The Warrior of Light is not tempered by Hydaelyn.

1) "Ajora Glabados, first of the Zodiac Braves, was not the hero the church would have you believe. He betrayed Mother Hydaelyn for the promise of coin and power, summoning forth a terrible evil from the depths of the celestial abyss." -Orran Durai, from "The City of Lost Angels", cutscene #2.

2) "And if the liberator's visions are to be taken as fact, it also appears we now know what the High Seraph meant by 'blood of my invoker.'"
"She was not speaking of ancestors in the sense of actual kin, but the line of those chosen by Hydaelyn to serve Her as Warriors of Light." -Fran and Mikoto, from "The City of Lost Angels", cutscene #3.

By this we know that Ajora Glabados was a Warrior of Light, and that he betrayed Hydaelyn, something he would not be able to do if he was tempered.

Thank you.

(I didn't even read your post, yet, but the title brought my blood pressure down like 5 points.)

I mean, we also had literally met the Warriors of Darkness from the First.

Whom had denounced Hydaelyn.

Can't do that if y'all are Tempered.

Sorry did you meant to post this in a response to a thread and end up making a thread? Kinda out of nowhere spoilers via declaration.

The Warrior of Light is the exception to many a rule, to be fair. Tempering may also abide by different laws when it comes to beings that operate on a higher scale of power and circumstances to anything we've dealt with so far.

In short? Let's wait and see. It's only a little under two weeks to go until we get some major lore revelations to chew on and I don't believe we should be clinging to absolutes.

What about the beast tribes? Some of them were certainly not tempered, like the Stormblood tribes for obvious reasons, but in particular a couple of the ARR tribes appears unlikely to not have been tempered. I mean the Ixal and Amal'jaa tribes.

The Amal'jaa seem to be very zealous about exposing *everyone* to offer up their souls to Ifrit, as shown by the Ifrit questline. To them, servitude is not enough. All must subject themselves to Ifrit, hence how they forced the treacherous merchant and brass blades to Ifrits tempering. Knowing this it feels unlikely that the beast tribe Amal'jaa have avoided tempering.

As for the Ixal, Sezul speaks about Garuda very knowingly, as if he and his Ehcatl Nine have witnessed her. Also, knowing Garudas personality it seems unlikely that she wouldn't have made the entire Ixal race into slaves.

In addition to all of this, of all the ARR beast tribes I'm fairly certain the Ehcatl Nine are the only ones to confirm they have actually renounced their god. In fact if I recall correctly the Silphs have a cautious respect for Ramuh, and Novvs Clutch admits to still worship Leviathan, though its true the Little Solace Silphs haven't been tempered, as that is part of their plot, and Leviathan, as well as Titan, doesn't seem nearly as interested in making servants as Garuda, nor are the Sahagin or the Kobolds as zealous as the Amal'jaa, so that makes it less likely that Novvs Clutch or the 789th order have ever been exposed.

Odds are high, however, that the Amal'jaa and Ixal have been tempered before, and if they have, then that would suggest tempering is not necessarily permanent as the people of Eorzea believe, as the Ehcatl Nine in particular renounce Garuda openly.

Really, there are a lot of unknowns about primals. It may be possible that having your faith shaken enough might remove the effects of tempering, just shaking someone's faith is much easier said than done. Having your world be slowly consumed by the same Light you worked in service of because you did everything it told you to do, however... I imagine that would be sufficient to shake the faith of the Firsts Warriors of Light.

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Originally Posted by Hezzlocks

What about the beast tribes? Some of them were certainly not tempered, like the Stormblood tribes for obvious reasons, but in particular a couple of the ARR tribes appears unlikely to not have been tempered. I mean the Ixal and Amal'jaa tribes.

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I think what might be confusing you is there's a difference between the Beast Tribes actual god and the Primals that the aggressive sects summon.

This was emphasised during Heavensward with the Vanu, where we get assistance with taking out Bismarck because it is clearly not their god, as their god wouldn't go around eating the islands of their home.

Primals are merely simulacrums in the form of whatever idea there is about a particular entity. They're not the ACTUAL entity themselves. This lead to the issue in regards to Bahamut, where the simulacrum went on a rampage and started destroying the world. This lead to Ysayle believing that Shiva was some sort of ice queen. As well as showing why the Beast Tribes we help are not tempered.

Since tempering seems to only happen from Primals, not from the idols who's likeness they are in the form of.

Suggesting that at one point, there may have been an actual Garuda, Ifrit, Leviathan, Ramuh etc. Just like there was an actual Shiva. Thus the tribes knowing about them. But the Primals are a separate entity that only care about draining aether and tempering people to serve them.

In addition, it's also possible that, just like in the case of Shiva, that the original entity was not at all some grandiose powerful being and was instead someone much more normal. Just with time and idolization elevating their status to create the ideas that now take the form of the Primals. Which is the case for Garuda, whom was an Allagan general in charge of the Ixalion units (Whom where the successful creations of the Ixal, whom had wings. Since the species was created by the Allagans, with the Ixali being failures)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

the Ixalion units (Whom where the successful creations of the Ixal, whom had wings. Since the species was created by the Allagans, with the Ixali being failures)

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My understanding is that the Ixal are descendants of the Allagan Ixalions, rather than rejects, and lost their wings to evolution since that time.

But on the broader issue...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

In short? Let's wait and see. It's only a little under two weeks to go until we get some major lore revelations to chew on and I don't believe we should be clinging to absolutes.

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Prettymuch this. We don't know enough to be stating anything for certain right now, and should wait for the full explanation before trying to make sense of it.

Oh, I'm aware the Primals are false gods, that's actually partly why I avoided bringing up the Heavensward tribes, as, like you said, the Vanu knew Bismark was false, and there is no evidence suggesting the Gnath have ever summoned Ravana before. On the contrary its suggested that it was the first time they'd ever summoned him.

But the ARR tribes are different. They have been summoning Primals for a very long time now, and, at least for the most part, they actually believe that these primals are in fact the very god they worship. Sezul is the only one to ever suggest the ARR primals to be fake, as far as I can recall.