[Dev] ilevel to enter a DF is not enough. ALL DF need requrements. 4.0 reminder.

ALL DUTY FINDER queues needs better ways of passing for entry. I been seeing for myself more and more people entering DFs with crafter gear, gear not suited for their job, like vit accessories for DPS.I do not know how much is intentionally trying to bypass what is needed anymore but a lot of the problems are coming from new players (so they may not know what is really required and just enter because the game lets them) Some do it because they do not care "oh it does not matter if I enter a level 60 Alexander raid and wipe the party 3 times to to failure to pass DPS check in my 110 relic from level 50, i am sure someone will be able carry me"

Today my friend saw a level 50 BLM using a level 1 ring for the 50 roulette. Then for level 60 roulette pops the last patch expert (xelphatol) where ssomeone had level 145 boots and 2-139 rings. this was back to back runs and sometimes people do not agree with kicking people like this. Some expect you just to live with it because it is not a big deal, sometimes people harass the person for simply bringing it up (one of the people in the 50 run with my friend flat out admitted harassing her because she was just trying to ask for the black mage to respond because they where new and just did not know if they where unaware or doing it on purpose because the system allows them to do it.)

This should not happen, the system needs to prevent this from happening. it should be simple, each job needs to pass a set amount of main stat, hp, and weapon level. Simple giving a gear average is not enough and too easy to work around that. Also all DFs needs requirements, I am sure you did not expect people to wear incorrect gear and the wrong gear like crafting gear to underperform soo much it is basically a 3 person dungeon, or in some cases makes the dungeon not even passable.

Check out these quotes:

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Originally Posted by Miste

http://i.imgur.com/6GJ85IT.png

This is a tank queueing for a dungeon wearing all crafting gear and healing accessories and level 50 weapon going into level 60 content. The game let me do it. So I guess it isn't a problem?

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Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Happened to me in the 50 roulette, Amdapor Hard with a BLM that not only had a lvl 17 weapon, but also mostly gathering accessories and a lvl 27 shield, even without parsing, it was clear their contribution was absolutely pathetic and detrimental to the dungeon (they actually didn't have enough HP to survive many basic mechanics) so me and my friend (healer and DPS respectively) had to pick up their slack to get a clear. This is not okay, why are DPS allowed to enter with DoL/DoH accessories anyway? Why are they even allowed to enter with a lvl 17 weapon?

Also, the argument that it doesn't matter since you cleared the instance is a very flimsy excuse, carrying people who are too lazy and/or inconsiderate to pull their own weight shouldn't be encouraged, it is not too much to ask someone to not enter an instance with a weapon 130 ilvls below the par.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Okay so I know the DF has rules in place for average item level in order to queue for specific content, but I find what I just saw to be very ridiculous in terms of what the DF will allow players to do.

http://i.imgur.com/zMiA9S0.png?1
Also just some factual testing of why weapon is so important that the game should not allow what this BLM did...

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Originally Posted by Altena

Just before maintanence, needed to do one last DR:Expert.

The DRG in the party was red dotting / dc'ing while in the first cutscene so scoped out their gear.

They had a whole tonne of 260/270 stuff, both left and right side but their weapon was a.... True Ice Spear!

As in, the i110 lvl 50 Shiva weapon..

At level 60.
In a DR:Ex....

I mean.... This was a mistake right? Surely they were just trying on some glamour before they entered and they were going to switch when we started the dungeon...
Honestly won't know because they D/c'd after 5-10 mins of being stuck in the little force field thingy at the start so we couldn't finish our DR:Ex anyway.

As far as a stat check is concerned - I think there should be a "minimum weapon iLvl" check as well.. Weapon damage just accounts for far too much, regardless what role you are playing.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

It was an issue back then too. One of the reasons why I would see wipes on Bismarck NM was because people were still using their i90-i100 relic weapons. The maxed out versions I could understand, but 90-100 in a lv 57 trial?

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Would be nice was running the Vault today and the healer was so under geared that if the first boss used his LB move on them it would one shot them and it took 3 runs getting lucky that they didn't get targeted to beat it

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Please do not let this repeat. it was a problem in 2.0.. something when people took crafting gear to DF to soulbond. I seen people using weaker gear recently because soulbonding for 400 gil is important. It will continue to become an increasing problem till something is done.
This issue needs attention now by development, enough is enough.
cheating the DF requirements is becoming more and more common as well.

Hopefully for the requirements they can make sure there is a smooth transition through the dungeons for those new players, having to farm an entire previous dungeon's set to move to the next would be painful while we didn't have to, but yeah the requirement system should be improved (added where not, improved where it is already)~

It's not only helpful for other players dealing with the under-geared party members, but also for the player who innocently queued for the content, before I learned that SE didn't check gear on certain dungeons I just assumed if I queued and was accepted it was A Okay! Lol, unnecessarily painful experience. Besides the innocent, there is a minor issue with gear difference and tanks already, but when you get a tank who joined who is entirely improperly geared you can say good bye to enmity management lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Hopefully for the requirements they can make sure there is a smooth transition through the dungeons for those new players, having to farm an entire previous dungeon's set to move to the next would be painful while we didn't have to, but yeah the requirement system should be improved (added where not, improved where it is already)~

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The sad thing here is: in HW they were handing out HQ-crafted-gear from quests, making is possible for you to gear two (or even three?) classes with that alone. They were making sure EVERYONE would get a decent set of gear by just playing the game (granted, you had to do sidequests, but its pretty obvious that you're supposed to do that anyways - thinking about unlocking flying). So there is NO reason for someone showing up in a dungeon with non-appropriate gear except being lazy/not caring.
So if they continue this - and I would expect that - there wont be a problem with not being able to progress.

DF should do a main stat check instead of ilvl check, that way weapon and left side would have a bigger weight.

When they design a duty around say i200 they design it thinking you would have certain amount of main stat and HP at i200, but it makes no sense people are able to cheese this requirement by wearing stuff not for their class.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Hopefully for the requirements they can make sure there is a smooth transition through the dungeons for those new players, having to farm an entire previous dungeon's set to move to the next would be painful while we didn't have to, but yeah the requirement system should be improved (added where not, improved where it is already)~

It's not only helpful for other players dealing with the under-geared party members, but also for the player who innocently queued for the content, before I learned that SE didn't check gear on certain dungeons I just assumed if I queued and was accepted it was A Okay! Lol, unnecessarily painful experience. Besides the innocent, there is a minor issue with gear difference and tanks already, but when you get a tank who joined who is entirely improperly geared you can say good bye to enmity management lol.

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They will just add them to MSQ quests like what happened when the game became 60. They added rewards to 50 quests (be like doing this to 60 ones we did already) It would be like adding 240 gear the upgraded lore) to the level 60 quests we did, along with having new craftable 255-260? gear using stormblood materials. All they need to do is repeat what they did when game became 60 and be np. The reason there is issue with gear is because people do not put in any effort (it gives me a weapon a bit late) so you may see new players in 50 stuff using gimp weapons. So that is the only thing they need change up really, is weapon access. (though I do not get why people can't buy a 110 weapon for 5k off the market boards but again they do not do that because the game allows people to enter duties undergeared!)

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Originally Posted by Vidu

(granted, you had to do sidequests, but its pretty obvious that you're supposed to do that anyways - thinking about unlocking flying).

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No, you didn't. The main quests handed out plenty of gear directly.

Sidequests just piled on the HQ gear even more.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

The sad thing here is: in HW they were handing out HQ-crafted-gear from quests, making is possible for you to gear two (or even three?) classes with that alone. They were making sure EVERYONE would get a decent set of gear by just playing the game (granted, you had to do sidequests, but its pretty obvious that you're supposed to do that anyways - thinking about unlocking flying). So there is NO reason for someone showing up in a dungeon with non-appropriate gear except being lazy/not caring.
So if they continue this - and I would expect that - there wont be a problem with not being able to progress.

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Unfortunately I can imagine some people picking gear that has nothing to do with the class they are playing, or want to play, and that causing issues later - so while sort of true not entirely lol. Not suggesting they not make ilvl requirements just that they shouldn't be so tight that if you messed up a little you have to go and gear out entirely before the next baby step.

Asking for reasonable compromise, I'm sure many people here would love to set the min ilvl to something that makes every dungeon a lighting breeze especially as we've already gone past the dungeon the first time now ... I'm just saying don't lean too much towards the vets, or to the new players. Allowing people to come in with whatever they want is of course not reasonable lol.

It probably would just be golden to be able to have the system recommend how to quickly meet the ilvl requirements, like obviously the MSQ (but thats easy for a new player to mess up if they don't have gearing sense, not everyone does) - so point out certain leve quests or NPC shops could be great. "Go buy some gear from Jimbob".

Did we really need yet another thread about this?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Unfortunately I can imagine some people picking gear that has nothing to do with the class they are playing, or want to play, and that causing issues later - so while sort of true not entirely lol. Not suggesting they not make ilvl requirements just that they shouldn't be so tight that if you messed up a little you have to go and gear out entirely before the next baby step.

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Not wanting to be rude here but: Those people are idiots and would be rightfully locked out of the next dungeon. That is EXCATLY the type of person we want locked out - the kind of person who, despite having a level 60+ character, is still not able to figure out what kind of gear they need or not caring enough to quickly look at the desciption of the gearpieces and see which class they are for.

So, no this isnt an issue - if people pick the wrong gear, its on them and their fault.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Not wanting to be rude here but: Those people are idiots and would be rightfully locked out of the next dungeon. That is EXCATLY the type of person we want locked out - the kind of person who, despite having a level 60+ character, is still not able to figure out what kind of gear they need or not caring enough to quickly look at the desciption of the gearpieces and see which class they are for.

So, no this isnt an issue - if people pick the wrong gear, its on them and their fault.

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Good way to teach people, tell them to gtfo.. lol (that was sarcasm). While I understand your frustration and I'm not suggesting ilvl 10 weapons in ilvl 150 content, I don't think being all Dark Souls here is the way to go. That stuff minimizes the community greatly, although it does quickly divide the good from the bad.

Except for the highest tiers of content, Git Gud Scrub, is not welcomed and would easily (and does) rift communities and making it a mechanic in the game (on normal content) is unwise. Again I'm not suggestion to NOT do this idea, I think it should be done, only that they should help guide and allow moderate variation. I'm for the thread with the caution they shouldn't tighten the band so much that you can't progress without having to do something silly like farm the previous dungeon entirely.

So I'm honestly not sure if my suggestion would even have an affect on your play depending on how SE does it, I was merely making a point that SE should not ram a giant stick up the backside of players who made /small/ mistakes because other players just "don't have time" for you. At least on non-savage/extreme contents, would probably be a good idea to do it to ex/sav content~. There should be requirements though.