Why cant we play Garlean empire?

I want to be a gunblade wielding fruimentari spy assassinating Lalafells :) Why cant we play Garlean Empire? Have they said anything about being able to play them later on?

I would expect the class to be playable in an expansion, but as far as the nationality, I doubt it.

You have threatened a Lalafell.

The nation of Lalafells now descends upon you.

At the very most, we'll be visiting Garlemald sometime in the future.

After completing the main story quests I found myself caring more for the Garlean Empire than I did for the hypocritical city states present on Eorzea. Ul'dah is full of starving refugees and the rich get richer whilst the poor get poorer. On top of that, the beast races were forced out into Thanalan and ended up relying on banditry for the sake of surviving. Limsa Lominsa isn't much better - the pirates stupidly broke a peace treaty with the Kobolds and the Gridanians are more than willing to stand by and watch strangers and refugees in their lands perish if the whimsical Elementals do not grant them their blessing.

I found myself very sympathetic towards the Garlean Empire. There's shades of grey, they've blood on their hands but they're more well-intentioned extremists than irredeemably evil. I'd love to be able to play one in the future and see Garlemald from the perspective of one of its inhabitants rather than the 'heroes' of Eorzea invading it.

One thing to point out as far as the elementals and Gridanian go -- it hasn't really been touched on in ARR that I've seen but the elementals are a very real, very deadly, very much in control in the Shroud. In 1.0, people who pissed off the elementals tended to get eaten by the forest, like dissolving into green light while screaming. Or worse, as I haven't seen any examples of 1.0's "wildlings" people taken by the the forest but still alive. The empire did not have much luck in the Shroud even with their tech in 1.0, mostly they were eaten. Gridania only exists because of the treaty between it and the elementals, otherwise a settlement of the size would never be able to exist in an area where the environment itself was quite literally out to kill it. And yes for the Gridanian's the treaty seems to mostly be "do as I say and anticipate my every whim" towards the elementals --their entire government and culture is based on this.

Not to say that Gridania does not make more than its share of morally dubious choices (you could argue that excepting the elmentals terms is one as children are fair game to them if they piss the elementals off) but if they want to have a city in the forest there is no other option than to obey the elementals whims.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

After completing the main story quests I found myself caring more for the Garlean Empire than I did for the hypocritical city states present on Eorzea. Ul'dah is full of starving refugees and the rich get richer whilst the poor get poorer. On top of that, the beast races were forced out into Thanalan and ended up relying on banditry for the sake of surviving. Limsa Lominsa isn't much better - the pirates stupidly broke a peace treaty with the Kobolds and the Gridanians are more than willing to stand by and watch strangers and refugees in their lands perish if the whimsical Elementals do not grant them their blessing.

I found myself very sympathetic towards the Garlean Empire. There's shades of grey, they've blood on their hands but they're more well-intentioned extremists than irredeemably evil. I'd love to be able to play one in the future and see Garlemald from the perspective of one of its inhabitants rather than the 'heroes' of Eorzea invading it.

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Yup during the endgame dungeon when Gaius was asking those questions after everything I have been through I said no if I believed in Eorzea. Personally after watching the 1.0 gridinia story on youtube it made me hate the elementals and I could see why the duskwights decided to stay in the caves. Oh and the fact they won't heal a dying man I was like what!? In this main story no one is a good guy here IMO heck I was struggling with picking a GC to join if I had the choice I would refused to join one.

In the end I just followed minfillia advice and using them to benefit myself.

Lets not forget being a black mage they would murder my friends on sight.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I found myself very sympathetic towards the Garlean Empire. There's shades of grey, they've blood on their hands but they're more well-intentioned extremists than irredeemably evil. I'd love to be able to play one in the future and see Garlemald from the perspective of one of its inhabitants rather than the 'heroes' of Eorzea invading it..

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Well intentioned huh? I know the 3 city states aren't the best and got worst after the whole bahumt being summoned and all but Garlean empire is still worst I don't see how saying 'join me or die' is well intentioned for the record I don't even see the people of eorzea invading Garlean empire when they in fact just want them out of eorzea

Because they're the antagonists? This is a FF game where you usually play as the 'underdog'/repressed country or people, not the aggressors. Besides, the Garlean Empire itself is evil - the game makes great pains to show this (after all, in 1.0 Gaius slaughtered the entire Ala Mhigan resistance single-handedly, shot the player's Path Companion at point blank range (without a second thought) and went to do the same to the player, then willing fought the Archons (and ended the battle with overkill by calling a cannon blast from his airship to take them all out!).

And don't get me started on Nael - how much more evil can you get than dropping a literal moon on a country? ;)

Having said that though, not all it's troops are the same - after all during ARR

you find a hermit in Eastern La Noscea named Drest who turns out was a Garlean pilot who was shot down while on a reconnaissance mission for the Empire by the Maelstrom - presumably he was the pilot of the wrecked Juggernaut rusting nearby - and has been hiding out in the wilderness ever since - he mentions he doesn't even believe in their propaganda and was forcibly drafted into the Garlean army and just wants to return home to his homeland to reunite with his wife and family.

Of course this is in contrast to how many Garlean soldiers are depicted as sneering, arrogant warmongers, but it did make the player think that just because someone is wearing a uniform, they may not follow the dogma that goes with it.

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Originally Posted by GiseleValkyrie

Well intentioned huh? I know the 3 city states aren't the best and got worst after the whole bahumt being summoned and all but Garlean empire is still worst I don't see how saying 'join me or die' is well intentioned for the record I don't even see the people of eorzea invading Garlean empire when they in fact just want them out of eorzea

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Well that big roe said his country was pure chaos before the empire came along his people would murder and kill each other. Personally I think there is no good guy here I just fight for myself/friends thats it.

Also, in 1.xx, it is shown that the Garlean Empire actually brainwashed children of lands they concurred. On top of that, it is made mention in several places, that when the Empire takes over a land, they uses these new "citizens" as front line troops, often forcibly.

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years. The so called "poachers" could just be families living off the resources of the forest, but because they work outside the Elemental's will are branded as law breakers.

Gridania is an odd case, as although the elementals are definitely ruthless, dangerous and unpredictable, you also have to remember they preceded any of the five races appearing in Eorzea. They regarded the Black Shroud as theirs because the forest always been theirs and theirs alone - everyone else are just interlopers.

Having said that though, the stories of the forest being an angry aggressor who doesn't tolerate insolence lightly is mostly either Gridanian propaganda or grossly exaggerated - even the Garleans were able to storm Moonspore Grove and slaughter the sylphs with little effort, and, by the time of ARR, erect a stronghold right on Gridania's doorstep. Either way, although it might not be an easy thing to accept, there definitely is reason to the madness of having a nation's every move and decision dictated by the unpredictable whims of an immortal race of aetheric fairies.

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Originally Posted by Niota

Also, in 1.xx, it is shown that the Garlean Empire actually brainwashed children of lands they concurred. On top of that, it is made mention in several places, that when the Empire takes over a land, they uses these new "citizens" as front line troops, often forcibly.

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years. The so called "poachers" could just be families living off the resources of the forest, but because they work outside the Elemental's will are branded as law breakers.

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Yeah there is a sidequest with a "poacher" saying that she was just trying to feed her little brother and you let her go the quest giver was quite upset. Considering they helped you in the main quest I don't think all of them are bad in my opinion.

Plus not healing a dying man because of the "wood" made me angry to an insane degree considering they are fighting for their homeland. Personally I would not want to live in a place like that, I bet the only reason why they are revising these rules about outsiders etc because bahamut owned the elementals and weakened them.

Plus the uldhans standing by while a refugee was going to be sold into sexual slavery the whole of raubhan speech was about stop being greedy bastards and asshats.

Pure-blooded Garleans all have third-eyes. It's that little white "zit" looking thing on their foreheads. Cid and Nero are the only people who have theirs shown, and the helms of some of the Garlean Soldiers have little fixtures that could allow for a third-eye kind of vision on them.

In the case of Cid, he keeps his third eye concealed under his goggles - you only learn about it once he takes them off. Not to mention, Cid even states it's a not-very-well-known fact about Garleans.

Which of course, makes Rhitatyn the only non-Garlean member of the Tribunes (he's a Galka).

I don't want to spoil White Mage quest line here so read at your own risk.
[Sorry if the hidden text isn't hidden. Never used that code before. =^_^=]

In the WHM quest line in ARR, it is revealed that the Elementals are the trees themselves. When they feel threatened, they summon creatures to defend themselves. It is the job of a Pajal to slay these creatures and soothe the tree. Otherwise the trees just call forth more and more creatures that actually start attacking the tree itself.

[Spoiler End]

So it is kind of easy to see how the Garleans could force their way into the Shroud and also how people could live without catering to their every whim. Centuries of tradition is hard to break though.

For students of philosophy, you'll notice that the Empire, particularly the explanations in Praet, are very Nietzschean.

They seek to pernamently wrest control of the land from the hands of whimsical "gods"--gods which we have been shown are little more than primals for the player races. Ultimately they advocate control over their own destiny through strength of group and country.

If anything their struggle against the elementals makes me like them more. They are fundamentally no stronger than us, yet they refuse to bow before powers which we treat as unquestionable. They don't need the blessing of unseen gods to validate their lives, they don't recognize the authority of those gods--once god is dead, his frightful shadow will be yet present in caves throughout the world.

In terms of a philosophical basis, I think they're the good guys. We only fight them cus we happend to be in Eorzea. What does Eorzea really believe in? Freedom, self determination, equality, respect of soverignty? Pah. Just ask the kobolds how much eorzean peoples respect soverignty. Ask the refugees how much equality is valued.

Era after era, catastrophic devastation has been brought to the lands at the hands of the gods and primals for one reason or another. The Empire simply seeks to end it pernamently. What's Eorzea's plan to solve the problem? Keep sending bands of hapless soldiers and adventurers to get slaughtered by endlessly re-summoned primals (as we learn is SPOILER the motivation of the 'bad guy' in smn quest). How many low ranking GC troops have been slaughtered by ifrit number 900? Not to mention the whole, quiet execution of those who have been branded thing. The Empire, at least, is willing to fight for an ultimate resolution. So they gain resources by conquering other groups--do not the high houses of Ul'dah or the priate bands of Limsa do the same on a smaller and less successful scale?

Oh yeah when I first found out tempered people are executed I was like what? daam. Oh on limsa breaking the peace treaty with the kobolds I was really angry, Y'sholta was right in that situation and what was worse I picked them as my GC. I simply said this is the reason why they can't solve the primal situation they all of talk of peace equality and all that jack and fail to live up to it.

Personally I felt sorry for raubahn he is trying very hard but the people are not changing and the very guards are corrupt too.

Now I am not saying the garleans are cool/good too just saying everyone here is grey.

Thing with Ul'Dah, it's kinda like how America is atm - you have the 1% who doesn't give a damn about everyone else, and there's a few in the wealthy who actually DO care, but are unable to really do shit about it.

Nanamo has her hands tied with the Syndicate (a faction that has the bidding of the Brass Blades and Alacran at their whim) telling her to just sit still and be a useless little bitch. Raubahn's only one voice on the Syndicate, and they're not likely to listen to him - especially since he's far more loyal to the Sultana than to them (did I forget to mention he's formerly Ala Mhigan?).

At this point, Ul'Dah would have to go into civil war to resolve an issue like that - which sends the Amal'jaa a plain signal that "Hey, Ul'Dah's in deep shit, let's go cause havoc".

In the case of Limsa and the Kobolds, both sides knew neither would hold their end of the bargain for long - the whole treaty was no better than a cease fire at best.

Gridania and the Sylphs are getting along only because Frixio and co. haven't been tempered yet - and we haven't been stupid enough to pierce deep into their homeland. Ramuh's unlike Ifrit and Garuda, in that he's not gonna stick a fork in us if we leave him and his Sylph friends alone.

In the case of Garlemald, Gaius knew he had to work with what he had available, given that Emperor Solus was on his deathbed (though one wonders why Gaius didn't rush to his side, since the Emperor gave up Eorzea after the whole Carteneau mess).

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Originally Posted by Niota

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years.

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The Ixal, who have been regected by the elementals also live in the shroud. My opinion is not that being at odds with the elementals does not make living in the shroud impossible, but that living at odds with the elementals would make a city of the size of Gridania impossible, with erozea's current capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Having said that though, the stories of the forest being an angry aggressor who doesn't tolerate insolence lightly is mostly either Gridanian propaganda or grossly exaggerated - even the Garleans were able to storm Moonspore Grove and slaughter the sylphs with little effort, and, by the time of ARR, erect a stronghold right on Gridania's doorstep.

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Again I might be missing something but I've never really gotten the impression that the elementals care about the sentients living in the forest, as they care more about them not messing with the forest. So I don't really see the elementals ever expending much of an effort defending any group living in the Shroud (bedsides the occasional warning, perhaps from individual elementals) so much as the Shroud itself. If I recall correctly there was a quest in 1.0's GC where the elementals did actually attack some of the Garleans (the one where you had to fight the Magitek). I'd say that the Garleans have learned from their experiences in 1.0. I wonder how many resources it takes to keep the casturm in the Shroud functional, though.

[SPOILER] As for the elementals being the trees themselves I'm going to have to disagree with you. Rather I think that particular elemental lives in that tree. In the 1.0 WHM/CNJ/Gridania quest lines the elementals are shown to be sort of environmental sprites that can live in natural objects, although I suppose that could have been retconned [/SPOILER]

Although I suppose we're getting off topic. Just because the Garleans are capable of logic, and that the city states aren't perfect doesn't necessarily mean that they are the "good guys". The information we get in the storyline is fairly limited right now, but I suppose only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Niota

I don't want to spoil White Mage quest line here so read at your own risk.
[Sorry if the hidden text isn't hidden. Never used that code before. =^_^=]

In the WHM quest line in ARR, it is revealed that the Elementals are the trees themselves. When they feel threatened, they summon creatures to defend themselves. It is the job of a Pajal to slay these creatures and soothe the tree. Otherwise the trees just call forth more and more creatures that actually start attacking the tree itself.

[Spoiler End]

So it is kind of easy to see how the Garleans could force their way into the Shroud and also how people could live without catering to their every whim. Centuries of tradition is hard to break though.

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*Reads spoiler* Bloody hell I simply don't like the country even more now.

It wouldn't be a good world if it wasn't grey but the events in the current Era seem to be mirroring that of the 3rd Era. Which I still don't want to spoil anything so....read at your own risk.

During the 3rd Umbral/Astral Eras (can't remember exactly which), there was an empire similar to the Garlean Empire called the Allag. They had taken over even more of the world then the Garleans and not only had mastery of Magiteck but of also magic in general as this was about the time that the schools of Black and White magics where formed. So even if they are doing a "better job" now of asserting control, it may just culminate in an arms race that sends the world back into an Umbral Era. Minfillia even states that people, beast tribe or no, turn to "gods" and "higher powers" when they are desperate and the Garlean Conquest simply fuels these feelings of uneasy and desperation.

It is also made quite clear that we, as adventurers, do not originate from Eorzea. This could mean you are already playing a "Garlean Empiral". One who's homeland was concurred. It could be that there are also very few pure-blooded Garleans in the army let alone the Empire. They do originate from an island-nation.

I definitely support the Garlean Empire. I don't care if they're evil or if players want to just accept such a black and white story because it's Final Fantasy. Think outside the box. The Garleans have actual technology and things like science and education. The Eorzeans are primitive hunter gatherers and they should be conquered.

I personally role play my character as a Garlean spy. Getting rid of Gaius only because he went crazy. Can't wait until a time when I can take out Alphinaud and convince Alisaie to join the empire.

Ive wanted to join the Empire since Nael Van Darnus first stood before me and almost made it seem like he was asking me to join him i was throwing my money at the screen but nothing was working. And whn i got to the End of the main scenario Guias ask do i believe in Eorzia it actually gave us the option to say no which i totaly said no i dont. i HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTEEEE it. Serious aside from Cid Biggs and Wedge, and Tartaru everyone else can burn and i wouldnt bat an eye. I WANT to join the empire i want to achieve power. I want to walk the path of Nael Van Darnus, I want to become a Legatus. Command respect! i want to serve the Emperor!

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

I definitely support the Garlean Empire. I don't care if they're evil or if players want to just accept such a black and white story because it's Final Fantasy. Think outside the box. The Garleans have actual technology and things like science and education. The Eorzeans are primitive hunter gatherers and they should be conquered.

I personally role play my character as a Garlean spy. Getting rid of Gaius only because he went crazy. Can't wait until a time when I can take out Alphinaud and convince Alisaie to join the empire.

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Lol eorzea does not even have clocks. When you find one the people at the church don't know what it is. Its just something I found kinda funny my bro said they must use sun dials. XD

ah right, we should all just forget about the fact that the garleans are the ones who summoned dalamud which in turn released the elder primal, bahamut, who destroyed Eor'zea with his flames of destruction. So yeah sure, let's support them, i'm sure that it will be a brighter future for the realm. And when we do, and let us all get on our knees, put on some lube as bahamut screws us over for the second time

Just look around Mor Dhona - that Twelve-forsaken wasteland is a result of the Empire's meddling. If they hadn't came calling with the Agrius in 1562 6AE then Mor Dhona would have still been the fertile arcadia it was two decades before.

However, due to the crash of the Agrius rupturing the seal on the lake, the resulting explosion forever disrupted the aether flow through the area (and thus, Eorzea as a whole), and sent the place into a long, inexorable decline. Vegetation died, the land itself crystallized and the local wildlife mutated into aggressive abominations. Yes, the Empire are the good guys, really. /sarcasm :p

I don't ever recall calling the empire good guys. All I am saying is that the city states are not all that "good" either.

I would love to play as a character in the Garlean empire. My sith was ruthless when I played SWTOR, don't see what would be so wrong with allowing players to be the Garlean empire here. I would love to have the Gun shields and the Magitek armor. After I first heard about and then researched ARR i was totally shocked that they didn't allow you to play the Garleans, I mean THAT would be the best PVP Scenarios.

As in real life, there is (most of the time) no true totally righteous and totally evil faction.

Even if the leaders are corrupt or totally righteous, the faction as a whole is near always never totally bad or good.

In fact, I think FF14 makes pain to show that each side has their goods and bads. Their moral ethics and their sins.

In the end each faction are made up of people and people are never sinless.

In fact, in real life, if a mass amount of refugees flock to your country. Will you give them free rein to do what they like in your backyard. Look at Australia, the Middle East, America, Europe, etc. In reality, as a whole most people dislike refugees "invading" their countries.

Look at China history of the Middle Kingdom, the good and the bad is oh so extreme either way.

Remember Roman, they are alot like the Garleans. I think the Romans are more ruthless and cruel comparatively. But on the other hand, Rome did much good too.

Look at the British how they treated the Indians, South East Asian, etc. But they brought alot of disciplines, structure and order too.

Look at America, if you think America is all great. Look at the countries they "helped" or "occupied". Look at the mess they made in Vietnam and Cambodia, etc. But at the same thing they did good too.

In FF14 no nation is all good or bad. And I kind of like that. As in real life, nothing is fully black or white. Every nation or faction is neither good or bad. But they have one thing is common, they all want to advance themselves even at the expense of other factions.

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Originally Posted by shinros

Lol eorzea does not even have clocks. When you find one the people at the church don't know what it is. Its just something I found kinda funny my bro said they must use sun dials. XD

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It also has sapient magical devices. Science, Technology, Culture are not some sort of Tech tree out of Civilization. People discover what they discover and it propegates as is useful. Eorzea has run into magitech we can see it being adapted they just don't have decades of Soviet style forced mechanization like the Empire had.

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Originally Posted by Ferrick

ah right, we should all just forget about the fact that the garleans are the ones who summoned dalamud which in turn released the elder primal, bahamut, who destroyed Eor'zea with his flames of destruction.

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You're blaming an entire empire for one guy and his troops that willingly broke away and decided to destroy the world instead of conquer it as it had been ordered to him. The meteor thing was all Nael, not really from the empire's agenda (in 1.0 both Cid and Gaius mentioned that it was a crazy idea and that it would cause destruction on a then unknown level).

But the Empire itself was responsible for Dalamud's fall in the first place - Cid was the original engineer on the project, the Emperor fully supported it right up to the Battle of Carteneau - only Gaius was ironically the only one who felt it was overkill. Cid of course also realized the insanity of the whole thing (apparently when an experiment on the project went horribly wrong), and switched allegiances. But the fact is, Dalamud and the Calamity was always the fault of the Empire itself, not just Nael.

Really, Garlemald is a nation with a severe inferiority complex due to their natural ineptitude with magic. So they created magitek and conquered virtually everything outside of Eorzea. It's as simple as that.

Because this isn't WoW, and we aren't the Alliance Vs Horde. We are all on the same side fighting to defend Eorzea against primals/Garlean Oppression/some other things I wont say due to spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Because this isn't WoW, and we aren't the Alliance Vs Horde. We are all on the same side fighting to defend Eorzea against primals/Garlean Oppression/some other things I wont say due to spoilers.

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Actually that's not an accurate comparison. This would be in no way Alliance vs. Horde. The way it is set up is more Star Wars esque: Republic/Jedi vs Empire/Sith. I mean if you actually take a look at it the correlations between this game and that are blaringly obvious.

The reason why you can't play the Garlean Empire is probably for the same reasons you can't play or ally with the Thalmor in Skyrim. They are an antagonistic organization, and play a role in the world's troubles if not directly being their source.

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Originally Posted by Niota

I don't want to spoil White Mage quest line here so read at your own risk.
[Sorry if the hidden text isn't hidden. Never used that code before. =^_^=]

In the WHM quest line in ARR, it is revealed that the Elementals are the trees themselves. When they feel threatened, they summon creatures to defend themselves. It is the job of a Pajal to slay these creatures and soothe the tree. Otherwise the trees just call forth more and more creatures that actually start attacking the tree itself.

[Spoiler End]

So it is kind of easy to see how the Garleans could force their way into the Shroud and also how people could live without catering to their every whim. Centuries of tradition is hard to break though.

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In the 1.0 storyline the elementals live in everything. In trees and woods, in rocks and stones, in water and also in leather.
In the conjurer quest in 1.0 you go to a rock to learn how to speak to the elementals.

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Originally Posted by LiquidOuroboros

I want to be a gunblade wielding fruimentari spy assassinating Lalafells :) Why cant we play Garlean Empire? Have they said anything about being able to play them later on?

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I recently noted that the commands list in autotranslate includes /imperialsalute. When I tried it, it didn't do anything, but then, I'm not an imperial...

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

But the Empire itself was responsible for Dalamud's fall in the first place - Cid was the original engineer on the project, the Emperor fully supported it right up to the Battle of Carteneau - only Gaius was ironically the only one who felt it was overkill. Cid of course also realized the insanity of the whole thing (apparently when an experiment on the project went horribly wrong), and switched allegiances. But the fact is, Dalamud and the Calamity was always the fault of the Empire itself, not just Nael.

Really, Garlemald is a nation with a severe inferiority complex due to their natural ineptitude with magic. So they created magitek and conquered virtually everything outside of Eorzea. It's as simple as that.

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Not just that. This whole mess with the primals? That's their fault too. Midgardsormr was the guardian of the aether who kept the primals safely locked up--until the Empire killed him at Silvertear (that's his corpse in the massive wreckage of the Agrius in Mor Dhona).

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Originally Posted by Conradus

I recently noted that the commands list in autotranslate includes /imperialsalute. When I tried it, it didn't do anything, but then, I'm not an imperial...

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In part of the story...

(spoilers)

You have to impersonate some imperial soldiers to sneak into CM and rescue Minfilia and the other Scions that have been captured. Part of this quest requires you to stalk some imperial soldiers to see their salute and learn it. Once you learn it, you can use the emote /imperialsalute.

Garlemad's objectives are noble, but its methods abhorrent. I don't judge it to be evil, nor Eorzea.

A question that's not really out or in topic: for an American, do you even wonder about the parallels between this story and the one between yours and the Amerindians?