PLAYERS RALLY! - WE NEED AN ANSWER!

The fact a votekick function is incoming is great news for many people. Trolls and griefers are aplenty in the duty finder system, after all, and being able to replace them will go a long way into making the system usable.

However, abuse is possible, and I'd like to be reassured.

New level 50's who queue for Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium want to watch cutscenes, and frankly this is OK. I watched them when I had just dinged too, and now I'm in full DL, with my relic, and some BC gear, raiding. Having watched the cutscenes didn't slow me down in the long run, and I enjoyed the story very much.

However, the ability to votekick people comes with a very real risk: a majority of players who use the duty finder want speed runs. They can and will use the votekick function to kick people out of CM and Prae if they watch cutscenes.

Please, SE. Find a way to prevent this.

Players can't be kicked on first attempt at instance.

Not perfect, but there should already be a tracker for that involved, so would be like 3 lines of code. A good start.

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Originally Posted by Haniale

Players can't be kicked on first attempt at instance.

Not perfect, but there should already be a tracker for that involved, so would be like 3 lines of code. A good start.

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That's an elegant solution, actually. Very simple too.

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Originally Posted by Haniale

Players can't be kicked on first attempt at instance.

Not perfect, but there should already be a tracker for that involved, so would be like 3 lines of code. A good start.

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Actually that probably is the best answer, it always alerts us when a new player is in the dungeon, so make that person unkickable.

Also, maybe their should be a daily limit for a person to vote to kick, for say 24 hours you get to use this option 3 times?

Where was this announced? Can't seem to find it.

Also am dying to know where this information comes from?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...85#post1360485

Was announced there as incoming at some point, but very light on the details. I'm thankful that the post confirms they are wary of the potential abuse, and hopefully suggestions like this will be receptive.

Cant kick first timer.
Cant kick within first 5m or so.
Cant kick after final cutscene has triggered.
Require majority vote (other than kickee) to kick (4 person=3, 8 person=4, 24 person=12), and dont announce it when it starts (the people have to vote from themselves thinking it needs done, or from being told about a person. not because the system said that person x has been voted on to be kicked).

Ok, so they're looking into it.

I still don't like the idea. I think people just need to behave like human beings. The problem is behavior. But we'll see what happens.

Yeah, but expecting people to act like nice, common human beings in a MMORPG is stupid. They won't. They'll be jerks and abuse the system.

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

Actually that probably is the best answer, it always alerts us when a new player is in the dungeon, so make that person unkickable.

Also, maybe their should be a daily limit for a person to vote to kick, for say 24 hours you get to use this option 3 times?

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Better to have dynamic timers. Kick timer that doubles each use, halving each 24 hours. People who need to be kicked are rarer than people who slow the run down, so this should help focus it on jerkwads.

Kick protect in the form of a wait timer, increasing each occurrence, again decaying each 24 hours. New players shouldn't suffer long if at all, mean players should feel the wrath heavily.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

I think people just need to behave like human beings. The problem is behavior.

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Behaviour only works with rewards/punishment systems. bad behaviour is punished by social exclusion. no such process could be done in the game, so rules need to be used instead. However, a system to rate players for your personal use, combined with a server hierarchy, would do a lot of good. Favour being matched to players from home server, server group(say, 6 or so severs), then anyone in the game. End of run + the players you liked running with, - the players you want to avoid. Next round the game puts you in with people who you've already +'d, or who have been +'d by people you've +'d.

Also add a tutor system, but with no rewards. Players who are good people but bad at the game get to learn, players who would only go for the rewards and just grind the new players don't have a reason to impact them negatively.

why kick some1 for watching cutscenes? if they wanna fully enjoy everything in a first run let them.. if some1 cant wait 1-2 mins for a cutscene to finish then they got serious problems lol.....

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

why kick some1 for watching cutscenes? if they wanna fully enjoy everything in a first run let them.. if some1 cant wait 1-2 mins for a cutscene to finish then they got serious problems lol.....

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Indeed. I couldn't believe myself when I've read the first time of people complaining because others were watching the cutscenes. Excuse us if we want to enjoy the game as the first subscribers did. I actually would have a simple solution for it: disable the "skip cutscene" option when in a party, or at least in the not organized ones.

yeah that could work... make every1 watch the scenes then cant kick any1 for actually wanting to enjoy the cutscenes lol

I don't really want to see those insanely long cutscenes the 40'th time i'm in CM

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Originally Posted by Nayt

I don't really want to see those insanely long cutscenes the 40'th time i'm in CM

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Well, the point is easy: if you are in a party where people watched them already chances are that they will all skip them. Otherwise if the cutscene goes on it's most likely because someone didn't watch it before or missed something the previous time. We waste so much time in any online game anyway (just think about a lobby) it isn't the couple of minutes for a cutscene to be a game breaker.

just because some1s seen the cutscene 20 times doesnt give them the right to vote to kick some1 who watchin a cutscene for the first time... if people wanna do speed runs theres a simple solution, find a group of ppl in ur server to do them with... its not fair on first timers gettin kicked for watchin somethin they havent seen b4. they r payin customers aswell they have as much right to watch them as any1 else does, if ppl get in a huff over that sort of stuff id vote to kick the 1s making the fuss long b4 even thinkin about kicking some1 for watchin a cutscene lolz

As many people have said, people who want to watch the cutscenes in the Duty Finder should be allowed to, and people who want speed runs should be making groups with friends, Linkshell allies, or Free Company members. Or something.

If party kick person who watch CS , he most likely do a GM call (harassement) and it will put end of party's speed run (or next runs) for sure

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Originally Posted by Vladislav

If party kick person who watch CS , he most likely do a GM call (harassement) and it will put end of party's speed run (or next runs) for sure

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GMs don't answer that fast. It could be DAYS before action is taken, IF action is taken.

Not to mention that the person who gets kicked for watching cutscenes might not even get told who voted to kick them. How would he know who to report for harassment? It'd make investigation take even longer.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

As many people have said, people who want to watch the cutscenes in the Duty Finder should be allowed to, and people who want speed runs should be making groups with friends, Linkshell allies, or Free Company members. Or something.

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EXACTLY!!!!!!!

I posted this on another thread, but this applies here just as well.

1) You have to have 75% of the votes. If its a 4 man dungeon it has to be unanimous; in an 8 man, 6 out of the 8 are required; in 24 man you have to have 18 of the votes.
2) New players cannot be kicked no matter what. Their name doesn't appear in the kick list.
3) You only get 3 kicks a day. That way it limits what the elitist will vote for.
4) If you get kicked you are warned. Twice in a day you are locked for 15 minutes. Three times an hour. On the fourth time you are locked out until a set time per region. (EX: 8:00 am PST)
5) If you kick someone you have the option to leave a highly censored message 25 characters or less that are visible on the Duty Finder screen of the kicked player until a check box is marked. Any locked out time (see above) doesn't start until this check box is checked.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Ok, so they're looking into it.

I still don't like the idea. I think people just need to behave like human beings. The problem is behavior. But we'll see what happens.

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Let me know if that spell ever enters into any game. LOL

I do agree with your opinion, but in light of control over all players, granting people the means by which to avoid such seems to be the only alternative.

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Originally Posted by Haniale

Also add a tutor system, but with no rewards. Players who are good people but bad at the game get to learn, players who would only go for the rewards and just grind the new players don't have a reason to impact them negatively.

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I like that. An option to 'stack my group with newbies' and tutor them or something... would be, once I was an old-Pro, something I'd go for even if it lacked a bonus for me. I like helping folks out... and random systems don't give me the option to do so as easily.

My GW2 guild, and back in the day my WoW guild both catered towards finding "newbs" to help out.

XI had a mentoring program that in the end didn't really help. (I know since the mentors I got in XI were pretty much ignoring everyone all the time.) I'd be glad to help out, but.. we'd need to be careful.

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

3) You only get 3 kicks a day. That way it limits what the elitist will vote for.
4) If you get kicked you are warned. Twice in a day you are locked for 15 minutes. Three times an hour. On the fourth time you are locked out until a set time per region. (EX: 8:00 am PST)

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If it was limited to 3, the jerks would just use their 3 to kick out "slow people"... I've seen countless threads where people on WoW forums and even GW2 forums complaining that it was unfair for them to be kicked for being a racist misogynist jerk who could only communicate in 4-letter words. And then... to see long lists of people agreeing with them and demanding devs punish people who kicked out rude players, as kicking was ONLY meant for booting "noobs", "casuals", "slow people", etc...


The problem is you have half a community that thinks the only fair and proper use of a kick is to kick people who fall into the category of the other half. AND vice versa...

These two types of players fundamentally do not agree on the purpose of grouping, the rules of engagement, and on who should get to go and who should have to sit out.

As such I cannot get behind your point #4 either... "casuals" would just end up getting locked out, and the more aggressive players would end up more able to 'control' access to the tool to their own kind.

More needed is better tools to splitting these two types of players so they don't collide so easily.

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Originally Posted by Freyar

XI had a mentoring program that in the end didn't really help. (I know since the mentors I got in XI were pretty much ignoring everyone all the time.) I'd be glad to help out, but.. we'd need to be careful.

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I think the best check on a tutor / mentor system is to make it one that gives no rewards for the mentors / tutors. That way is becomes volunteers who do it because they enjoy it - not to get the 'bonus items'.

I'd be there, once my level of skill here got to where it's gotten in WoW or GW2 - I'd be there despite any lack of rewards, as I find it funner to work with people who are learning and enjoy seeing people overcome challenges.

People who do it for the sake of the bonus items will be in one of two categories:

1. They provide a surplus of people who actually try to be helpful, even if it's for selfish ends, which is... well, helpful.
2. They fail to be helpful and can't get their items because nobody will vote for unhelpful twats who skip everything and don't help out.

Problem will solve itself.

I'm fine being rewarded for being helpful. Beats being helpful and then being called a suck nerd for standing up for people watching cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Blackard

Let me know if that spell ever enters into any game. LOL

I do agree with your opinion, but in light of control over all players, granting people the means by which to avoid such seems to be the only alternative.

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Which is kind of my issue. I'm not sure it is the only alternative. This is within our own control already. Our willingness to tolerate such behavior only encourages it. Speak out when you see it. Discourage it at every turn. If SE has to take measures to stop these things, it's because we as a community ourselves aren't doing enough to stop it when it happens. We share the responsibility here, and we shouldn't feel we have to look to SE to bail us out.

Can we stop it 100%? No. But the less we ourselves do to stop it the worse it will get. Peer pressure does more to stop the spread of bad behavior than any external controls.

There already abuse from afk and other nonsense. There will be always something no matter they add.

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Originally Posted by Coraline

There already abuse from afk and other nonsense. There will be always something no matter they add.

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AFK people can be kicked out, that's a legitimate use of the system, and probably its intended use.