AST: Nocturnal Viability

With the changes in 5.0 and 5.05, does any AST still use Nocturnal Sect?

As long as Regens stack and shields don't Nocturnal will always have a place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

As long as Regens stack and shields don't Nocturnal will always have a place.

---

I think you meant "never". Nocturnal is far too weak right now to bother using, even with a WHM in the party.
But they can't buff Shields too much or NoctAST kicks SCH out.
Doesn't help that SCHs whole kit is designed around it having strong shielding and then background healing of good strength to take advantage of the cover the Shields provide while NoctAST simply doesn't.

As a fun aside, I know its not representative of WHMs as a whole, but I just had 2 WHMs in a row in E1N completely ignore healing outside of Rapture(Cos Misery) and Assize because I was an AST. They just went full blown Glare Mage and left me, who was experimenting with Noct post patch to solo heal the runs while still getting all my cards out and doing DPS as well …

Long story short, Nocturnal needs a full rework. It just doesn't work as a proper stand-in for a SCH in its current form.
Although I'm personally hoping Neutral Sect becomes a base Trait learned at 80, with the Sects simply empowering the Shielding or Regen further.

Nocturnal sect just isn't viable with cards.

Regens can be applied and then ignored until they need to be reapplied, giving you time to draw/dps.
But in order to stop Shields from being OP, they have to be fairly weak, which means you end up having to reapply them almost as soon as you've used them, giving you no down time, and burning through all of your mp.

The binary system of Regen OR Shields doesn't work, they're both tools that need to be used together situationally.
That's why SCH has so many healing and regen options via the fairy.
That's why Diurnal Intersection is so good, and pretty much makes Noct redundant.

I was a Noct for trash wall to wall pulls. It was a nice (stop time) while I figured who needed what and if they needed heals, the shield was good to just HALT basically. Now (before and after patch) it's just a no. You HAVE to be Diurnal. Tanks need constant incoming HP. Even with buffs it is a nice buffer but (and this could totally be a tank issue in they feel they need to pull everything wall to wall constantly regardless mind you of the sprout healer [not me but on DNC i've seen it recently ugh]) Noct is now a bonus to my diurnal state. Like oh if I do this ability I * also * get a shield. As opposed to having an entire stance and kit previous to now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Nocturnal sect just isn't viable with cards.

Regens can be applied and then ignored until they need to be reapplied, giving you time to draw/dps.
But in order to stop Shields from being OP, they have to be fairly weak, which means you end up having to reapply them almost as soon as you've used them, giving you no down time, and burning through all of your mp.

The binary system of Regen OR Shields doesn't work, they're both tools that need to be used together situationally.
That's why SCH has so many healing and regen options via the fairy.
That's why Diurnal Intersection is so good, and pretty much makes Noct redundant.

---

Completely agree with this
Furthermore, having job skills that impact other players job skills is certainly one of their balancing problem at the moment. AST is basically to job that must be balanced against ASTd/WHM, ASTn/WHM, ASTd/SCH, ASTn/ASTd. Non-stacking restrictions only artificially render some compositions nonviable (ASTn/SCH, ASTd/ASTd, ASTn/ASTn)..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylve

Although I'm personally hoping Neutral Sect becomes a base Trait learned at 80, with the Sects simply empowering the Shielding or Regen further.

---

Not both together, but maybe change Sects in battle?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CupidCrux

I was a Noct for trash wall to wall pulls. It was a nice (stop time) while I figured who needed what and if they needed heals, the shield was good to just HALT basically. Now (before and after patch) it's just a no. You HAVE to be Diurnal. Tanks need constant incoming HP. Even with buffs it is a nice buffer but (and this could totally be a tank issue in they feel they need to pull everything wall to wall constantly regardless mind you of the sprout healer [not me but on DNC i've seen it recently ugh]) Noct is now a bonus to my diurnal state. Like oh if I do this ability I * also * get a shield. As opposed to having an entire stance and kit previous to now.

---

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.. I'm just going to point out the AST shields are the exact same as they were in 5.01: the shield potencies have been halves BUT their strength are a percentage of hp restored and the healing potencies have been doubled.

im not disputing the update or the raise in Noct potency, however (for me at least) when a tank pulls wall to wall the shield goes down almost immediately and at a high mp cost. (yes LS and LD are things also but it IS pricey to use) The *updated* heal of it is nice in emergencies but it's hardly a damage sponge like it used to be, or a stall. Diurnal is basically the fairy of a SCH to us. You could do other things (namely the card system our AST job was based on) whilst the regen(s) keeps ticking. But for noct now, and again this is on wall to wall pulls, it's not how it used to be. Granted i'll give you that in a while when everyone is fully geared and materia'd things might settle down but for anyone picking up AST to level to 80, Eesh, good luck... Now the shields are a bonus to my Diurnal as opposed to an entire stance I can work with. Yes i'm geared and even eat good food and it's mostly a no. Though there are random PUG amaze tanks i'm like dang, do you even take damage? lol

I'm not a master Astrologian by any means (currently 72, my main at one point in Stormblood), but in dungeons I find it useful to use Diurnal for mob pulls and Nocturnal for bosses. And as has been mentioned above, it will always be useful for playing with other healers.