Patch 5.10 Current state of physical range jobs' balance is unfair.

Both unfair and frustrating to players who mained in aiming gears. It basically makes someone who put all weekly resources (tomestones, tokens, etc) to gear up BRD/MCH/DNC into feeling like trash because of how small our damage contribution really is. I initially decided that I would like to main MCH with BRD/DNC to play around in Shadowbringers, but now the job feels obsolete to the point it's ruining the experience for me. Feels like I played a role that drag the whole party down. I wish I can refund my aiming gears.

It feels like whatever song or dance raid buff I give to the entire party doesn't actually boost the party to push over phases. What's worse is that I actually regret not giving my weekly gears to my SAM. It doesn't matter how well I can play physical range jobs because one melee/caster job's dps can replace not only my personal dps but also my buffs. I now sitting with 3 DPS jobs that are currently bottom tier, I don't know if I should continue to upgrade aiming gear, and I am slowly losing drive to play.

I don't know what game you're playing, but in the average content as a MCH I out-DPS everyone I encounter. And I seriously doubt SE would make specific jobs impossible to clear content with.

While the physical ranged could use a very slight buff, they aren’t bad. If your group is relying on you to push damage, then it sounds more like a problem with the group as opposed to you or the role.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I don't know what game you're playing, but in the average content as a MCH I out-DPS everyone I encounter. And I seriously doubt SE would make specific jobs impossible to clear content with.

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I don't know what game you're playing but average content would mean Leveling Dungeon. Endgame normal content would be normal raid where DPS doesn't matter. DPS only matters in savage and ultimate content.

MCH is the best of the worst, like the best competitor among kids.
BRD is shining against multiple targets.
DNC is shining against multiple targets aswell but performs better than the BRD against a lone target.
I should almost includes RDM because it's so low here and can easily be replaced with the extremely mobile/high damage SMN.

It's not fair, indeed, to be so far behind the SMN (1K DPS behind for the MCH on a lone target), a job as mobile as a ranged but with extra support.

MCH could have a very slight buff, the only thing, in my opinion would be to halve Wildfire's cooldown, that would be around 400-500 dps increase. I would love to see a small buff on Bio Blaster, it's our only alternative for AoE but is a very small gain against 2 targets. Half of Alexander Ultimate is against 2 targets.
BRD and DNC needs a straight potency buff, the dot nerf was not a nerf for the BRD overrall but balancing for its rDPS. However, it was absolutely not needed.

There is one reason as to why you should bring a ranged DPS in your group.
Is it the mobility? Hell no.
Is it the refresh, palisade, dismantle, tp song? That's gone.
Is it the Tactician/Troubadour/Samba? Unmend salutes you, despite the Cooldown reduction, mitigation is never the reason.
Is it for its DPS? They're at the bottoms.

It's the 1% stats brought to the group because you exist. That's the whole reason why you should always have a ranged DPS.
The ranged DPS spot is forced upon groups, that's the only reason why you should get a ranged and that's why it feels unfair. Obviously a ranged should never reach the same damages as a melee for obvious reasons, but we're so shitty SE forces people to get a ranged DPS.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I don't know what game you're playing but average content would mean Leveling Dungeon. Endgame normal content would be normal raid where DPS doesn't matter. DPS only matters in savage and ultimate content.

MCH is the best of the worst, like the best competitor among kids.
BRD is shining against multiple targets.
DNC is shining against multiple targets aswell but performs better than the BRD against a lone target.
I should almost includes RDM because it's so low here and can easily be replaced with the extremely mobile/high damage SMN.

It's not fair, indeed, to be so far behind the SMN (1K DPS behind for the MCH on a lone target), a job as mobile as a ranged but with extra support.

MCH could have a very slight buff, the only thing, in my opinion would be to halve Wildfire's cooldown, that would be around 400-500 dps increase. I would love to see a small buff on Bio Blaster, it's our only alternative for AoE but is a very small gain against 2 targets. Half of Alexander Ultimate is against 2 targets.
BRD and DNC needs a straight potency buff, the dot nerf was not a nerf for the BRD overrall but balancing for its rDPS. However, it was absolutely not needed.

There is one reason as to why you should bring a ranged DPS in your group.
Is it the mobility? Hell no.
Is it the refresh, palisade, dismantle, tp song? That's gone.
Is it the Tactician/Troubadour/Samba? Unmend salutes you, despite the Cooldown reduction, mitigation is never the reason.
Is it for its DPS? They're at the bottoms.

It's the 1% stats brought to the group because you exist. That's the whole reason why you should always have a ranged DPS.
The ranged DPS spot is forced upon groups, that's the only reason why you should get a ranged and that's why it feels unfair. Obviously a ranged should never reach the same damages as a melee for obvious reasons, but we're so shitty SE forces people to get a ranged DPS.

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but you have to see, the moment the physical ranged come into the range of but 300 dps to the top every single group would instantly drop all their melees aswell as casters to run with 4 physical ranged so we cant have that.

World first groups would do it (which is totally terrible and WAY worse than bringing a single physical ranged for the buff and never in a 100 years a second one, they would never still at least bring 1 caster+1melee for the buffs+lb) and every single not progress group would of course do the same.

I mean, Statics struggling to recruit of course would also pass up that one totally awesome and chill melee that does better then the rest of the group because it doesn't fit into their 4 phys ranged meta just as partyfinder would never in a 100 years take a caster because it offers a 1% buff and they don't really give a flying fuck if the mechanics are handled by a caster or a phys ranged, just how much dps is done at the end of it, never ever would this happen.

and taking a melee ? get real, melee lb is for sissys, and uptime strats are incredibly demanding on the group, most of the time you even have to think for 5 seconds which 2 spots for a mechanic are closest to the boss, no way in hell people will ever do this if its not worth at least 5% dps .

if not for melees dragging everyone down the all ranged meta would just allways split up and dance around the arena like ninjas, i mean who needs to split up stack markers or maybe stay in generally the same location to get hit by healing or because its the only place from which to safely do mechanics anyways ? with 4 ranged you could do such fun things as do black smokers 5 meters farther away from the tank, or just drop half the arena full with the panto puddle marks, its way easier if everyone just runs around like a headless chicken instead of moving in a group.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

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My healers would kill me if I did not stacked at max melee or close enough for their heals. That's also the irony, the ability to attack from very far is in fact a problem for aoe healing.
90% of the time, ranged are at melee ranged for stars, PLD wings, defensive buff and else. So no, 4 ranged would not run like headless chicken.
Of course I never pointed out that rangeds DPS should do the same damage as melees, there should be a 500 DPS gap maximum, because it's what you're loosing if you fail all your positionnals as a DRG. And let's get real, if you're hitting the boss frontside all the time, you ask to be replaced for a ranged DPS.

We need to get real, ranged tax exist to avoid the 1 melee scenario. But currently it's way too high, especially with the existence of the unbalanced SMN.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

My healers would kill me if I did not stacked at max melee or close enough for their heals. That's also the irony, the ability to attack from very far is in fact a problem for aoe healing.
90% of the time, ranged are at melee ranged for stars, PLD wings, defensive buff and else. So no, 4 ranged would not run like headless chicken.
Of course I never pointed out that rangeds DPS should do the same damage as melees, there should be a 500 DPS gap maximum, because it's what you're loosing if you fail all your positionnals as a DRG. And let's get real, if you're hitting the boss frontside all the time, you ask to be replaced for a ranged DPS.

We need to get real, ranged tax exist to avoid the 1 melee scenario. But currently it's way too high, especially with the existence of the unbalanced SMN.

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gotta admit, i thought my sarcasm was strong enough, reading your post i'm not sure that is actually true, though that may aswell be on my reading comprehension here.

though i might also add to your comment just as a little cherry on top that even taking 1 melee invalidates most "uptime strat" concerns, because thats the literally latest point at which a group will do them either way, and the difference between 1 and 2 melees at this point can be boiled down to "do we put 1 person in the circle/square closest to the boss or 2 people in the 2 closest circles/squares. if this is different in any place that would potentially be ultimate but in that case so what ? these groups are gonna take whats best anyways, as long as 1 per role is set and the last spot is generally "free" thats perfectly fine. (and half the fight is designed incredibly friendly to bard and this group still took 2 casters, not 2 physicals)

This tier is practically bad about not utilizing the mobility aspect of Range DPS but Stormblood had several examples where free mobility was, indeed, an advantage. Godka, M/F and Final all come to mind as non-melee freely fights. Likewise, it's easy to say people do uptime strats. Go ask around how many statics, let alone PF, did uptime Hello, World. You'll find out very quickly few did because it was far tighter. People would be even less inclined if there was only one melee since why adjust a strat around a single player.

Now that isn't to say the Range DPS shouldn't be buff. They absolutely should, though I'd actually prefer they bring back utility in lieu of pigeon holing yet another role into the same "selfish, not as selfish, 'support'" dynamic they've been doing. But there should always be a decent enough gap between the Range and Melee. Just not 1,000.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This tier is practically bad about not utilizing the mobility aspect of Range DPS but Stormblood had several examples where free mobility was, indeed, an advantage. Godka, M/F and Final all come to mind as non-melee freely fights. Likewise, it's easy to say people do uptime strats. Go ask around how many statics, let alone PF, did uptime Hello, World. You'll find out very quickly few did because it was far tighter. People would be even less inclined if there was only one melee since why adjust a strat around a single player.

Now that isn't to say the Range DPS shouldn't be buff. They absolutely should, though I'd actually prefer they bring back utility in lieu of pigeon holing yet another role into the same "selfish, not as selfish, 'support'" dynamic they've been doing. But there should always be a decent enough gap between the Range and Melee. Just not 1,000.

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the point wasn't if you had to adjust a strategy around one player, my point was that with very few exceptions it makes no difference if you do adjust it for 1 or for 2 players.

the moment you got 1 player you will want to do it unless its a really really sucky thing to do. this one player you WILL want, you would even want him when at the absolute top end dps between physical ranged and melee was identical because again 1% buff+melee lb, so if you do the uptime strat for 1 player it will barring a few exceptions not put extra pressure on you for doing it for 2 players, which is completly besides the point there really isn't much reason to encourage double melee any more than it is to encourage double caster or double physical ranged so with "1 space taken, doesn't really matter how sucky they design the fight" there really doesn't need any sort of big gap for melees unless literally every fight sucks for melee. melees having a harder time to reach the same numbers on certain fights and alternatively falling behind while still pulling ahead on a more static fight is not an imbalance, it is proof that certain classes excel in certain situations.(and by the logic that uptime strats are so bad they would also need to be above the casters as they at least generally don't require much group adjustments)

You're overreacting. A serious static will still bring 1 physical ranged DPS. It won't ever bring 2, though. And this is probably SE intention.