No plans to fix the atrocious netcode?

So, this thread got locked with a semi-canned response telling everyone in it to go post in the website feedback forum instead. I guess that means the piss-poor 300ms client polling that can and does absolutely ruin the game for (some) players isn't a concern for the devs?

Between this and the "Yeah, combat kind of sucks, but we balanced the game around our clunky, cumbersome, unresponsive gameplay" reply to the off-GCD thread, it's good to know that nobody should be paying money for this game.

FFXIV is pretty, and it can be fun, but the simple fact remains that this game is, on a mechanical level, utterly inferior to a lot of other similarly-and-lesser-priced options on the market. ARR Developers really need to pull their heads out of their asses and address some core gameplay issues rather than stating "working as intended" or ignoring them outright.

If FFXIV ARR is working as intended, SE sure as hell didn't do a very good job. They should maybe consider firing most of the staff and remaking the OWAIT...

I honestly think that they simply feel that the slower/clunky gameplay with those delays is a signature for final fantasy now, and that they actually WANT it to stay that way. They easily coulda fixed all that shit back in the games development process if they really wanted to, lol.

If they wanted slow and clunky, they should have programmed it that way - not had it be a by-product of crap netcode and non-existent client prediction.

i think its accepted as a bug

It's probably fine in Japan Datacenters so nothing to worry guys. The JP Community is fine

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

It's probably fine in Japan Datacenters so nothing to worry guys. The JP Community is fine

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Japan data centers use the same code as the NA datacenters. The only difference is that EU servers are based in NA and people in EU get 300 ping to servers they should be getting sub 100 to. I get 70ms to my server and have no issues with lag or ability delay at all (not including the animation delay that was intentional)

Net-code seems fine. Mechanics are running as expected. GCD is acceptable.

Solution: Go play a different game if you don't like this one.

-RobotoInu

*EDIT* as for the ping. 300ms is still playable in an MMO. although, you may want to try other servers to test to see where you can get a better ping.

I'm on a Japanese server, the only issue I have is when there is like 500 players in the zone at one spot.

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

Japan data centers use the same code as the NA datacenters. The only difference is that EU servers are based in NA and people in EU get 300 ping to servers they should be getting sub 100 to. I get 70ms to my server and have no issues with lag or ability delay at all (not including the animation delay that was intentional)

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Oh you do, you just don't realize it. Thanks to the internal tick rate being 300ms, everyone has a bare minimum of an effective 300ms latency, regardless of where you live. Of course living outside of the US or Japan exacerbates the issue (to the point where if you're in Europe, Australia or any other area like that you're better off playing any other MMO, hell I get better performance with EVE Online as an Australian and the server is in LONDON).

Stop making excuses for SquareEnix. Other MMOs do NOT have this issue (other than SWTOR but even they managed to fix that I think, at least I haven't heard people complaining about it for ages, unless it's just because nobody plays it anymore).

"Well then move to a Japanese server" I hear you say. I was on Tonberry during Beta Phase 4, it wasn't much better than it is right now. Even though it's around 150ms to Japan vs. the 300ms to Montreal, you still have that internal 300ms to worry about, which (in the best case scenario) halves the benefit of playing on JP servers.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Dunno why they don't just come out with this one already xD

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LOL. This!

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Originally Posted by RobotoInu

Net-code seems fine.

<snip>

*EDIT* as for the ping. 300ms is still playable in an MMO. although, you may want to try other servers to test to see where you can get a better ping.

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Yeah, the netcode seems fine. Totally fine.

As to your edit, whether you realize it or not, everyone is playing with a variable ping that can be up to 300ms + your normal ping. In case you couldn't be bothered to familiarize yourself with the thread I linked, here's the short version:

Per Yoshi himself, the server handles all calculations regarding player positioning. The server polls the client every 300ms to determine whether a player moves or not. It uses no predictive functions and doesn't re-confirm with the client before determining a result. This means that it is entirely possible to run clear of an AOE attack, but if you were cutting it close and are unlucky, the last time the server bothered to check your position before the cast completed still had you inside the AOE area. I have been killed by boss mechanics standing in the only safe area of a fight, on top of teammates that survived.

If you play any class with spells, you can see this polling in action very easily. Start casting a spell and then move near the end of the cast. Sometimes the spell will interrupt. Sometimes, the cast will complete. This is because of the polling. Similarly, if you quickly move and then initiate a cast as soon as you stop moving, sometimes the cast will work, and other times it will generate a false "interrupt" because the polling intervals (and trust in the client) are so poor that the server thought you were still moving, and so it interrupts the spell.

Simple solution is to increase the frequency of checks.
Though i imagine server stability or general ping times could suffer as a result.
As an Australian on an NA server, i find the game perfectly playable. Hell, if it was fixed, i'd probably just get confused. Just as i got confused when i played XIV on a friends PC while visiting Arizona. such low pings are NOT what Im used to playing with XD
Then again .. i played WoW for 4 years, even raiding up through and including pre nerf Illidan while on dialup. You just get used to it after a while, and play around it. Becomes second nature.

The polling rate needs to be increased. The worry, as mentioned above is causing server instability. So you either 1) keep it how it is, and let the raiding scene die out, or 2) lower it until the servers become unstable - then optimize the code, or beef the server machines themselves.

yea the thread locking move was really uncalled for, it just only confirm they don't give a rat's ass about improving game response and fluidity.

Agreed, something needs to be improved.

Heres's the crux:

A) I run out of AoE, client tells server "he's out", server acknowledges within 50 ms (it's been 250ms since last tick) so I'm good. 200 ms later the explosion goes off, I live.
B) I run out of Aoe, client tells server "he's out", server just ticked 300 ms, 50ms ago, won't acknowledge move for 250 ms. 200 ms later explosion goes off, I die.

So even with a 10ms ping, you can still get hit all depending on where you fall in the update window. Knowing stuff (ala people's defense for Titan) does not excuse the fact you can die even if you move with a superb ping all because you fall slightly out of a longer-than-human response time.

You cant call bad netcode a "bug" call it what it is "bad" period.

I see this as the second end to a game that could have been great but was poorly managed. This is obviously a major issue and the fact that there is no intention to fix it shows the animosity SE is showing to its player base. Every mmo has problems out of the gate but usually there is an intention to fix something that is broken. Raiding in this game is broken and it will be the 2nd death of a FF MMO thanks for blowing it again SE.

I completely agree with the OP. The current situation is completely unacceptable. I have a 60ms ping to the server and aoes are more of a pain in the rear to dodge than other games I've played where my ping time is 4-5x that.

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Originally Posted by Vestall

I see this as the second end to a game that could have been great but was poorly managed. This is obviously a major issue and the fact that there is no intention to fix it shows the animosity SE is showing to its player base. Every mmo has problems out of the gate but usually there is an intention to fix something that is broken. Raiding in this game is broken and it will be the 2nd death of a FF MMO thanks for blowing it again SE.

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No intent to fix it? We haven't even had a major update yet, game is only a month old. Jeez

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Originally Posted by Sylve

No intent to fix it? We haven't even had a major update yet, game is only a month old. Jeez

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Dont go "jeez" this isnt a bug or an exploit or something that needs to be patched. This is bad coding / networking its not a minor issue dude. This is like buying a brand new car and they forget to mention the acceleration sticks. like shame!!

Agree Totally with a Aussie 310-370 ping its a "will or wont i die this Aoe" honestly its completely ruining dungeons for me and i'm not seeing a point in Resubbing if i cannot even pass things because of where i live.

Tired of Wipes due to delay issues..never had these issues in any other mmo ever.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

game is only a month old. Jeez

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Add 3 years to that, thanks!

SE must be ashamed of it for ignoring the posts and even closing some of them...
It's not that they don't care. It's that they know it's a problem, but they decided to go for it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Unruhe

Yeah, the netcode seems fine. Totally fine.

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Completely agree with you.

This home made engine is coded poorly, the netcode is horrible and the tickrates are too high. I can play other mmos better than this one, with a 5* higher ping.

They copied so much from other games, they should've used an engine that actually works.

This is the reason we won't sub btw (oh and the lack of content).

I can't believe how SE thinks this is fine / working as intended (the lock of the 70 pages thread is message enough for me). The current situation is complete and utter bullshit. It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right, it's gambling in a minimum 300ms time window. It's broken, period.

you can add me to the disgust of this one. it is BS. at first when I was getting hit I thought it was me because nobody else I saw was complaining till I came to the forums...300ms polling? seriously SE? this is 2013 and the game isnt set up to be a slow pace. I shouldnt be hit by a boss monster when I'm certain everything was done to avoid it. then bam! I'm hit because the servers poll everything and pretty much ignore the polling of the client? what kind of idiot thinks this is a good idea? you want to keep that stupid polling slow down the pace of the game.

just sayin

its an added difficulty and gives a challange to players who want to challange themselves most /sarcasm

cant wait for what you get when you complete the "Extreme modes", most likely you will get 1 shot by anything lol or more added mechanics that test your lag even more.
ifrit garuda and titan (tripple sufferings)

fix lag please even with vpn im getting 300 ping to server still feels like 800-1k ping atleast.

Yeah, its really bad. This is what makes Titan HM unbeatable for some players. Definitely a game breaker for many.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

No intent to fix it? We haven't even had a major update yet, game is only a month old. Jeez

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There was a 70-odd page thread debating this topic and how it pertains to current, one-shot-filled end-game design. It was locked by a moderator. The moderator told us to continue the discussion on the Website Feedback subforum.

That's as "no intent to fix it" as it gets.

I pose a question to the people in this thread. Why not post where they said to about said issue instead of the GD as they told you to go there? Means they're more likely to look at the issue if a lot of people post there instead of here.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

I pose a question to the people in this thread. Why not post where they said to about said issue instead of the GD as they told you to go there? Means they're more likely to look at the issue if a lot of people post there instead of here.

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They told us to post in "Website Feedback" -- What part of any of the posts on this topic (or topics on the same subject) implies that it belongs there? SE just doesn't want people highlighting their inexcusable netcode on subforums that actually get a lot of views.

Edit -- It appears that the original thread was unlocked a few days ago. I don't tend to check locked threads, so hadn't visited it in a while. I went back to get the link to the post where the mod told us to go to "Website Feedback" and found the thread reopened. The link in question was also changed to direct to the "gameplay" subforum.

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Originally Posted by Unruhe

There was a 70-odd page thread debating this topic and how it pertains to current, one-shot-filled end-game design. It was locked by a moderator. The moderator told us to continue the discussion on the Website Feedback subforum.

That's as "no intent to fix it" as it gets.

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"no intent to fix it" will be when a Developer or YoshiP comes out with a statement that tells us "No we will not change this".

In all likelihood, they are testing various ways with which to solve this.
Would you rather they updated us every minute with whatever scheme they were working on to fix it? I sure as hell don't want the confusion resulting from that, the forums would detonate with the amount of armchair experts each claiming that every proposed solution is a failure.

No, we don't need any information right now aside from possibly a "oh hey guys we are looking into it". But we both know what the forums will do with that sentence, don't we. We have made our views known, we have made the situation as it stands known, we have done all we can do to inform them of the issue.
Now we wait for the major patch, 2.1, to be detailed to us a little more than just new dungeons + PvP.

Lastly, I'm an Australian on an NA server, I've downed every single dungeon all the way up to and including HM Garuda. Once i get more Darklight, i fully intend to clear HM Titan with my Free Company, regardless of a fix, i will simply do my best to stay alive. Impossibility be damned, I've played MMOs for years with far worse than 600 (combined between normal ping and <pos> checking) latency and did perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by Unruhe

So, this thread got locked with a semi-canned response telling everyone in it to go post in the website feedback forum instead. I guess that means the piss-poor 300ms client polling that can and does absolutely ruin the game for (some) players isn't a concern for the devs?

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so you have access to the netcode codebase to tell us how piss poor it actually is? Wow, what position do you hold at SE?

Idk, I don't find the combat clunky or unresponsive. Maybe I'm just lucky?

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Agree Totally with a Aussie 310-370 ping

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You're obviously trying to connect to the North American servers. You can't seriously tell me you get those pings to the JP servers, which are not that far away from you? You realize that there are english communities on the JP servers, especially the legacy servers and specific other non-legacy servers?

You should seriously consider transfering to a world on the JP data center. Just because they're in Japan, it doesn't mean they're JP ONRY. They're not.

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That's as "no intent to fix it" as it gets.

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That doesn't in any way mean "no intent to fix."

This 300ms polling is a game-breaking issue for me, and I really hope they do fix it somehow; no client prediction is also very bad considering all the existing titles using it, and therefore theoretical methods available.

My guess is that a much, much lower interval would at least be a solution (30ms max would be acceptable, I guess); client prediction (by interpolation or extrapolation, I don't know) should be considered too. Most AAA MMORPG do this, and it's just expected for an enjoyable and actually challenging PvE/PvP. Right now it's frustrating, and since I don't do "rage" in games, it just makes me laugh at how badly this netcode was designed everytime I get hit by an AoE that I had seen myself escaping on the client.

This is why I did not resub, it's terrible in almost every dungeon

I experience the same problem with getting dmg even though I was already outside the marked area before it disappeared but I agree with the people saying that SE will fix it. I remember other mmos where dungeons etc where unplayable because of server crashes/freezes ms spikes for months after launch. So while annoying it is not as gamebreaking as people make it out to be. There are worse examples.

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Originally Posted by RobotoInu

Net-code seems fine. Mechanics are running as expected. GCD is acceptable.

Solution: Go play a different game if you don't like this one.

-RobotoInu

*EDIT* as for the ping. 300ms is still playable in an MMO. although, you may want to try other servers to test to see where you can get a better ping.

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Ya sure have low standards... And telling a paying customer to "go play some other game" sure is the right thing to say here

Titan HM is exactly the same as Ifrit 1.0 eruptions. Love the game but this is a huge disappointment. You dodge by prediction, i.e. it's already happened server side. I thought this was one of the main issues that lead to 2.0. Come on SE, give us some update please.

P.S. Does anyone close to the server have it any better? I am UK and ping 85ms to Ragnarok.

Edit: Read this http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-fix-something.

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Originally Posted by RobotoInu

Net-code seems fine. Mechanics are running as expected. GCD is acceptable.

Solution: Go play a different game if you don't like this one.

-RobotoInu

*EDIT* as for the ping. 300ms is still playable in an MMO. although, you may want to try other servers to test to see where you can get a better ping.

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This was about the dumbest thing you could have posted. Go play on another server? Oh yea you mean the one that is located in the SAME PLACE? That's going to help ping a whole lot.

The code maybe functional if you live within 6 hours of the servers but for people that don't it's atrocious. 300ms is playable in most MMO's and it would be in this one as well if it wasn't for the fact that a 300ms ping gets you one shot in most end game fights. I'm running at around a 120-130ms ping and I have to be out of aoe areas before the cast hits 50% or I will be hit by it. That's not "working as intended" that's just flat out broken.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Lastly, I'm an Australian on an NA server, I've downed every single dungeon all the way up to and including HM Garuda.

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Get back to us after HM Titan. Until then the ping difference isn't an issue. HM Titan and in coil it's a very big issue