Armoury System is Broken

I have noticed that when you unlock a job nobody ever goes back to their class. The whole system should be redone with the removal of all classes and just keep the jobs. They should then bring back the sub job system which makes more sense then what they have now.

I agree, the armoury system in it's current form is the remnants of a broken system. They should have just got rid of Classes while they had the chance or kill the Class at 30 when you unlock your Job, which they could have easily done but have now gone and buggered that up by letting Arcanist unlock both Scholar and Summoner.

They could have let the class end at 30 and then you level your Job after that which would have meant you could level Summoner and Scholar independently. As it is now if any other "Classes" get secondary Jobs attached to them most people will be an instant level 50 in that Job and breeze through the few sidequest you have to do to unlock the skills.

I think it was pretty stupid of SE to let this happen and I'm sure it will cause them headaches down the line.

It's situational, in some cases you need the flexibility of the armory classes instead of job to clear something.

1.0's Riven Road Hard (Nael Van Darnus Hard) would be the best example of this situation.

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

It's situational, in some cases you need the flexibility of the armory classes instead of job to clear something.

1.0's Riven Road Hard (Nael Van Darnus Hard) would be the best example of this situation.

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But is there any situation in ARR where an example could be given?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

But is there any situation in ARR where an example could be given?

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Well ARR hardly has the challenging content where flexibility has the advantage.(yet)

Maybe PvP.

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

Well ARR hardly has the challenging content where flexibility has the advantage.(yet)

Maybe PvP.

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So the answer is no? 1.0 was built from the ground up for the armoury system with a Job system tacked on top of a shaky foundation. ARR is not, so why implement it?

All it will do long term is give SE headaches because instead of having to balance content for just the Jobs they will also have to consider possible Class combo's to. It does seem as though SE's way of dealing with that though is to just make Job superior that way they don't have to worry about people using Classes. Which if thats the case why do we still have them?

This situation with SCH/SMN being levelled off the same Class really irks me though as I personally can't wait and hope DRK gets implemented at some point and I would hate for it to come off LNC or something and I only have to do a few quests to be a Level 50 DRK.

Fine with Class > Job advancement, not fine with subjobs.

Subjobs were one of the worst parts of XI. They made every DD feel generic and samey.

Every DD in this game feels more Generic and samey then ff11 ever did.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

Fine with Class > Job advancement, not fine with subjobs.

Subjobs were one of the worst parts of XI. They made every DD feel generic and samey.

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Subjobs made playing a DD job different /war /nin /sam lots of different set ups so you could be different. FFXIV at some point everyone is going to be the same nothing to set us apart from one another.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

Fine with Class > Job advancement, not fine with subjobs.

Subjobs were one of the worst parts of XI. They made every DD feel generic and samey.

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I do kind of agree with this, while I did overall like the subjob system from FFXI as you could have some great and varied combo's, I do not want a repeat of /NIN please. I think the idea of subjob is fine just don't a give a class/job a skill that make everyone demand you use it. Like I said earlier I used to love playing DRK and using a variety of subjobs like /SAM for the WS bonanza or /WAR for procs on double attack and buffs to put out silly high number WS's, if I went out soling I could use /DNC for some extra cures. I did however hate it whenever I would get a party and then get told please go /NIN :-(

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

But is there any situation in ARR where an example could be given?

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THM is by far the better soloer to BLM in the field and has all the cnj defensive spells the blm does not. es blm can blast the crap out of things but the closer you get to the limit with which you can win a battle the more the defenses become important over the DPS difference since when you are on a razors edge fight you are not one-2-3 hit killing even with the max BLM can put out which means you need to survive long enough to actually kill the target.

Is there anything in this game worth soloing that isn't pathetically weak and easy to solo?

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Originally Posted by Valente

Is there anything in this game worth soloing that isn't pathetically weak and easy to solo?

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fate bosses for one.

take on the "Four winds" solo some time come back and tell me thats not a challenge!

Then give BLM Drain as one of its spells instead of its more useless ones.

Nothing in this game is worth soloing hence making classes useless in my opinion.

in my opinion this is not sustainable. its bad buisiness in the future if they add new jobs that branch off current classes and people are lvl 50 on it on day one. jobs are also currently limited to only 5 abilities.

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Originally Posted by Jre418

Nothing in this game is worth soloing hence making classes useless in my opinion.

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Worth soloing is in the eye of the soloer.

there are many fates the masses never touch and happen to be really fun fights. do you get great xp for it? NO but you do walk away knowin you just kicked the ass of something they expected a team to kill.

Sorry to be off topic but a comment here reminded me of the best ever FFXI job combination. WAR/WHM... Now please stop throwing those rocks at me :)

Unfortunately i have nothing else to offer to this thread. Sorry bout that.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

They could have let the class end at 30 and then you level your Job after that which would have meant you could level Summoner and Scholar independently. As it is now if any other "Classes" get secondary Jobs attached to them most people will be an instant level 50 in that Job and breeze through the few sidequest you have to do to unlock the skills.

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This is my only gripe with the current system. I'd hope they'll eventually change it so that jobs level independently from the class it's attached to.

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Originally Posted by CatofNineTails

Worth soloing is in the eye of the soloer.

there are many fates the masses never touch and happen to be really fun fights. do you get great xp for it? NO but you do walk away knowin you just kicked the ass of something they expected a team to kill.

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See thats great if you want to try and push the boundaries of what can and can't be done solo, however I do not feel like it this is a reason for keeping Classes as if Classes did not exist then you could still try and push those boundaries, you just might find the limits in a different place.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

Sorry to be off topic but a comment here reminded me of the best ever FFXI job combination. WAR/WHM... Now please stop throwing those rocks at me :)

Unfortunately i have nothing else to offer to this thread. Sorry bout that.

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Haha while I was replying earlier about the subjob system I was going to bring up the "Ghetto Paladin" as lets face it you all tried it at some point ^^

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Haha while I was replying earlier about the subjob system I was going to bring up the "Ghetto Paladin" as lets face it you all tried it at some point ^^

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Oh geeze, I remember back when they were called 'Buttersheep', not that I can remember why.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Haha while I was replying earlier about the subjob system I was going to bring up the "Ghetto Paladin" as lets face it you all tried it at some point ^^

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That, SAM/WAR, and BLU/WAR. Worked surprisingly well back in the Valkurm days, all things considered.

.../cringe NIN/WAR.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Oh geeze, I remember back when they were called 'Buttersheep', not that I can remember why.

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Because you were a mad sheep. You could have chosen an elephant as a subjob or even a shark but you chose to be the butterfly or something like that lol

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Originally Posted by Jre418

I have noticed that when you unlock a job nobody ever goes back to their class. The whole system should be redone with the removal of all classes and just keep the jobs. They should then bring back the sub job system which makes more sense then what they have now.

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You really do want this game to be FFXI 2.0 don't you? I admit I miss old FFXI as much as the next game, but this is a different game.

Now while having a variety of subjobs was pretty fun (when it existed; half the time there was always the preferred subjob), leveling the subjob to 37 was the MOST SOUL-CRUSHINGLY BORING THING TO DO EVER. You had to spend ages leveling a job you might not like, through the areas you hated leveling in... dunes, garlaige shitadel, etc. I didn't want to play NIN, but I had to level it for a subjob.

I agree, classes seem utterly useless at this point in the game. Granted the game did just get re-released recently. But the way things are looking in the foreseeable future jobs will remain the dominant way to play.

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

Well ARR hardly has the challenging content where flexibility has the advantage.(yet)

Maybe PvP.

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Pretty sure Coil turn 5 boss is harder than Nael hard

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Originally Posted by Jre418

removal of all classes.

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https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...xEVk/photo.jpg

He's saying what were all thinking!

I would hate a subjob system in XIV.

You think /NIN was bad? Every magic class would be all but forced to sub BLM because of the massive MP refresh given by Umbral Ice. Encounter difficulty might as well go out the window at that point, when MP costs no longer matter because one quick Blizzard I will recover a massive chunk of your spent MP over it's duration.

EDIT: Saying this from the perspective of a WHM.

I love the "armor system", quit being a bully! It's good for soloing.

There's nothing broken about it, it's working as intended.

Classes are fine and jobs have their place too.

I don't always use my job and class allows you to combine abilities. Jobs give you specific abilities to compensate for your role.
There's no misunderstanding where the balance is here. Job don't use every class abilities or it would be over-powered.

People keep forgwetting what jobs actually are. It's a further specialization of your main class. Subjobs? That's why you need to level another class to lv 15 in order to be able to get your job. And subjobs are somewhat there too, with the actions you use from other classes.
Why is this forum full of whiners?

Classes keep the jobs in a general category. Who cares about the class itself? It's meant to be as arbitrary as the titles DoW or DoM.
When more jobs are added within the classes, you won't need to level a whole new class. You'd just have to start off with the job.

The requirements to unlock the job itself would be greatly simplified since those requirements are based on the general class rather than the job.
Same for the cross class skills which will get VERY bloated as we start getting all the old jobs. This keeps cross class skills in order even when we get tons of jobs.
It could use some refinement, but I don't see a design problem.

I very much disagree with this post. The subjob system in ffxi was not being utilized as much as it could have, sure there was an off player here or there who were doing good combinations, I soloed most of my Melee jobs to near max levels just using /dnc, who needs weapon skills or parties when you can just run mob to mob healing endlessly. Anyway. I think the way they have implemented the scholar and summoner into the same class is very interesting, even if Scholar is very overpowered atm, Cleric Stance, what do you know. I hope they don't change the system simply because people do not want to experiment with it. SCH has a very high DPS, and handpicking gear for certain stats can make them crazy DPS.

Recently found out that Lancers have higher damage output potential than dragoons with some set-up, not sure on the why's or hows, whether it is gear options or additional ability slot or additional ability selection. Simply because you have never taken off your Job crystal doesn't mean the may not be a good reason not to. I am very interested to see how they add more jobs to the current classes, someone recently told me that they confirmed it won't happen (not sure if I believe them), but the gladiator has a sword main hand, what if in his new job they change the off hand option to another sword, Ninja maybe?(And no, I do NOT mean as tank, I do not want this to happen again). Maybe it comes with an ability that when activated, converts enmity into damage to clear it? a sort of reverse threat engine? These sort of deep mechanics are very interesting to me, especially seeing how they turned a dps class into a dps/support job(but mostly dps, just calling it support because it DOES rez and has a heal, debuffs healing and slows monsters) and also a healing job that uses shields and mitigation. The system has a lot of intricacies to it that aren't being explored and I hope they keep on giving out toys that can simply be banged against the wall for the many, or broken apart and examined to make amazing for the few, allowing both player types to be successful.

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Originally Posted by Jre418

I have noticed that when you unlock a job nobody ever goes back to their class. The whole system should be redone with the removal of all classes and just keep the jobs. They should then bring back the sub job system which makes more sense then what they have now.

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Agreed, the system is broken. Right now classes are just training-wheels versions of the full job. I've yet to have a reason to ever go back to a class, despite claims of classes being more well-rounded. So, while I don't agree that they should be done away with, it would be nice to see a bit more of a carrot there for playing your base class aside from paltry perks like "you can add out-of-battle raise to your extra slot."

Also, the tying of extra stats to the base class exacerbates the broken nature of the armory system, excluding many would-be healers from an already DPS-heavy system. Tying these stats to the job itself for customization is fine, but tying it to the base class only precludes players from playing additional jobs, which was the purpose of the armory system in the first place.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

This situation with SCH/SMN being levelled off the same Class really irks me though as I personally can't wait and hope DRK gets implemented at some point and I would hate for it to come off LNC or something and I only have to do a few quests to be a Level 50 DRK.

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Right there with you. Early on I thought DK might come from Gladiator, now that I'm entering the endgame I really don't want it to happen that way. I want to have my Paladin and Dark Knight but I don't want to just get a lv50 DK as soon as it drops, seems like its to easy. Also if its a DPS its going to suck for me to switch back and forth with all those bonus VIT points I got.

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Originally Posted by Jre418

I have noticed that when you unlock a job nobody ever goes back to their class. ...

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

Agreed, the system is broken. Right now classes are just training-wheels versions of the full job. I've yet to have a reason to ever go back to a class, despite claims of classes being more well-rounded. So, while I don't agree that they should be done away with, it would be nice to see a bit more of a carrot there for playing your base class aside from paltry perks ...

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I have noticed that some of my actions for the classes I had at 50 were missing. Maybe because they introduce you to certain skills and abilities during the class quest most people ignore(unless you do them for the job quest). It's impossible to skip class quest to receive the job.
There's a purpose for classes and it's not going away.