Ninja needs a few tweaks.

So i decided to level Ninja again to get it to 80 (currently 73) and i noticed a few small things that should be adjusted in terms of the Ninki Gauge and the skills that revolve around it. Both skills "Hellfrog Medium" and "Bhavacakra" cost 50 Ninki which is kinda absurd. Hellfrog is a 200 potency AOE....for 50 Ninki, what? It should cost 25-30 Ninki. Bhavacakra is a single target 300 potency, should cost 30-35 Ninki. These skills are not worth 50 Ninki.

Ninja's finishing combo's grant only 10 Ninki. Mug grant's 50 Ninki on a 2 min c/d. Meisui grants 50 Ninki but you have to dispel Suiton which means no Trick Attack (2min c/d). And lastly Bunshin grants 25 Ninki for your shadow (1min 30sec c/d).

I feel like the Ninki cost for these two skills need to be reduced to create a more seamless flow of oGCD skills in between normal combo skills. But it's not. They could also increase the amount of Ninki you get from combo's from 10 to 15, etc. That is currently my 2 cents on returning to Ninja but everything else seems alright.

I would like to know how others think of this. Mainly Ninja mains @ 80.

Each weaponskill gives 5 Ninki. At level 78 your finishers and Shadow Fang also generate 10 Ninki (On top of the 5 they generate baseline from the level 62 trait).

This means, that at base, you're getting 15 Ninki per combo, then after 78 you're getting 25 per combo. Meaning every other combo should yield a Ninki skill.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Each weaponskill gives 5 Ninki. At level 78 your finishers and Shadow Fang also generate 10 Ninki (On top of the 5 they generate baseline from the level 62 trait).

This means, that at base, you're getting 15 Ninki per combo, then after 78 you're getting 25 per combo. Meaning every other combo should yield a Ninki skill.

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It this correct? I thought Ninki per combo was 5+5+10?

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

So i decided to level Ninja again to get it to 80 (currently 73) and i noticed a few small things that should be adjusted in terms of the Ninki Gauge and the skills that revolve around it. Both skills "Hellfrog Medium" and "Bhavacakra" cost 50 Ninki which is kinda absurd. Hellfrog is a 200 potency AOE....for 50 Ninki, what? It should cost 25-30 Ninki. Bhavacakra is a single target 300 potency, should cost 30-35 Ninki. These skills are not worth 50 Ninki.

Ninja's finishing combo's grant only 10 Ninki. Mug grant's 50 Ninki on a 2 min c/d. Meisui grants 50 Ninki but you have to dispel Suiton which means no Trick Attack (2min c/d). And lastly Bunshin grants 25 Ninki for your shadow (1min 30sec c/d).

I feel like the Ninki cost for these two skills need to be reduced to create a more seamless flow of oGCD skills in between normal combo skills. But it's not. They could also increase the amount of Ninki you get from combo's from 10 to 15, etc. That is currently my 2 cents on returning to Ninja but everything else seems alright.

I would like to know how others think of this. Mainly Ninja mains @ 80.

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Couple of things.

Firstly; the Ninki costs are more than fine as things are. If you were able to use Bhava/Hellfrog more often it would lead to a moderately high DPS increase, which Ninja really doesn't need (and reducing the costs of these abilities by half would make them used much much more frequently). Aside from that, Mug grants 40 Ninki, not 50. Additionally you do not lose out on a Trick Attack by using Meisui. Meisui has a 2 minute cooldown, the same time as Ten Chi Jin. When you use TCJ with the proper mudra combination for your single target burst the combination of ninjutsu goes as follows; Fuma Shurikan -> Raiton -> Suiton. Naturally, TCJ is used once you are already under Trick Attack. Thus; you use Meisui to dispell the Suiton that your TCJ grants once you're already in your Trick window and, thus, do not lose a TA.

The thing you aren't understanding about Ninja is that the job is not about a "constant flow" of things. Ninja is a burst DPS through and through; the job wants to dump everything into its Trick Attack window and then it waits for its cooldowns to come back to do it again. What this means is that the entire point of the job is about optimizing the amount of damage that you can fit into that 15 second window to be as high as possible, and managing your Ninki propery so that you can fit two Bhava's into it is a part of that. Outside of TA you only use a Bhava when you're sitting on 95 or 100 Ninki so as to avoid overcap, or if a raid buff is applied and your TA is still on cooldown.

TL;DR - Ninja is fine.

Playing Ninja with high ping stills feels like shit imo, sometimes when i do Raiton it looks like im throwing out a Raiton together with a Fuma shuriken at the same time i dont know whats that about, but EU servers has been crap lately.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

These skills are not worth 50 Ninki.

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This statement would make sense if you had something better to spend that Ninki on, but you really don't - other than Bunshin which sits on a cooldown, so it's not really a choice anyways and it's better in part because it generates more Ninki to use the other spenders.

I do agree that NIN could certainly use some more weaving outside of TA since Ninjutsu have been moved to gcd, but I don't think it should be Ninki skills. The current rate of Bhavas and Hellfrogs seems pretty good and I think cutting the costs would make them feel spammy and mess with TA windows(and you would have to also cut their potencies again to keep NIN's dps in check, going back to your issue of not enough potency per cost).

I'd rather see Jugulate make a return as a weak, low cd ability which doesn't line up nicely with TA. Something like a 25, 35 or 40 second cd would be nice, depending on which frequency would feel best. Of course adding anything would require to cut some potency somewhere else, although NIN could probably fit a tiny buff without becoming op, as it is the lowest rDPS melee right now.

Also I think pretty much everyone agrees that Shadowfang should be returned to being a regular dot combo, for the sake of gcd variety as well as frequency of that sweet, sweet flip animation.

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Originally Posted by snipski

Playing Ninja with high ping stills feels like shit imo, sometimes when i do Raiton it looks like im throwing out a Raiton together with a Fuma shuriken at the same time i dont know whats that about, but EU servers has been crap lately.

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That glitch doesn't really affect gameplay though, beyond the occasional spook when you're dropping a prepull Doton and see a Katon animation go off on the boss.
I might be lucky with my ping, but I don't see any real Ninjutsu fails, outside of times I'm lagging so badly that I'm missing entire inputs - at which point the entire game becomes unplayable anyways, regardless of job.

Because of how much gcds we lost too ninjutsue mathematically we get the exact same number of aeolian and armor crush as before the big changes, which is likely why SF got removed from the combo.

Personally i want to see more blade play and less ninjutsu in our rotation BUT i do think shadowfang needs to stay out of our standard combo. If i were to change just sf I would love to see its:
-dot potency nearly halved (90 down to 50 on dots)
-cooldown removed
-duration buffed to 33 seconds so every other cast can align with trick without drop off

This would remove one standard gcd from our bank (as wed be spending two on sf per minute instead of 1), keep us very close to the same dps (the drop to 50 instead pf 45 to make up for the lost gcd) and would allow us to again multi dot in multi target situations

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Because of how much gcds we lost too ninjutsue mathematically we get the exact same number of aeolian and armor crush as before the big changes, which is likely why SF got removed from the combo.

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Yeah, but to be honest I thought we already had a bit too many Aeolians(compared to other gcds) back before the change, plus now it feels like even more when it's mixed with just AC and Ninjutsu instead(even though factually it's not the case as you said).

Making Shadowfang a separate dot without cd would be a good solution as well though - multi-dotting becoming smoother than before would certainly be neat too. Having a 2-step combo as an alternative felt pretty good though, so I could see it working either way, so long as we get to use it a bit more often to spice-up the blade play.

As for the Ninjutsu, while I do generally lean more towards the "rogue" than "ninja" side of the job, I really enjoy how current Ninjutsu play into the gcd/uptime management, due to being ranged and somewhat flexible thanks to charges.

Maybe get it to 80 before commenting on balance? 30? Seriously? That means you'd be able to do a skill every single combo, and you know how they'd balance that? They'd slash the potency in half.
You already get 15 or so, with the lvl 78 trait. Again, get it to 80 or atleast read the traits/skills you're going to get at 80 before commenting on how it should be.
With the addition of Bunshin, Bha/Hellfrog have become gauge spenders, and not the main focus of how it should be used like it was in stormblood when job gauge's were introduced.