#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

The healer gets used to not having to heal, after 20-40% hp raidwides the last 90 levels the game can't just say "lmao here's 300% of your hp in damage" and expect us to cope.

Dedicated "heal people now" mechanics being the only time we heal is awful design actually and sets healers up for failure

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Originally Posted by Nanananami773

I don't know why they think differently than you do, but one opinion I sometimes see is “if you want to attack, just play DPS”.

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Problem is player want to heal. Not be Green DPS.

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Originally Posted by Nanananami773

Hello, I am from the Japanese community.
I use a translation tool so sorry if my English is poor.
There was a post in the Japan forum informing me about this thread and I learned of this shocking move.

First of all, I would like to state that these are my personal thoughts and not the consensus of the Japanese community.
I'm sorry that I may not be able to reply very often, as I really need to use a translation tool to communicate with you.


Regarding the issue of healers' attack rotation being too monotonous, Japanese players' reaction is quite different from yours.
Almost no one has a problem with the attack rotation.
I don't know why they think differently than you do, but one opinion I sometimes see is “if you want to attack, just play DPS”.
I don't recall seeing a more specific discussion in the Japanese forum than this opinion.

Unfortunately, your opinion will not be accepted in the Japanese forum.
But I am not going to disagree with you guys.
I usually play mainly as a healer in Extreme and Savage (etc.), but I also play as a DPS or tank if I want something different and exciting.
When pointed out to me, I have a feeling that this “when I want a different excitement” may stem from the fact that the healer's attacks are too simple, and I feel it when I get tired of them.
However, I myself do not see the need to change anything about the attack spells.
I may need some more time to think about it.

For now, I will just be very curious about the differences in opinion between the Japanese and English communities and will keep an eye on what happens in the future.
Thank you.

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Here on English forums we don't care whether people use machine translation from their native language to English because we will most likely understand it very well.

Do Japanese have experience playing other MMORPGs that contain holy trinity (tank + dps + healer)? Such perception usually means their experience is very narrow and simply accept things as they are -- unfortunately here in West, we play other games and have bigger experience on what a healer should actually be -- a healer with a heal kit to heal, and using dps skills is a welcome bonus. Problem stems from the fact healer kit currently is very bloated with mitigations rather than heals, and tanks are very overpowered: this isn't normal in other games.

Perhaps Japanese community finds healer to be a more laid back type of role, where hitting the same dps button is comfortable and doesn't require much thinking with exception of eventual oGCD heal or dodging enemy attacks.

Healers should probably be reconfigured to heal when necessary but to provide buffs when they are not. ATK UP, DEF UP, Haste(reducing CD timers for party), skill speed up, spellspeed up. Pulsing out Party buffs I feel would be engaging for a healer class instead of spamming Glare or Broil over and over again.

Probably not gonna happen though.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Problem is player want to heal. Not be Green DPS.

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I wonder if the current state is due to how healers before were asking for more damage in their rotation because casting a dot now and then was too boring and they needed more to do during a fight besides healing.
So they added more self heals to the other jobs to support the healers damage rotations.
But then the scale tipped too far and now there's the lack of Healing instead.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

Maybe if more healers just learned how to actually heal the healing intensive mechs we actually get, the devs wouldn't have to give everyone else more substantial sustain to compensate.

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Meanwhile DPS fail dps checks all the time, why didn't healer get 1500 potency OGCD per 15 seconds to compansate?

Tanks don't mitigate properly all the time, even in high end contents. Why shouldn't healers get to have skills that provokes the target, and, at the same time, quadruple our hp and grant 50% mitigation on 60s cooldown to compansate?

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Originally Posted by Nanananami773

Hello, I am from the Japanese community.
I use a translation tool so sorry if my English is poor.
There was a post in the Japan forum informing me about this thread and I learned of this shocking move.

First of all, I would like to state that these are my personal thoughts and not the consensus of the Japanese community.
I'm sorry that I may not be able to reply very often, as I really need to use a translation tool to communicate with you.


Regarding the issue of healers' attack rotation being too monotonous, Japanese players' reaction is quite different from yours.
Almost no one has a problem with the attack rotation.
I don't know why they think differently than you do, but one opinion I sometimes see is “if you want to attack, just play DPS”.
I don't recall seeing a more specific discussion in the Japanese forum than this opinion.

Unfortunately, your opinion will not be accepted in the Japanese forum.
But I am not going to disagree with you guys.
I usually play mainly as a healer in Extreme and Savage (etc.), but I also play as a DPS or tank if I want something different and exciting.
When pointed out to me, I have a feeling that this “when I want a different excitement” may stem from the fact that the healer's attacks are too simple, and I feel it when I get tired of them.
However, I myself do not see the need to change anything about the attack spells.
I may need some more time to think about it.

For now, I will just be very curious about the differences in opinion between the Japanese and English communities and will keep an eye on what happens in the future.
Thank you.

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Ok, so there is a lot of opinions around but please allow me to offer mine as well.

I don't think that it is really about "Give us more attacks". Please allow me to give an example -

When I started this game, it was in November of this last year. I started going for the SMN role because that excited me. After time, I learned of the SGE role and I started to make that my new focus past the MSQ. Progressing as a SMN was great, though I imagine doing solo content as DPS would help out. Once I got to EW, I unlocked SGE and started my journey.

So first of all, it WAS hard for me to get into. There was a lot of buttons, abilities, things changed when I pressed other buttons. Not "complicated" but it was also a lot to learn. After reading abilities and tooltips, for some reason I ended up deciding that doing Eukrasia + Diagnosis/Prognosis as pretty much my main and only healing+mit abilities that I used for pretty much the rest of EW. This is my issue, I should have been PUNISHED or at least made aware that I wasn't doing a good job. . .but instead everyone else has abilities and mits that essentially made my job invalid so it wasn't like it mattered. I could have spammed sprint for the whole duration of the dungeon and probably contributed just as much. I didn't even know I wasn't doing much until a friend, that also plays SGE, asked me why I wasn't hitting certain buttons. My response, "oh, I didn't think it did much anyway".

All of this isn't to say that we don't have abilities that heal or that we can't do a alright job with it....but why do you need to heal someone that already has their own self heal ability going? I mean, at that point you are just overhealing, right? From what I know about MMO's, that's essentially bad and wasting resources?

I think with the DPS side of things, the meta is to have your "ABC's" going at all times. Always Be Casting. The worked in ability for that with healers is your 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (eventually dot) 1 1 1 1. . .until it becomes time to do maybe a healy thing and then keep rotating. I think people are saying with this "look SE, if you want me to always be casting please make it interesting at least".

I've talked about this before also, but hellz, I didn't even know esuna was actually important until I wiped a raid. I mean, never like it mattered before, right?. . .it's that kind of stuff that just drives me up a wall sometimes. Its partly because I AM a casual but I mean....there is like 10 dungeons (wrong number I'm sure) that esuna actually matters?

**I hope translator works well in reverse I am sorry I cannot give you the same curtesy**

Do not get gaslight here. This is in porbability a troll and not honest at all. Esspacially there is not argument provided just "nah, fam we do not think so". It is a i speak for all people and say just no without context. The JP commuinity is also not happy about it. Go to the froum and translate you will stuimble on pearls of wisdom. Also JP is way harsher on the devs then we are. We fight each other while JP is most of the time extremly harsh to the devs and group together for it. We should stop the infighting and work together. The west gets post on x and facebook and JP moves SE because they riot while we are fighting on semantics that not even matter.

Also if they were honest they would have read: There is no singular idea how to fix or change the healers and the majority does not want simply more dps. Most of us want more involvement in the fights aka healer mechanic and a reason to be there not "give us BLM damage". For that reason i call BS for that post.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

This is just silly. That's not their proposal at all.

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While an iron man better represents your opponents position, you have to agree a straw man is much better in getting others to help you understand it. :3

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

On the other hand, when healing output isn't required- which, right now, is almost always- healer players would like to have some sort of depth or "business" in their damage rotation to keep them entertained. I'm not sure if you played in those times, but in Midas Savage, when it first hit (and when I still player healer), this was an actual decision I had to make. I'd sometimes let some of my dots fall off (even though I knew I had to refresh them) because there was a wave of incoming damage that I had to take care off first (specifically thinking of A6S here). This kind of depth is gone.

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I played, but didn't do raiding during heavensward, did some in ARR... messing with ACC caps in addition to constantly double clicking Cleric's and locking myself into 10s of DPS stats when healing was needed, just overall felt bad as a healer, IMO. I just wasn't good enough back then to raid.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I think simply bringing back Miasma II and Aero III with different timers from Dia would be a small but significant step towards ameliorating this issue. I've played a bit of healer in patches 6.4 and 6.5 and I agree with a lot of the sentiments here- I almost forget Liturgy exists because it's completely unnecessary. Heck I overheal sometimes just using the lilies to get Misery for burst...

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and while their at it they can give us downgrade abilities for all of our current 90 kit so we can properly learn our rotation earlier. There's a perfect excuse to bring back SS as a downgraded Benison for example.

(One day I'll get that 125k Crit DH Misery I'm fishing for. The reason I main WHM is because they are the only healer job that really benefits from using their GCD heals in a somewhat exciting way.)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I'm honestly confused about this hostility towards healers.

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Some are trolls, others are afraid you'll take their fun away, and others still are trying to actually understand the position of the strikers, but only see how they stonewall everyone else behind, "if you hate the idea so much, why are you posting?" attitudes. Hostility is met with hostility.... heh, Eye for an Eye, I miss that ability.

The reason its so hard to adequately see the strikers position on this is that there are multiple separate camps that tend in mutually exclusive directions. Fights should properly have actual mechanics that test the healer's skills in various ways, not just test the party's ability to mitigate down everything so the healer can continue to avoid casting GCD heals like the plague.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

The healer gets used to not having to heal, after 20-40% hp raidwides the last 90 levels the game can't just say "lmao here's 300% of your hp in damage" and expect us to cope.

Dedicated "heal people now" mechanics being the only time we heal is awful design actually and sets healers up for failure

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I still remember P10 normal in Duty Finder week 1:

Oh, here's a cast bar. And there's the damage. That wasn't so bad. Oh, huh, another head slam. Akh Morn? *heal* … Wait, why is this still going? *splat*

Most groups got the message and cleared the mechanic on the next pull. A few wiped a second time before truly understanding what was required.

So, yeah, Harrowing Hell being an outlier in terms of incoming damage profiles made it more of a "gotcha" than anything.