[Dev] Battle Attribute Allotment

While I’m happy with most Battle Reform Blueprint, one thing catches my eye.

Quote:

---

The decision: attribute point allotment will no longer accompany gains in physical level, and will instead occur when characters rise in class rank. Although the amount in frequency of points awarded will be lower than previously, players will find that each point will have a more profound effect.

---

And then in *Job he says:

Quote:

---

Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying.

---

Now my question is, how is this not going to force us to do many jobs, classes for reasons like more attribute point’s and skills??

Edit: Since X Letter from the Producer, most of the questions have been answered in "list of changes"

Edit: The only question left is, if there will be any bonus attributes, for characters with multiple classes and jobs.:p

I'm assuming it'll be tied to that class and/or job. So, your THM 50 would have a completely different pool of points from your 23 PGL, for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm assuming it'll be tied to that class and/or job. So, your THM 50 would have a completely different pool of points from your 23 PGL, for example.

---

This would be great, just switch class and u are rdy to go, same going 4 skills exept, extra ones slightly improving other classes maybe. Like that we wouldn’t be forced much, to do multiple classes, jobs, just the ones we like :)

I think pretty silly that people selected to manually add points, instead of the system automatically distributing them for you. Seriously, how many people are going to play a melee mage? Also how would this work with the jobs? Let's say I choose White Mage for my job and I join a party. My party members are going to assume that I placed most of my points in Intelligence or Peity, but instead I placed them in STR or DEX.

EDIT: Now I'm hoping that when you switch classes, whatever points you placed in your stats are saved for each class, but if they don't we'll have a lot of pissed off people. But if it doesn't then that solves my White Mage problem above, I can just change out my stats.

EDIT 2: Also if my stats are saved for each class, does that mean I can't change them anymore?

Yeah, I'd expect them to be saving the skill setup for each class, especially since they indicated plans to do so for gear/skills. They never said anything about taking away the ability to re-distribute the points, either, so I'd expect that to stay, as well.

Going by the original vision they do want to force you to rank up ALL the jobs.

The key to this is making sure that every class/job has some use of every attribute. At the minute if you are a MRD you don't really have use of things like INT, PIE, MND so you just ram everything into STR, DEX and VIT. If they make certain abilities use modifiers from across a range of attributes then you can really be allowed to focus on customising your play style.

So for example with MRD you could a make certain weaponskill have a heavy INT modifier so you sacrifice stats in other area's to make sure that you could deliver that weaponskill better than a MRD who focused on different area's. So maybe you wouldn't hit as hard with normal attacks as the MRD stood next to you but when you deliver that weaponskill that you put INT into it would do a lot more DMG than someone who didn't.

I think something like that would be pretty cool.

I can see one MAJOR problem with tying attributes to class rank, that being that a rank 1 THM with 10 rank 50s will now be exactly the same as a new player on a rank 1 THM. They've gone from forcing you to rank all classes to making it so that no amount of ranks in other classes benefit you outside of the class itself.

I just hope by then that surplus is gone. Yeah, try to rank up that one class with 50% exp reduction now that no other class ranks are of any benefit to you outside of shared skills (which you won't have access to when playing a Job defined class, so enjoy).

With all said, I'm hoping the point reallocation penalty is removed. Would be much better to switch from melee to mage and be able to allocate all your points at once instead of the current system which leaves you as either half a mage or half a melee.

What I would like to see is a system where, obviously, every job has an independent pool of attributes, but also, where only a proportion of the newly acquired attribute points are customizable.

Say you gain a rank on your R30 pug. You gain 1STR, 2DEX, 2VIT, 1MND, 0INT (you could earn 1 int every second rank) and 0PIE, + 1 point to spend in the attribute you like. This "bonus" point does not have to be earned at every rank. For example: automatic stat allocation until rank 10. R10-19: 1 bonus, allocatable point every 3rd rank, r20-30: 1 bonus point every 2nd rank etc. So by rank 30 you got 8 bonus points to spend where you like, which could be comparable to the bonus that you would get from quality gear.

In such a system you could have way less points overall, and less points to spend, so no need for allocating 2 attribute points in order to actually improve 1 attribute past 40 like it's the case currently. Also each point is supposed to be much more meaningful.

And this favors character development as you not only become stronger as you rank up, you gain more means to personalize your class by deciding where you allocate the bonus points. You should be able to reallocate them at will.

To replace the current phys rank they could grant players some bonus points according to certain requirements, like having another job at rank 30, then 50 (for example), and you could have a limit of bonus points obtainable from your other classes depending on the rank of the class you are currently playing.

Example: R1-10: max 1 additional bonus point coming from your other leveled classes
r10-15: max2
r16-20: max3
[...]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

I think pretty silly that people selected to manually add points, instead of the system automatically distributing them for you. Seriously, how many people are going to play a melee mage? Also how would this work with the jobs? Let's say I choose White Mage for my job and I join a party. My party members are going to assume that I placed most of my points in Intelligence or Peity, but instead I placed them in STR or DEX.

---

Your sig tells me you at least craft a little. Now imagine having the game put points in for you for any crafting or gathering job. Now you have all these random stat points that do you nothing when if you could distribute yourself, you could have all your points placed into the 2 stats that your class bases their main and off hand tools from.

I would rather be able to choose where my points will go instead of having them put into useless stats on particular classes. Going by that we get to pool points separately for each class, this is better than the current system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm assuming it'll be tied to that class and/or job. So, your THM 50 would have a completely different pool of points from your 23 PGL, for example.

---

This, assuming it's correct (which I believe it to be), highlights the need for the quick-change UI function they talked about, where it automatically changes our equipment, action bars, point allocation, etc. when we change jobs.

But that brings up a different question. What will they do with the point allocation cool-down timer once this is implemented?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

The key to this is making sure that every class/job has some use of every attribute. At the minute if you are a MRD you don't really have use of things like INT, PIE, MND so you just ram everything into STR, DEX and VIT. If they make certain abilities use modifiers from across a range of attributes then you can really be allowed to focus on customising your play style.

So for example with MRD you could a make certain weaponskill have a heavy INT modifier so you sacrifice stats in other area's to make sure that you could deliver that weaponskill better than a MRD who focused on different area's. So maybe you wouldn't hit as hard with normal attacks as the MRD stood next to you but when you deliver that weaponskill that you put INT into it would do a lot more DMG than someone who didn't.

I think something like that would be pretty cool.

---

That is actually a really good idea....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

I think pretty silly that people selected to manually add points, instead of the system automatically distributing them for you. Seriously, how many people are going to play a melee mage? Also how would this work with the jobs? Let's say I choose White Mage for my job and I join a party. My party members are going to assume that I placed most of my points in Intelligence or Peity, but instead I placed them in STR or DEX.

EDIT: Now I'm hoping that when you switch classes, whatever points you placed in your stats are saved for each class, but if they don't we'll have a lot of pissed off people. But if it doesn't then that solves my White Mage problem above, I can just change out my stats.

EDIT 2: Also if my stats are saved for each class, does that mean I can't change them anymore?

---

Why is is silly for wanting to be able to still pick your points on any given class? People don't want to be forced to be exactly the same as the next guy who is the same class/job as you. People enjoy options and the ability to expirment with the class they play by trying different abilities and allocating stats differently. I do understand your point of view but for me more options make the game more enjoyable and basically that is what it boils down to without going into the nitty gritty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sweetheart

While I’m happy with most Battle Reform Blueprint, one thing catches my eye.

And then in *Job he says:


Now my question is, how is this not going to force us to do many jobs, ranks for reasons like more attribute point’s and skills??

Dev’s answer with any explanation how this might work would be highly appreciated.

---

Forcing people to do jobs was a big mistake. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to do. I couldn't care less about playing every single class in the game. If i only want to play melee then that is what I'm going to do. If you only like mages play style then why would you want someone to force you to play a gladiator?

Playing the class you want and specializing that class into something that gives it a specific role, that's the right way to do things.

No more forcing, please.

You wasn't really forced before but if you wanted to make your character a certain way you had the options to level other classes. It was most effective if you did as well obviously, but noone made you do it. I think they partially made it that way because they knew that content would be lacking for awhile and to counter that they attempt to make you want to level other classes I am guessing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm assuming it'll be tied to that class and/or job. So, your THM 50 would have a completely different pool of points from your 23 PGL, for example.

---

I hope it is like this which means I can jump around classes, cuse right now its very very difficult to go from 50Conj to my 34 Arch when I sux ass!! and will sux even more come update. So I hope they do adjust it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by viion

I hope it is like this which means I can jump around classes, cuse right now its very very difficult to go from 50Conj to my 34 Arch when I sux ass!! and will sux even more come update. So I hope they do adjust it.

---

Many people say Attributes don't matter past a certain point anyway....
So right now going from 50conj to 34 Arch shouldn't gimp you that much

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sweetheart

Now my question is, how is this not going to force us to do many jobs, ranks for reasons like more attribute point’s and skills??

Dev’s answer with any explanation how this might work would be highly appreciated.

---

Jobs are specializations, which means no cross classing of skills. It's just like FFXI or FFIII or FFV, you don't HAVE to level any other job if you don't want to - It's helpful sure but you don't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikaree

Your sig tells me you at least craft a little. Now imagine having the game put points in for you for any crafting or gathering job. Now you have all these random stat points that do you nothing when if you could distribute yourself, you could have all your points placed into the 2 stats that your class bases their main and off hand tools from.

I would rather be able to choose where my points will go instead of having them put into useless stats on particular classes. Going by that we get to pool points separately for each class, this is better than the current system.

---

I assume with the automatic system, it would place your points in the best possible stats for that class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

Many people say Attributes don't matter past a certain point anyway....
So right now going from 50conj to 34 Arch shouldn't gimp you that much

---

When you've gone full out CONJ and then going to 34 arch and having base stats (14-16 for me) and I can only make it to about 45pts, yeh im pretty gimp :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Why is is silly for wanting to be able to still pick your points on any given class? People don't want to be forced to be exactly the same as the next guy who is the same class/job as you. People enjoy options and the ability to expirment with the class they play by trying different abilities and allocating stats differently. I do understand your point of view but for me more options make the game more enjoyable and basically that is what it boils down to without going into the nitty gritty.

---

Sorry, I was trying to say it in a less rude way. But I really do see people putting most of their points into the most optimal stat for their class. In the end, I see people being the same than different, but we'll see. I'm not completely against doing your own stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Sorry, I was trying to say it in a less rude way. But I really do see people putting most of their points into the most optimal stat for their class. In the end, I see people being the same than different, but we'll see. I'm not completely against doing your own stats.

---

While there'll definitely be a "cookie-cutter" build for many things, one thing to keep in mind is the Vitality stat.

Everybody likes HP, but not everyone needs a whole lot. We'll see if that changes in the dungeons, but the idea is that people can make their character as squishy or sturdy as they want.

For example:
A Marauder who dumps all of his points into strength and dex (assuming Dex is actually worth putting points into) will hit very hard and very accurately, but will have such awful HP that he runs the risk of dying if he pulls agro or stands in the fire (so to speak) even briefly.
A Marauder who dumps his points more evenly into strength, dex, and vit will be quite a bit sturdier, but won't do quite as much DPS. This allows for a bit more leeway when it comes to dodging dangerous AOE or pulling agro.
Lastly, a Marauder who puts a lot of points into Vitality will have enough HP to main tank, but his damage will suffer significantly.

Thus, customization. Sure there'll probably be a "good enough" point in Vitality, but it could also vary depending on gear, certain encounters, and your playstyle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

Jobs are specializations, which means no cross classing of skills. It's just like FFXI or FFIII or FFV, you don't HAVE to level any other job if you don't want to - It's helpful sure but you don't have to.

---

We don't know how exactly system will work, even if like you describe, what about class system?

In X Letter from the Producer, we do have now information:

Quote:

---

-NEW-
Shift to automated character development based on class rank, with optional attribute point allotment

---

I'm curious, If we get attribute point's when lvl up Class or Job, does player which have multiple high job's, classes, will be superior attributewise, to player with one high lvl rank, job?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sweetheart

This would be great, just switch class and u are rdy to go, same going 4 skills exept, extra ones slightly improving other classes maybe. Like that we wouldn’t be forced much, to do multiple classes, jobs, just the ones we like :)

---

That's exactly what it is. They are stripping Attribute points from Physical Level, throwing physical level out the door, and adding attribute points to each individual class...individually. The thing that caught my eye is they said that point allocation would be optional so I guess they are giving us an option to "auto-allot" if we pleased.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mack

That's exactly what it is. They are stripping Attribute points from Physical Level, throwing physical level out the door, and adding attribute points to each individual class...individually. The thing that caught my eye is they said that point allocation would be optional so I guess they are giving us an option to "auto-allot" if we pleased.

---

I realise that and hope it will be exactly like you say Mack, I'm just wonder if there will be any bonus attributes, for players with multiple classes, ranks. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sweetheart

I realise that and hope it will be exactly like you say Mack, I'm just wonder if there will be any bonus attributes, for players with multiple classes, ranks. :)

---

Ohh i see, well if I'm to guess I think bonus attributes will fall on equipment and the materia system but who knows.

I think it is pretty obvious that each class will have it's own set of stats and when you gain a rank you will be awarded some to assign how you see fit for that class. You switch class and then your stats will change to whatever you have them setup for on that class. As you rank that class you get more points.

Hopefully one the final level cap is out we will also get a merit point system to allow us to gain a few more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I think it is pretty obvious that each class will have it's own set of stats and when you gain a rank you will be awarded some to assign how you see fit for that class. You switch class and then your stats will change to whatever you have them setup for on that class. As you rank that class you get more points.

Hopefully one the final level cap is out we will also get a merit point system to allow us to gain a few more.

---

I HOPE so much it is like this, then I can switch from CONJ to Arch and have specific stat points for Arch and not have to worry about reassign, ofc i wont be overpowered with all my PL50 points but I wont need to change and little does more!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mack

The thing that caught my eye is they said that point allocation would be optional so I guess they are giving us an option to "auto-allot" if we pleased.

---

That's a good catch :D I'm very happy that they giving us that option, we'll have simply more depth in developing our characters.