Ninja needs its knees broken

It's been too long.

This job has everything, with minimal risk to dying, high kill potential, insane utility, high damage at range (both sustain and burst), high damage up close (both sustain and burst), a sure fire kill on their LB, insane mobility and escape.

The job has literally no downsides, no trade offs, no weaknesses.

Why?

SE balance your classes bro and break Ninja's knees.

It got nerfed once again and will probably keep getting them until they are in line with the rest in winrate.

I honestly just think Seiton Tenchou should be replaced, I think a guaranteed death if you snapshot at <50% HP is just utter BS.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

It's been too long.

This job has everything, with minimal risk to dying, high kill potential, insane utility, high damage at range (both sustain and burst), high damage up close (both sustain and burst), a sure fire kill on their LB, insane mobility and escape.

The job has literally no downsides, no trade offs, no weaknesses.

Why?

SE balance your classes bro and break Ninja's knees.

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In what context are we talking about? FLs or CC?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I honestly just think Seiton Tenchou should be replaced, I think a guaranteed death if you snapshot at <50% HP is just utter BS.

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The more I've been thinking about it, and while NIN is definitely the most egregious of those "screw you in particular" LBs, I'm starting to think that those single target nukes are problematic overall and never feel exceptionally good when you're on the receiving hand. Now then, you'll tell me, most of the other ones have counters and usually require some setup or skill to use properly, and I'd agree to an extent. For example you have the MNK one that on its own is fine but still only requires a 2 button mash to insta kill most of the squishies unless they have some form of good mitigation (and even then it's not always enough because you don't spend your time at 100% HP anyway). Or the SAM one that is avoidable or baitable, but at the same time impossible to dodge properly on AOE heavy jobs. I'd even put the MCH one in the ballot even though it's the most cumbersome one to pull off properly and you can defend against it better.

Somehow I wonder if that kind of design for LBs is really good for the fun of the game. Well I guess it's a fun source of dopamine for the player using them, sure.

Reinyboy has it right. It's way too good once you get timing down.

NIN is completely fine. It has *been* completely fine, going all the way back to s1. Nearly all of the nerfs are more targeted at them being hilariously broken in Frontlines, with only minor impacts on CC.

NIN is the only class that has to decide between using resources for offense or defense. If they're doing too much damage, you're not pressuring them enough.

Seiton is fine, idiocy of instant death mechanics in a game with low tickrate aside. I've seen many, many different Seiton attempts fail even when I was below 50% because a heal hit just before Seiton took its snapshot. It's really funny watching a NIN stabbing you in Guard when you have 20% HP for no effect.

Seiton needs a complete rework, as does Zantetsuken and boosted Chainsaw, but it's not broken or overpowered.

What do you mean they are constantly nerfing it because it can still kill the drk and drg doing 4m damage and killing 30+ sometimes.

Nerfs and buffs don't necessarily mean a class is "fixed" or "broken". You could give Paladin an extra 2000 potency on its 3 filler actions and while it would, strictly speaking, be a buff, it would not meaningfully impact PLD's performance. It would still be comfortably in last place for gross damage in most games and the extra potency on its filler attacks would probably not make it more deadly.

Similarly, nerfing Seiton buff duration by 1 sec here or there or increasing Shukuchi cooldown by 5 sec here or there does not suddenly shift NIN's performance in any meaningful way. It's a nerf in the strictest of senses, but it's not really going to impact them in a practical sense. Eventually they might add up to something that shifts them, but individually they are meaningless.

The lb is fine, it's the bloat of their kit that's the problem.

You can't have a job that has and strong melee damage, and strong ranged damage, and a pretty substantial shield, and hard cc, and an extra heal, and high mobility.

Imho, the heal and shield need to go, there's 0 reason for them to be there, you're supposed to be a get in, kill quickly, get out job, you don't need a shield that strong and more healing ontop of it, you're not a frontline melee job like sam or drg, you don't need it.

You don't need that level of defense on a high damage offensive character, it's just overkill and bad design.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

You can't have a job that has and strong melee damage, and strong ranged damage, and a pretty substantial shield, and hard cc, and an extra heal, and high mobility.

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It doesn't have those all at once. It is a *choice* between high ranged damage or a shield or self-heal. It's a choice between damage or stun. It's a choice between holding Shukuchi as an escape button, or committing it for extra damage.

A NIN spending absolutely everything on offense does less burst than almost any other melee (it's good damage but it's across several GCDs) and has absolutely zero sustain or defense - it cannot teleport away, it cannot use the Huton shield or Meisui heal, it is just meat on the table. A NIN that commits everything to defense is very hard to kill, indeed, but has the lowest damage in the game (even worse than PLD) and also lacks control (at least PLD has that 3 sec stun to secure kills with.) A NIN that splits the difference does good damage and is reasonably hard to kill, but doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as other classes, and isn't necessarily harder to kill than some other classes.

NIN has a wide toolkit, but it cannot access all of that toolkit simultaneously. It has to balance resource spending on the fly and understand when to go aggressive and when to be defensive.

NIN is fine. People are just bad at the game and just want to cry about the thing that killed them.