Healer Role in Dungeons

Please can someone help me to understand the healer role in dungeons. I thought my job was to just heal my team members but I've been told twice now that I'm healing too much. However, if I don't keep on top of healing, the tank dies and then I get a load of abuse. I'm not sure when exactly I'm supposed to heal if not when it's needed and why I'm not supposed to keep everyone's health at 100%?
Any advice would be helpful, thanks.

If everyone were reasonably geared and skilled it sounds like you'd be fine. Since there's usually at least one or two bad players in the group, there are some things healers can and should do to compensate;

-Overhealing generates aggro. Generally, on trash and easy bosses I let the tank fall to 75% or so -- Learn how much you heal for, and let your target drop close to that many HPs before healing. Adjust according to how much damage the tank is taking and how quickly.
-DPS should take very little damage, so if you follow that same method you should rarely need to heal them.

If you find yourself standing around with nothing to do;

-Cast aero, and thunder on the target. Target of target macros work great.
-If there are two or more targets, that take some time to kill, and/or the tank is taking a lot of damage use repose on the second or third target.
-If there's a target that has to die quickly (bomb type mobs) and everyone's health is okay feel free to dps (stone II).

Use stoneskin more.

There is an absolutely HUGE laundry list of tanks out there that simply do not know how to keep hate on mob groups so if you spam heal, say, cure 1 you will take hate quite easily..

Also NEVER cast regen on tank while not fighting and NEVER stoneskin just before he is about to pull. THese will give you immediate hate.

All in all there are just a lot of terribad tanks out there that dont know how to do their role plain and simple and we need to be careful with our heals to prevent from gaining too much hate.. Its funny you are actually being blamed for their incompetence but it is what it is. Just wait till their health is 75% before tossing out heals and dont spam cure 2

My play style is this:
Keep the tank at or above 75%, though depending on my dungeon knowledge i may let them get rather low.
Keep the DPS topped off, this is extremely easy after 35 when you get regen.
Do the Cleric dance in between popping heals and keep my Aero up and my Stone II's pouring out.

I never get complaints.

Thanks! You've helped a lot :)

What works well is this: don't start healing until at least 3-4 seconds into the pull. Don't cast regen until about tank grabs hate on all the mobs. Cast stoneskin when last mob is almost dead and you wont walk into a ton of hate.

Spend the first few pulls to learn the tendencies of your tank. Figure out his/her Flash (for PLD) and Overpower (for WAR) timings. It's relatively safe to start healing after that. If your DPS gets hit don't panic, heal enough so the DPS don't get 1 shotted and let the tank work on grabbing the mobs back and then top off the DPS hp when you have a chance. If you pull aggro dont' panic either, healers are not that squishy in this game. Kite the mob back to your tank or u can fluid aura them. Communication with tank is key!

As long as you are not over healing, you shouldn't have to worry about pull aggro in main bosses unless they spawn adds. Most of your aggro should come from adds or trash mobs. Study the enmity gauge (the little vertical bar that appears on the party bar beside your class/job logo's when you target a mob on your enmity list). Also learn the colour representation of the mobs on your enmity list. If it's red the mob is on you, orange is be cautious.

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

"......
Also NEVER cast regen on tank while not fighting and NEVER stoneskin just before he is about to pull. THese will give you immediate hate.
....."

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I want to go more in depth with what you are advising, I hope you don't mind.

He says to never cast Regen on the Tank or Stoneskin right before a pull because 99.9% of the time, this happens:

Regen(Right before pull) > Tank Pulls > Regen Tick > *That Regen tick just put you at the top of the Threat meter of every add that comes with the pull* > *Cue Benny Hill music*

The same reasoning applies with casting Stoneskin right before a pull where the Stoneskin could be applied right after the pull which would put you at the top of the threat meter on the adds.

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Originally Posted by Evie91

Please can someone help me to understand the healer role in dungeons. I thought my job was to just heal my team members but I've been told twice now that I'm healing too much. However, if I don't keep on top of healing, the tank dies and then I get a load of abuse. I'm not sure when exactly I'm supposed to heal if not when it's needed and why I'm not supposed to keep everyone's health at 100%?
Any advice would be helpful, thanks.

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You can heal....but - your major role is to take the blame, it is in the small print when you agreed to take on the healer role.

Reducing the amount of hate you pull is a lot easier as you level higher.

Keep in mind...

AoE Heals (Medica) is a HUGE hate grabber. Don't use it UNLESS you absolutely have to (lots of people are taking consistent damage or you don't have time to heal people up individually).
Regen is a great way to heal someone without pulling a lot of hate. Use it on a DPS who took just one hit. Keep it rolling on the tank, but NEVER throw it on a tank before they make a pull (if it's a multi-pull and the tank doesn't grab hate right away, you could be pulling the adds).
Stoneskin is a good way to negate damage, but it isn't always mana-efficient. I like to throw it up on the tank when he's full to prevent more unnecessary heals. Throw it up on DPS when there is a lull in activity (before pulls, for example).
Wait until your cures are most 'mana-efficient' before you cast them. It's generally better to keep casting Cure I until you get a proc (Freecure) for Cure II UNLESS the tank is taking too much damage to keep up with Cure I. With that said, don't be shy about using heavier cures when it's needed.
Shroud of Saints is both a mana regen and an aggro drop. Use it wisely once you get it! Watch the aggro on the enemy bars (if you are approaching orange, you should probably use it).

If you are following the advice of everyone in this thread and are still pulling hate... the problem may be someone else. People like to point fingers when they ideally should be helping others learn. =/

the only healing advice I can give is:
-Take note of the healing order (tank/you/dd). The reason this is important is that if the tank dies, you get hate, and t hen it's usually all over.
-use your damage mitigation abilities. Stoneskin can make all the difference in a fight, so can regen.
-use cure 1 until you don't have a choice. Uses less mp and adds less hate, if you keep your mitigation up, you can almost nap through some fights.
-your DD's got hit? No problem! Regen! Don't use a cure on your DD's unless you have to, aoe heals are also situational. I fyou have lots of down time, just throw up regen on them. Less hate that way.
-don't overheal, healing past a target being full gives you obnoxious levels of hate.

Anyway, I hope that helps! Oh! Also, use shroud of saints when you have either 75% or 50% mp and proc it every time it's up.

I had this problem with a set up it was 2 BLM / War and myself on whm. The WAR was geared for the starting point of this dungeon run. So I can't really blame him, the mages didn't sleep and I understand some can't be slept.

If I kept him topped off I would gain a bit of hate, but he was going down like a brick with more than 2 mobs on him, this sounds bad..but what I had to do was maintain his HP at a certain %, problems were resolved. Though even topping him off during just a patrol mob was hard.

Mind you I did keep in the staples of healing, trying to proc that free cure / stoneskin / regen's / SoS for either hate down or need some extra MP rolling in.

I like to keep my Dots up, since aero is instant it just depends on the tank. Good ones I can switch stances, nuke / dot The Wall with pt and switch out, a quick medica II / Medica and I'm back in the game. Or sometimes I am able to toggle in and out with normal mobs.

It's all about judging what the ability of the tank can handle or do, and making sure the party adjusts to that. If he's doing something that's not a proper rotation we as healers, if we have the knowledge, should suggest another route of gaining hate. Or in my case ask the mages to sleep what they can, but when they can't made it a problem. Repose but does no good if you aoe everything. It's about making proper adjustments is all..but hard when someone doesn't listen.

Hello. My name is Rollan.

And I'm a Holy Addict.


Before pull, be sure to have stoneskins up between pulls, CLERIC STANCE... HOLY (aoe stun), then do it AGAIN! Throw another stoneskin on tank (watch for stoneskin buff to drop), rinse and repeat until you need to -cleric and toss regen/cure. But usually for something simple as AK speed run and WP speed runs go, I'm usually ok staying in cleric stance almost 70% of the time and just using stoneskin (don't have to take cleric stance off for this). The stuns from Holy REALLY help you to nuke and not be healing, especially if you can time your holy right so it can stun lock for a bit.

This speeds up our runs ALOT. Not to mention Holy is pretty addicting.

As far as endgame content goes... Be ready to always hit your Benediction and your Swiftcast when absolutely needed.
You need to learn how much damage your tank receives AS WELL AS how much your other healer is actually healing. Sometimes you need to adjust with different healing partners.

A lot of mistakes I see newbies make is trying to proc that Freecure too much, and missing a Cure II when the tank needs it.
But this isn't to say you shouldn't be using Cure 1! If you spam Cure II, YOU WILL RUN OF MP.

Beware of OVERHEALING! It's a killer!

Stop using Medica. That's normally the reason you pull threat at low levels.

At that level, neither you nor the other players have the full skill set required to more tactfully deal with the encounters. Therefore, you can very easily spam your skills and acquire aggro and get yourself into trouble--because the game mechanics are tricky.

Use stoneskin to generate less enmity. Use repose (28, I think), to lock down mobs the tank is not focused on. Black mages should have that skill early on, so if they're not using it--shame on them.

It gets easier around 30, but only if you are paying attention to your heals and using your toolkit. If you spam heals like no tomorrow, then you will run into some problems.

Well, try to think of it like this...no one likes to see a group member just standing around not doing anything while they wait to "do their job"; Likewise doing something like healing when it's not needed is equally as wasteful. Overhealing generates unnecessary hate (which forces the tank to work harder) and wastes mana (mana management is very important for healers...if they run out of mana the party usually dies). This goes for AoE healing as well, like using medica. Try to only use it when you know it'll land on most of the group and they'll get most of the benefit of it.

Some groups can be abusive regardless...even when the healer isn't finger fumbling. Don't take the criticisms to heart and always strive to do better. Remember, the option is always there for you to disband if people get irrational with you.

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Originally Posted by Rollan

Hello. My name is Rollan.

And I'm a Holy Addict.


Before pull, be sure to have stoneskins up between pulls, CLERIC STANCE... HOLY (aoe stun), then do it AGAIN! Throw another stoneskin on tank (watch for stoneskin buff to drop), rinse and repeat until you need to -cleric and toss regen/cure. But usually for something simple as AK speed run and WP speed runs go, I'm usually ok staying in cleric stance almost 70% of the time and just using stoneskin (don't have to take cleric stance off for this). The stuns from Holy REALLY help you to nuke and not be healing, especially if you can time your holy right so it can stun lock for a bit.

This speeds up our runs ALOT. Not to mention Holy is pretty addicting.

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Out of curiosity, are you (and especially the tank) outgearing these instances?

In my experience, trying to dps (beyond putting up Aero/Thunder on a boss or something) in cleric stance doesn't work in a typical WP/AK pug, even on trash. The tank takes too much damage for stoneskin and cleric-stance heals to keep them up, and the aoe damage from Holy (even out of cleric stance) will rip aggro on the second/third mobs. Also, Holy is -expensive- mana-wise. Dropping Holy on bosses is even worse -- aside from the mana concerns, it'll quickly make the boss stun-immune, and if the tank wants to stun a particularly damaging move, they won't be able to.

Believe me, I like the spell and would love to be able to spam it (especially when lots of adds need to be burst down) -- but even if I use it just once on a boss fight, it'll likely leave me low enough on mana that I won't be able to combat-rez someone who ate a one-shot boss mechanic. Using Holy twice in a boss fight means I won't be able to Cure2 the tank any more unless I get lucky with freecure procs. Etc.

You should be able to get away with a SS and a Regen and DPS. Like Rollan said I am in Cleric Stance far more then I heal. A WHM can put out about 150,000-175,000 damage easily in AK. I holy bomb groups of three or more, use Shroud when I need to back off and heal. If I am not at full MP I Aero stone the target mob along with rest of DPS trash and bosses. An AK run requires about 800,000 damage to complete so 20%ish of that is huge. If you looked at it from pure damage per second that's roughly 7 minutes of damage that would have to be made up by the other DPS. Come to think of it this applies to almost all content for me besides coil and phase 3+ of Titan. The thing you have to get out of your head is having the tank at 100% health all the time. I let them go all the way down until a Beny is required even and I keep Stone 2 things to death.

Just throwing this in because I think it might be helpful, but by default the T key (on PC anyway) switches your target to the "target of your target", so if you're on the tank, most of the time it'll switch your target to the mob everyone is fighting so you can quickly check your hate level/make sure you aren't getting too high and then press T again to switch back to the tank (assuming of course the mob is still targeted on the tank).

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Just throwing this in because I think it might be helpful, but by default the T key (on PC anyway) switches your target to the "target of your target", so if you're on the tank, most of the time it'll switch your target to the mob everyone is fighting so you can quickly check your hate level/make sure you aren't getting too high and then press T again to switch back to the tank (assuming of course the mob is still targeted on the tank).

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You can see your level of hate by looking to the left of your party frames. There's an Enemy Target Frame and it shows whether you're okay (Green), getting a bit too much Hate (Yellow), really need to watch yourself or have the tank swap to that add (Orange), or need to hit Shroud RIGHT NOW PLS CUZ YOU'RE TANKIN', BRO (Red).

You don't ever need to swap targets to watch your threat level.

Thanks for this info and that sounds pretty cool, if a little limited in precision, but where exactly is this "enemy target frame" please?

I have nothing changing colours anywhere that I've noticed, certainly nothing left of the party members list. Only time I ever see anything left of the party list is when I target the enemy and then I see the hate bars/order.

Edit: Nevermind, didn't realise you meant a different box and I turned that one off as I didn't see any use to it as I didn't know they changed colours! :D

Good to know though, although after being used to seeing the exact level of my hate I don't think I'll be turning it back on as it just sounds too vague, but thank you for the info!

If you are healing for a dungeon and you are being blamed for wipes and other fails, there is one important thing you should remember...you are the healer...you don't need to take their crap!

Good healers are hard to find and good healers don't need to take the crap from any noob group who loves to blame them for their own mistakes. However, if a group is blaming you, you should look at the circumstances objectively and discover if you truly are doing something wrong or not. If you can find compelling evidence that you are doing everything you are supposed to be doing and yet things are still going pear shaped, there is a good chance that it's the deepz or the tank that are fudging things up.

So don't be afraid to ditch a group in the middle of a run IF (and only IF) they are giving you crap for their own mistakes, it's not hard for good healers to get good groups to run dungeons with them.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

You can heal....but - your major role is to take the blame, it is in the small print when you agreed to take on the healer role.

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Since time immemorial and even after the sea swallowed all, it's been the Healer's fault.

Goddamnit, I screwed up when the tank couldn't hold aggro! It's my fault the DPS spam-facerolled their AoE's!

I also find sometimes it is the Healers role to be "Mum". In between battles, and before bosses, if there is someone new in the run; Tank gives the low down, and I sometimes give the fluffy stuff the tank sometimes forgets about for the DPS. :)
Things like "we'll get poisoned. Come to me if you're in trouble do and I will esuna", or "this one is long and hard, use a potion if you see i can't help you immediately".
Everyone loves their mum...I even got someone use a Ether on me once during a tough time (or something to up my MP)! Bless.
Be carefull out there, children! :)

In Dungeons, your role is to DPS and Heal. In Raids, just Heal.