Help me be better!

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

So far it’s going ok except the disaster hull breaker isle (bloody final sting).

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

It is really difficult giving up control of your health and relying on others (I usually play healer)

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

Yes. I think you can stun final sting, but perhaps pop a cooldown if you cant. Everything else sounds like basic tank play imo. Yeah it totally sucks having your HP at the mercy of the healer, at least youll come back to healing knowing a tanks perspective. Sounds good otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

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For bosses, you pop your cooldown either right before you know a tankbuster&mechanic is gonna hit you. Usually you pop your best cooldown but by learning the fights and doing them more often you may realise that a smaller one may be also enough, especially if you know that something harder comes along later.

For pulls, you gather your mobs and once you decide to stop you pop your cooldowns. Usually you will also start with your biggest one but it also depends on how many mobs you pull. If this is a small pull mit maybe 2-3 mobs and a larger pull will be coming right after you may save your 30% cooldown for that big pull later. If you pull big from the beginning start with 30% and go down that road once they run out of duration. In the beginning you can (and should) also throw in smaller CDs like arms length or Reprisal together with your bigger CDs.

If you are playing PLD and have holy ground you can and should also use it on big pulls as your first big CD, when you take the most DMG. Don't use it just as an emergency button.

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Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

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The thing is more about your equipment and the equipment of the party. You can do this in most dungeons but you may not survive this if you're not equipped for the task. Same is true for the healer as they won't be able to keep up with the incoming dmg if their equipment is lacking. And also if your DDs won't do good damage the mobs will take forever to die and you may run out of CDs. It's a group thing so make sure your group is okay with the big pulls, especially if there are newbies in your teams.

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Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

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Yeah, most of the time you want to hit everything because you don't want to lose aggro.

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Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

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That may be a good idea to test the waters, especially if you are not sure if your team is equipped well enough (see above)

Thank you for the responses

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Originally Posted by Shanir

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

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As a tank you pull 2+ waves -> pop 1 defensive cooldown. If you use reprisal, you can use reprisal + arms length. Otherwise, rampart/Nebula/Sentinel/Shadow Wall are all used one at a time. This is allowing your tank mitigations to go on rotation.

Sheltron for PLD is a special case because you get it by auto attacking with your oath gauge. Use it before a big attack, or use it during pulls in addition to your other mitigation to block and reduce incoming damage. Damage blocked stacks up in adds by a lot.


Wall to wall pulling is a thing and is generally considered the norm. To do wall to wall pulling, it depends on if your healer is competent, if your team is competent (DPS is good), and if you are competent. It also depends on if your gear is good enough to do so too. Before lv 50, it depends on the team composition because some jobs don't have their AoE until much later. If the healer and tank is overgeared usually they can cover the issue no problem, but if the healer is lacking, may it be gear or skill, then big pulls will be a bit more difficult unless you use potions. However, wall to wall pulling helps manage your mitigations + save healer more MP and cooldowns since small pulls run the risk of running out of mitigations faster.

AoE Spam is dependent on the job if I recall correctly. Generally on 3 or more enemies you AoE Spam for all jobs. If it's just 2 enemies, you can attack one, then hit the other one with your combo to simultaneously generate aggro for two. I believe DRK gets their full AoE rotation by level 72 where they actually have a net DPS gain on 2 or more enemies to AoE due to Stalwart soul restoring MP and filling the gauge.

If the healer doesn't give any signs that they're good, you can always do a test pull to figure out how your team works. If the healer doesn't mind letting your HP drop and DPS before healing you up, that generally is a sign that you can pull more since they don't feel the need to heal when the damage is low. After all, if the team isn't dead, then everyone is fine. If the healer is spam healing on the tiniest of damage you take (big overhealing), then you should be wary for big pulls because it means they're panicking or spam healing without properly managing their MP. Although it could work out and you could do big pulls, they could also zone out and forget to lucid dream + move out of AoE. If enemies are dying really slowly, then it's a sign that people are either undergeared or underperforming and big pulls will probably be a bad idea since you'll run out of migitations and healer will run out of resources.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown?

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For max reductions as close to the end of the cast bar as u can get(depends on latency) you want the buff icon to appear before the cast bar is finished to register(depends on the attack some attack have a longer animation and can be mig later i think)

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Originally Posted by Shanir

And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last

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No in fact the 30% skills usually have the highest cds in boss fight that will take more the its duration its best if used first. If the fight is shorter use it the mig the highest hitting attack.

In big trash pulls the same applies, fast packs? use it lower cds so they will be up again.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

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I assume u mean damage rotation and yes. but it also depends on how many mobs u pull. I don't play pld so i cant give tips here.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

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As the tank you are the leader of the party its up 2 u. You wont be able to pull wall to wall out right, but if u try pulling 2 packs then 3 packs you will eventually learn how to do wall to walls.

Generally wall to wall is the optimum strat for dungs. They are the fastest ways to get to end boss, and earn a lot of commendations. but they take time to learn.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

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generally yes u want to spam aoes until there are 2-3 mobs, at this point depending on your healer's mana just start to pull the next set of packs.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

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This is a good idea you want to ease your group into larger packs. pull 2 then 3 etc. You want to always be pushing ur group just alittle bit harder. But never to point of a wipe that costs more time, then if you just pulled 1-2 packs less.(unless ur wall -wall pulling then even if you die, if you have killed enough mobs its more efficient then pilling 2-3 packs)

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Originally Posted by Shanir

It is really difficult giving up control of your health and relying on others (I usually play healer)

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As a rule, if you healer has mana you are good, make sure they are around 10-20% mana before you think of slowing down.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

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on wall to wall pulls. if your healer is not pumping(out healing the damage) but still has mana you can pop ur sprint and run out of the range of the mobs autos. make sure to stay in your healers range by running back and forth. this will give you healer time to heal you and dps time to kill the mobs

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

In the beginning you can (and should) also throw in smaller CDs like arms length or Reprisal together with your bigger CDs.

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I would not use arm's length and reprisal together with your 30% cd. Since arm's length slows the mobs attack speed the only thing you get out of it is less mitigation from your big CD.

Pop arm's length about 3-4 seconds before your 30% runs out so by the time you have no mitigation up the enemies are slowed and then combine it with reprisal as "intermission" mitigation before popping something like rampart.

I should also add that you want to be careful with a WHM as your healer. If they actually know what they're doing then they'll start spamming holy for a while as soon as you stop pulling more mobs. This means that the enemies will be stunned for about 7 seconds and using your defensives during that means you're potentially wasting half of your 30% CDs duration since nothing is attacking you.

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Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues

generally yes u want to spam aoes until there are 2-3 mobs, at this point depending on your healer's mana just start to pull the next set of packs.

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For warrior and gunbreaker it is a dps increase to use your aoe combo on 2+ mobs.

Keen Edge -> Brutal Shell -> Solid Barrel = 3 GCDs for 900 potency total, Demon Slice -> Demon Slaughter = 2 GCDs for 400 potency per enemy hit. So let's assume you do 6 GCDs with atleast 2 enemies. Your single target combo would deal 1800 potency in damage and your aoe would deal 1200 potency per enemy in the same amount of time for a total of 2400 potency in dps. It becomes a bit more complicated if we factor in cartridge spenders but generally you want to prioritise your Gnashing Fang combo for 1-3 mobs, at 4+ mobs Fated Circle will deal more dps.

I'm not too sure about paladin or dark knight but even there you can safely assume that at 3 or more enemies your aoe will deal more damage in total. This obviously changes at lower levels when you only have access to 1 aoe ability with relatively low potency.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

]At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

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Depends on the level of the dungeon really. You can blow thru trash mobs on lower levels super quick, so is somewhat dependent on how fast you move through the trash. Personally, I just run with rampart and shelltron during trash pulls. IF you use sentinel it should be the first cool down to pop since iwth on a 2 minute timer. Of course you can use hallowed ground, but personally I like to save it for the oh poop moments.

Though a big word on Hallowed ground. It is animation locked. That means you need to pop it when you have enough health to absorb a hit or two. If you lack the health and you get popped you can still die because it doesn't go into effect until the animation is done.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

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You can and I recommend wall to wall pulling. Its super fun, it pushes you to pay attention to everything as a tank which is a good thing. However, it is dependent on your healer's ability and how well the dps in the group can well dps.

As for final sting, good news, you can stun the hornets :) Most trash mobs are stunnable, susceptible to debuffs like arms length slow, kick, shield bash and so on.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

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Spam your aoes on 3 or more targets.

AOE rotation (not running to pull mobs) Eclipse>Prominence then the spell aoe part (which will be post level 70) Requiescant>holy circle x 4>confector and repeat. then when you drop to 2 mobs you can go to your normal target rotation which you can bounce between two mobs.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

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I usually ask the group if they are good with wall to wall as I see more and more new players, this is a good way to find out. Majority of times its big pulls.

If no one is responding, I will go single pulls and make a judgement call on whether or not a we can handle wall to wall. This means gauging on the dps and the healers ability.

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Originally Posted by Shanir

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

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Don't be afraid of dying. Its going to happen and its expected. Even the most perfect of runs can go south for whatever reason. Gear and food is a big thing for tanks. At end game, melds will be important as well. Definitely pop a visit to The Balance on Discord loads of good info there :)

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

For warrior and gunbreaker it is a dps increase to use your aoe combo on 2+ mobs.

Keen Edge -> Brutal Shell -> Solid Barrel = 3 GCDs for 900 potency total, Demon Slice -> Demon Slaughter = 2 GCDs for 400 potency per enemy hit. So let's assume you do 6 GCDs with atleast 2 enemies. Your single target combo would deal 1800 potency in damage and your aoe would deal 1200 potency per enemy in the same amount of time for a total of 2400 potency in dps. It becomes a bit more complicated if we factor in cartridge spenders but generally you want to prioritise your Gnashing Fang combo for 1-3 mobs, at 4+ mobs Fated Circle will deal more dps.

I'm not too sure about paladin or dark knight but even there you can safely assume that at 3 or more enemies your aoe will deal more damage in total. This obviously changes at lower levels when you only have access to 1 aoe ability with relatively low potency.

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After big pulls you done wait to kill 2-3 mobs, the dps can prob kill it on your way to the next packs. its better to just mobe on and grab more. unless u need to wait for cds or healer mana is low.

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Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues

After big pulls you done wait to kill 2-3 mobs, the dps can prob kill it on your way to the next packs. its better to just mobe on and grab more. unless u need to wait for cds or healer mana is low.

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As a DPS main, I hate this. Don't do it. Killing moving targets is a pain in the socks especially if there's still 2-3 of them since they'll likely be spread out and you're forced into single target. The only two exceptions that I would recommend to this are a) if there are only ranged dps in your party since movement doesn't impact those jobs as much although mobs spreading out still impacts AoE and b) if you know that the dps can kill the remaining mobs before they start moving to follow you I.e. waiting until the absolute last moment when only a single hit or two will kill all of the remaining mobs.