As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Yes and I have infinite space and mana inbetween rezes right? And theres so little mechanics there that I can do the manderville as well

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You don't have space for your vital abilities like regens, Asylum or fairy skills (not forgetting your DPS abilities)? Then there's your problem, they're kind of essential for playing the job. :D Here's my SCH action bars, for example:

http://i.imgur.com/FPjkFjj.jpg

This includes everything I can possibly need in a fight. For WHM and AST it's similar but I don't need the side bars for pet abilities. Middle row is 1, 2, 3 etc., top row same with Ctrl and bottom row same with Shift (I use middle and bottom row through my MMO mouse though).

And there's no reason whatsoever to bring up the raise argument which is in no way related to what you or I commented (our topic of discussion here was healing and DPSing at the same time). But, if you're doing nothing but raising, then obviously you have bigger issues with your group and should not worry about DPS until people are able to survive a part of the fight in the first place. Also, if you find yourself running out of MP for reasons not related to yourself (like inefficient use of healing abilities or lack of using MP regenerating abilities whenever they're up), ask for your BRD or MCH to help with that (usually all groups run with at least one of either). If you have a SMN, they do in fact have a practically unlimited MP pool, so they may help with raises as well.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

No its scripted but I can watch a fight over and over on video but cant learn it that way and besides the groups I go into a new fight with its usually a wipe fest. I have to do it to learn and do so by actually doing it. People are different and people learn different ways ,but most of the people I know learn the same way as me. Otherwise we could all just go in a11s and one shot it. I may add there though healing is always situational, people making mistkes cannot be scripted.This is the entire proble with cleric , people messing up cannot be predicted and that is why its high risk play and why it can be stressful and also can be viewed as bullying if your harrassed to do it.

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Nope. Bully card doesn't work. You've already been told many many many many times that if you aren't comfortable DPSing as a healer, then you should find a group that will let you do that. Since you're still arguing about wanting to heal only, my guess is you haven't found anyone that will go along with you on that. Good luck though. Also, if your experiences in savage content and ex primals is a wipe fest; you should probably find a different group anyway. Mistakes happen, but at that level of gameplay everyone should be hitting their marks most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Llus

(...) feel free to go in blind.

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i dont need your or anyones permission to do so and I won't differ if its a new casual dng or wannabe-pro raid.

And no-one talked about PFs before – PF grps are a different thing, they are createable for a certain reason, if you are not on this expected niveau (exp,gear,progress) - its not your grp and you shouldn't join anyway. That being said how many people give their first shot on an ex-primal or savage via a random pf-grp instead of friends or DF?

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Originally Posted by Neela

i dont need your or anyones permission to do so and I won't differ if its a new casual dng or wannabe-pro raid.

And no-one talked about PFs before – PF grps are a different thing, they are createable for a certain reason, if you are not on this level (exp,gear,progress) - its not your grp and you shouldn't join anyway. That being said how many people give their first shot on an ex-primal or savage via a random pf-grp instead of friends or DF?

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A lot.
/10char

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Originally Posted by Feyona

well is this a joke?

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Not really. Someone else already gave you the list of spells you can use to still heal while in Cleric's Stance, though. But rather than that, I'm merely inverting your viewpoint from healer alone viewing the group to the group viewing the healer. You're in a black and white kind of mentality from the looks of it. You either heal 100% as a healer and deal 0% damage contribution, or deal 100% damage and have 0% healing contribution.

There is only so much damage tanks and DPS jobs can to collectively. There is a certain ceiling set by gear and skill. Which is further lowered by a mix of mechanics, dodging, and downtime. Healers are simply in a position that can contribute significantly more damage that the group otherwise would not have. Sure, it's not a glorious 2000 from a dedicated DPS role. Surely two healers that has some idea of what they're doing can do at least what half- or even a full DPS job could do. But of course you can stand there eyeballing the HP bars, waiting for it to drop so you can reactively press a button. But don't be surprised if you're in a group of strangers and don't appreciate your style*. But back to the mechanics I've mentioned. Remember those? If you have at least some idea how the fight roughly goes, you can play the proactive healer. You can eyeball the HP bars as much as you want if you don't feel like putting effort in a proactive stance. But if a tank dies to an auto-attack after a tank buster before you could finish your cast, who is more likely to get blamed for this?

* In another topic I've suggested you to talk about it or do it with friends alone that accept you for this

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Originally Posted by Taika

You don't have space for your vital abilities like regens, Asylum or fairy skills (not forgetting your DPS abilities)? Then there's your problem, they're kind of essential for playing the job. :D Here's my SCH action bars, for example

And there's no reason whatsoever to bring up the raise argument which is in no way related to what you or I commented (our topic of discussion here was healing and DPSing at the same time). But, if you're doing nothing but raising, then obviously you have bigger issues with your group and should not worry about DPS until people are able to survive a part of the fight in the first place.

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This was random group to help someone out, and my spell bar looks like that too and not dpsing in new fights is what ive been saying all along. And there was need to say it cos your all saying theres space etc to dps in those circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Not really. Someone else already gave you the list of spells you can use to still heal while in Cleric's Stance, though. But rather than that, I'm merely inverting your viewpoint from healer alone viewing the group to the group viewing the healer.

There is only so much damage tanks and DPS jobs can to collectively. There is a certain ceiling set by gear and skill. Which is further lowered by a mix of mechanics, dodging, and downtime.

* In another topic I've suggested you to talk about it or do it with friends alone that accept you for this

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Do you realise I already know how to dps as healer? Im saying its optimal play and situationally dependant. Well tbh Its seems like its you that only sees things one way , and Im still thinking about my experience not existing, and SE made it so content can be cleared without healer dps so why are you still banging on about it being mostly necessary?

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Originally Posted by Llus

Nope. Bully card doesn't work. You've already been told many many many many times that if you aren't comfortable DPSing as a healer, then you should find a group that will let you do that. Since you're still arguing about wanting to heal only, my guess is you haven't found anyone that will go along with you on that. Good luck though. Also, if your experiences in savage content and ex primals is a wipe fest; you should probably find a different group anyway. Mistakes happen, but at that level of gameplay everyone should be hitting their marks most of the time.

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You are so wrong. If people get practice they can clear the stuff no one has to be an elitist to do it 'before' they go in savage. Its open to all of us . So keep telling people what they shouldnt think do or say and ill go and enjoy the game with pleasant people. I also think that healers being harrassed to dps should report it and if enough people do then maybe it will work better

This is the problem with all end game content everyone only wants 'optimal' players in groups, resulting in alot of people being excluded or harrassed to do better, in wow it was the same and ended up ruled by numbers with a pretty toxic player base as a result. I like raiding and Im lucky enough to have a nice semi casual group I can enjoy the game with. I left wow and started this game and thought it was fantastic , people seemed less toxic but its getting more like wow end game. Im wanting stress free play to enjoy my time out of work. I m not even willing to join random groups unless with friends. Cant wait for SB but if its same problems I wil find another game to enjoy myself on. You optimal players are getting you own special instance leave the rest of us to relax and enjoy the game

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.