For the Love of god S.E

Reading the hot fix details got me a little Worried,
yeah more Philo and myth and ways to obtain is amazing but lets not just give them to people for nothing,

Difficulty in the level 50 dungeons PLEASE PLEASE let that be it will be increased and not nerfed this game's end game as it stands is somewhat challenging and fun and in my opinion do not want to see it dumbed down.

So let me get this right: you had an easy lap to your point, and you want the accrual of items to become harder for players like me, and you want the dungeons to become harder (which will restrict players like me who are not yet up to speed)?

That sounds like a great plan!

PS: I have heard people have yet to clear all of the content. I mean, if no one has downed the current content, then why bother messing with difficulty levels?

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Originally Posted by Angiris

AK/WP is challenging? You can clear AK in 15 minutes if you skip the first floor, or 22-24 minutes if you don't skip it.

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I think the ability to 'skip' half the trash in the dungeon is what will get fixed, but only time will tell.

Making stuff like AK harder for geared people isn't going to benefit those fresh 50s in AF. A far better option would be to take one of the under utilised dungeons like Qarn and readjust it into something more suited for people working on Coil. Otherwise I don't think things are really as bad as some people like to suggest. My only other gripe is that the Myth cap is perhaps a little too low but meh, I appreciate why it's set where it is.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I think the ability to 'skip' half the trash in the dungeon is what will get fixed, but only time will tell.

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It wont make it more challenging though.

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Originally Posted by PoiPoiKuroi

It wont make it more challenging though.

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Tell that to the people who QQ'd about speed runners.

for the love of god? in Final Fantasy series, gods always ended up being the one who screwing everything up.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...93/590/6f6.gif

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Originally Posted by Xensai

Difficulty in the level 50 dungeons PLEASE PLEASE let that be it will be increased and not nerfed this game's end game as it stands is somewhat challenging and fun and in my opinion do not want to see it dumbed down.

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What is difficulty? Currently it's measured in Equipment levels. So increasing difficulty would mean the people have to be better equipped. This would nothing more than add fuel to the flames for the miserable situation this Game currently has, with people flaming and killing each other because of their Equip. In my eyes this wouldn't help.

HArder will break the game.

Two things need to be fixed. Dungeon and story progression, GC Progression requirements, and the clueless elites that set requirements for CM, Prae and AK higher then is needed (perhaps due to lack of their own skill).

To get a base level 50 GC weapon, you need to complete the story, complete AK, and due rank 2 hunting logs. It can be difficult to run AK iwith arrogant players to complete the base dungeon. Mainly because some are clueless and rely on higher armor to complete it. Other wise a different dungeon need to be assigned to that GC rank up.

There are balancing issues. THe thing is the casual player is the majority and SE needs to make sure they are retained. Perhaps have more hard version dungeons with higher payouts on tomes for those set on it.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

HArder will break the game.

Two things need to be fixed. Dungeon and story progression, GC Progression requirements, and the clueless elites that set requirements for CM, Prae and AK higher then is needed (perhaps due to lack of their own skill).

To get a base level 50 GC weapon, you need to complete the story, complete AK, and due rank 2 hunting logs. It can be difficult to run AK iwith arrogant players to complete the base dungeon. Mainly because some are clueless and rely on higher armor to complete it. Other wise a different dungeon need to be assigned to that GC rank up.

There are balancing issues. THe thing is the casual player is the majority and SE needs to make sure they are retained. Perhaps have more hard version dungeons with higher payouts on tomes for those set on it.

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I ran AK twice in duty finder in my AF gear, nobody said anything. I ran AK 4 times today in mixed AF/AK gear, nobody said anything.

Just have a reason for players that have been beating the game to death or done a lot of the stuff in the game. Go back and do some the older content as a option to get some the better gear stronger for adds to there item level 55+ gears. Instead of having people one time it or skip some of the dungeons. There is no incline to play or go back to and play the old content no more, Even if they create new characters you just fate exp it the 50's.

Example: need 4 pieces of pink gear lv15-30 , and then turn it into a npc with your higher level gear and get a extra point added to it. up to 5 total points mix or match and not work on the item level system be like a merit. and will not show up the stats that you put on to your gear. with this systems just show that you did make adjustment so people not so anal on perfect sets of gear.

Where are the patch notes? can't seem to find them.

SE should leave the overall difficulty of CM, WP and AK unchanged. You have to have a base starting point for new level 50 players to jump into end game content. Together with Ifrit HM, these 3 dungeons are where you do that.

Instead of just saying we are going to make these dungeons drop more tomestones, or adding mythology tomestones to CM and WP, but in order to do so we have to raise the difficulty, why not add bonuses that will give additional tomestones. How about adding a bonus of 10 tomestones for opening all chests in a dungeon? Maybe adding 20 tomestones for killing every monster in the dungeon. You could add a 10 tomestone bonus for clearing a dungeon without any deaths. There are ways to make the content more rewarding and making them be completed how SE intended them to be completed without raising the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by FraenirVolsung

....... How about adding a bonus of 10 tomestones for opening all chests in a dungeon? Maybe adding 20 tomestones for killing every monster in the dungeon. You could add a 10 tomestone bonus for clearing a dungeon without any deaths. There are ways to make the content more rewarding and making them be completed how SE intended them to be completed without raising the difficulty.

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I completely agree with the addition of tomestones for killing all the mobs, opening all the chests, etc but I'd be against tomes for speed and no deaths, this could lead to issues in some groups. I could see some DFs that wouldn't want newbies in their group since they could have a higher risk of dying and causing the group to miss out on 10 tomes, or someone still in AF gear not doing X dps and slowing them down. I definitely like the idea and concept though!

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Originally Posted by FraenirVolsung

You could add a 10 tomestone bonus for clearing a dungeon without any deaths

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Enjoy having to wait for new PT members to join your instance in progress, every time someone dies or because the group wiped once. ( As an example, theres is always 1 or 2 distracted morons not paying attention to AOEs on CM who will end up dieing)

The amount of ragequitters is already too high, having this will only add more.

PS: I never ragequit in dungeons but i'll be honest.
This is the thing that could start making me, especially if the "No deaths" reward is bigger than 10 Tomestones.

Likely it will be implimenting ECHO after a few wipes...

It's possible they plan to do this.

Because of how WP and AK are setup atm they have similar difficulty where they only "DPS" check is the wall, but the wall is easy enough to kill if you go all out on dmg, from there the rest of the run is cake. WP is overlooked because it only offers item lv 55 gear and no mytho whereas AK offers item lv 60 gear and mytho.

What they might have in mind is this.

Increase difficulty of WP to be on par with AK difficulty, adding the 40 mytho reward to WP and then changing the difficulty of AK in which the mininum amount a player should have on hand to get through AK is item lv 55 gear. Then by doing this they may increase the amount of tomes earned in AK by double or maybe just 20-30 to make it the more profitable option, but also tougher one to go through.

However by at least doing it like this players would now have 2 option to get mytho and WP would actually be a dungeon worth doing, where as it stands now it's just not worth the time of day given that you can easily farm tomes via CM/P to earn item lv 70 gear and then use said item lv 70 gear to farm AK for mytho.

With the above guess as to what they might do, this simple change would create more viable options to obtaining tomes compared to how it is now.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Making stuff like AK harder for geared people isn't going to benefit those fresh 50s in AF.

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I'm pretty sure that's the point. They probably want people to gear up a bit in WP before hand, not skip it entirely.

I hope they buff the difficulty in AK. Getting high level gear like that from mythology tomes should be earned not given out like candy.

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

So let me get this right: you had an easy lap to your point, and you want the accrual of items to become harder for players like me, and you want the dungeons to become harder (which will restrict players like me who are not yet up to speed)?

That sounds like a great plan!

PS: I have heard people have yet to clear all of the content. I mean, if no one has downed the current content, then why bother messing with difficulty levels?

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the current content up to coil turn 4 is extremly easy at it is, exluding turn 5.
also need to remeber there is content to make coil easier which is not out yet (Crystal Tower) and even without this content coil turn 1-4 easy just like titan you dont need to be pro you need to learn to be a team and dodge

yes we might be undergeared for coil becouse that what crystal tower is for when it comes out but doesnt mean it cant be doen with practice

How much easier does it have to be? I am taking it most of you never played 11 where some bosses took hours to take down. The whole point of the game is to be challenging but instead, most of you people whine about how hard it is. Why, because you do not want to have to work at it and you want everything handed to you. If you need things to be easy then go play Barbie Fashion Designer. This game is already entirely too easy. They need to make it 10 times harder to make it challenging.

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Originally Posted by AzNheadbanger

I hope they buff the difficulty in AK. Getting high level gear like that from mythology tomes should be earned not given out like candy.

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Exactly. GW2 was too easy and so was Secret World which made them a turn off after 3 weeks. The same thing is happening here, it is too easy to get the top of the line gear. Make people actually have to earn it.

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Originally Posted by HongKongPhoo

Exactly. GW2 was too easy and so was Secret World which made them a turn off after 3 weeks. The same thing is happening here, it is too easy to get the top of the line gear. Make people actually have to earn it.

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The ease of the content is the whole root of "there's no end game content" complaint we always see with every new MMO. People today say that WoW didn't have much end game content early on but it had Blackrock Depths, Scholomance, UBRS, Onyxia, and Molten Core. Those dungeons and two raids offered more content than nearly this whole game combined.

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Originally Posted by HongKongPhoo

stuff

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Sadly, thats how gamers are these days, they expect to start a mmo, hit cap and get the best gear in a week or two. I don't see why someone who plays 1-2 hours a day, should be able to get the same gear (at the same time at least) as someone who puts in 10+ hours a day. :/ I agree that it needs to be a bit harder, maybe then people would pay attention and know how to dodge AoEs and stuff.

There'd probably also be less shouts for "relic only" if it was harder to obtain, because let's be honest, if you have a decent pt who knows what they're doing, you can start a relic and get it done within ~5 hours, where's the fun in that? Speaking of those relic only shouts that seem to be popping up for everything now, it kind of sucks for those who get unlucky on Titan and get people who can't dodge or don't pay attention.

It's not as special to get DL or relic/af2 (whatever you want to call it, it's both) only to see everyone else has it too

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Originally Posted by HongKongPhoo

How much easier does it have to be? I am taking it most of you never played 11 where some bosses took hours to take down. The whole point of the game is to be challenging but instead, most of you people whine about how hard it is. Why, because you do not want to have to work at it and you want everything handed to you. If you need things to be easy then go play Barbie Fashion Designer. This game is already entirely too easy. They need to make it 10 times harder to make it challenging.

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I'm sorry, what part of running in a circle while watching TV, or idly pressing one of your keys over and over was difficult in FFXI? Are we to assume that Alterac Valley in vanilla WoW was the hardest content because it took 48 hrs to complete?

I agree this game is too easy, but players too readily confuse "Grind" and "Hard", something can be slow and incredibly easy... So lets look at an example from WoW (OMG NOES I AM THE ANTICHRIST), Heroic Ragnaros during Cataclysm/Firelands. How hard was this fight? So hard that before it was nerfed under 100 guilds had killed it, the fight was then further nerfed, totaling around a 60% HP reduction along with some damage adjustments, was the content unbeatable? No, was it initially, possibly slightly overtuned? Possibly, but people did beat it? Was it hard, hell yes it was.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Sadly, thats how gamers are these days, they expect to start a mmo, hit cap and get the best gear in a week or two. I don't see why someone who plays 1-2 hours a day, should be able to get the same gear (at the same time at least) as someone who puts in 10+ hours a day.

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If we're talking token gear, why not? The fact of the matter is Darklight/Myth tier is token gear, Relic is essentially a class quest reward, these things are starting gear everyone is supposed to be able to get because you're supposed to have it to start the actual endgame (Coil), now the fact of the matter is Coil turn 5 is either very difficult, or just plain overtuned, this is fairly evident from the fact that people aren't killing it.

All there doing is increasing the dungeon length and increasing the tomes I think.

there are three glaring problems with the game as is.

1) the DOH need a retarded number of dungeon bought items to create the 2 star items (this was lazy lack of thinking on devs part) to make one attempt at a level 70 item you need to create two materials which EACH take 9 items bought with tombs. wounder why the market has barely any entries for the finished products in history (not simply none in stock)

2) The GC requirement to promote to officer rank being Linked to Amdapor Keep doesn't make any sense at all. no more so than every NPC treating you as their personal slave in quest line after you have been recruited as a hero who's defeated what the npc's couldn't. If you are running AK the items you could buy with seals are inferior and not at the right level of progression for the dungeon.


3) Fates do not accurately encompass the areas of the battles nor do they reflect the levels of participation correctly (when you can fight a NM fate from first strike to near death but need to change targets to deal with the fate adds and get a bronze standing the mechanics are faulty) the areas when synched do not encompass the fights either so you can repeatedly be expelled from the synched fate region by the NM if they use knock back and your progression is wiped clear.

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Originally Posted by Tenkiei

now the fact of the matter is Coil turn 5 is either very difficult, or just plain overtuned, this is fairly evident from the fact that people aren't killing it.

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Because SE said that Crystal Tower was meant to come before Coil, in terms of endgame progression, but it got pushed back. So people weren't even meant to get that far into Coil yet, which makes me wonder how easy CT is going to be.

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Originally Posted by Xensai

Reading the hot fix details got me a little Worried,
yeah more Philo and myth and ways to obtain is amazing but lets not just give them to people for nothing,

Difficulty in the level 50 dungeons PLEASE PLEASE let that be it will be increased and not nerfed this game's end game as it stands is somewhat challenging and fun and in my opinion do not want to see it dumbed down.

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I beg to differ

The way this game is heading they are just going to hand everything to everyone. When you think this game can't get any easier Square goes ahead and does just that makes it so easy that a retarded baby chimp can do it.

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Originally Posted by Jre418

The way this game is heading they are just going to hand everything to everyone. When you think this game can't get any easier Square goes ahead and does just that makes it so easy that a retarded baby chimp can do it.

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have you redone any of the lower dungeons past copperbell? brayflox dragon now sports way more hp's than at the launch. they seem to have removed provokes effect beyond being something cast at a mob (you can pull with it but don't waste time trying to recover a mob with it the hate it adds is near pointless.)

its more like they made the dungeons easy to allow the first wave through and now are closing the barn door.

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Originally Posted by HongKongPhoo

I am taking it most of you never played 11 where some bosses took hours to take down.

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There wasn't a single boss in FFXI that took hours to kill. Nothing in sea, nothing in sky, nothing in any ToAU zone. If it did take that long, it was by using vastly suboptimal strategies and alliance composition.

The only time a boss took any significant amount of time, was the original horrendously bugged Pandemonium Warden. Extra emphasis on the "bugged" part of that. The fight was broken, and would have continued forever if they kept at it. After they fixed it, the linkshell in question flattened it in like 15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by CatofNineTails

have you redone any of the lower dungeons past copperbell? brayflox dragon now sports way more hp's than at the launch. they seem to have removed provokes effect beyond being something cast at a mob (you can pull with it but don't waste time trying to recover a mob with it the hate it adds is near pointless.)

its more like they made the dungeons easy to allow the first wave through and now are closing the barn door.

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Provoke is great if you mess up and adds get on a whm/dd. Provoke + tomahawk. Remember that the tooltip is a lie and all it does is put you at the top of the hate list '+1'.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

There wasn't a single boss in FFXI that took hours to kill.

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Hours to get together, 10 minutes to kill lol

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Provoke is great if you mess up and adds get on a whm/dd. Provoke + tomahawk. Remember that the tooltip is a lie and all it does is put you at the top of the hate list '+1'.

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ran tests on it in a couple of dungeons and as I said the effect of provoke is a cute graphic and no change in the mobs hate towards another player who has stopped doing anything at all. now these were on lower dungeons where they have changed other stuff like Brayflox & Cutters cry could be a bug or they decided to change its effect somehow.

I'd love to see a device you have to obtain parts from the dungeons for that you use with a crafter to assembl and when used summons an instanced HNM for your FC to fight.

Honestly, I want the award for first timers to include bonus tomestones as well. That way people would be compelled to help first timers, instead of raging at them watching cutscenes et all. Best implementation would be to lock everyone while someone is watching a cutscene and make them invulnerable for the time

my guess is that the change in difficulty is going to be associated with making it harder to speed run, not making it harder for less geared people to complete the dungeon. this would also make sense as to why we will see a bump in philo tomes.

make the dungeon runs longer while also giving them a better reward i guess you could say.

i dont see anything wrong with this, because imo "speed runs" are not how SE intended these dungeons to be played, why would a game designer create something with the express purpose of people skipping it?

still not sure what they mean by "tomes will be found in more locations" will that mean the lower end dungeons will have more tomes? will we have other ways of acquiring tomes outsides of dungeons? will we start seeing tome drops in earlier dungeons such and quarn or cc? these the questions i have