Would you help me find a good rotation for lvl 70 items? I thank you in advance

All right, since I haven’t started really crafting high level items so far I am really new to this and would love some tips.
Currently, I got 50 at Goldsmith, Blacksmith, Leatherworking and Carpentry.
15 at Alchemy and 30 at Weaving and 30 Armorer.
By the end of the week, I intend to be 50 Weaving and 15 Culinarian.
Assuming it is the end of the week and I already possess the skills I intend to, I will start to craft lvl 70 items.
So, I would have:
Ingenuity 2
Manipulation
Tricks of the Trade
Careful Synthesis 2
Hasty Touch
Rapid Synthesis
Waste not 2
Rumination
Byregot’s Blessing
Assuming I have these skills, would you guys be able to suggest some skill rotations in order to maximize the chance to get a High Quality item considering 40 durability? And considering 80 Durability?
I really appreciate your feedback.

Here's what I do for my crafts. Keep in mind that I have access to Steady Hand II, which gives me 100% success on Basic Touch. The idea is to boost control with Inner quiet and unleash Byregot's blessing at the very last possible moment.

Durability 40.

Confort zone (not needed, gives 14 cp)
Inner Quiet
Steady Hand II
Waste Not
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Great Strides
Steady Hand
Ingenuity II
Advanced Touch (or Standard Touch)
Great Strides
Byregot's Blessing
Standard Synthesis (or Careful Synthesis II)

Durability 80

Confort zone (not needed, gives 14 cp)
Inner Quiet
Steady Hand II
Waste Not II
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Steady Hand II
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)
Basic Touch (or Hasty Touch)

Here you still have 2 uses of Steady hand, so either increase quality with Hasty/Basic Touch or go to next phase and keep durability for extra progress at the end.

Steady Hand
Great Strides
Innovation (not needed but really nice)
Ingenuity II
Byregot's Blessing
Standard Synthesis
Careful Synthesis II as often as needed.

Hope this helps

Do you always get HQ on your lvl 70 items?

I always get HQ on the 80 durability items (from NQ mats)... for the 40 ones it depends on the timing of the Byregot Blessing... if it happens to land on a good condition it's usually enough to push the quality to 100%, if not it's around the lowest is about 50% (all with NQ). Also, make sure to eat some control food and have all your gear slotted with proper materia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raveman1000

Here you still have 2 uses of Steady hand, so either increase quality with Hasty/Basic Touch or go to next phase and keep durability for extra progress at the end.

Great Strides
Steady Hand
Innovation (not needed but really nice)
Ingenuity II
Byregot's Blessing
Standard Synthesis
Careful Synthesis II as often as needed.

Hope this helps

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Question about this. Doesn't the Great Strides get wasted by not using a Touch action in the three turns after it? GS, SH, Innovation, Ingenuity 2, Byregot's ... doesn't that have the Great Strides go poof right before (and thus not affect at all) the Byregot's?

I'd think swapping the Great Strides and the Steady Hand would solve that little problem.

As a level 50 in all crafts, my rotations follow these rotations/rules:

80 Durability:

1. Comfort Zone (although only a 14 point regeneration you'll use it twice in 2-star recipes)
2. Inner Quiet.
3. Steady Hands II
4. Waste Not I (II is awful and, despite its name, an utter waste of resources)
5. Hasty.
6. Hasty.
7. Hasty.
8. Hasty.

--INITIAL NOTES--
1. If RED condition in any of the above, use Tricks of the Trade.
2. If RED condition in the first few steps causes loss of sync of Steady Hands II and Waste Not I buff (i.e. they are not the same number) consider using Careful Synthesis II on step 8 to make use of the last tick of Waste Not I. If unsure, allow the buff to expire while you rebuff. Keeping 5 durability is better than wasting CP on a touch.
If condition EXCELLENT use Basic Touch.

By this stage you should be anywhere from 60-70 durability based off RED condition Tricks of the Trade regeneration.

Now we work on progress while allowing Comfort Zone to fall off at a manageable time.

9. Ingenuity II
10. Careful Synthesis II (take not of the progress increase. See how many more it will take to complete WITH INGENUITY II ON)
11. Careful Synthesis II (if step 10 took you over 50% progress, obviously use a lesser synthesis action. The goal here is to land within 1-2 progress steps of finishing).

If RED condition, continue using Tricks of the Trade.

Then:

Comfort Zone (landing on ~40 Durability at worst)
12. Steady Hands II
13. Waste Not I
14. Hasty.
15. Hasty.
16. Hasty.
17 Hasty. (landing on ~20 Durability at worst)

NOTE: If RNG has been good to you and you have hit mostof your hasty touches, use Basic Touch on any REDS above.

If RNG has been a cow, continue using Tricks of the Trade. You'll need to fuel another Waste Not I attack before the last stage.

Now take a look at your situation. How many quality increases have been successful? You're keeping count, right? Always keep count. At best you're about 100%. At worst you're on 0-40% with a powerful anger towards RNG. If this is you, you may consider using RECLAIM and praying to the Gods.

What remains to do is pop Manipulation and set yourself up for the endgame. How you proceed depends on your CP pool. I have 378 CP so at this stage I often find myself in a very favorable position and do the following.

Steady Hands II.
Basic Touch.
Great Strides. (If GOOD/EXCELLENT, use B. Blessing. If white continue)
Ingenuity II. (We use this first before Innovation because we need the buff for finishing progress and do not want our CP to run us short of finishing.If GOOD/EXCELLENT, use B. Blessing. If white continue)
Innovation.
B. Blessing.

With Ingenuity still active:

Careful Synthesis II.
Careful Synthesis II.

Now, there are a lot of things to consider. How many touches were successful? How much progress does your gear yield on these particular recipes? With Ingenuity II these numbers correlate to your 1-star yields so you likely already know this.

At the start of a synth work on quality and CP retention. In the middle stages work on Progress first with CP retention, followed by quality with CP spending once you are able to reach the finish line in 1-2 synthesis actions.

Your endgame is to get Steady Hands II up, and then use the first tick on a hasty/basic, followed by all your buffs. The point of this is twofold: Firstly, buffs obviously make for strong touches. However, just as important is that when you buff on a white condition you give yourself another chance that the next condition will be favorable. That is why we use B. Blessing at late as humanly possible.

If all goes well you'll be HQing your 2 star recopies with ease.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckles

"snip"

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Buckles, a couple questions.

1. How do you have 378 CP?
2. Progess yields for 2 star recipes (with ingenuity (1 or 2)) are the same as 1 star yields; with or without Ingenuity?

1) I am not in game, but I have somewhere in the region of 333CP -- then I eat a HQ 1 star +CP food. I chose this over control or craft food because I find (with the way I craft) I can better control my synthesis with more CP.

Also if things go pear shaped (I'm looking at you 4 failed hasty touches in a row) I can scrounge back a decent chance of still HQing with more CP to play with. Failing both of those, the bigger reserve of CP can allow me to use Reclaim where otherwise I'd have drained my CP pool (I don't run with Rumination anymore so that isn't an option)

2) I haven't a clue. I do know that on 2-star my Careful II without Ingenuity II is 50 while with Ingenuity II it is 106 -- so whatever cross class skills you take, ingenuity II is essential.

When I said "correlates to your 1-star yield" I meant ingenuity II progress is static, as it lowers the recipe to 47. I find this means I can 1 shot most recipes below 1 star, so use a 1 star recipe to test numbers. Or use a 2 star pre-requisite item to test numbers.

You really can't make an estimate as to how well you'll do until you jump in and try. I will say this though: there are plenty of materials required in the final 2 star synthesis. Everything from Felt, Ingots, Sinew is all very easy to HQ or buy HQ for cheap. After you've made your 40 durability 2 star item you'll have to make a pre-requiste 2 star item in most cases -- such as the Rose Gold Clasps or Gryphonskin shin pad things. It doesnt matter terribly if you SQ this item so use it to take note of your progress gains with and without ingenuity II. That way when you reach your final synth you won't fall short or finish accidently

Right, I was only asking since I only have Ingenuity. Either way though I would assume my progress on 1 star gear would be the same on 2 star since it theoretically brings it to the same level. I was just curious to see if you'd done some testing to validate that theory and it seems like you have. I would assume on 1 star gear your Careful Synth 2 also hits for 106 with Ingenuity 2 up?

Buckles: Make a guide. That was a crap ton of really really useful information but ever so slightly confusing as to the exceptions in your process for good/excellent quality instances. ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Question about this. Doesn't the Great Strides get wasted by not using a Touch action in the three turns after it? GS, SH, Innovation, Ingenuity 2, Byregot's ... doesn't that have the Great Strides go poof right before (and thus not affect at all) the Byregot's?

I'd think swapping the Great Strides and the Steady Hand would solve that little problem.

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You are quite right... I mixed up the order... I'll correct it in original post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckles

4. Waste Not I (II is awful and, despite its name, an utter waste of resources)

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Actually Waste Not II is more efficient than Waste Not I. For 98 CP you save 40 durability, 35 if you refresh Steady Hand II but it's clearly the same as 40 since with 5 conditions leftover you can still do an action. So that's 2,45cp/dur. Waste Not I saves 20 for 56, at a cost of 2,8cp/dur. So using WNII gives you more for your CP.

That leads me to Tricks of the trade. I'm honestly not a big fan of using it all the time. Here's why:

If you use it while Waste Not I is activated, you waste 1/4 of the cost of WNI (56/4=14).
If you use it while Steady Hand II is activated you waste 1/5 of the cost of SHII (25/5=5)
While both are activated you hence waste 19 of previously invested CP.

All that to gain 20cp back... but loosing an opportunity to use a good condition that would have increased quality by 150%. I don't think that 1 cp is worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckles

3. Steady Hands II
4. Waste Not I
5. Hasty.
6. Hasty.
7. Hasty.
8. Hasty.

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Here's another example for why I think using ToT instead of Hasty touch is not as good as it seams.

Let's say we have a good streaks of good condition and get 2 good out of 4 hasty touch.

Scenario 1: we use ToT on goods and hasty on normals

We spent 81 cp on SHII and WNI and received 40cp back, so 41 spent. We also spent 10 dur and got 1,6 increases in quality (80% x 2)

Scenario 2: we use hasty on all

We spent 81 cp on SHII and WNI and received nothing, so 81 spent. We also spent 20 dur and got nearly the equivalent of 4 increases in quality (80% x 2 + 80% x 2 x 150%)

For comparison purpose we do scenario 1 twice and see that for more cp (82 instead of 81) we get 3,2 quality increases instead of 4 for the same durability (20).

Unless my logic is flawed I don't see why we should use ToT while SHII and WN are active.

In theory what you say is utterly reasonable, but in my experience I'll get 1-2 GOOD conditions in 8 steps, so you can chalk of another 1-2 uses of Waste Not. Also you may need to buff ingenuity II alongside Steady Hands II so again you lose 2 steps.

Waste Not I is far cheaper, and I find gives me far more wiggle room to improvise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maku

Buckles: Make a guide. That was a crap ton of really really useful information but ever so slightly confusing as to the exceptions in your process for good/excellent quality instances. ^^

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I would love to make a guide : But the 1000 character limit would kill me and I'd probably break the forums. There are a lot of "In this case or that" but you'll soon grow into a system of your own based on your CP, Craft/Control. I do find though that CP food is great, so use that stuff and reap the wonders of an additional Waste Not I or SH II.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raveman1000

Unless my logic is flawed I don't see why we should use ToT while SHII and WN are active.

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Your logic isn't flawed and falls into the category of "Random Event 00214_Alpha_IluvRNG".

We all know you'll get a streak of reds in one synthesis that utterly throws your plan into disarray, and other time when it seems our equipment has forgotten any color other than white. I tackle most of my 2-star synthesis attempts like I would any boss or monster fight. I have X resources and X skills. I KNOW I can defeat the monster if I get 120% B.Blessing stacks and use GS, Ingen II, Innovation and SHII.

If I got 2 reds on my hasty spam and used hasty instead of tricks, the hasty may fail and I'd lose 5 durability and miss out on 20CP regenerating. If I got 2 reds and decided to use 18CP touch I may find myself that 18CP down the line.

I am a careful crafter (at least until Animal Fat and Peacock ore stop costing 30-40,000 gil each).

Although I am currently experimenting with only using the 18CP touch and tweaking the synthesis because I would ideally like to start knowing 100% I can HQ no matter what. I feel Hasty touch spam is great for when you have a few 50's -- but for 2 star I'd like to find a method to only rely on skills that have an absolute 100% chance to hit home.

When somebody finally buys my HQ items I'll be buying more 2 star materials and trying a new approach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Although I am currently experimenting with only using the 18CP touch and tweaking the synthesis because I would ideally like to start knowing 100% I can HQ no matter what. I feel Hasty touch spam is great for when you have a few 50's -- but for 2 star I'd like to find a method to only rely on skills that have an absolute 100% chance to hit home.

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I'm right with you on this one. Hasty touch spam is great but can go haywire and for the cost of those synthesis is a bit risky. Like you mentionned I try replacing my hasty touch with basic touch for the 100% chance on reds, but CP is too short to make them all basic touch, so there is still a random component. The best approach is to have HQ mats beside the special mat (Darkstell ingot, etc..). Having 1000 in quality rating at the start of a synthesis is a guaranteed HQ even on a bad Hasty streak. Plus, the mats other then the special ones are quite cheap.

Let me know if you find the 100% way to HQ :).

This is my method. It has proven (to me) to be the best so far.

0- Use tricks of the trade ALWAYS whenever Good pops during the first phase.

PHASE 1 (Building Inner quiet stacks)

1- Comfort zone
2- Inner quiet
3- Steady Hand II
4- Hasty Touch Spam
5- Steady Hand II
6- Hasty Touch Spam
7- Master's Mend II
8- Continue your Hasty Spam
9- If you succeeded 6 or 7 hasty touches, go to phase 2. If not, depending on the dur left and how many tricks of the trade you got, you could afford some more Steady Hand II + Hasty Spam.

PHASE 2 (Byregot and Synthesis)

1- Steady Hand
2- Great Strides
3- Innovation
4- Ingenuity
5- Byregot's Blessing
6- Standard Synthesis if CP available
7- Careful Synthesis II until finished

Did a 2-star synth to 100% using Basic Touch, so I didn't gamble anything. It was pretty much Basic Touch in place of Hasty Touch, and EVERY RED was turned back into CP with TotT to cover the cost. I only used quality on one red and that was my endgame touch. SH II, GS, Innovation -- this is where red popped. Had it not I would have done Ingen II and popped BB then.

I did, however, use only HQ materials so started at pretty much 1000 quality. After six Basic Touches I was confident that a 120% touch (B.B) with all my buffs would finish the last 35-40% and it totally did.

I think 2-star are way scarier than they look. When you first start doing quality on them the bar just doesn't move AT ALL. But a buffed up 120% or so B.B hits really hard. As it always reaches 100% we never really see the exact number as it just tops up what is left -- but I am certainly growing more confident in them. Haven't SQ'd 2 yet.

Also just a heads up, don't make Rose Gold Circlet. Nobody buys it :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckles

I would love to make a guide : But the 1000 character limit would kill me and I'd probably break the forums.

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You can edit posts to get around the 1000 limit. Example.

This is the rotation I use for 100% HQ 80 Durability 2 Star Items. No Hasty Touch, No Trick of the trade!
My Stats is : 347 Craftmanship / 352 Control / 370 CP (w/ food)

Note: 365 CP is a must to finish this rotation.

Required Skils:
"Inner Quiet" - For All
"Steady Hand II" - Culinarian lvl 37
"Waste Not" - Leatherworker lvl 15
"Steady Hand" - For All
"Great Strides" - For All
"Ingenuity" - Blacksmith lvl 15
"Byregot's Blessing" - Carpenter lvl 50
"Careful Synthesis II" - Weaver lvl 50

My Rotation:
"Inner Quiet"
"Steady Hand II"
"Waste Not"
"Basic Touch"
"Basic Touch"
"Standard Touch"
"Standard Touch"
"Steady Hand"
"Standard Touch"
"Standard Touch"
"Great Strides"
"Ingenuity"
"Byregot's Blessing"
"Careful Synthesis II"
"Careful Synthesis II"
"Careful Synthesis II"

Note: With my current stats, I can still craft 100% HQ with a Normal Quality 40 Durability 2 Star Mat like Vanya Silk. Just make sure other cheap mats like Twinthread is HQ.

I hope that will help =D