I wish I could experience the 1.23 combat

I've seen it mentioned time and time again since Beta was practically an unpolished gem that was just about to shine. Unfortunately, due to me having no source of income and very pitiful PCs (even now), I was not able to experience 1.0 myself.

So, when I see these veterans praising the combat of version 1.23, my curiosity immediately becomes piqued. Sure, I could look up videos of how it was, but we all know how watching MMO combat is. Without all the context, we're not getting the full picture, and if we don't have the full picture, it's dull to watch. Even action-oriented MMOs can suffer from that.

This is why I'd like to make an (admittedly outrageous) request to release a sort-of 'beta/test' client that makes use of the combat found in 1.23 rather than what we have now. Purely for the purpose of having those like myself who have been intrigued about the combat trying it out for ourselves and gaining that bit of satisfaction. Perhaps even if a majority of us prefer the 1.23 version combat to what we have now it may convince Square-Enix to integrate it or combine it with the current system in future updates.

I'm not asking for a full client built the old system, mind you. That wouldn't be fair. On the (very off) chance that SE happens to decide to satiate this curiosity, I believe it would be best if this test was done as a single instanced dungeon on a different client. No character creation necessary. Pre-made, max level characters with all the current jobs to feel the experience in full (for the most part).

Now, I want to make it clear that this is not a demand. This suggestion is incredibly outlandish and I realize Square-Enix have much better things to do with their time and resources than to bring up the past. I just really want to know for myself how the combat in 1.23 was like. With own hands. To see what the veterans are so nostalgic about. What I missed out on. So, since I can't go back in time, it'd be really cool if they did do something like this, even if it was temporary. I'd gladly pay to play it as well.

Also, before you begin bashing on the 1.23 combat and such . . . don't bother. There's no need and it wouldn't even serve a purpose in this thread. You can't alter my opinion of something I haven't experienced myself. That's why I continue to have no opinion of FFXIII even after the constant complaining/criticizing people do about it.

Well, in short let's put it this way:

1.23:
Combo System - Many positioning requirements and other factors met (i.e dodge/missed an attack/evade/under x effect etc)
ARR:
Combo System - Very very few positioning requirements that hardly matters outside of Monk.

1.23:
Battle System in General - The game was on an engine not suited for MMOs so it had some core problems, so if you wish to have experienced it, take what we got with ARR now and add depth and more involvement into it ontop of gear actually meaning something:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qw06iw.png

I'm also in the camp that 1.23's battle system was better and assumed ARR's would have been an extension of it, making it even better.

i am hoping they layer the combat involvement back in at least in sprinkles

Regardless of the popularity of mindless 1.0 bashing around here, the original version did many things right. Combat was one of those things.(1.23 version especially) When the dev team asked the player base what it was they wanted, the vocal majority begged for major changes to game as a whole.... So the team went to work revamping/replacing everything about the game.(including the combat) Ironically, many of the same players who spoke out against 1.0 now rant and complain about ARR. ...In short, be careful what you wish for...

Another way to say it might be, maybe the "vocal majority" of players don't always know best.

It had a lot of problems due to the engine but one thing I do miss was the need for collaboration between players. An example, Tanks had a move that would take all the hate from a party members attack. So they would use it on my BLM and we would need to communicate to each other when it was up for use so I would then slam a whole group of mobs hard with a massive aoe that helped with my role of killing but also the tanks role of holding hate.

Now in 2.0 it's all every one does their own thing. It's almost a lonelier existence. Once you learn the fight mechanics there's no real need to communicate. Then again you couldn't talk here anyways because of the constant run and gun mentality of the endless waves of AOE's this version shoves in your face at every corner. I miss being able to think, plan and communicate my next move vs just spamming my rotation and running for dear life every 10 seconds.

But I understand why they changed things. Standing still in one spot and having to talk through battles doesn't make for the most exciting of videos or really be welcoming to the casuals.

Yep, basically tanks would have a BLM fully buff then drop a powerful nuke and be planted with solid enmity for..basically the rest of the fight assuming they know how to tank lol.

is there a database that still preserves the 1.0 items and skills? During beta it was still up but now I cant seem to find it.

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Originally Posted by azethoth

is there a database that still preserves the 1.0 items and skills? During beta it was still up but now I cant seem to find it.

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http://ffxiv.mozk-tabetai.com/

Someone is actually working on an emulator for the original FFXIV, so it may be possible to try the old battle system if the guy behind this project can make it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYKmJQoWJew

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

http://ffxiv.mozk-tabetai.com/

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Thanks a bunch, wanted to see the old item buffs. Cheers. It is missing skills though. Ill keep searching for that.

EDIT:
Found it on Zam
http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist....class=8&page=2
this is link to lancer. Man I miss the thm possibilities before they went elemental.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

http://ffxiv.mozk-tabetai.com/

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Oh, Monks had chakrams? Awesome. They should implement those somehow. We could use a ranged move.

I disliked the 1.23 combat system. First off it was so much more laggy. All weaponskills had long cooldowns on them. Like warrior had a 3 part combo you could do once every 30 seconds, there was a period of doing nothing while you auto attacked to build tp. It made you not want to play the game. 2.0 though is much improved and faster paced a overall a lot more fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I disliked the 1.23 combat system. First off it was so much more laggy. All weaponskills had long cooldowns on them. Like warrior had a 3 part combo you could do once every 30 seconds, there was a period of doing nothing while you auto attacked to build tp. It made you not want to play the game. 2.0 though is much improved and faster paced a overall a lot more fun to play.

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That's just telling me that you don't have the patience for slow combat. I grew up on JRPGs where you normally take your time to think before you act. I loved it.

It's all personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yep, basically tanks would have a BLM fully buff then drop a powerful nuke and be planted with solid enmity for..basically the rest of the fight assuming they know how to tank lol.

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quite an understatement considering many of the higher level boss fights had complete hate reset moves such as coincounter. you had a big hate lead and then the move comes and stoneskin would get the mobs hate. this is taking a very basic approach to something that was quite complex considering no matter how good the tank was if the dd's didn't limit themselves a mnk or blm could take the hate from a tank without limiting themselves and using their emnity lowering gear, potions, and abilities. the numbers never added up that a dd could go all out when well geared and zerg a mob because it would lead to a faceplant from pulling hate,

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Originally Posted by Virtuso

But I understand why they changed things. Standing still in one spot and having to talk through battles doesn't make for the most exciting of videos or really be welcoming to the casuals.

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I'm a casual and I really hate all the area attacks, the "mechanicks" (that get more annoying than fun after a few times), and how everything is on "go".

Having to run all around while casting skills like a cheesy action game... I thought the most important thing in a FF MMORPG would be what you use, when you use and on whom you use, not how much skills you can throw while following a script. (I was completely ignorant of ARR)

I enjoy the game a lot, but we don't need a WoW-like combat to make the game more like WoW.

Anyway, mine is the same case as OP's... couldn't run the game back then, so I only watched videos.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Well, in short let's put it this way:

1.23:
Combo System - Many positioning requirements and other factors met (i.e dodge/missed an attack/evade/under x effect etc)
ARR:
Combo System - Very very few positioning requirements that hardly matters outside of Monk.

1.23:
Battle System in General - The game was on an engine not suited for MMOs so it had some core problems, so if you wish to have experienced it, take what we got with ARR now and add depth and more involvement into it ontop of gear actually meaning something:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qw06iw.png

I'm also in the camp that 1.23's battle system was better and assumed ARR's would have been an extension of it, making it even better.

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you obviously dont know how MNK works in ARR its nothing but constant position changes. u have be moving all around to maximize dmg

I just want Simian Thrash back :(

I miss 1.23 combat. It was so much better.

What I don't like current in ARR combat is melee characters are "Ice Skating" all over the place. Somehow the Attack animations + movement, just does not fit.

And also PS3 limitations

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

you obviously dont know how MNK works in ARR its nothing but constant position changes. u have be moving all around to maximize dmg

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To be fair, Monks are the only class that require constant movement/position changes other than Dragoon, but to a far lesser extent.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Well, in short let's put it this way:


1.23:
Combo System - Many positioning requirements and other factors met (i.e dodge/missed an attack/evade/under x effect etc)
ARR:
Combo System - Very very few positioning requirements that hardly matters outside of Monk.

1.23:
Battle System in General - The game was on an engine not suited for MMOs so it had some core problems, so if you wish to have experienced it, take what we got with ARR now and add depth and more involvement into it ontop of gear actually meaning something:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qw06iw.png

I'm also in the camp that 1.23's battle system was better and assumed ARR's would have been an extension of it, making it even better.

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I'm not in this camp personally, for the most part ARR's combat is more fluid, snappy, faster. Some issues remain, but I think they went overboard with the positional/conditional requirements as it led to too large a number of skills simply being ignored because they could rarely be activated. The combo system was mostly retained; Battle Regimen was a good idea in theory (basically skillchains that could be executed automatically with the right timing and sequence) but was horribly implemented and ended up only being functional at all with extreme coordnation, ironically the issue with skillchains that BR was trying to lessen.

That being said, what I DO miss is gear with special effects (like what you pictured) ; a few event items do have special effects listed on them, so we know they're possible, but they're mostly absent from all gear (the only one that exists on a crafted item i know of is increased spiritbond gain). I would really like to see gear with unique and/or job specific bonuses to show up, it would really spice things up a bit.

sorry break the bubble but 1.23 combat system.. No thanks its not better its terrible.
only i miss is an high level 79 to 90+ monster luring.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

ontop of gear actually meaning something:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qw06iw.png

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Yoshi-P has mentioned that they will introduce gear at a later stage with more variety in stats. For launch they were very concerned about balance and wanted to keep it fairly simple.

1.23 were good days...; ; The game was going in such a great direction. Back then having a relic actually meant you went through a lot of stuff for it ; ; Now with my FC I can get my relic in less then a couple hours lol....sad.

But yeah the 1.23 combat was awesome!

2.0 combat is better by far.
2.0 gear stats are the ones with the problem, nothing special between upgrades, just better core stats which is lame.

1.23's stat system was much deeper, but 2.0's battle system is much faster and has more movement. I remember just standing around in most fights waiting for MP or everyone stack to one point and burn the boss. I do miss the gear stats though, but there is already some mixing and matching needed for coil and myth gear. I just hope they can throw in some ilvl 90 crafted or GC gear into the mix, with maybe a return of special buffs for wearing AF pieces like in 1.0. I want it to be hard to decide on which gear to use in a slot, not just have everything be coil/myth or bust.

Personally prefer 1.23 combat system too. It was much closer to what I expect of FF MMO combat than what we have in 2.0.

Opinions: Slower is better than faster if done right, 1.23 combat is less hectic and has more weight to it. The 2.0 combat just feels...shallow, too flashy.

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Originally Posted by Recycler

Personally prefer 1.23 combat system too. It was much closer to what I expect of FF MMO combat than what we have in 2.0.

Opinions: Slower is better than faster if done right, 1.23 combat is less hectic and has more weight to it. The 2.0 combat just feels...shallow, too flashy.

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I think this is the biggest problem right here... New gen gamers vs old gen gamers. Most of the people I know are from FFXI/FFXIV1.0, and played FF from when it was early in the series if not very beginning, so we have a certain mindset of how combat goes in FF games. Meanwhile, we have the new kids now growing up on WoW, Tera, Aion, plus more action-oriented games on consoles - which have an entirely different mindset.

This game tried to invite both, and ended up as we are now lol... I personally have cancelled my sub until I hear about more depth added to the game. It just doesn't feel like a FF yet, though if everything have planned comes through it should be nice about a year from now (seeing how things keep being pushed off).

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Originally Posted by Sho86

I think this is the biggest problem right here... New gen gamers vs old gen gamers. Most of the people I know are from FFXI/FFXIV1.0, and played FF from when it was early in the series if not very beginning, so we have a certain mindset of how combat goes in FF games. Meanwhile, we have the new kids now growing up on WoW, Tera, Aion, plus more action-oriented games on consoles - which have an entirely different mindset.

This game tried to invite both, and ended up as we are now lol... I personally have cancelled my sub until I hear about more depth added to the game. It just doesn't feel like a FF yet, though if everything have planned comes through it should be nice about a year from now (seeing how things keep being pushed off).

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For me, that's just a poor excuse
It is only you who can control how fast you want it to be.

FFXIV is a mixed game
Wow it has been out for many years, everyone had time to play it or test it.

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Originally Posted by Atamos

Snip

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Not now he wont. Incomming C&D order. Congratulations!

I respect that some prefer the somewhat more deeper stat meanings in 1.23 and it's comboing system but I disliked the pace.

It was too slow, you had downtimes, significant ones at that.
I was a MNK in 1.0 to 1.23 and I definitely found it to be way to slow for me.

Positioning meant allot in 1.23 for who ? Monk, Dragoon and ? Who else ? In ARR you have Monk who requires different positioning for several skills and Dragoon which need positioning for some.
Why should that change ? Why should the Tanks have positioning ? Why should the Bards have positioning ? Man don't want to imagine distance Jobs having to position in Titan :P

All in all there are things which where neat in 1.23 but in the end I prefer ARR's pace to 1.23's.

:D

From what a bunch of you are saying, I do agree that gear should have varied stats on them. The way they are now is too much of a linear climb.

I've also seen animations from 1.0 that I would love to see in 2.0. Especially the unique battle stances across races.

Wasn't there a thing at one point where each job class had a certain position and it affected loot drops and had special effects or something?

Seeing that video made me miss the awesome animation quality in 1.23 again. Now I'm sad.