[To the Devs] WHY can't High Level Characters enter dungeons with LVSync OFF OPTION?

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

putting [To the Devs] in your subject line won't increase the probability of the devs considering your topic, and can actually repel them from it. They will read threads without you doing this, so don't.

If you don't want discussion on your suggestion, stuff their suggestion box instead of posting here.

So...

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Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

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The exact reason they DON'T want you to not level sync. Your friends should get the full dungeon experience, at least the first time they play it. That's like saying "what's the harm in using a cheat code to beat the game faster?"

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

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The harm?

*Looking for level 50 DPS class to run me through story dungeons!*

Ever tried to play WoW? many low level players refuse to do a dungeon their own level, and will only invite a max level character to destroy the place. You get next to no XP per kill for even having a high level player in your party nearby.
I love the level sync, dungeons retain their difficulty no matter how many max level players join.
It also limits certain skills from being used in dungeons that were designed knowing we wouldnt have them.

I think you just want to solo farm dungeons for stuff to sell, and are upset you require a full party for all dungeons.

Needs to sync more. A character with end game armor doing level 30 dungeons is still significantly over powered.

Brings more harm than good. You can always help friends by lvl sync, doing the content as it was intended. You want to complete dungeons faster, however how does that help your friend learn their job? It would be no better than mindless Fate grinding.

How forum feedback works:

1. Topic is created
2. Topic receives LOTS of replies
3. Community manager (aka 19 year old intern) reads (some of) the thread in between checking Facebook / watching cat videos on YouTube.
4. Community manager brings up the topic in weekly meeting which includes sales, marketing, and development
5. 99% of the time, no one takes any interest, or Dev simply says, "oh that's nice, but its not on the roadmap"

Basically, the way to get your thread noticed is to generate a ton of replies to it. Addressing a topic to Dev Team, SE or Santa Claus will not help you get your voice heard. Raising valid points pertaining to perceived issues and generating a large community response will.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Needs to sync more. A character with end game armor doing level 30 dungeons is still significantly over powered.

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I wouldn't say over powered. I would say it has max stats for that level depending on gear equipped.

Yeah as noted above, this ruins dungeoning in WoW rather often.

Before they had an LFG tool it was hard to get into a PUG and not find some max-leveler in there gimping your XP and drops just by being around. Even with their LFG tool now, it will happen once every dozen or so runs (and in WoW dungeons are so fast and easy, that can be once every 2 to 3 hours)...

Anytime an expac has a new race or class and there's a bubble of people leveling alts - it becomes a mess of folks who bring their 'buddy' and ruin it for everyone else.

In guilds... if you're a high level, you will get whispered all day long by new recruits with "can you run me through the Tower of Nooblets?"
- and it gets very taxing trying to tell people NO, and then getting back "wow this guild hates new people"...
- And the worst part of that is, level sync is not an option there either - so you couldn't sync down and help them even if you wanted to...

But now think of those old raids... You hit 60, or 70, or 80, or 85... and want to try out some raid... one max level member comes along and you end up spending the entire experience just watching a machinema of another person play WoW, up close.

GW2 and City of Heroes both had level sync, and it was great. City of Heroes made it an option... so you ended up with the 'Nooblet' crowd and the 'vet' crowd kind of resenting each other still... "stop pestering me for runs" versus "nobody is helpful around here"... but they let people sync up, so it got even worse "if you want to see the max-level taskforce, level up already and stop asking to get carried in"...

GW2 got it right: mandatory sync to the level of the dungeon. End of discussion because there is no discussion. Want to run the level 35? bam, everybody entering is level 35.

FFXIV does the same... and it helps to avoid a LOT of potential drama.

But GW2 does one better: if you go into that level 35 on your 80... you get loot like an 80... so everybody likes to run everything across all the levels. FFXIV should copy that - especially because we have better level syncing here. In GW2 if you go with your 80 to a 35 dungeon, you actually have the ability/power of about a 38... so you somewhat overpower the place... Here, the sync seems to be more precise... no overpowering. Or, maybe I just haven't seen it yet.

But they need to make it worth it loot wise.

What I would like to see is that our skills NOT SYNC, considering that you can you use cross-class skills higher than your current level (or synced level). I for one would love to use some of my higher level abilities in lower dungeons.

Stats syncing is just fine by me, but I would dearly love in learned skills don't sync.

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

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You want to help your friends, play a healer-almost instant queues. If they're a healer, play a tank. They learn how to play their character, you can reduce the odds of someone else getting their loot on drops, and you learn a new role. Everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by RoosterAgathos

I wouldn't say over powered. I would say it has max stats for that level depending on gear equipped.

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I think gear needs to be sync further. I recently did a Darkhold on PLD for a FC member, went in as PLD, full DL/+1sword/+1shield. Our healer literally afked for 5 minutes and no one noticed as I kept pulling because I was taking next to 0 dmg. In level appropriate gear I would normally get hit for 200-400ish on normal hits. Not once during the run did I get hit for anything over 50 other than on the bosses.

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

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Please stop trying to tune this game into WoW clone. WoW is boring with all these "new elements" they put into game after TBC. If you dont want to spend time in MMORPG, go play console game like Skyrim.

I don't see why you would want this. Don't you enjoy playing video games with your friend?

Wouldn't you rather spend ~30min playing a game together rather than ~10min face-rolling and having your little buddy tagging along after you.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

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I liked GW2, But the lack of Tank/healer roles turned most dungeons into fusterclucks of people running around in circles trying not to die.
Once the vanity system comes out, we will see a sort of surge in people with max level characters playing lowbie dungeons, because some of those lowbie sets look damn fine.

For getting proper loot for 50s in lowbie dungeons ... No i don't think that would work. Those lower level dungeons were not designed to be challenging, and a LOT of the XP in lowbie dungeons comes from killing trash, which a max level Tank simply will not do, which gimps the levelers out of a lot of XP.

Once the HMs for existing dungeons all make it out, hopefully the drops in those wont be recolored drops from the base mode.

It ruins the experience for any first-timers. Often I will jump out of Haukke Manor as THM/LNC/whatever I'm leveling up at the time and go in as my WAR to help my group because the tank left for some reason. The final boss is too easy even with the level sync due to me having my relic and my AF+1 chest piece. If anything I would say we need MORE level sync restrictions, I'd still like a challenge when I go back to these low places.

I have absolutely no problems with level sync, it's been a boon since it was introduced in XI, allowing people to party with lower or higher leveled friends. What I don't like, at all, is the solo level capping. You aren't learning anything in the process like you do in the dungeons, you're by yourself. Take the level 12 two stage story battle we all have to do where it's a mass combat followed by a demon. If you don't know about the battle beforehand you can easily get overwhelmed in the mass battle and murdered by the demon if you're a class that would have ordinarily kited a solo opponent. If you fail any part of the battle you have to do the whole thing over again. If you can't beat it as you are you should be fully able to hit the leves or hunting logs and level beyond the instance to give it a proper thrashing.

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Originally Posted by AridElf

The final boss is too easy even with the level sync due to me having my relic and my AF+1 chest piece. If anything I would say we need MORE level sync restrictions, I'd still like a challenge when I go back to these low places.

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Yes.
The level-synced gear should have the stats 1 or 2 points under the right level gear.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I have absolutely no problems with level sync, it's been a boon since it was introduced in XI, allowing people to party with lower or higher leveled friends. What I don't like, at all, is the solo level capping. You aren't learning anything in the process like you do in the dungeons, you're by yourself. Take the level 12 two stage story battle we all have to do where it's a mass combat followed by a demon. If you don't know about the battle beforehand you can easily get overwhelmed in the mass battle and murdered by the demon if you're a class that would have ordinarily kited a solo opponent. If you fail any part of the battle you have to do the whole thing over again. If you can't beat it as you are you should be fully able to hit the leves or hunting logs and level beyond the instance to give it a proper thrashing.

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There is a buff now after you failed it the first time. It should be no problem to finish this quest with the buff.

higher item level gear is indeed still of higher quality when synced down.

I like level sync and see no reason why should it be removed. It maintains the challenge for high level players who help out low level players.

It's a win-win.

Yea, terrible idea. I enjoy the level sync feature.

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

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No, this is very harmful. Having high level player carry new players through dungeons results in new players at high levels who haven't the faintest clue how to actually play the game. That is, even more so than we currently have with players FATE-spamming their way to 50. Basically you're asking them to allow your friend to cheat by being carried through the story content. Not gonna happen, besides, if you do level sync, your gear and skills will get nerfed to the maximum level for the dungon. Though the bonuses on your armor and other gear are not effected, their basic properties are sync'd, so even level sync'd you have a distinct advantage over low level players, not to mention you understand the mechanics of the fights and can easily mow through them using your knowledge...you do have that knowledge, right?

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Originally Posted by RoosterAgathos

I wouldn't say over powered. I would say it has max stats for that level depending on gear equipped.

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No, as AridElf notes,

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Originally Posted by AridElf

too easy even with the level sync due to me having my relic and my AF+1 chest piece. If anything I would say we need MORE level sync restrictions, I'd still like a challenge when I go back to these low places.

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...level sync doesn't really go far enough, players in end-game gear will have significant advantages in lower level content, even with level sync.

You know, I'm pretty sure that level sync'd gear does not scale based on the quality of the item. It seems to be a blanket cap that is applied equally to all gear of the same "type" (for lack of better words).

A simple example would be: I went into Sastasha wearing a darksteel haubergeon, had 96 strength and 128 defence (as reference points). When I donned by drachen mail, my stats did not change in the slightest, except for the difference in secondary stats (ie skill speed went down because it has 0 on it natively). Another example was between my coliseum galerus and peltast acton, stats were unchanged between the two (albeit the defense went down to 122 between the drachen mail and the peltast acton). In fact, the foestriker chest actually gave more defense which I found interesting.

Overall it feels that level sync'd gear all sync down to the same stats which seems more or less identical to the dungeon greens (well I actually guess that it simply syncs the stats down to the ilvl equivalent of your level - ie ilvl 18 if sastasha). I suppose it makes it technically better than on level gear but not by much. That was just off hand observations though, I'd be interested to see proper information regarding it.

well part of it is most people in those dungeons have far underleveled gear.

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

Reason is we want to take our friends and complete dungeons fasters

DONT FORCE US TO LEVEL SYNC

atleast give you the option to turn it off whats the harm in it? NOTHING

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I know right!? It doesnt hurt NOTHING...

... except making the content trivial for lower levels who'd just get a speed run with friends or high levels steamrolling the content to gear up their alt classes. Oh and lets not forget the fact that the DF pool would drastically drop, further hindering the ability for newer players to progress through the story.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I liked GW2, But the lack of Tank/healer roles turned most dungeons into fusterclucks of people running around in circles trying not to die.

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Which is not topical here for this subject. Context GW2 was referenced in was different.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

For getting proper loot for 50s in lowbie dungeons ... No i don't think that would work. Those lower level dungeons were not designed to be challenging, and a LOT of the XP in lowbie dungeons comes from killing trash, which a max level Tank simply will not do, which gimps the levelers out of a lot of XP.

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Worthwhile loot doesn't have to mean equal loot. Just worth it in relation to the challenge. Scale Gil rewards from trash mobs to match your actual level, then cut by some percentage to reflect the easier nature - that will do it right there. Your tanks that would otherwise avoid the trash, will focus on it if that is where the bulk of any benefit they could gain from being there comes.


So... lets say that... making this up without thought to accuracy... Sastasha was only 60% as hard for a level 15 as CM is for a level 50. We base this off of data for character death rates. 1.6 times as many characters dies in CM as in Sastasha (remember I'm just making these number up. Reality is almost certainly VERY different). So then we make a trash mob in Sastasha give 60% of the Gil a trash mob in CM gives, and then adjust for your highest or current combat class character level.

If two months later the data for deaths says 2 times as many toons are dying in Sastasha as are in CM, then a Sastasha trash mob would give twice the Gil of a CM mob, and then be adjusted for level.

- That could all be done programatically with some rather simple database table setups, such that the rate never again needed to be adjusted by human hands and would regularly scale itself as the overall community found different dungeons hard or easy. You even factor in popularity... Dungeon X gets run 53% more often than dungeon Y? Find the average for all dungeons: "run Z times / day" A dungeon run only 66% as often as that... gets a boost of (66/2)% to Gil for trash mobs... recalculate this at midnight server time.

Rewards can be tweaked to make things worth it more, or worth it less - to encourage players towards or away from things... and it doesn't need to be the 'static set numbers' so many MMOs use. Databases and computers are great for on-the-fly mathematical tweaks...

@OP they have the level synch so that higher level players CAN do dungeons with their lower level friends instead of just carrying or dragging them through it. Also having to compete with higher level players farming content when you are required to do that same content to complete the storyline quest can be nerve wracking and tedious.

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Originally Posted by Kayo

I know right!? It doesnt hurt NOTHING...

... except making the content trivial for lower levels who'd just get a speed run with friends or high levels steamrolling the content to gear up their alt classes. Oh and lets not forget the fact that the DF pool would drastically drop, further hindering the ability for newer players to progress through the story.

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ppl already spamming FATE how is it any difference

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

ppl already spamming FATE how is it any difference

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Because for now it is limited to FATEs, keeping dungeons for those who want non-facerolling party play.

I'm ok with this if!
The duty finder is using a pre made group.
If non of the people in the Group are on there 1st time threw.

All I have to say is who here remembers Baby Ifrit from 1.0?

enough said...

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Originally Posted by realmreborn

ppl already spamming FATE how is it any difference

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He says, as he neglects every single other point made in the numerous responses.

Level sync needs to stay.

But would like 2 changes.
1. don't lock out skills, makes running jobs on 30 and below dungeons annoying since it takes away almost all cross-class skills, that combined basic skill lock out, destroys the efficiency of your hotbar setup, Unless you make one specifically for low levels.
2. Spirit bonding equipments, right now you get little or no gain during a level sync. since its syncing the stats also let it sync the bonding rate.

I love the Level Sync feature. However, I've long loved soloing dungeons, just for the challenge. Therefore, I would like to make the following suggestion:

1. You must first clear the dungeon as normal, in a party at the appropriate level.
2. Your character can now enter that dungeon solo, and ONLY solo, without level sync.
3. If that character enters the dungeon with ANYONE ELSE, everyone syncs as usual.
4. If anyone joins your party after you enter, you sync as usual.
5. Switching jobs automatically syncs you, unless you are solo.
6. No gear drops that isn't Untradeable and Unsellable. (no saleable green gear, etc)
7. No gil drops, item drops, or treasure chests. (to keep gilsellers from chain-farming dungeons)
8. You have an option to select a level to sync to while soloing a dungeon.

They need the artificial limits so they can milk subs.

I just wish they would add 100 phil tomes to every instance once you get that said character to 50. I think it would alleviate alot of the low que problems for lower levels while at the same time giving higher levels more dungeons to do, while at the same time helping low levels or being able to play with your friend who may be lower level while still advancing your said 50 Job. Also I would only suggest phil tomes to every instance after level 50, and not mythology. I mean come on all the level 50 dungeons now give 100 tomes anyway. Might as well add it to all the dungeons once you hit 50 for diversity and a reason for higher levels to join the lower dungeons. I know it would help for Sunken Temple lol.

ok, at some point this would be very nice. I think they should revisit this idea when they add the vanity slots, that way (if i so please) i can go back and do lower level dungeons just for vanity gear. For instance, i really like the look of the battlemage set in Brayflox, but i can't really bring myself to lot against others on it seeing as i'd only use it for a level or 2 before swapping a majority for GC gear and the like.

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Originally Posted by nitrous24

ok, at some point this would be very nice. I think they should revisit this idea when they add the vanity slots, that way (if i so please) i can go back and do lower level dungeons just for vanity gear. For instance, i really like the look of the battlemage set in Brayflox, but i can't really bring myself to lot against others on it seeing as i'd only use it for a level or 2 before swapping a majority for GC gear and the like.

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Yea I honestly think that would be the best Idea they could do for the game right now besides adding in higher level content, but until the higher content is added if you where able to get 100 phil tomes from any instance after 50 it would be a win/win for both higher levels and lower levels.