Design your future skills

Hi,
the title says it all, what new skill(s) or traits would you like to see coming in 5.0?
Feel free to also explain why you incorporate a said skill / trait. What's your vision on crafting in 5.0 etc

Observer -[Trait]
Every 10 turns, Observe increases the duration of your buff by 1.

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Ingenious hand
Improve Action success rate by 25% and reduce recipes level for the next 5 steps
The level lowering is between Ingenuity I and II
cost : 45cp

Expensive Touch
Increases quality. Additional Effect: Reduces Inner Quiet Stack by 1 (Min1)
Efficiency: 200% Success Rate: 70%
cost 22cp

Comfort Zone II
Restores 10 CP after each step for the next ten steps.
cost 70cp

Carefulness[Trait]
After failing an action, grant a stack of carefulness increasing your success rate by 5%, max 4 stack (20%)
Specialist : Refund 15cp

Specialist New skills

Innovative Touch II
Increases quality. Additional Effect: Innovation Efficiency: 100% Success Rate: 60%

Hum while you work [Traits]
When Whistle will you work reaches 0 stack and expires, grant the effect Humming.
Humming: Grant 30 durability, increase progress by 20% of the missing progress, your next Great Strides procs a good quality.
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Thought behind the proposition,

Observer: Imo the one greatest issue of this skill is the consumption of buff duration, with this using Focused Synthethis / Touch would see more use and could even be used to fish good quality. At first I had 5 turns as requirement but I thought it would proc too often.

Ingenious Hand is Obviously to remove the dual buff of SteadyHand + Ingenuity. It is more cost effective than casting both buff (and you don't have one lasting longer than the other) BUT it is still overall less strong. I wanted to keep the dual buff as something you could still do for very important action (like the last one).


Expensive Touch is something I've thought for a long time, sometime you're really lucky and have a lot of procs or you simply want to increase the Quality before doing great strides + byregot. I'm not sure how practical this skill would be as you would also need to reget one stack but I thought still having something to do at 11 could be nice.

Carefullness : I wasn't sure about this one, I had plenty of ideas and ultimately I want to make something that would slightly reduce the RNG nature of crafting. Sometime you're just really unlucky and your action keep failing. In itself the loss of durability and cp are more than enough to ruin your craft if you're slightly unlucky. With this, perhaps we would see more "risky" rotation. For instance I love using Patient Touch twice when I start a craft but god sometime i'm just that unlucky.


Innovative Touch II
I made it a new rank but ultimately a simple fix of the success rate would be enough. it's just too low and not worth the risk (even for someone like me who use 2 Patient Touch on every craft...)

Hum While you Work:
So the goal here is to revive "Whistle while you work" a little as I find it too.... unpracticale (My revive I mean out of MaMa rotation which should just be removed).
Basically I never want it to end as I find Nymeia's Wheel too good to pass on and the Autoprogress just plan stupid, I failed multiple HQ craft when I first started using this skill at the begging of SB. (when I became a crafter)
Now I hear you, this is VERY strong, but I think it's ok because it's a specialist skill.
the one thing i'm not sure about is that good quality proc, this would make things much less random that's for sure. But perhaps also too good... i dunno.


Now, I had 2 main idea when ... "designing" these skills

1- Make Omnicraft less mandatory. With the addition of Ingenious Hand and ComfortZone II, the number of important skill an omnicrafter has over a single/dual crafter is very small and beside Tricks of the Trades (which takes 10min to get) any "singlecrafter" should be just fine.

2- Increase the overall difficulty of crafting except for singlecrafter
I want the overall difficulty of crafitng to increase so that we can't just macro everything. On the other hand, I don't want to make it too scary for new crafter or casual crafter (like, all my friend having only cooking at 70), this is why I made "Hum While you Work" very powerful (too powerful?) with an increased difficulty, specialist shouldn't see much difference with the current difficulty but omnicraft who will spend time and effort in having the very best gear and stuff should see a slight increase in difficulty.

Being an omnicraft is a strength, but at the moment unless you're undergeared or unlucky, nothing is really hard to craft. There's very little challenge, I can craft any of the HQ mats (the one requiring creation) with approximately 90% accuracy with full NQ mats. The 10% is if I have a few random failed action. While i'm heavily overmelded atm, with the current rotation I used I could do the same when I was full 320 as long as I would have upgraded the accessories for the extra cp. the extra stats I got from upgrading from 320 to 340 are just useless since nothing is hard.

Being Able to craft any HQ mats with only NQ and no specialist skill means that you can effectively craft ANYTHING without being a specialist very easily (since all your mats will be HQ when you craft the item)

With enhance difficulty, this would be harder to pull off, however I don't want specialist and casual crafter (those with the blue gear basically) to feel like crafting is too hard.

As a side note, MaMa rotation should just burn in hell, becuase THIS is effectively too strong, there's even a video on youtube showing how to craft the 340 stuff with 290 gear with craft rankIV materia.
And with the increase of progress requirement, MaMa will only be stronger every single expantion until we reach the point where you could litterally refill your cp bar twice before ending the mark spam.

What do you guys think?

Carefulness and Comfort Zone 2 for a specialist seems pretty broken. I wonder what kind of prog/quality requirements would be required to keep them in line.

Comfort zone 2 would easily be tuned so I wouldn't care too much about these numbers but regarding carefulness would you mind elaborating why?

To reach 20% bonus (so the equivalent of steady hand1) you would need to fail 4 action.

Assuming unlimited-cp-MaMa would be removed, I hardly see how you could abuse 4 failed actions.

While there are reliable way to fail actions, I'm not sure this would still be worth it. That's around 80~90cp of wasted durability. + the 4 action you used to fail the said action.

That's a hefty price but perhaps it would still be worth it over using steady hand II.
Maybe I under estimate its strength.

I missed the "for a specialist" part.
Perhaps you're right actually, it's true that the CP refund would somewhat nullify the burden of failing actions. (can't edit post, on phone T_T)

Any suggestion?

In the vein of Carefulness it feels the sort of thing that the current Observe + Focused actions take care of.

A 'cheap' step that you fill in between Steady Hand uses if you need solitary touch ups, and not moving through a Steady Hand window. So with this in mind, Carefulness doesn't quite fill a niche that one needs, as the only time you're at risk of failing an action is outside Steady Hand, or when using Hasty/Rapid. Providing additional options is a good thing though, so there's other angles to approach this from that fit the theme (Helping with RNG)

Carefulness
Effect: Preserve the current Condition for four steps. The cost of Carefulness varies based on the Condition.
Normal: 15 CP
Good: 35 CP
Excellent: 65 CP
Specialist Bonus: Poor Condition is set to Normal and preserved for four steps. 15 CP
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Regarding Maker's Mark

I honestly like having the option for it. It provides less geared, leveled, and experienced crafters with a certain amount of stability, and also a fair amount of safety when experimenting, especially on more expensive goods. Call me crazy, but I find many master recipes less daunting to toy around with knowing that MaMa allows me to finish the craft.

I do see there being an issue moving up in levels, no for CP restore, but sheer length of the craft. (The ole 7k progress, 66 MAMA steps comes to mind)

So the question becomes making it less obnoxious while maintaining its value (Stability), in addition to preserving how its currently used while minimizing the stupid amount of CP recovery, as MaMa can potentially be a free Progress tool with upwards of 100-120 CP restore.

So currently, MaMa is worth 33% progress and at a minimum of +22 CP (20 cost vs 42 from CZ), but more likely to be worth about 62 to 82 CP. We have a handy formula for CP to Durability (24 per 10) via Manipulation 2.

Maker's Mark
CP: 20
Effect: The next Three Flawless Synthesis increase Progress by 8% and increase Inner Quiet by 1 at 0 Durability cost.
GSM Specialist bonus: The next Four Flawless Synthesis increase Progress by 8% and increase Inner Quiet by 1 at 0 Durability cost.

This maintains the previous value at a slight nerf (24% vs 33%) and standardizes its gain via the 3 Inner Quiet stacks (Which is worth 30 Durability - 72 CP.). By making it 'the next 3' instead of 'for x steps', it allows Flawless Synthesis to be used anywhere in the rotation, providing a flexible step that can respond to the Craft's RNG (Stability).

The specialist bonus keeps in line with making a Specialist stronger.

Nice abilities, that being said I would replace Observer for it to actually be a skill overwrite.. Costing 11CP, and granting Observe status for the next 2 steps. Focused Touch/Synth would have CP cost amended and 11CP would be the default cost. Short 3 of the former.


I would also grant specialist skills that put them more directly on par with some of the cross class abilities.

As such one of the first abilities I would have is..

Ingenuitive Touch - Upon success grants Ingenuity, drastically reducing the recipe level of said item for the next 4 steps.
CP Cost: 14 | Success Rate: 50%

I would rework the old Specialist skills much alike the OP. All abilities will remain. However, Whistle will no longer directly consume CP but only have a 1 time CP cost, and the Heart of the Crafter will be merged. This merge would create the skill (unoriginally dubbed):

Master's Whistle - Grants 3 stacks of Whistling. granting access to Whistle While You Work up to 3 times in a single synthesis. A single Crafter's Delineation will be used upon execution. Can only be used on the first step.
CP Cost: 80

Whistle While You Work - Retains traits and gains additional - TL;DR
Grants a Whistle stack of 11. One Stack of Whistling is consumed per each execution of said ability. For each step that the material is good or excellent a stack of whistle is removed. When Whistle stack is a multiple of 3 all crafting actions will have their effectiveness increased by 50%. When Whistle stacks = 1, it doubles the effectiveness of the next action. If Whistle stack reaches 0, Finishing Touches will be executed, and the effect wears off. In addition Whistle While You Work grants access to Craftsman's Heart for the duration of effect.

Craftsman's Heart - Increases the chances of material condition being good.

Crafter's Delineation - Costs 30 Red Crafters Scrips. One Delineation is consumed per each time Master's Whistle is executed

Trained Hand - Modified - TL;DR
Available only when Inner Quiet and Whistle stacks are identical. Slightly increases both progress and quality
Efficiency: 150%
Success Rate 100%
CP cost: 16

When the above conditions are met, in addition to step material quality being good or excellent grants Trained Hand II. Increases both progress and quality dramatically. Nullifies CP cost.
Efficiency: 200%

Contentment - Restores 9 CP after each step for the next ten steps. Specialist only skill. Acts as the CC equivalent of Comfort Zone

All other HW Spec abilities will retain their former attributes, as such remain untouched.

Prudent Touch - CP cost slightly increased, from 21, up to 24. Or success rate will be 60%. As such capped at a 90% success rating.

The goal of this was to rework old and fairly powerful systems whilst preventing a bloating of the crafting skills to retain simplicity of rotations, whilst gravitating to more powerful, proc based rotations for master recipe crafts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

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I definitely prefer your version of carefulness. It exactly does what I want, reduce RNG (god especially when you get an excellent condition at the worst time........) and the cost variation is actually sweet. Altough I'm not sure why anyone would want to keep the normal quality for 4 steps. Beside having a Excellent quality at the wrong time, (which is rather unlikely) I wouldn't see much use.

But the idea is still pretty neat.

You're rework on MaMa is also very nice and would make it less obnoxious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Ingenuitive Touch - Upon success grants Ingenuity, drastically reducing the recipe level of said item for the next 4 steps.
CP Cost: 14 | Success Rate: 50%

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While the success rate would definitely keep this in check, I would be careful with the effect strength. Ingenuity has such an impact on progression, I would be careful about making a "Ingenuity III" effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would rework the old Specialist skills much alike the OP. All abilities will remain. However, Whistle will no longer directly consume CP but only have a 1 time CP cost, and the Heart of the Crafter will be merged. This merge would create the skill (unoriginally dubbed):
Master's Whistle - Grants 3 stacks of Whistling. granting access to Whistle While You Work up to 3 times in a single synthesis. A single Crafter's Delineation will be used upon execution. Can only be used on the first step.
CP Cost: 80

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I'm not sure to understand, we can already cast WWyW aas many time as we want, but beside a 60+MaMa, I don't see how you'd even proc enough good quality to need more than 1. (beside being blessed by the RNG god)
Heart of the Crafter cost is an issue and the merge is something I've thought for a long time but I don't get your description of master's whistle (in capital)
Finally, I don't agree with the last line "can only be used onthe first step".
It would mean you'd have to choose between WWyW or Innovation.
While Innovation isn't neceraly the best option for Non Specialist, it is a very strong one if you are. I don't see why you would want player to choose between both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Whistle While You Work - Retains traits and gains additional - TL;DR
Grants a Whistle stack of 11. One Stack of Whistling is consumed per each execution of said ability. For each step that the material is good or excellent a stack of whistle is removed. When Whistle stack is a multiple of 3 all crafting actions will have their effectiveness increased by 50%. When Whistle stacks = 1, it doubles the effectiveness of the next action. If Whistle stack reaches 0, Finishing Touches will be executed, and the effect wears off. In addition Whistle While You Work grants access to Craftsman's Heart for the duration of effect.

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I like the idea of not having to stop (and waste our buff) on Satisfaction.
I'd be careful about the Whistle Stack =1 -> Double effect, with Great Strides you could reach some really insane numbers. I think +50% good as it is.

As a side Note, I think finishing Touch should be reworked as something that increases progression by a % of the remaining progression so that it doesn't complete your craft when you don't want it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

While the success rate would definitely keep this in check, I would be careful with the effect strength. Ingenuity has such an impact on progression, I would be careful about making a "Ingenuity III" effect.

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I'm not entirely sure I'd make it to the effect of a '3rd' Ingenuity. Wasn't in game at the time of writing dramatically, I'd probably go with the effect of between I and II. My issue with the CP cost though is that you'd reach enormous CP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I'm not sure to understand, we can already cast WWyW aas many time as we want, but beside a 60+MaMa, I don't see how you'd even proc enough good quality to need more than 1. (beside being blessed by the RNG god)

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The idea would be to bait the procs with something such as an observe. This is why I've limited it to a 3rd stack. I would definitely say that whilst very ell geared players could finish a craft before going into the 3rd stack. It gives lower melded players, and those that use scrip gear a chance. Without the possibility of looping the craft to infinity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Heart of the Crafter cost is an issue and the merge is something I've thought for a long time but I don't get your description of master's whistle (in capital)
Finally, I don't agree with the last line "can only be used onthe first step".
It would mean you'd have to choose between WWyW or Innovation.
While Innovation isn't neceraly the best option for Non Specialist, it is a very strong one if you are. I don't see why you would want player to choose between both.

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I've never really liked the idea of them being separate when Whistle and Heart rely on each other so pretty heavily. Although the major concern I had when thinking about that was you could just precise touch your way to 11 stacks. I'm not sure how this would interfere with innovation, unless you mean Initial Prep? (The other first step only action). If so, my main choice was just a wider scope of abilities to pick from. If you had the stats you could probably skip out on the proc based rotation and go immediately in for a less proc based rotation. Whereas those with the lower stats or even scrip could go with the proc based rotation. Also I don't, nor have I enjoyed the idea of it being cheesed with Maker's Mark, especially when you consider merging Heart of the Crafter with it (that's at least roughly a 25-30% boost to material condition). Couldn't really see any other means of enforcing it without bloating the CP requirement or scrip cost of delineations. Also, simply put I don't think an ability as powerful as Whistle should be allowed to be used whenever, especially in conjunction with another seriously powerful ability like Initial Prep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I like the idea of not having to stop (and waste our buff) on Satisfaction.
I'd be careful about the Whistle Stack =1 -> Double effect, with Great Strides you could reach some really insane numbers. I think +50% good as it is.

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Yeah this was something I definitely failed to read over. I would agree on the +50% potency boost. Athough these incredible numbers would come at the cost of 30 durability (Nymeia's Wheel). Also I'm kind of a fan of master recipes requiring at least a double Byregot's to finish the craft. Funny enough it'd be just a tad more powerful than Ingenuity II + Great Strides (Ingenuity is just a tiny bit below in doubling the effectiveness of a given touch action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

As a side Note, I think finishing Touch should be reworked as something that increases progression by a % of the remaining progression so that it doesn't complete your craft when you don't want it.

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Agreed, I would personally have finishing touches. % based progress is brilliant. That being said I would probably have it work similarly to Nymeia's Wheel, to where you can hit the ability whenever you want. The amount of Whistle stacks determines the progress completed. But then the issue with that is it'd need to be some pretty extreme % to be worth considering using it over Nymeia's. Else that ability is simply no more powerful than a regular Careful Synthesis on high stacks. Simply put currently, you never even want to touch this ability, except by mistake.

On a side-note. I would also scale our current CP back down to 430 base.

EDIT: I also wouldn't advocate for deleting Maker's Mark. Whilst it is a method of cheesing on low stats or crafts with high progress requirements (Looking at Ala Mhigan). I still don't think it should be deleted. It's a great ability for gear progression for non-specialist. So rather than the typical advocating. I would have it so that recipe level punishes progress slightly more, not as much as in Heavensward, but not far from it, and further, I would personally prefer recipes to have lower progress requirements and significantly higher quality requirements. For instance, 4.2k Progress, and 37k quality. But then I'm not a fan of the formulaic rotations we've all been doing thus far.

I think something like:
Gift of Foresight
CP:38
Only available on a Good or Excellent quality
Only available once per item attempt
Lets you see the upcoming quality (good, excellent, poor, etc) for the next step, for the next five steps