What do you look for in a combat system?

Responsiveness?

Strategy?

Fast pace?

Slow pace?

Auto-attack?

Active/MANUAL attack?

Combos?

Party vs. Single Mob?

Party vs. Party of Mobs?

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?

Acrobatics?

Visuals?

Positioning?

Creativity with attacks?

Luck/Dice-roll systems?


I don't really know which features I want in a combat system, all I know is that auto-attack is not among them. What about you? What would you like and do you think auto-attack fulfills your desires for a combat system? And more importantly, is it a wise decision to create a battle system which revolves around auto-attack?

(By the way, don't move this thread to battle mechanics because this isn't a technical discussion about battle mechanics, it's just a study on general opinion)

Responsiveness?
Yes

Strategy?
for Bosses and such

Fast pace?
Yes

Slow pace?
No

Auto-attack?
Yes

Active attack?
idk what this is?

Combos?
Yes

Party vs. Single Mob?
Yes

Party vs. Party of Mobs?
Yes

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?
Yes

Acrobatics?
Yes

Visuals?
Yes

Positioning?
No

Creativity with attacks?
Yes

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
No, I hate these systems, and thats why I love TERA as it doesnt use them.

for my replies see Zelda, Elder scrolls Skyrim, Fallout 3, bayonetta, DCUO.

An active action based battle system that is fluid and fast pace.
I do not enjoy gamjes with a big focus on Auto attack those games tend to get dull quickly for me.

@ viion you really must be a new gamer to not know what active attack is. Pretty much it is manual attacking such as Zelda.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

@ viion you really must be a new gamer to not know what active attack is. Pretty much it is manual attacking such as Zelda.

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lol I'm not a new gamer, at all. I just dont call it active attack.... I call it manual attacking :S

Responsiveness?
Yes

Strategy?
for Bosses and such

Fast pace?
Absolutely Yes

Slow pace?
Friggin' No

Auto-attack?
Whatever

Active attack?
WHAT?

Combos?
Yes

Party vs. Single Mob?
Whatever

Party vs. Party of Mobs?
Yesssssss

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?
Yes

Acrobatics?
Hell Yeah!!

Visuals?
Yes

Positioning?
No

Creativity with attacks?
Yes

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
only wow trolls need this system. we, FF fans can negotiate via talking

A mix of how Blue Mage and Dancer both operated in XI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

lol I'm not a new gamer, at all. I just dont call it active attack.... I call it manual attacking :S

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Terminology has always been active attack though or action based. Also most new gamers love auto attack as they never experienced the thrill or strat when it comes to manuel attack from old school rpg.
See zelda. Nice epic battles with manuel combat.

Responsiveness?
yes

Strategy?
yes

Fast pace?
yes

Slow pace?
hell to the no

Auto-attack?
doesnt bother me

Active/MANUAL attack?
it might be great but i dont think its practical

Combos?
yes

Party vs. Single Mob?
no

Party vs. Party of Mobs?
yes

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?
yes

Acrobatics?
yes

Visuals?
yes

Positioning?
yes

Creativity with attacks?
yes

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
no

Responsiveness. That's all. As long as it works. Battle is just there to get me through what matters most to me - the story.

Anything else like cool effects are all just bonuses for me.
Not picky.. XD

For the whole "auto vs manual attack", i say the system in place now is awesome as is. I like DCUO's manual, fast action fighting but that does not fit in Final Fantasy, I dislike though how boring auto attack gets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bled

For the whole "auto vs manual attack", i say the system in place now is awesome as is. I like DCUO's manual, fast action fighting but that does not fit in Final Fantasy, I dislike though how boring auto attack gets.

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But spamming numbers can get boring too. The idea of manual is good, but the implementation in FFXIV is boring. TERA, GW2, and B&S seem to pull off action-based combat really well. FFXIV, not so much. Even though SE's heart was in the right place, they didn't seem to be able to realise their vision (combat where actions and positioning matter). Active combat where position matters allows for a lot of strategy and CREATIVITY when fighting.

While Im on the subject, the responsiveness and visual representation of our attacks in FFXIV is also quite poor.

But anyway, in conclusion, auto-attack does not seem to resolve the issues afflicting FFXIV's combat system at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

TERA, GW2, and B&S seem to pull off action-based combat really well.

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Yeah, SEEM, so until I have an controller in my hands playing those games, I'm not going to say those battle systems are any better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

But spamming numbers can get boring too. The idea of manual is good, but the implementation in FFXIV is boring. TERA, GW2, and B&S seem to pull off action-based combat really well. FFXIV, not so much. Even though SE's heart was in the right place, they didn't seem to be able to realise their vision (combat where actions and positioning matter).

Active combat where position matters allows for a lot of strategy and CREATIVITY when fighting.

The responsiveness and visual representation of our attacks in FFXIV is quite poor.

But anyway, in conclusion, auto-attack does not seem to resolve the issues afflicting FFXIV's combat system at the moment.

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Yeah, I agree that the current system is not the best implementation, i just pray that Yoshi does not implement auto-attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Yeah, SEEM, so until I have an controller in my hands playing those games, I'm not going to say those battle systems are any better.

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Well, by the looks of things, the combat is very responsive and fluid. So that's at least one aspect of those games which compares favourably against FFXIV's combat.

But I will also reserve judgment until i play the game myself. Everyone I know says that TERA's combat is really fun though, so it's probably safe to assume the game plays well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bled

Yeah, I agree that the current system is not the best implementation, i just pray that Yoshi does not implement auto-attack.

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I can guarantee your prayers will be unheeded.

They already said they are making the combat system REVOLVE around auto-attack. Apparently auto-attack is integral to the new system. So that just goes to show what we can expect from the new combat system, LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bled

Yeah, I agree that the current system is not the best implementation, i just pray that Yoshi does not implement auto-attack.

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Sorry dude, but it's coming.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post63333

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Sorry dude, but it's coming.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post63333

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That post is filled with so much fail its sad. Its not even the auto attack that gets me, but rather for whatever changes they are planning they can think of no other way to make it work than with auto attack. I cant think of any of the major issues with battle that are effected by auto attack, or lack there off
They are talking about class uniqueness, and stats and using auto attack to solve that?

the main issues with battle are due to a lack of interactivity, lack of needing to use skills, lack of movement,
and lack of any sort of visual uniqueness for 90% of your attacks. lack of combos
auto attack solves and helps none of these issues, while theoretically it may not hurt some, the fact that auto attack is integral to all his plans suggests that whatever he is trying to solve is not what most people think is the problem with battle.

lol this thread got owned by a Mod.

Responsiveness?
This one is a given.

Strategy?
To some extent, but nothing that requires hours of research and absolutely flawless execution of skills in an exact order or else you get wiped.

Fast pace?
Yes

Slow pace?
Final Fantasy is known for having slow paced battle but for an MMO it doesn't work out too well.

Auto-attack or Active/MANUAL attack?
Indifferent as long as the other features presented in this post are there. I prefer manual though, since it makes me actually feel like I'm doing something >.>

Combos?
Combos are nice but not necessary past the Battle Regimen. But if they made something like skill fusion (Using a skill at the same time as another person = skill combo for new skill, such as Cure + Element Spell = heal + increased protection from that element) would make me really happy.

Party vs. Single Mob or Party vs. Party of Mobs or Single Player vs. Party of Mobs or Single Player vs. Single Mob?
Again, for the most part I don't care. I prefer parties vs. a huge, epic monster in "long" (10 minute) battles rather than party vs. a bunch of tiny mobs like Behests are, though.

Acrobatics?
Only if you actually need to use them, like in GW2 for dodging and such. Otherwise it's just a whistle that adds nothing for me.

Visuals?
As long as I can tell what's on the screen.

Positioning?
Would be a nice bell but overall I don't mind...positioning will always matter as long as AoE attacks exist, but not as much as they could.

Creativity with attacks?
I like creativity, which is why I like the Armory system.

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
Only for crits and loot. They shouldn't have a large part in anything else, though, IMO.

Responsiveness?
Absolutely. Its the base of any good battle system.

Strategy?
Yep. But i don't mean stuff like SC...i mean strategy like the way parties are built and the role everyone need to accept in order of win.

Fast pace?
Yup! IMO 20~30 minutes should be the time limit for a monster to fall. I hated those 1~2hrs fights at FFXI...once, while helping a friend with his brand new sky LS, we took almost 4 hrs to kill his first Kirin...Kirin even run out of MP due such long fight...its not even close to be fun.

Slow pace?
No, thanks.

Auto-attack?
Dependes of how its used. IMO auto-attack needs to be a secundary option, not the base of a battle system.

Active/MANUAL attack?
Yup! I love button smashing! I always loved this kind of games! IMO it can be merged with an auto attack system...but it should always be the base of a battle system.

Combos?
Yup. IMO combos are much more interesting strategy-wise than timed skills.

Party vs. Single Mob?
Nah. Tired of it already

Party vs. Party of Mobs?
I'm waiting this since the beta. This is what i wanted in this game!

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?
No, thanks. 1-on-1 or many vs many. When 1 player can solo large groups of monsters something is wrong.

Acrobatics? Visuals?
Its secundary. Once the battle system is good, animations don't matter much.

Positioning?
Yes. In an active battle system positioning needs to be a key part of it.

Creativity with attacks?
Yup. Nothing worse than having every player using the very same set of actions in a certain class (Like PLD/WAR, NIN/WAR, RNG/NIN, etc in a "certain" game)...specially when players start rejecting people that decide using their creativity at their playstyle.

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
Indeed! I love games with high risk-high gain skills. IMO a good game would have from the safe, high accurate skills that deal low damage until the really inaccurate skills that deal massive damage. This also is important since not everyone plays the same way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

lol this thread got owned by a Mod.

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i know rite.

Interesting post, though I don't expect many surprises among the answers.


Responsiveness? - Single most important factor, also one of the most dire things lacking in xiv currently

Strategy? - Generally yes, though this requires further explanation. In combat or before combat?

Fast pace? - not neccessarily, harmful if Responsiveness isn't good enough

Slow pace? - no

Auto-attack? - no

Active/MANUAL attack?- yes

Combos? - depends on control scheme, good solution for restricted input devices (controllers)

Party vs. Single Mob?
Party vs. Party of Mobs?
Single Player vs. Party of Mobs? - Variation! This means, all three!

Acrobatics? - ??? Do you mean combat animations? I prefere more subtle, but fluid

Visuals? - ??? Do you mean special effects? Again, personal preference is not too flashy

Positioning? - subsumed under Strategy

Creativity with attacks? - subsumed under Strategy

Luck/Dice-roll systems? - no

A battle system that requires skill,
and not just better gear and higher levels.

(And hours upon hours upon hours of time: see Pandemonium Warden)

Responsiveness?
Yes

Strategy?
Yes monster and bosses

Fast pace?
Yes

Slow pace?
No

Auto-attack?
Yes

Active attack?
Yes

Combos?
Yes

Party vs. Single Mob?
Yes Definitely

Party vs. Party of Mobs?
Yes

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs?
Definitely No

Acrobatics?
Yes

Visuals?
Yes

Positioning?
Yes

Creativity with attacks?
Yes

Luck/Dice-roll systems?
Maybe later in an expansion.

Quote:

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Interesting post, though I don't expect many surprises among the answers.

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I know we're not that far into the thread but I'm surprised by the amount of people that are for a manual-attack. I'm actually one of them but I thought I was in a very small minority (maybe I still am.)

This thread sure puts into perspective on what people actually want in a combat system and now I can clearly see why so many people are frustrated with the current system.

Personally, I hope the upcoming system puts emphasis on Chess like positioning, in that its more strategic/tactical positioning than twitch positioning.

More importantly, I want a system that is clear on what its trying to be. The current battle system is a Active Turn based system more that seems like an action based system. I want the new thing to make it certain to all players about how to play and its rules.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zhinse

This thread sure puts into perspective on what people actually want in a combat system and now I can clearly see why so many people are frustrated with the current system.

Personally, I hope the upcoming system puts emphasis on Chess like positioning, in that its more strategic/tactical positioning than twitch positioning.

More importantly, I want a system that is clear on what its trying to be. The current battle system is a Active Turn based system more that seems like an action based system. I want the new thing to make it certain to all players about how to play and its rules.

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what do you mean by chess like positioning, as in you go to one position and stay there for the whole fight because thats your good range?

The current system has a long learning curve, but the exp limit difficulty doesnt require you to learn it at all, so i think thats the real problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Physic

what do you mean by chess like positioning, as in you go to one position and stay there for the whole fight because thats your good range?.

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Sorta. not for the whole fight of course, but keeping specific spacing. Sort of like Street fighter.

As of right now? I'd really love when I attempt a basic attack, it doesn't take 2 seconds before it executes, and other times instant. What's the problem, servers? It's incredibly not fun being front-line with this kind of lag

What do you look for in a combat system? a fun and enjoyable system.

Responsiveness? yes

Strategy? deffinitely

Fast pace? yes

Slow pace? only if i want to go afk or go to sleep.

Auto-attack? same as above. super boring system that may as well be called in-game botting.

Active/MANUAL attack? yes, deffinitely

Combos? yes

Party vs. Single Mob? it's ok, but more fun party v party

Party vs. Party of Mobs? yes love grouping

Single Player vs. Party of Mobs? fun in the short term, but not an every encounter

Acrobatics? not really necessary, but like nice animations.

Visuals? yes, anything to make it more fun and entertaining

Positioning? deffinitely i love strategy

Creativity with attacks? yes, trying different features is fun

Luck/Dice-roll systems? nah not a big fan of the luck system.