new players screwed?

So my friend wants to play ffxiv, great. he gets the game and is now level 20 and is trying to do probably pirates. So he is in Q for 4 hours and cant get a group. Then it hits me, i cant run him though by my self and there is no reason for anyone pass this quest to ever run it again since fate spamming is so much better. No one is making more chars other then there 1 because there is almost no need.

So what now, my friend is ok because i can hook him up with 2 more people to help but how does a brand new player with no friends on a server do anything with this game at this point?

Be nice, unequip your soul crystal for half an hour and play with your mate :p
I've been wonderin around Thanalan and helping low level Thurm's do FATEs with my tank, granted I dont have my soul crystal yet but it helps level my Alt class :)

No problem at all! 2.1 will introduce a random dungeon system, so there'll be plenty of high lvl players who will get queued up for lower lvl dungeons!

Oh wait, 2.1 isn't until another 2 months. You'd almost think SE didn't think this through.

As someone else mentioned, it's going to be pretty tough with someone brand new to the game, and with no friends. The only real hope is to find an FC/LS with friendly people willing to sync down.

2.1 is suppose to have a system that fixes that (though details about it are scarce atm), but that's a ways out.

they need to drop fate exp and raise dungeon exp.. or better yet, give us some levelling areas where we can be with a party (this part is off topic of course)

i try to level my jobs in dungeons and therefore am helping new players.. but by level 35 dungeons are no way to level and you are forced to fate if you want to see progress..

fating is stupid, i hate it and it leads to problems like the OP has noted.

there is no skill in casting blizzard II.. and you see these jokers in titan wondering why they cant win..

PLEASE.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT FATES!! - You have the ability to shout for party members, he could just level Conjurer to 15 for an instant queue then finish the dungeon and continue his way, no queue is 4 hours. The longest queue I've had as a DPS was 44 minutes. Why don't you go help your friend? You can use your current gear it'll sync down..

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Originally Posted by Animation

stuff

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looks like we found a fate grinder :P

He stated he did exactly that. HOWEVER a new player who starts this game will NOT have a bunch of high lvl friends helping him out. Shouting won't help much either. When there's nobody around in DF, which is cross server, how high are the odds you actually find people through shout? Not everyone is constantly looking for lowbies they can help.

Also having to lvl to conju just to complete your storyline is once more players being forced to circumvent design flaws. While it's an option it should not be forced onto players to go play another class in order to get things done (and when you're applying for something like Satasha, you don't "just" lvl a class to 15. Heck your main won't be much higher than that at that time)

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

looks like we found a fate grinder :P

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I enjoy the odd FATE or 2.. Hundred.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

/snip

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I stated options that he could have done..

I think it would be helpful if you could be registered for DF while in a party. That way you aren't forced to solo for the hour (or longer) that it takes for a group to finally pop up. I've only had to queue up as a DD a handful of times, and I felt I was being punished during the wait time by not being able to get decent exp whilst waiting due to the party restriction (even having the bird out cancels DF...although I hear this should eventually be changing).

I do think it's important for people to go through dungeons to help learn their jobs, but the wait times are a huge turn off. Hopefully the tweaks they are making will take care of this.

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Originally Posted by Animation

I enjoy the odd FATE or 2.. Hundred.

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I am glad you have a sense of humour lol :P

I'm gonna just ignore saying the "SE needs to do this and that" sort of thing and just give a suggestion that I give to everyone that they can do now, new or not. Make friends or at least attempt to be social. Don't just join a party and stay quiet. Say something, even if no one responds. Heck, just saying "Hi" is good enough of a start. Maybe compliment someone, if you see they leveled, throw out a random "grats". Be friendly.

New players generally won't concern themselves very much about forcing themselves into exclusively doing DF content. If they have some background in MMORPGs, they'll understand several things (if they aren't too clueless about the genre). One of which is the role differences towards a queue timer. You don't need to have experienced this games DF or LFD/LFR in WoW to eventually understand that healers and tanks are probably the minority. It's more of a logical look into the situation. Meaning they'll likely queue faster. Heck, even if they don't learn that, they can still ask someone random about the queue times if that's a problem.

In general though, new players won't be exclusively focused on the DF, they'll be focused on leveling and/or exploring. Both of which can be done while in queue anyway. SE does not need to hold their hands through basic human functionality and adaptation. There's enough for new players to do in this game that doesn't involve relying on the random DF queue. There is also the fact that information about doing things in the game is readily available for anyone to search for (Google).

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Originally Posted by Animation

PLEASE.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT FATES!! - You have the ability to shout for party members, he could just level Conjurer to 15 for an instant queue then finish the dungeon and continue his way, no queue is 4 hours. The longest queue I've had as a DPS was 44 minutes. Why don't you go help your friend? You can use your current gear it'll sync down..

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How long ago was that, that you waited 44 minutes? 3 days ago I queued up for AK. Waited 2 hours. For 2 hours I crafted waiting for a queue pop as a BLM. I created a Gladiator class as a second character, took 3 hours in the DF for it to pop. It popped, a member withdrew from it, and it didn't pop back up. Luckily I had 3 very nice people nearby who seen my shouts since my FC wasn't online at the time all level 50 in DL just doing gathering helped me out. There are extremely long wait times. You shouldn't open your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

/Snippity.

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Techically I didn't open my mouth at all, I pressed keys on my keyboard. You must just be really unlucky or I'm lucky the longest queue I've had on a healer was 5 minutes for AK on Monday, DPS is normally 20 - 30 minutes.

So only apply for AK just after myth cap resets. Again, work arounds.

@Welsper
As a low lvl player there's just not much else to do. Lvling Wut? You can't continue your MQ without the dungeon and there really aren't that many sidequests at those lvls. Sure, you can grind fates, but how many people know that's the most effective way to lvling? Exploring? Not really. You set one step wrong and suddenly stand around lv30+ aggressive mobs. Do that a few times and people won't bother straying off their quest locations anymore.

On top off that you get THREE of those low lvl dungeons in a row. So when you finally get your queue for the first time and finish it, the game throws the next dungeon at you. I highly doubt that's a very enjoyable experience for someone who just sat in the queue for ages in his previous dungeon. This has nothing to do SE holding peoples hand, it's screwing low lvls over in their STORYline, because the low lvl dungeons die out.

Not to mention how ironic it is that half the forum complains about how people lvl solely on fates and do no dungeons, when low lvl dungeons are dead and they can't run them even if they wanted to.

Just because FATEs are the fastest does not mean it is the only way. friend stuck on a dung, you can queue with him and your level synced down. Need more then 2, ask your FC to help and if no one in your FC will help for such things then you prob need a better FC or LS.

He is shouting and people are telling him to go do fates and when he asks for help with it people say get a 3 other people and i can help stuff like that. Dont matter if you are a healer or tank if no one else is doing these dungeons you wont get a group by just /shout or being in q.

My point is this is a HUGE hurdle for new players and really screws up the game for them. Didnt know about the 2.1 so i guess we'll have to wait for that.

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

Just because FATEs are the fastest does not mean it is the only way. friend stuck on a dung, you can queue with him and your level synced down. Need more then 2, ask your FC to help and if no one in your FC will help for such things then you prob need a better FC or LS.

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You clearly didnt read the post and you must think people are some nice on mmo's these days lol.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

How long ago was that, that you waited 44 minutes? 3 days ago I queued up for AK. Waited 2 hours. For 2 hours I crafted waiting for a queue pop as a BLM. I created a Gladiator class as a second character, took 3 hours in the DF for it to pop. It popped, a member withdrew from it, and it didn't pop back up. Luckily I had 3 very nice people nearby who seen my shouts since my FC wasn't online at the time all level 50 in DL just doing gathering helped me out. There are extremely long wait times. You shouldn't open your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.

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I've never waited more than 45 minutes as DD either, places like Wanderer's Palace often goes at 25 mins.

All you need is 1 tank and 2 dps. Surely you can find one tank and 2 dps to go with them. For that matter everyone can roll a tank to get through the main story to que faster and then reroll at 50.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

So only apply for AK just after myth cap resets. Again, work arounds.

@Welsper
As a low lvl player there's just not much else to do. Lvling Wut? You can't continue your MQ without the dungeon and there really aren't that many sidequests at those lvls. Sure, you can grind fates, but how many people know that's the most effective way to lvling? Exploring? Not really. You set one step wrong and suddenly stand around lv30+ aggressive mobs. Do that a few times and people won't bother straying off their quest locations anymore.

On top off that you get THREE of those low lvl dungeons in a row. So when you finally get your queue for the first time and finish it, the game throws the next dungeon at you. I highly doubt that's a very enjoyable experience for someone who just sat in the queue for ages in his previous dungeon. This has nothing to do SE holding peoples hand, it's screwing low lvls over in their STORYline, because the low lvl dungeons die out.

Not to mention how ironic it is that half the forum complains about how people lvl solely on fates and do no dungeons, when low lvl dungeons are dead and they can't run them even if they wanted to.

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Why can't they run dungeons? I've never encountered a problem so far, nor have any others that have solo queued them in the last week or so (this includes entry level dungeons). And the handholding thing was referring to being social. I would hope that a human being would not need the help of SE to show them how to be social, to make some friends that can potentially do stuff with them. I made friends with a tank, me and him would queue through dungeons whenever we could. I've gotten several other new players through things because they basically befriended me through the LS/FC.

It's not impossible for people do things if they put some honest effort into it. Queuing solo is not putting in any actual effort in a socially aimed game, and yes, MMORPGs are designed for people to be social with each other.

Again, I have to stress, most new players are not going to be focusing exclusively on dungeon content. They'll just be leveling (you can level without completing a single dungeon... FATEs and regular quests...) and/or exploring. I meet new people all the time that do exactly this while waiting for the queue, assuming they even want to queue in general.

What you describe sounds like you're pulling in the mentality of veteran/experienced players together with them being in a situation that they just started the game. Meaning they'll guarantee have that same level of impatience and boredom that they stereotypically have. That's not the case for most new comers.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

No problem at all! 2.1 will introduce a random dungeon system, so there'll be plenty of high lvl players who will get queued up for lower lvl dungeons!

Oh wait, 2.1 isn't until another 2 months. You'd almost think SE didn't think this through.

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2.1 is next month.

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Originally Posted by Animation

PLEASE.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT FATES!! - You have the ability to shout for party members, he could just level Conjurer to 15 for an instant queue then finish the dungeon and continue his way, no queue is 4 hours. The longest queue I've had as a DPS was 44 minutes. Why don't you go help your friend? You can use your current gear it'll sync down..

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Not exactly a fan of the delivery, but I have to agree with the last point. OP's friend must be playing at some really odd hours, 'cause I run the low level dungeons all the time for my alts (Satasha, Copperbell, and Tam-Tara are excellent for getting 15-20 quickly) and have never waited more than an hour

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Originally Posted by Animation

no queue is 4 hours. The longest queue I've had as a DPS was 44 minutes.

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Umm... I've had 4 hour queues for Amdapor Keep back before they added more instance servers, I know I'm not the only one either.

Is your friend a dps?

My server is a full server locked from almost day 1. only just opened up so he started a little while after they opened, how many people do you think are Qing for these lowbi instances? my guess is next to 0. So now he has to try and convince people to help and or make friends some how at that level when everyone is busy fate grinding. Thats a lot of time and effort in just trying to do a simple quest chain like come on. Join instance is one of the better places to buddy with people i find as well... He also like my self works so we can sit around in q all night. Either way i can help him and he will be ok but what about other peps. If they find out they joined the wrong server after already gettting to 15 or higher you think they are gonna reroll when same thing can happen again? no they are gonna quit.

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

2.1 is next month.

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That may not be accurate. They mentioned in the last live letter that they were planning on doing monthly Live Letters before 2.1. Monthly. Plural.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

That may not be accurate. They mentioned in the last live letter that they were planning on doing monthly Live Letters before 2.1. Monthly. Plural.

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If thats all true and its fixed in 2.1 and thats in a months time then none of this wont really matter that much. 6 months would be really hurtin though.

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

they need to drop fate exp and raise dungeon exp.. or better yet, give us some levelling areas where we can be with a party (this part is off topic of course)

i try to level my jobs in dungeons and therefore am helping new players.. but by level 35 dungeons are no way to level and you are forced to fate if you want to see progress..

fating is stupid, i hate it and it leads to problems like the OP has noted.

there is no skill in casting blizzard II.. and you see these jokers in titan wondering why they cant win..

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Absolutely agree. It is not a good idea to have story quests REQUIRE dungeons that do not give any significant reward worth repeating. The gear is great, sure, but you can get similar gear from your Grand Company (when that is unlocked of course). So, nerf fates buff dungeons!
If your wondering, yes I absolutely hate FATEs. I dont even heal anyone since it isnt needed. Tanks never tank, usually its some bard who tanks bosses. What is the point of them exactly?

I'm dps I've never waited over 40ish minutes for a duty. I could go to that dungeon right now and get in in an hour at the very max.

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Originally Posted by Svennyblaze

I'm dps I've never waited over 40ish minutes for a duty. I could go to that dungeon right now and get in in an hour at the very max.

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http://comstat.memecdn.com/images/comment/707.gif

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

That may not be accurate. They mentioned in the last live letter that they were planning on doing monthly Live Letters before 2.1. Monthly. Plural.

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We already have a timeline of content patches occurring every 3 months. November is the third month after August.

I can see this happening. Luckily I realized this when I first started and blew through the story...I was taking my sweet time, and started thinking...what if everyone finishes the story missions? Who will que for the story missions then? ESP the ez mode primals and other small duties.

Best you start a link shell or a free company to run dungeons together. Unlike FFXI, you can't do quest together because it's solo-orientated. It doen't even give you the option to join forces because now it's crazy to do that in a MMO.

This game s is flawed but some-how will have to live with it while new updates come up. Make a link shell, find like-minded people and practice playing what ever class he's playing. I fyour friend is having problems with the Duty Finder, you can still build a party around it and still use the system.

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Originally Posted by ItzKris

Absolutely agree. It is not a good idea to have story quests REQUIRE dungeons that do not give any significant reward worth repeating. The gear is great, sure, but you can get similar gear from your Grand Company (when that is unlocked of course). So, nerf fates buff dungeons!
If your wondering, yes I absolutely hate FATEs. I dont even heal anyone since it isnt needed. Tanks never tank, usually its some bard who tanks bosses. What is the point of them exactly?

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It's a double edged sword really, even after the hotfix, getting a decent "last story dungeon" feeling out of CM and Prae is near impossible without the exact right group of people. Since those who want to speed run for tomes and those who just want to get the story out of the way to unlock endgame kind of ruin it.

OP's post was pretty short... yet it appears only a few respondents read it.

I'm glad you were able to help your friend, and yes I thought about that exact situation arising as soon as the game went live. There are mandatory dungeons, and most players just want to level fast via fates... so here we are.

Hopefully 2.1 will fix it, but the downside is, it's highly likely that many 50s in a totorak for example, will just be blowing through the place and berating the newbs just like they do in the level 50 dungeons. But hey, at least they will be getting things completed ♥

I've taken 3 characters through there for the story (retainer alts), all as DPS and the queue was never that long, even if I did it late at night when queues are significantly longer.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but it seems highly unlikely.

I will absolutely be available to any new player out there that starts late and needs help completing content. I started late in FFXI, could not complete content on my own, and absolutely could NOT find ANYone willing to help a new player will quests or dungeons. Everyone I met was elitist and rude and unwilling to take the time to help a noob like me. That was like 9 years ago, and I have made a point to not treat a new player like that ever since.

That being said, I (coincidentally) started FFXIV:ARR late as well. I was in 1.0, and in the most recent beta, but my computer died right before early access and needed rebuilt. Almost 2 months later I am finally playing, and I've been fortunate enough to find a group of people (Moogle Militia on Adamantoise server) that are willing to accept and help players like me, even though we are not already doing endgame runs and all that. So yeah... nice, friendly and helpful people/Free Companies are out there.

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Originally Posted by gelectrode

So my friend wants to play ffxiv, great. he gets the game and is now level 20 and is trying to do probably pirates. So he is in Q for 4 hours and cant get a group. Then it hits me, i cant run him though by my self and there is no reason for anyone pass this quest to ever run it again since fate spamming is so much better. No one is making more chars other then there 1 because there is almost no need.

So what now, my friend is ok because i can hook him up with 2 more people to help but how does a brand new player with no friends on a server do anything with this game at this point?

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thats a main complaint that we see concerning fates and dungeon finder....

no community rep involved on server so you have jerks everywhere being selfish

fates while slowing down are still too easy to spam while watching TV... so its abused. It was a nice test but come expansion time.... it should be removed and parties brought back or servers added and dungeons being the way....

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Originally Posted by Latasha

I will absolutely be available to any new player out there that starts late and needs help completing content. I started late in FFXI, could not complete content on my own, and absolutely could NOT find ANYone willing to help a new player will quests or dungeons. Everyone I met was elitist and rude and unwilling to take the time to help a noob like me. That was like 9 years ago, and I have made a point to not treat a new player like that ever since.

That being said, I (coincidentally) started FFXIV:ARR late as well. I was in 1.0, and in the most recent beta, but my computer died right before early access and needed rebuilt. Almost 2 months later I am finally playing, and I've been fortunate enough to find a group of people (Moogle Militia on Adamantoise server) that are willing to accept and help players like me, even though we are not already doing endgame runs and all that. So yeah... nice, friendly and helpful people/Free Companies are out there.

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This! I ran into the same thing when trying FFXI and it ultimately turned me off from the game completely. I usually stick to doing stuff with my FC mates though. Keeps me plenty busy running dungeons on it's own. So sadly, not a whole lot of time to help out the newbies.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

This! I ran into the same thing when trying FFXI and it ultimately turned me off from the game completely. I usually stick to doing stuff with my FC mates though. Keeps me plenty busy running dungeons on it's own. So sadly, not a whole lot of time to help out the newbies.

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I didn't figure I was the only one that had that experience. Still, there's no reason your FC can't be newbie-friendly and helping them run dungeons and such also. :)