Is threat # an indicator of damage output?

This is what I saw in Titan:
x
x
Monk -2
BLM -4
x
DRG -3
Bard -6
SMN -5

Is the monk doing the most damage?

A few of the classes can use quelling strikes, which lessens enmity gain, so you can't rely on threat to see top dps.

I'm fairly certain Bards have higher enmity than other dps too :S

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Originally Posted by RonPierce

I'm fairly certain Bards have higher enmity than other dps too :S

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I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe this.

The BRD or BLM may or may not be using quelling strikes to reduce their enmity. Other than that, its generally an indicator of DPS.

Generally, yes.


Don't take any single example, though. There's many variables, such as Quelling Strikes, and Eye for an Eye(which generates enmity). It will be fairly accurate for MNK/DRG.


If you run with the same group, take note of the positions every run. If people are generally in the same positions, you can make an informed guess as to who is playing properly.

no, it's not. Some abilities do more enmity than others.

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Originally Posted by coffeerox

no, it's not. Some abilities do more enmity than others.

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This hasn't been proven.

As far as we know, 2 100 potency attacks will provide the same enmity unless stated otherwise(like the modifiers for WAR/PLD).

It is NOT a good indicator at all.
Monks have no threat drop
Bards and lancers (as well as conj) do
Buffs generate threat, so classes who buff more often will generate more threat
For whatever crazy reason bards in general generate more threat (keep preaching that if you want kevee, but im sure many of us have tested it. my GF's bard doing her rotation with a weaker bow (for the sake of the test) doing 100 dps generates more agro than my dragoon doing 175 dps)

dragoon's threat drop cuts their threat in half it's current value.

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#Enmity

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Originally Posted by xyaie

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-BRDs and DRGs shouldn't use it if they don't need to. Also, BLM and SMN have access to Quelling Strikes. I am not denying this.
-This has not been proven besides on tanking buffs(which were the only ones used in the testing). For my SMN, it seems only buffs casted on others generates enmity. Casting Eye for an Eye increases my enmity, whereas Raging Strikes does not.


It is a fairly good indicator when you don't use enmity dropping abilities, which you shouldn't unless you actually need to use them. It's the most accurate thing we have right now. Go run some CM and have people not use enmity dropping abilities.

Edit:

And blitzball even states that 1 damage enmity is 1 damage enmity, unless there are modifiers.

yes, we know 1 damage is 1 emnity, but it is incorrect to think thats all that goes into it. I have no reason to believe that a full thrust and a random archer shot will generate different ratios of emnity to damage, however i can tell you that popping cooldowns such as blood for blood for me does generate agro. You looked at the link i gave to cite the part 1 emnity to 1 damage but then deny what he said about buffs?

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"There is actually a third type enmity generation: Buffing Enmity. Every action that produces a buffing icon appears to generate Enmity. This Enmity value appears to be a flat +70 Damage Enmity in terms of equivalency. This would include actions like Regen, Stoneskin, Shield Oath, Sword Oath, Defiance, and many others. While not all actions were tested, every buffing action that was tested produced the same Enmity generation regardless of class or job. Additionally, in a manner similar to Healing Enmity, the +70 value is divided if multiple enemies are engaged. With this in mind, it is my current belief that all buffing actions produce a universal, flat +70 Damage Enmity generation.

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If a monk and dragoon dont pop any buffs and dont use any threat drops, spending 100% up time on a boss, then yes the threat meter would be a remotely decent way of telling damage.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

It is a fairly good indicator when you don't use enmity dropping abilities, which you shouldn't unless you actually need to use them.

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Quelling strikes does not "drop" enmity, so if you are already getting agro its too late. What it does is limit the hate you gain on your next strikes. So you have to use it before you NEED it.

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Originally Posted by xyaie

If a monk and dragoon dont pop any buffs and dont use any threat drops, spending 100% up time on a boss, then yes the threat meter would be a remotely decent way of telling damage.

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"not all actions were tested."

They tested the tank buffs, and actions casted on others.

Nothing, at all, mentions DPS cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by svann

Quelling strikes does not "drop" enmity, so if you are already getting agro its too late. What it does is limit the hate you gain on your next strikes. So you have to use it before you NEED it.

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Needing does not necessitate an immediate or reactionary use. If you know you'll pull aggro, before the fight starts, you know you need to use Quelling Strikes.

It says and many others. Ive personally tested others myself and my findings disagree with yours. Heading into work now so gonna agree to disagree. its up to op what they decide to believe, you or every other poster on the thread. Im fine either way

A BRD 700crit+150 auto attack generates more threat than my BLM's 2700 flare crit. Explain that one for me, then.

Your threat is weighted by your class. Possibly by your armor type, with heavier armors generating more threat.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

A BRD 700crit+150 auto attack generates more threat than my BLM's 2700 flare crit. Explain that one for me, then.

Your threat is weighted by your class. Possibly by your armor type, with heavier armors generating more threat.

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At what point in combat was this? At the start? Did the BRD have songs running? Did he use CDs? What?

That second claim needs data to back it up. A lot -- Otherwise why, as a SMN, am I primarily #2, or 3, behind an off tank?

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Originally Posted by xyaie

It says and many others. Ive personally tested others myself and my findings disagree with yours. Heading into work now so gonna agree to disagree. its up to op what they decide to believe, you or every other poster on the thread. Im fine either way

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If you've personally tested it, that's fine.

All I've said in this thread is that proper testing hasn't been done. No sources have been posted about it, and no thorough research into the enmity mechanics besides tanking/healing.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Needing does not necessitate an immediate or reactionary use. If you know you'll pull aggro, before the fight starts, you know you need to use Quelling Strikes.

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Right, so the enmity meter is not accurate since bards dont get to the top since they use QS so they wont. (or they should. I do forget to sometimes)

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Originally Posted by svann

Right, so the enmity meter is not accurate since bards dont get to the top since they use QS so they wont. (or they should. I do forget to sometimes)

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That's not how it works.

And you shouldn't be using it unless you need to use it.


To elabroate; The threat meter has to function, or be accurate, otherwise essential functions(such as tank swapping) would not work. That's how Provoke works - It puts you at the top of the threat meter +1. That's why tank swapping is such a delicate maneuver.

If you've done Turn 2, you know your tanks have to work it out with each other.

An outside factor, that is completely user-controlled, does not make the system inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

A BRD 700crit+150 auto attack generates more threat than my BLM's 2700 flare crit. Explain that one for me, then.

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Explain to me how he crit for 700 on an ability while keeping his auto attack at 150.