So with the New Healer Job.

What Job would you suggest for a player who has never done any of the healing jobs which one to play I know to even go White Mage I'd have to level the Conjurer class, and Scholar is Arcanist I'd level, but from what I've heard I could just go Astrologian and sage I just need to be a disciple of magic of certain levels. I know the 4 a different types of healers which whould be the best as new healer starting out.

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Originally Posted by Kynaar

What Job would you suggest for a player who has never done any of the healing jobs which one to play I know to even go White Mage I'd have to level the Conjurer class, and Scholar is Arcanist I'd level, but from what I've heard I could just go Astrologian and sage I just need to be a disciple of magic of certain levels. I know the 4 a different types of healers which whould be the best as new healer starting out.

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For a brand-spanking new healer? Generally WHM is the recommendation because it's the simplest to pick up. It's a fairly traditional healer. And if you're starting with Conjurer, I think the game will provide you with a nice gentle learning curve because you're starting at a lower level and get more time to learn your kit incrementally. And AST starts at 30 just as SCH does, so it's not going to be too much to pick up straight away but normally I recommend to start practicing in a lowbie dungeon because you have your most basic skills to work with and they're very forgiving dungeons. Though obviously, pick and choose as far as your level of confidence goes.

SGE starts at 70 and IMO is probably the hardest to learn to play well out of the 4. And at 70 it would be easy to get overwhelmed by the amount of skills you've got to figure out and understand. Though one could start with lowbie dungeons too to get practice and gradually learn your kit. Not that I would dissuade anybody who's new from playing it...because I am a SGE main and I like it. Just it might take a little more getting used to if you do and I think again depends on your confidence level.

And there's no harm in trying each of them out to see what you like and don't like.
But a general breakdown:
WHM - Healiest healer. Strongest heals, not many options in your downtime.
SCH - Shieldiest healer, so it's main advantage is shielding people from taking damage. But it gets good use out of oGCD skills, which can compensated it's otherwise weaker heals (by comparison of pure healers). There's not many options in your downtime. Though I would argue, the better you get at SCH, the less you depend on its shields.
AST - It's a pure healer like WHM but sits in hybrid territory, it's more technical and has access to more shield abilities than WHM. It has a card game in its downtime for helping boost the party DPS.
SGE - It's a shield healer like SCH but generally feels weaker than the above, but makes more use of damage mitigation and self buffs to offset its perceived weakness, it's more technical and has a steeper learning curve, despite having a lot of functional similarities to SCH (which makes it easy to pick up if you've played SCH). It has a few DPS tools in its downtime and overally feels quite busy.


On the note of 'downtime'. I don't think it'll be something you'll experience much of as a new healer outside of soloing. But when you've honed your skills to a certain point you'll find sizeable chunks of playtime where you're not healing. IMO SGE and AST are more engaging than WHM and SCH in those moments, because they give you a little more to do. But everybody is different, some don't see the problem with WHM or SCH down time, so you could be one of those people, where the advantage is that it gives you less to think about.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

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SGE doesn't have more tools during downtime, it has the basic ST target nuke+Dot+additional damage spell every healer has. It is also pretty slow paced, as you are not even weaving because Phlegma, unlike Assize, is on the GCD. AST has cards and SCH has at least 4 oGCDs to weave every minute during downtime.

SGE is far from being busy and resembles WHM, more than SCH or AST. The main difference is that SGE has to hit Eukrasia to apply its DoT and that WHM has to weave Assize instead of it being on the GCD like Phlegma. Addersgall - much like lilies - is a passive resource you can let overcap without any major drawback, as Lucid Dreaming is enough for your MP regen. Aetherflow, on the contrary, is something you want to keep on cooldown as you are losing an important chunk of your MP regen (2k), damage and fae gauge.
SGE is also requires less clicks than SCH and AST in general.

The learning curve is pretty smooth, as the job pretty much takes the best from every healer. Passive resource generation and slow gameplay from WHM, tons of oGCDs from SCH and tons of free healing from AST. You don't have tons of clickling to do (AST) or oddities to deal with in your kit (SCH), it's quite comfy to play.

It only feels busy because people are still inexperienced and fall into traps like the Toxicon one, where they feel like they have to spam shields to get Addersting even though that's now what you are supposed to do.

As for the best beginner job, people always treat WHM as the healer for idiots, pretty much. WHM is the only healer that actively teaches you bad habit you'll have to unlearn if you care about being a good healer, so I never recommend it. AST is a good compromise, as it has a powerful oGCD heal from the start and powerful GCD heals to rely on, unlike SCH and SGE. Those two are also good beginner choices, but it doesn't matter much at the end of the day.

I've heard sage described as the job that would come about if someone went "What if white mage were a shield healer?"

Though, I don't precisely agree with it - sage is about having tons of CDs and knowing how to best rotate/pace them. Like Scholar, it lacks the brute force of cure 2/benefic 2 for when the CDs are out and healing might get a bit rough.

For starting out healing, I'd stick to white mage. Exceptions might apply if you have extensive experience healing other MMOs, or perhaps you're the type of person that likes jumping right into complex, "sink or swim" jobs. (And healing really is sink or swim - where the whole party will often wipe with you, outside of boss fights)

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I've heard sage described as the job that would come about if someone went "What if white mage were a shield healer?"

Though, I don't precisely agree with it - sage is about having tons of CDs and knowing how to best rotate/pace them. Like Scholar, it lacks the brute force of cure 2/benefic 2 for when the CDs are out and healing might get a bit rough.

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Cure II and Benefic II are 800 potency, Eukrasian Diagnosis and Adloquium are 840 potency and 1380 potency when they crit.

Scholar, Sage and Astrologian all have tons of oGCD they have to rotate in the most efficient way, so it's just not Sage's playstyle. Sage has it easier as it is not as busy as AST and has a more straightfoward kit compared to Scholar's.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Cure II and Benefic II are 800 potency, Eukrasian Diagnosis and Adloquium are 840 potency and 1380 potency when they crit.

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the problem with equating shield potencies to heals is shields don't actually get HP up, and you lose the potency if you recast too soon. So if you're in a situation where "The tank pulled wall to wall, the DPS are slow, and all the mitigation has run out", it's still not quite adequate for brute force healing.

And, spamming GCD shields like that will run you dry pretty fast.

But this isn't really the place for debating the finer points of such merits. OP asked about newbie friendly healers, so I think the simplest is the best unless he craves the (relative) complexity and nuance right from the start.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Scholar, Sage and Astrologian all have tons of oGCD they have to rotate in the most efficient way, so it's just not Sage's playstyle.

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I was more disagreeing with the notion I've seen going around that sage is a "shield white mage"; not saying that sage is unique.

Though, on that note, I do feel sage's pacing and placement of CDs is bit distinct from SCH and especially AST.

I'd actually recommend AST if you're up to learn the card play. Minor Arcana is now level 70 so level 50 isn't as overwhelming. I think it's a very fun healer with tons of tools and stuff to do. If you want to know what card to give each person and what seal each gives, have these patterns: any card with circles on the side will be for ranged (crosses will be for melee); and at level 50 any card name that starts with a B gives Sun seal, and any card name starting with an S gives Celestial seal.

The leveling isn't as boring on AST as it is on WHM early on IMO.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

the problem with equating shield potencies to heals is shields don't actually get HP up, and you lose the potency if you recast too soon. So if you're in a situation where "The tank pulled wall to wall, the DPS are slow, and all the mitigation has run out", it's still not quite adequate for brute force healing.

And, spamming GCD shields like that will run you dry pretty fast.

But this isn't really the place for debating the finer points of such merits. OP asked about newbie friendly healers, so I think the simplest is the best unless he craves the (relative) complexity and nuance right from the start.

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It's only a problem if you make it a problem, as potency is potency. When damage is high, you can chain spam E. Diagnosis/Adlo because the shield will be depleted before your next GCD lands. If damage is not high enough, you can use Dyskrasia/AoW once or twice before reapplying the shield again. I recently had the "pleasure" to heal a DRK as SGE in Smileton. The first w2w pull hits hard and the tank would barely mitigate (only using Arm's lenght and Rampart) and after using all my tools I still had to spam E. Diagnosis, but it was enough to keep him alive. It's just incorrect to say that SGE and SCH can't brute heal when it comes to that.

There is also a difference between simplicity and ease of play. WHM is simple (but I'd argue every healer is) but what about ease of play, especially in ARR conten where you would be likely to start? SCH and SGE could be considered more "complex" because of their resource management - as simple as it might be, especially SGE's - but why would you even pick WHM over AST if you want a smooth/easy experience?

Their GCD heals overlap, and on top of that AST comes with the best MP regen in the game (LD, Draw and Astrodyne at level 50!) - while WHM has the worst one by a wide margin - an oGCD available from Sastasha (which, at lower levels, is essentially a Benediction), a CD to make your spells instant and another GCD to boost your ST heals. WHM has PoM which is not as powerful as Synastry/Lighstspeed and also exacerbates the problem with MP regen and Holy. Holy is great... With a good group. Mitigation + big DPS is great. Holy with a mediocre group (the general DF experience), is, on the other hand, often a liability: it's weak, it has a cast time and it requires to stay in melee range.

AST's cards - especially at lower levels - are not complicated enough to offset the power and ease of use AST brings, so I really can't understand what would make WHM the best beginner healer as people often suggest.

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Originally Posted by rewd

It's only a problem if you make it a problem, as potency is potency. When damage is high, you can chain spam E. Diagnosis/Adlo because the shield will be depleted before your next GCD lands. If damage is not high enough, you can use Dyskrasia/AoW once or twice before reapplying the shield again. I recently had the "pleasure" to heal a DRK as SGE in Smileton. The first w2w pull hits hard and the tank would barely mitigate (only using Arm's lenght and Rampart) and after using all my tools I still had to spam E. Diagnosis, but it was enough to keep him alive. It's just incorrect to say that SGE and SCH can't brute heal when it comes to that.

There is also a difference between simplicity and ease of play. WHM is simple (but I'd argue every healer is) but what about ease of play, especially in ARR conten where you would be likely to start? SCH and SGE could be considered more "complex" because of their resource management - as simple as it might be, especially SGE's - but why would you even pick WHM over AST if you want a smooth/easy experience?

Their GCD heals overlap, and on top of that AST comes with the best MP regen in the game (LD, Draw and Astrodyne at level 50!) - while WHM has the worst one by a wide margin - an oGCD available from Sastasha (which, at lower levels, is essentially a Benediction), a CD to make your spells instant and another GCD to boost your ST heals. WHM has PoM which is not as powerful as Synastry/Lighstspeed and also exacerbates the problem with MP regen and Holy. Holy is great... With a good group. Mitigation + big DPS is great. Holy with a mediocre group (the general DF experience), is, on the other hand, often a liability: it's weak, it has a cast time and it requires to stay in melee range.

AST's cards - especially at lower levels - are not complicated enough to offset the power and ease of use AST brings, so I really can't understand what would make WHM the best beginner healer as people often suggest.

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You do make a compelling argument for AST. I'd further that and say that a new player could start off ignoring cards (I mean, a low level dungeon party isn't going to notice 3%/5% on one person for a short duration) - making it even easier to start with, and cards can come as they nail down the healing fundamentals.

The only downside is that some new players wouldn't yet have access to it, but the OP's lodestone shows level 58 and that's far enough along for AST.

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Only thing I don't really agree about is SGE/SCH brute healing (I mean they kinda can, but if they're in that situation they probably already spent the resources they'd need for it, and are setting themselves up for more trouble down the line if the encounter doesn't end quick). But all those nuances and subtleties of resource allocation are things I'm not so eager to foist on a newer player.