If you have the time, please read this.

Found it on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._to_read_this/

Granted, the story is based in World of Warcraft, I felt that it was a good read.

If by chance, you're an individual who plays in Cactuar and have went through a similar situation as the guy in the story (or just want someone to talk too), let me know. We can party up and help each other out. Thanks.

Is it strange for me not to care for this person? I loathe the way modern MMO's are making it more and more of a solo experience and how the communities in all online games MMO or not, seem to be going downhill but..... Why does he let himself be subjected to such treatment and apologize afterwords? Grow a backbone man and if they still won't help maybe find another online game. At the risk of sounding worse....you can't fix stupid? Not that I know if he was really stupid or anything but sometimes people just can't learn something because of lack of intelligence.

Honestly though as much as I would like a community that helps and works with each other to achieve a common goal this seems sad in a different way. People seem to act bothered or troubled that they are forced to even interact with each other even more so are asked to help someone, and yes that bothers me. The day that I would allow myself to be subjected to such treatment from the entire community like that is the day I stop playing or move on past those people who should be deemed pathetic to take a game so seriously. I don't know, I just can't feel for the guy, if that makes me a heartless bastard then so be it.

Agreed

This is a great read

We should help out our fellow players more and bring this community together :)

Phew, amazing story. Thanks for sharing it :)

I can really feel sorry for the poor guy too. All he needed was someone with a bit of patience and some proper guidance to start improving. I always say that we all have different learning rates, and that what might seem trivial to someone can be really hard for another one. Sometimes it's not just that said person is not willing to learn, but that s/he simply can't find a way to do so by him/herself (or with poor explanations or guides that assume that you already know certain things).

We've all been newbies once upon a time, and we're all relative newbies when we come to any new game. Yet I see constantly that people expect certain things from others even a few days after that game started, not to mention what some expect from others after some months or more. Back in the old days the community would help all those newbies without asking a thing (yes Titan runs, I look at you), just for the satisfaction of doing so. Those days seem to be over tho, but I'm glad that at least in some community someone has been able to start a change within it to bring that spirit back to gamers.

Again, nice post there.

It's WoW so no one here should be surprised in the slightest.
That being said, this community here is ungodly too. Very rude jerks in DF sometimes.
The stories I've read on DF horrors are pitiful.
We may be peoples on the net, but we still have feelings y'know?
Words hurt.

But I wanna agree slightly with Battlewench. The guy needs a bit of a backbone.
This was a good read nontheless. People need to be nicer and helpful more.
Just because we hide behind a screen means nothing.

I guess the biggest thing to take from that post is "We all had to start somewhere". I can understand people wanting to form groups with only relic players to farm their philo and myth faster, but just because you happen to group with someone that may not have the best gear or play their class perfectly that doesn't give you the right to dog on them.

People need to treat other players better in general. Those aren't just characters on the screen; they're represented by real people with real feelings.

This is a change I'd like to see happen here as a whole. The question is, however: how long will that positive change last? It usually comes full circle unless the developer themselves enact some kind of measure to support a positive change like this.

LFM Titan run, must be in full darklight at LEAST and a couple myth pieces as well as ifrit or garuda weapon. If you die to plumes will kick you. Please submit your resume of previous raiding experience to http://www.mosteliterai.derse.verwho...stuff......com (not a real website) must include contact info for the screening process. Must be 18+, another requirement to join our raid you must be.....

The reason why this story is significant is because someone actually took the time to take responsibility for something negative about themselves, which is rare in a community where everybody act as if they're in the Navy SEALs and anyone who can't keep up with them is somehow inferior to them and not worth hang around with. When these guys mess up, they will blame everyone but themselves.

If you notice someone not playing as well as you, do you just assume they're bad and not worth helping? If so, then you're just as much of a problem as those bad players, who might be bad only because nobody bothered helping them learn the ropes. "I'm not here to hold people's hands" is fine if you actually do belong in an elite military force tasked with carrying out dangerous missions that require only the best of the best. But if you're saying this in a video game that is designed around the idea of a inclusive community, then it's you who are playing the wrong game.

And god forbid this guy "grow a backbone". At least if this guy was apologetic it throws the elitists off and at worst they ignore him. But can you imagine if this guy became argumentative? He'd be chewed up in an instant. As far as I'm concerned, being able to admit failure and showing a real desire to get better takes more backbone than anyone who simply resorts to trash-talk and trolling when responding to criticism.

Having said that, I doubt this kind of behavior will change as long as people feel a need to flaunt and defend their e-peens as often as possible (to offset their low self-esteem in real life, of course) and feel safe enough in their anonymity in doing so.

As much as we would all love to see this happen, (Myself included, I will happily take the time to help anyone on my server that genuinely wants to learn to be a better player and isn't just asking for a free dungeon run/handout.) It will not. There are a few people that are more than willing to help, I can guarantee that. More than likely you whom are reading this are one of them.

-But, (Yes, anytime someone uses the word but, you can pretty much ignore everything they said before it.)

The community as a whole is filled with too many d**s, jerks, and a******s for any actual change to come about for the better. I hate you, you know who you are, the person I spoke of in my previous sentence, for ruining the type of gaming community that I grew up with and enjoyed being around for almost 20 years now.


So, great read! Yes, more people should do something good like that, lets all try to make a change. Just, don't expect it to happen. Society has changed too much for the worse in my humble opinion.

I am truly and deeply saddened by what you as a community have become as a whole over the past 20 years.

I can really relate with this story in many ways. It was quite frustrating for me in the beginning when I played my first MMO (Ragnarok Online) because I was wanting to improve, but a lot of people weren't even giving me the time of day because I was a newb. I didn't know the battle mechanics for boss fights which they've run hundreds (or possibly even thousands) of times, I was still learning my character, etc.

So, I was left to only party with other "losers", but... You'd always have the elitist who would remind you that a group of losers doesn't make a better party, you're all still losers. As I did finally improve, I slowly began to become something I hated over time... I lost sight of who I used to be due to only focusing on who I was at the time, a knowledgeable player.

This caused me to behave in a rather immature manner at times, not wanting to give players, who were much like myself at one point, a second glance if they didn't know what they were doing. I felt as though they were wasting my time if they kept getting the party killed and such.

It's really difficult to keep a humble attitude after knowing how long it took you to get where you are today, you know? You can't help but feel like you're on a completely different level from this other player, no... A different league even. Here you have spent 1,000+ hours on a character, maxed out all the jobs, have most of them equipped with the best gear that the game has to offer, and this guy hasn't even put in 100 hours worth of playtime.

I'd be lying if I said there was never a sense of superiority when confronting someone like that. A part of you probably demands respect from that person so they will recognize your accomplishments and the time you've invested. It can be difficult to remind yourself you used to be a novice at some point as well and it only gets harder to remember the more you play.

You begin associating yourselves with other veterans and before you know it... You're part of the cool kids circle. Thus, the community becomes separated in what I'd like to call the 'Lower class', 'Middle class', and 'Upper class' players. Each category consists of new players, intermediate players (basically people who have dumped a bit of time into their character, but still have a way to go... The halfway point, I'd say), then the expert players that treat the game as a profession and study it. Much like the real world, it's very rare you'll see the 'Upper class' associating with the 'Lower class' individuals.

After hanging around the same group of people for so long, you begin to grow comfortable with them. There's also something known as 'dolphin evolution' which occurs. This happens when you've associated yourself with a group of individuals for so long, you begin to have their mannerisms, share their ideology, and even behave like them (sometimes even changing the way you laugh).

This is why it can be so conflicting if you should ever have to make a choice between these people you call your friends and helping out a stranger. You'll have to risk everything you've worked for and basically reconstruct yourself from the ground up if you help the stranger because in this group of elitists, there's no room for modesty or charity.

These days, I just try to disassociate myself from individuals altogether to try and avoid the drama which inevitably follows. I guess that sounds kind of sad when I think about it, but at least this way... I'm able to retain my individuality while communicating with a multitude of players instead of solely focusing on a particular group (i.e. Coil only FC/LS). Don't get me wrong though... I'm still impatient when it comes to players just simply not learning.

I can't tell you how many parties I've left in Brayflox because the tank keeps the dragon in the poison every time we try and fight it, causing me to eventually run out of MP. The worst part is, they usually want to blame me since I'm the healer. "Why didn't you keep me alive?"

Oh, I don't know... Maybe because you're a dumbass? I can't heal when you're draining all my MP, noob! So yeah, I do act like that sometimes, haha. It's just very situational. You can tell when someone is really trying and when someone simply just doesn't look like they care or want to learn.

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Originally Posted by EmiliM

And god forbid this guy "grow a backbone". At least if this guy was apologetic it throws the elitists off and at worst they ignore him. But can you imagine if this guy became argumentative? He'd be chewed up in an instant. As far as I'm concerned, being able to admit failure and showing a real desire to get better takes more backbone than anyone who simply resorts to trash-talk and trolling when responding to criticism.

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I'm not saying admitting that your bad at something is bad, I'm not saying become argumentative, I'm saying he has no reason to apologize and doing so negatively effects my opinion of him to the point that I no longer care. Having a backbone doesn't mean arguing and trolling it could also mean bettering yourself and not apologizing for doing nothing wrong. Having confidence in yourself is needed, as long as it doesn't become arrogant. I wouldn't want sympathy from those people who were shunning me either. Not trying to argue or anything just wanted to make it clear what I meant when I said "grow a backbone" and I still stand by the statement.

I think the key take-home point is something perhaps any who are involved in education would know: every student is different.

An "outcast" that is branded "stupid" or "slow" could suddenly perform top notch if you teach him the right way, i.e., the way he understands. Granted, if there are circumstances that prevent a person to react reasonably fast, then there's absolutely no way he can perform well in an reaction game (getting out of AOE, keeping tabs on adds, etc.); but regarding gearing, builds, rotations, it's basically just application of knowledge.

The problem is everyone thinks guides and wikis are enough. "If I could learn it reading the wiki, sure as hell anybody should be able to." But that is simply not true.

Most gearing and rotation problems stem from a lack of basic knowledge regarding the design of the battle system; the connection between cause (gear/rotation) and effect (damage output). You help him make that connection, and his performance improves.

As an example, when you see a Black Mage melding +DEX on his gear, what do you say when you try to teach him? "You need INT/Crit/Hit/etc but never DEX." But you did not provide the key connection that he doesn't have, that is really making him meld DEX: "INT does this/Crit does this/Hit does this, and DEX does that so you don't want it". The problem with a lot of "guides" or "how-tos" is the lack of connection between cause and effect. Hence the guides become just a list of "do this and do that", but if you don't understand the why in the first place, you still don't after reading the guide 100 times.

LOL I remember that thread. I'd actually be surprised if a lot of folks take the time to read that, even moreso due to the fact it's on the WoW forums.

On-point though, I have a friend that I play this game with that's kind of in the same boat. He's just playing to have fun, but he's not exactly the greatest at what he does. Gets hit by easy to avoid AoE, stands in the fire or in bad positioning (close to tank sometimes), etc. Part of that is likely due to his laptop only being slightly better than minimum reqs. After knowing this guy for years, his not dodging things often is definitely not on purpose... it's just how he is. Some people won't adjust themselves at the drop of a hat. Some people need help from those they're comfortable with. Our group of friends on this game understand that and we really don't see a point to pushing him on getting better (yet).

The beauty of this game is the gradual need to adjust your playstyle if needed, as far as mechanics are concerned. It throws things at you that aren't a "do or die" sort of thing from the beginning. For example, Ifrit storymode fight. It's a GREAT way to help someone practice mechanics without being too punishing for making mistakes and without wasting time on running around or fighting trash. Each primal fight is a great way to practice mechanics, along with the guildhests for more basic training.

It made me cry. :(

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Originally Posted by Toranja

It made me cry. :(

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OMG!
Pretty Pink Porty!
I love you. x)

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Originally Posted by Battlewrench

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It seems to be a Korean (East Asian?) thing to apologize if others feel wronged by you. I'm not even going to pretend to be an expert or anything. I've just seen it so many times (along with getting annoyed when the person didn't even do anything I thought was wrong, so I see your point). It seems off to some, but it's definitely a cultural thing.

Nice story.

Now back to reality.

Can't really help anyone when any time you try to give people advice, they just tell you to F off.

Welcome to World of FFXIV.

+1 for the read.

It's a game folks, more than that it is a MMORPG. A genre founded on community. Take some time and make a friend. Duty up for a lvl 10. Keep an eye out for the adventurer in need. Be "that player" from some random gamers memory that helped them when they needed it.

I tip my digital hat to those of you who are trying to make this a better community for all.

I read it. I do believe that it applies to all MMO (or online game) communities -- not just WoW. I don't think anyone is as 'infamous' on any server for being as bad as the warrior in that post, but people definitely have a reputation.

When you see someone who is not playing right, you have three (really two) options:

1) Try to help the person by offering encouraging (but blunt) friendly advice.
2) Call the person out for being bad and kick them without offering any help.
3) Let the player down easy by saying you are breaking the party, when in the end you are just waiting for him/her to leave so you can replace.

I always choose the first option. You have to be careful about what you say, though, because even if you are polite and friendly... your advice might not always be wanted. Some people give advice that ISN'T good so new players have to be skeptical about what other players are telling them. Some new players who aren't very good will get offended if they are told what to do. I once explained to a healer in Titan that he had to Esuna people ASAP (people were sitting with it on for the entire duration) and he told me he didn't have time for it. I told him, "I know it's hard, but you have to do it." That's the simple fact of the matter.

Some players will not take advice. They will always be bad players BECAUSE they do not try to improve in any way. Other plays WILL take advice and they are worth helping! When given the option, choose option one. The only time I get annoyed is if I have limited time and advertised for a run with people who knew what they were doing... and someone joins who clearly doesn't know what to do. I do many runs with inexperienced/undergeared players... so please don't mislead me when I am trying to get something done fast.

There isn't much to do in FFXIV right now. If you made it to 50 and geared up your main job, what is there to look forward to besides Coil and Myth farming each week? There is always time to help people, but it is really a two way street. How is the person being helped going to take it? How are you going to say it? You have to be polite and nice... not a jerk. I met one SMN who refused to use Fester because he thought it wasn't worth it. Other members in my party laughed at him, but I tried to explain why it was worth it. Unfortunately, everyone laughing at him may have caused him to become even more deeply entrenched in his original standpoint that he didn't take my advice. This is never good. We don't grow as a community if we unnecessarily insult others.

In FC or Linkshell on vent or on mumble things can get political. Especially if the person we're talking about isn't in it.

"Oh so and so is horrible." "Yea - can't even dodge landslides"

In the back of my mind, a voice is shouting at me to say "...maybe they have a bad internet connection." "Or... Oh who cares - it just adds to the challenge and we're playing a game so lets just enjoy it and have fun."

But then I kill the conversation. LS will go silent. Mumble will die. I will be ruffling feathers and will on record as sympathizing with a bad player, which, by association makes me a bad player.

No one will want to run with me because I'm not hardcore. I'm a jerk who can't hang. My greatest fear: "Who cares if he can kite Caduceus. Doesn't know anything about teamwork. Invite someone else. We've got options.".

The trouble with the human condition is that we're all human. Negativity bias is too strong and no one wants to be called out on it.

This is the reason I really like to do pugs. No one knows who you are, and you can be who you want to be :D

For those who claimed the guy had no backbone, it takes real courage to stand up and admit you are bad, and that you are not so great at understanding when people try to help.

He could of just blown of the raid leader guy and proclaimed he wasn't bad. But no, he took the other route by admitting to being bad and then working with the guy to improve himself.

Would that even half the players in XIV behaved as these two did, we'd have an amazing community of players.

Thank you for linking that. This is a story that shows me there is still decent players out there willing to help when most will not.

As to no backbone, you have to realize that not everyone in this world is self confident and that sort of 'popular' person that has 100s of friends, is respected universally, and is the type that get's invited to all the cool kid's parties.

Many are alone, shy, low esteem, some are treated poorly and or have problems in RL, and some suffer from being bullied. It's a cruel world, I guess. :(

I feel that fellow was admirable to admit he needed help and was willing to learn...that is a far cry better than simply denying it and getting hostile.

Cheers to the OP, you bring hope to the bleak, impatient, and hostile community that has taken over the genre....heck the world.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

LFM Titan run, must be in full darklight at LEAST and a couple myth pieces as well as ifrit or garuda weapon. If you die to plumes will kick you. Please submit your resume of previous raiding experience to http://www.mosteliterai.derse.verwho...stuff......com (not a real website) must include contact info for the screening process. Must be 18+, another requirement to join our raid you must be.....

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Restrictions apply to those applicants from RI, NY, and MD
Social security number, finger prints, and valid photo ID required for federal background check.

And I don't know what you guys are talking about, I was born in full relic+1 and AF+1 for all jobs. Matter of fact I've got some gear from crystal tower and pvp tokens already too.

this need constant bumps.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

For those who claimed the guy had no backbone, it takes real courage to stand up and admit you are bad, and that you are not so great at understanding when people try to help.

He could of just blown of the raid leader guy and proclaimed he wasn't bad. But no, he took the other route by admitting to being bad and then working with the guy to improve himself.

Would that even half the players in XIV behaved as these two did, we'd have an amazing community of players.

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Mmmm... I can definitely see where you're coming from, but there are two sides to every coin. While it is admirable to take responsibility for your actions, especially if you're being a burden to your team, on the other side of that coin... You should learn to have more self-confidence instead of being a welcome mat for everyone. You don't want to be that guy that everyone puts the blame on, even when it wasn't entirely your fault (see: a failed Titan/Ifrit/Garuda HM attempt). Since I've been playing as a Scholar these past couple of weeks, I have run into plenty of tanks and DPS that put the blame on me for them dying, despite them being careless.

Now, if I was like this guy, I would have just groveled and begged for forgiveness. However, I knew deep down inside it wasn't entirely my fault. Yes, I am the healer of the party, but I am only one person. When both DPS characters attack separate enemies and the tank is focusing on one, and I'm having to try and keep everyone alive, then someone dies, I don't hold myself responsible. It was too unreasonable to expect me to be able to keep everyone alive at that point and the character(s) died due to lack of coordination with the tank. Sure, I may feel bad for not being able to save them, but that's where my sympathy for them stops. In the end, I know better and I understand who was to blame there.

So, while this guy may actually have a backbone for admitting to his mistakes, I'd say he doesn't have a backbone because he's just a "yes man" and will say anything to make or keep friends. He's probably dealt with bullying his whole life, and being the lowest on the totem pole, so he's probably just grown into a habit of apologizing all the time, even if he's not the one at fault. It's kind of sad, really.

Touching.

Sadly this community is going the same way, just over a week after release, people were already moaning about 'newbies' in CM and repeating, "skip skip skip" etc.

Now you cant move in Mor Dhona without hearing, "LF X, must have Y gear and know Z tacs, fail once and get kicked!"

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Originally Posted by d4rkie

*bump* was searching the forums to see if this was posted already. It's a good read, and highly relevant to the current state of FFXIV community *judging by these forums and some DF encounters (had my "bard can join us later" moment in Praetorium as a fresh lvl 50 just last weekend)*.

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http://http://forum.square-enix.com/...should-read-it
I see lots of threads about it, now lets see some action by the community.

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Originally Posted by Diadumenos

http://http://forum.square-enix.com/...should-read-it
I see lots of threads about it, now lets see some action by the community.

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It looks good on paper, but it will take a lot more than an emotional story here and there to change the community. I hate to sound cynical, but this will probably be swept under the rug and forgotten in a couple of weeks, if that. Afterwards, people will go about their daily lives and multiple threads complaining about the community will continue to pop up.

Plenty of people want to do something about the community, but nobody is doing anything. It's kind of ironic when you think about it.