Crystal Tower Will Be More Casual and is Accessible via Duty Finder

Hello,

So, the devs mentioned this on the last live letter:

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Q. How are the Binding Coil of Bahamut and Crystal Tower different?
A. Even with the release of patch 2.1, the Binding Coil of Bahamut will be the hardest content in the game. The Crystal Tower will be more casual, as it can also be accessed via the Duty Finder.

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What are your thoughts on this?
Will it become more like Titan?
Perhaps it wouldn't be a problem for some of us who have a large FC/LS
Finding 8 competent members from DF for Titan is hard enough, and this is 24..
It also depends on what's the definition of "casual" by the devs
Do they consider Titan hard as casual as it can also be accessed via the Duty Finder?

They are going backwards which me and my friends discussed as very strange ... We'll guess we will all truck roll it with all out ilevel90 gear haha

In that case I hope it isn't over for everyone if one person leaves.

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Originally Posted by Mykha

In that case I hope it isn't over for everyone if one person leaves.

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Or afk's and decides to come back for loot lmao

I think in a interview Yoshida said that during inhouse testing the whole 24 man group died if 1 or 2 people failed.
They changed it that it need now some more people to fail before the whole group die.

I love that we can spam it, it'll make Bahamut Coil much easier. :3 And closer to 7k health! (For a Paladin.)

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Originally Posted by Austin

They are going backwards which me and my friends discussed as very strange ... We'll guess we will all truck roll it with all out ilevel90 gear haha

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This was not done intentionally. Crystal Tower was supposed to be available at 2.0, and players were INTENDED to run it before every trying coils.

DF a 24 man dungeon? Hope there isn't a limit to it. Sounds like fun. ^_^!

Don't forget dungeons will be getting a gear check/minimum ilevel feature with 2.1 as well. One of the biggest issues I've seen with DF Titan(or even Garuda) groups is that people are heavily undergeared.

Normally larger raid size = easier raid, tbh. In wow 40 mans you could easily carry 20% of the raid being pure bads as long as the core was solid. In EverQuest 72 man raids back in the day even more so, you could lose tons of baddies and still do ok with a few solid core groups. 10 man raids you have 2 or 3 scrubs and you may be SoL.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

This was not done intentionally. Crystal Tower was supposed to be available at 2.0, and players were INTENDED to run it before every trying coils.

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Yep.

Endgame progress is meant to be

CM/TP/WP/Ifrit HM(ilvl 50 - 55) -> AK/Garuda HM(ilvl 55-60) -> Titan HM as the gatekeeper into true endgame(ilvl 70) -> Crystal Tower (ilvl ilvl 70 - 80 gears) -> Coil (ilvl 80 - 90 gear)

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

Finding 8 competent members from DF for Titan is hard enough, and this is 24..

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Competence often becomes less important in large groups.
Take for example a small party with one healer, if that healer is bad then /GG
But in a large group with 2-3 healers, one bad healer won't wipe the party.

As someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty much how wow raid finder groups pull through.
There will be a few people that know what they are doing and the rest just fodder.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Crystal Tower (ilvl ilvl 70 - 80 gears) -> Coil (ilvl 80 - 90 gear)

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But according to Yoshi-P in the Tokyo Game Show interview, BC and CT are two parallel lines of progression, one designed for 8 man, the other for 24 man. That is also why the updates are alternated.

2.1: CT T1
2.2: BC T2
2.3: CT T2
2.4: BC T3

So the intended end-game progression is supposed to be:

If you play 8-man only: BC T1 -> BC T2 -> BC T3
If you play 24-man only: CT T1 -> CT T2 -> CT T3
If you play both: BC+CT T1 -> BC+CT T2 -> BC+CT T3

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Originally Posted by TheMoonflow

Competence often becomes less important in large groups.
Take for example a small party with one healer, if that healer is bad then /GG
But in a large group with 2-3 healers, one bad healer won't wipe the party.

As someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty much how wow raid finder groups pull through.
There will be a few people that know what they are doing and the rest just fodder.

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i see
i hope it will be like that
less stress, less complain

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Originally Posted by Austin

They are going backwards which me and my friends discussed as very strange ... We'll guess we will all truck roll it with all out ilevel90 gear haha

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Considering how its an iLevel 80 raid...

All I have to say is whats the point in making Crystal Tower easier than coil?? I've heared people complaining that coil is already too easy, this game is just completely empty for players who want a hardcore experience.

I was looking forward to crystal tower, I thought it would be challenging now I'm kind of just thinking whats the point in gearing in 90 gear if there isn't anything challenging to fight worthy of facing my ooberness?

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Originally Posted by Vandark

All I have to say is whats the point in making Crystal Tower easier than coil?? I've heared people complaining that coil is already too easy, this game is just completely empty for players who want a hardcore experience.

I was looking forward to crystal tower, I thought it would be challenging now I'm kind of just thinking whats the point in gearing in 90 gear if there isn't anything challenging to fight worthy of facing my ooberness?

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Not sure if serious

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Not sure if serious

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Coil really is too easy if we are managing to hit the last boss while skipping an entire tier of gear. I can understand skillful play and creative use of mechanics overcoming some gear disparity, but bridging a 20ilvl gap is pretty huge.

We've had this discussion in our guild for a while, and there's really almost nothing to do between the 3 months (supposedly) between CT and Coil T6+. A lot of our members are sitting on 3-5 relics/most crafters @ 50 (non-legacy) just from leveling random classes out of boredom. If CT is confirmed to drop lower ilvl loot than what we already get now, there's no incentive to running the place past the first clear.

Keep in mind that 2.1 does have more primals and another instance: Pharos Sirius.

We don't know what the difficulty of them will be in relation to CT/Coil.

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Originally Posted by vRoad

Coil really is too easy if we are managing to hit the last boss while skipping an entire tier of gear. I can understand skillful play and creative use of mechanics overcoming some gear disparity, but bridging a 20ilvl gap is pretty huge.

We've had this discussion in our guild for a while, and there's really almost nothing to do between the 3 months (supposedly) between CT and Coil T6+. A lot of our members are sitting on 3-5 relics/most crafters @ 50 (non-legacy) just from leveling random classes out of boredom. If CT is confirmed to drop lower ilvl loot than what we already get now, there's no incentive to running the place past the first clear.

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Dude.

I get your point, but please understand that you are the vocal minority of the playerbase.

I know some people already reached Coil Turn 5 (but IIRC Twintania is not THAT easy yet...be it from broken mechanics or lag, but still it's not a "farmed" boss for now so we cannot say that Coil is "easy", sorry), but still your FC is not the rule.

The majority of FCs are way more laid-back, and the overall revenue SE makes from casuals is more than what they make from hardcore gamers.

I've been playing since day one, I've been playing this game and NOTHING else, in ALL my spare time - and I just got my first relic the other day, and only killed first boss of Coil turn 1. I have no other jobs at 50 and no crafting / gathering skill at a significant level.

I also have a full time job - yeah, that might be why I'm so behind on content :P

No matter how much content a developer can dish out - there will ALWAYS be people who will devour this content faster than it can be created. It's constant in every MMO.

I suggest to just slow down a bit, but it's just my opinion.

I have a full time job, and am on turn four. Really only log on for raids now, no reason to log on otherwise. So maybe 5-10 hrs a week. It's pretty easy and the smallest time sink I've experienced for an mmo.

Full DL and relic +1 only on Turn 1 because coils groups are hard to organize and get into on a lower pop server (and yes I have been trying). Personally, I'd be happy for something to run in between DL and coils gear so I can at least work on increasing my ilvl gear. Botany is draining me.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Keep in mind that 2.1 does have more primals and another instance: Pharos Sirius.

We don't know what the difficulty of them will be in relation to CT/Coil.

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Moogles weren't difficult at all and they won't be now. The other instance is hopefully 8 man or it won't be difficult either since it has to be balanced for 4 man which can't be terribly difficult. Extreme mode will probably be switching around skills/addition of new kill points, like how you had 2 sets of nails in IE 1.0 and so on.

I'm glad it'll require a relic to join, i think its a good thing that Titan HM is there as a way to weed out the people that can follow mechanics from those who can't.

I think we are missing the worse part.

It's not even a 24 men raid. It's 3 8 men party tapped together trough the Duty Finder.

It'll probably be like a 24-man CM.

Care-bear raid to appease the casual population, good move for SE since 95% of the game is "Casual" but it will leave raiders bored and logging in once a week until 2.2 (assuming the extreme primal fights aren't going to be a progression time sink).

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Originally Posted by Horg

Care-bear raid to appease the casual population, good move for SE since 95% of the game is "Casual" but it will leave raiders bored and logging in once a week until 2.2 (assuming the extreme primal fights aren't going to be a progression time sink).

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Good. That 5% doesn't deserve all the content.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

It'll probably be like a 24-man CM.

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that's what i thought
moreover, if it also gives mytho it will be packed all day long, every day lol

What does it matter, by time it's released...all those HC raid guilds that are capable of getting the crew needed will have full allagans/af2 by then.

Mad props for nulling content before it's released though; that's pretty hilarious and has to be a first.