a THF and we got attacked out of nowhere by the dragon that roams that zone. EVERYONE was getting merked....I popped Perfect Dodge and barely made it to zone. FEAR mang

If you want a scare, there's always Minecraft and that part in Resident Evil 1 where the dogs jump through the window (I jumped even when I was expecting it).

Oh, and also Duty Finder.

I joined Odin with a lv1 Armorer.

Fear was using sneak and invisible spells and being reminded always at the wrong time that " Sneak is about to wear off " > in order to recast sneak spell > would cancel Invisible > this would mean you would cast sneak again..and then invisible >

Then no doubt somebody in your party would say > Sneak Please.... an the whole time...your trying to avoid > Mobs that could Murder you with a couple of pops.

FEAR man .... That was fear.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

I forget the name of the zone(cave/tunnels) but it was a popular leveling area for parties around 45ish, killing crabs. I was in a party there for the first time as a THF and we got attacked out of nowhere by the dragon that roams that zone. EVERYONE was getting merked....I popped Perfect Dodge and barely made it to zone. FEAR mang

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It was Kuftal Tunnel and the NM was Guivre > was a Wyvern but yeah.. man that T-rex with wings killed many many many adventures. lol

http://http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Guivre?file=Guivre.png

Even at lower levels in Valkurm Dunes... at night with Bogy's at the beach. They would just decimate group after group. I did love the fear aspect of FFXI, but I understand how it might not work as well with today's playerbase, back then it seemed like people accepted that things were harder, now people just whine. :(

Not only did those things make you feel afraid, but going back and killing those monsters at higher levels made you feel POWERFUL. There's also no sense of -that- in FFXIV either.

I am still scared of Titan... whenever the DF window pop-up I need to prepare mentally for torture

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Originally Posted by Klutz64

Not only did those things make you feel afraid, but going back and killing those monsters at higher levels made you feel POWERFUL. There's also no sense of -that- in FFXIV either.

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I'm not sure taking 5-10 minutes to kill something 10 levels below you is what I would consider empowering.

Exp loss was never a fear. Having to run back places was what made sneaking with sneak and invis so awesome. And before they introduced leashing having to zone because a party member agroed a golbin was annoying but made the game more well can't think of the English, um.......skill required? Like people had to learn or eventually you just got rid of them.

FFXIV is fun. Well it was fun. I have not played for the last two weeks cause I have no drive to. We shall see once the 2.1 comes out. But yes FFXIV has none of the same "fear" that XI had. The leashing in open world is far too short and dungeons are so auto mod atm that well I can nap while doing most of them. The game wont change to be like FFXI was in this aspect as Yoshida doesn't like to punish stupid players or people who refuse to learn and watch out. Everyone makes mistakes but most people learn from them.