Suggestion for new style for 8-man dungeon

Playing around with the idea of a new style of running an 8-man dungeon

Instead of allowing a teleport to a place in the dungeon after a wipe, get rid of the teleport option.

Example: (for clarification purposes of what I am talking about)

Giglamesh was a multiple phase boss in FF XII. Taking this as a basis of my example, make the dungeon a standard mobs-boss-mobs-boss-mobs-final boss theme.

But in this case, it would be mobs, phase one of Giglamesh, mobs phase two (uses four arms), mobs and phase three (uses 8 arms).

But if you wipe at any phase of the boss, the dungeon resets. So if you beat phase 1, die on phase 2, you have to go back and kill everything up to and through phase 1 again.

Primal fights already do this, as does Coil (except T1, where you can start at Cadecus).

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Its just an idea to add some variety into an 8-man dungeon. Yes, it would be potentially hell on DF. Not the point though; just an idea of variety.

What say thee? :)

How does this add variety? It is just forcing people to do sections of the dungeon over and over again. This would only annoy people.

Right now dieing and wiping come with no penalty at all. Being precise, and executing properly on the first try is not rewarded.

The current game design encourages slop; just run in and see what happens! - if it doesn't work out try again... maybe eventually you can formulate a plan

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Originally Posted by Simaril

Right now dieing and wiping come with no penalty at all. Being precise, and executing properly on the first try is not rewarded.

The current game design encourages slop; just run in and see what happens! - if it doesn't work out try again... maybe eventually you can formulate a plan

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I don't know of any MMO that rewards you for perfect clear one shots. The whole point is to try new ways to do things like that 6 scholar 2 tank titan extreme fight. The current game design doesn't encourage slop play unless you're cheesing turn 2 and by all means good luck with turn 5.

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Originally Posted by Tears-of-Death

I don't know of any MMO that rewards you for perfect clear one shots. The whole point is to try new ways to do things like that 6 scholar 2 tank titan extreme fight. The current game design doesn't encourage slop play unless you're cheesing turn 2 and by all means good luck with turn 5.

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WoW actually did this for a bit when they introduced the Trial of the Crusader raid. You were given 50 wipes to clear the place, and depending on how well you did would determine what you find in the bonus chest at the end. Clearing it with all 50 wipes unused would get you the best gear, and if no one died, your entire group would also be awarded a mount.

Needless to say, it didn't go over well with the community since you can't always control when wipes happen (such as disconnects or server hiccups), thus preventing you from the best loot for that week... not to mention sometimes mistakes just happen. It didn't help that the final boss extremely unforgiving and one of the hardest in the expansion, either. They elected not to include this feature in future raids unless it was just for an achievement. I rather not see something similar in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dels

How does this add variety? It is just forcing people to do sections of the dungeon over and over again. This would only annoy people.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simaril

Right now dieing and wiping come with no penalty at all. Being precise, and executing properly on the first try is not rewarded.

The current game design encourages slop; just run in and see what happens! - if it doesn't work out try again... maybe eventually you can formulate a plan

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I see your point. However, the idea behind this different approach to running a dungeon (and not all dungeons; a select few) would be to reward learning the mechanics behind the dungeon and boss itself, without rewarding only making it through the boss by luck alone. If someone actually clears the dungeon, they must not have wiped as a party. If they wiped, they would restart, and go through what they wiped on again, and again, until they didn't wipe. This makes it so the person actually learns mechanics, and can't "wing it" through.

Its just an idea. Such a dungeon could be implemented to fit in with an early portion of the story line, another later on during the story line, and then one at the end of the whatever-is-current story line. The people doing it successfully will have learned their role better, and would be more skilled as a result. Come to end-game content, whatever role they used, they would know better, and have a greater appreciation for enemy, boss and overall dungeon mechanics. Even they were "carried", enough wipes will make them either learn to play better, or, well, yes, they may drop it. But the eager and interested player base will learn to play the game better.

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Originally Posted by Espon

WoW actually did this for a bit when they introduced the Trial of the Crusader raid. You were given 50 wipes to clear the place, and depending on how well you did would determine what you find in the bonus chest at the end. Clearing it with all 50 wipes unused would get you the best gear, and if no one died, your entire group would also be awarded a mount. ....snip

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I wouldn't suggest a better reward for running through it the first time with no wipes. I agree with you on that. Not only from what you said, but this will lead to additional DF nightmares: "Have you cleared this yet?" [no answer, or "not yet"] "darn. Ok bye!" Or dying intentionally on the last hit of the final boss after you have everything down cold, leaving the dungeon, re-que and "do it the first time".