What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Do you really think the entire world becoming atheistic is remotely likely in a world where gods can be conjured just by having enough spare energy and a strong enough desire? Yes, primals are false gods, but good luck getting everyone to acknowledge that when we can't even get everyone in our own world to acknowledge that the Earth isn't flat.

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To be fair there's a wide variety of different belief systems established in the real world in regards to deities. There's no reason that the game itself cannot reflect that, particularly with its main cast.

I would have personally preferred the game to have the gods be actual gods rather than the equivalent of humans who became them but the ship has long since sailed on that front.

Still, with the long list of revelations surrounding them it wouldn't be unlikely for at least one or two of the Scions to take a more realistic and cynical approach rather than all just adopting the exact same opinions in response to practically everything that happens.

This thread has enough pages to be a major novel now…

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything. Certainly, the game hasn't shied away from bringing up and acknowledging the lingering consequences of characters that have already exited the storyline. It has happened already with Nidhogg, Ilberd, Yotsuyu and Ysayle. Even characters who are still around such as Hien and Merlwyb gain such treatment. At the very least they could stand to compromise by ensuring that the codex entries are more balanced and in alignment with each other across the various localisations.

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Do you believe they will come back and revisit this (Venat, Ascians, Twelve) at all? It seems like they have closed everything off, almost to be shelved and forgotten about, as they move on with expansions. I suppose they could always dredge them back up, if they feel like new content is drifting.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Please stop making assumptions and pulling quotes from posts at different points in time without regard.

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The oldest post of you was less than 25 hours old... should i always assume you don't hold the beliefs from more than 15 minutes ago?

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I disagree because Ancients are basically gods (imo)

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That's like your opinion man. Is that why it's okay if they get shattered?

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Headcanon is believing there was some other way.

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Venat: There was no other way. Source: Trust me.
I already said i don't trust just what any character says.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Umm yes.

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Too bad all those other people that died in wars are not important enough to do a time travel for. Or the other victims of Endsinger. Why stop the threat and save the world? Only care about yourself! (The scion's way)

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Whataboutism

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If your precious Venat would have said that the people of Doma need to be killed you wouldn't question it i guess.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Strawman try reading the sentence again.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I actually think with this is I don't have anything else to say.

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You mean reread that masterpiece of english literature? Is that even a sentence?


You remind me a lot of Ren. Is it a coincidence that you started posting here more soon after he stopped?

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Do you believe they will come back and revisit this (Venat, Ascians, Twelve) at all? It seems like they have closed everything off, almost to be shelved and forgotten about, as they move on with expansions. I suppose they could always dredge them back up, if they feel like new content is drifting.

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Isn't it a new writer? I would stay the hell away from any of this.

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Originally Posted by Nayukhuut

I wouldn't mind ignoring her from now until the end of time and just writing off Endwalker as bad writing, but the story keeps doubling down on her and dredging her up. We find out the Twelve are false gods put there by Venat and that we have to pray to them else the planet destabalises and untold calamities likely happen as the actions of keeping a planet unnaturally apart come to a head, or we end up using something like the locator crystal MacGuffin to heal Zero.

The whole Twelve revelation being one of the worst. Why is no one in the story horrified that should we ever decide to become an atheistic society and stop believing in gods that Venat installed herself, the world as we know it could crumble?

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This is a general statement - to have the story self-consciously avoid mentioning or involving prior plot points would be horribly irritating. Regarding your particular example, the myths of the realm storyline was largely decided on prior to the release of Endwalker. To course correct as a result of player feedback would have been exactly what I wish Square Enix did less of. I want them to tell their own stories rather than appeal to me and my sensibilities. If their stories happen to suck, at least they are honest.

However I think part of the reason Endwalker ended up the way it did was because they went back on a lot of the things they originally set out to do and didn't stay true to their own initial vision, partially due to a belief that that's not what the playerbase would want. That's when writers check out - when they don't actually get to tell their story and have to maneuver multiple restrictive frameworks that don't allow for any genuine storytelling. It's just speculation on my part tho based on the story getting cut down to one expansion and Ishikawa's initial draft being rejected two days prior to the deadline.

Additionally, I think what you're saying is not true. I might have checked out too much to care, but I'm pretty sure nobody in the story mentioned anything about the world crumbling if we don't continue praying to the Twelve or any such nonsense. The star also isn't continuously artificially kept asunder, conversely it would require effort against the new natural equilibrium after the Sundering to rejoin the reflections.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I do not hold the view that the game offering different perspectives on Venat moving forward would serve to break anything.

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To acknowledge Venat as a genocidal fool who should have told everyone and tried to stop the course of fate rather than stand by and do nothing as everything she knows will happen happened is to go against everything Endwalker believed itself to be. It has the story become meta in an unbelievably pathetic way that would willingly spit into prior writing's (that was done in two days mind you) face and throw a whole expansion under the bus for no reason other than as a weird excuse for failing as writers. I will never be in favor of such undignified weakness that has the writers prostrate themselves before the playerbase for having failed the way they did. I would take no pleasure in that, I would be embarrassed and hide my face in shame.

There is no way to fix Endwalker. Retroactively acknowledging that yes, it doesn't make any sense, will not serve to make the story any better at all and there is no way to transmute it into something beautiful nor is there meaningful storytelling potential in uncovering large swathes of Endwalker as basically a fever dream that didn't actually happen the way it did just because it sucked. The time for "different perspectives" on Venat has come and gone with Endwalker, an expansion that has doubled and tripled down on the one path we actually got to walk, a path that doesn't even understand itself. Besides Venat herself is clearly an unintended victim of a botched storyline that makes no sense in many many ways beyond just her behavior and character.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Do you believe they will come back and revisit this (Venat, Ascians, Twelve) at all? It seems like they have closed everything off, almost to be shelved and forgotten about, as they move on with expansions. I suppose they could always dredge them back up, if they feel like new content is drifting.

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I have a hunch that it's more likely than not given how much of the story has been tied to them either directly or indirectly. That's especially the case if Dawntrail doesn't quite manage to stir up excitement. The people who really enjoy the Scions in their current form and who do not want any meaningful stakes to exist will no doubt be thrilled by the premise of a 'beach vacation' and 'easy going adventure' but it remains to be seen how the development team propose to engage those of us who want something with a bit more depth, nuance and grit. If not in the MSQ's then in side content.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing, though. The game already heavily leans on references to previous games in the franchise as well as throwbacks to earlier expansions. I imagine that'll continue.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

To acknowledge Venat as a genocidal fool who should have told everyone and tried to stop the course of fate rather than stand by and do nothing as everything she knows will happen happened is to go against everything Endwalker believed itself to be. It has the story become meta in an unbelievably pathetic way that would willingly spit into prior writing's (that was done in two days mind you) face and throw a whole expansion under the bus for no reason other than as a weird excuse for failing as writers. I will never be in favor of such undignified weakness that has the writers prostrate themselves before the playerbase for having failed the way they did. I would take no pleasure in that, I would be embarrassed and hide my face in shame.

There is no way to fix Endwalker. Retroactively acknowledging that yes, it doesn't make any sense, will not serve to make the story any better at all and there is no way to transmute it into something beautiful nor is there meaningful storytelling potential in uncovering large swathes of Endwalker as basically a fever dream that didn't actually happen the way it did just because it sucked. The time for "different perspectives" on Venat has come and gone with Endwalker, an expansion that has doubled and tripled down on the one path we actually got to walk, a path that doesn't even understand itself. Besides Venat herself is clearly an unintended victim of a botched storyline that makes no sense in many many ways beyond just her behavior and character.

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Venat's certainly one of the biggest victims in it all. She had the potential to be a much more interesting and tragic character in my view if only they had made a few slight tweaks here and there. Even something as simple as allowing Venat to be hit by the memory wiping beam would have worked to bring about that end.

Though given the route they decided to take there is inevitably going to be push-back whenever she's brought up - so if they do intend to truly move on from the Hydaelyn and Zodiark story arc then hopefully they actually commit to that. I'd have found Endwalker's patch content more engaging if it actually did as much.

At any rate, we'll see more of what they have in store for us next during the upcoming Fan Fest.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

The oldest post of you was less than 25 hours old... should i always assume you don't hold the beliefs from more than 15 minutes ago?

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Yes. Because you have no idea when someone started playing the game or what Live Letters they've seen. We're discussing the lore of a 10 year old game. I honestly didn't even know what a Live Letter was until the DawnTrail marketing started ramping up because I started the game when EW was launching and I just don't follow the game that way. I prefer the details of the game to be in the game.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

That's like your opinion man. Is that why it's okay if they get shattered?

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Yes. They are a fantasy version of humans-- they are not humans. They are humanoid. When they are sundered, they become what we can equate to be IRL humans. I don't get upset about mythology in XIV the same way I don't get upset about it IRL.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

I already said i don't trust just what any character says.

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I'd understand this if the writer was giving us some reason to believe Venat is crazy or lying when we actually interact with her, but there's no evidence of this. In fact it's the opposite, since she's known to be honest and impartial.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Too bad all those other people that died in wars

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What are even arguing? That the story should progress without regard to whether or not the WoL lives?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

If your precious Venat would have said

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

You mean reread that masterpiece of english literature? Is that even a sentence?
You remind me a lot of Ren.

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You remind me of someone who can't read that statement and understand what it says. Not sure who Ren is. Are you done? Like seriously, it's boring. Go ahead grab your last word you so desperately need. If you don't like how I responded to your post, don't be so condescending in the first place. You are not going to get me to stop posting when I want and what I want. Thanks though! Be sure to tag the vultures.

And honestly I would've been ok with a story about Zodiark striking down Hydaelyn as long as it doesn't result in all of the Ancients getting tempered (that would be boring). But FFXIV is not about that. In fact maybe the writers can write a story for you "He won!!!" and investigate it as some kind of alternative timeline so She can't hurt you anymore.

Hey, it sounds like everyone here could use a bit of positivity.

https://media.tenor.com/TYXFOBMebN4A...enat-ffxiv.gif

This again, eh?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Hey, it sounds like everyone here could use a bit of positivity.

https://media.tenor.com/TYXFOBMebN4A...enat-ffxiv.gif

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I think someone needs some love from momma Venat

https://c.tenor.com/TYXFOBMebN4AAAAd/venat-ffxiv.gif

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

uh oh, sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!!

Here, for you:

https://c.tenor.com/TYXFOBMebN4AAAAd/venat-ffxiv.gif

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You're welcome to contribute something to the discussion beyond posting the same gif over and over, of course. At the very least, maybe use a different one each time?

So would people be more upset if we make "Whats the point with that quite lackluster story in Dawntrail" or we just keep adding to this one?