Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

I can't wait for this. Why should a tank with full level 45 af gear try to tank AK? They take so much damage and ruin it for other players. Just because a dungeon is level 50 doesnt mean it isn't tiered. You just hit Level 50 with all your AF gear fromq quests, Ak drops ilvl 60 and WP drops ilvl55 which sounds like you have an easier time in?

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Originally Posted by Anakhu

heh, it's already started. Seen a bunch of shouts yesterday looking for specific lvl classes geared in specific gear, and some with a smug rude remark after it basically saying don't bother if you don't have this but not in a nice way.

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Those are young players, I block them instantly an will never heal them in any group I am in. They are sadly the majority in games now an in my opinion are the result of what blizzard did to MMO gaming.
It really is sad to see just how far an how fast the community has fallen in ARR. Granted we dont have the race hate towards JP that FFXI had thank christ, but it isn't much better. There is still alot of hate an teen ego's floating around.

they forget what they wore when they first did it

This is a great idea. Elitests aren't interested in anything other than getting their junks. Fug everybody else. Why would you even want to try to group up with someone like that unless you're trying to skate through. If you're trying to enjoy the game and not go at it like a 2nd job, these are not the people you want to randomly be pugged with. Granted there are some out there who are amazing players with sociable attitudes who are also elite but its not the same as a leet-head jerk wad who'll just scream "Skip CS" cause they couldn't give a crap if you'd seen it before or not. They already have seen it and they want to beat the clock so its cluck you. OP, just use the gear level in reverse.

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Originally Posted by CrstyCaptin

Honestly, this needs to happen before 2.1. I can't tell you the number of times I've run garuda/titan in DF only for tanks to show up in full AF and a lv 50 weapon. Same for dps. It's really ruining the game as not only are people not progressing because of gear checks not being met but you're now waiting 20-30 minutes for a DF pop only to disband right as you get in because someone is undergeared and someone else rage quits.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...c2412a5038.png

^ case and point. Full AF except for DL body/belt. Garuda weapon(yay!), lv 30 accesories? Go run some CM or AK's for tokens/gear then retry it when you can really contribute to the fight -.-

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And this is what ilvl restrictions on content will protect people entering the duty finder with appropriate gear from. Getting people like him in even AK will be the cause of much headache and time wasting. That guy needs to be running Wanderer's palace, then AK, then try titan after getting the needed gear.

LFM ifrit HM , relic and full DL only!

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

Gearscores. Great, I can't imagine anything we need more than gearscores.

Nothing positive ever comes from this, why would even think of adding this BS here, SE?

-A set minimum GS to enter a dungeon: Yes. That's extremely helpful.
-Should elitist players be allowed to see my GS: No, they should not. History has shown that, at least for western players, that they can't handle it.

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^this totally agree

There are players who relish nothing more than to belittle and berate everything that you have done in the game. It's the ones that "numbers" mean everything to them and sucks the soul and fun out of every online game I've played in the past decade. If you want the right numbers go be an accountant, if you want to see a group finish off a boss by the skin of their teeth? Then PLAY the blasted game instead of browbeating us with numbers like some holier-than-tho preacher!

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Originally Posted by Malanka

^this totally agree

There are players who relish nothing more than to belittle and berate everything that you have done in the game. It's the ones that "numbers" mean everything to them and sucks the soul and fun out of every online game I've played in the past decade. If you want the right numbers go be an accountant, if you want to see a group finish off a boss by the skin of their teeth? Then PLAY the blasted game instead of browbeating us with numbers like some holier-than-tho preacher!

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Very well said mate an 100% factual, pitty more didn't think like us mate, the games today would be immeasurably more fun than they are now.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

Gearscores. Great, I can't imagine anything we need more than gearscores.

Nothing positive ever comes from this, why would even think of adding this BS here, SE?

-A set minimum GS to enter a dungeon: Yes. That's extremely helpful.
-Should elitist players be allowed to see my GS: No, they should not. History has shown that, at least for western players, that they can't handle it.

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It seems to me the ones that cant handle it are the ones with the bad gearscores!

The game was trash for 3 years or so and rebuild. So this thread is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill. Tell that to all the guilds across every MMO for the past 13 years that have cleared the hardest content at the start of every expansion without farming the new gear.

In my time, I've known far more players with amazing skill that do things that gearscore elitists say they cannot than I have known gearscore elitists that had even a modicum of skill...

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But they got gear on the way there. They didn't farm it but I KNOW they didn't dismiss upgrades until they cleared the xpac THEN started equipping new stuff.

Its very simple. Gear determines potential, skill determines the exploitation of that potential. They BOTH matter. anyone who thinks either one is not needed or extremely low in their importance is ignorant.

Had a bard in titan tonight. Died very early in the fight then got hit by landslide a minute after raise. We got titan to the heart and failed due to dps. Upon examining him afterwards I saw he was in full AF gear, ifrit bow, and lv 27-30 jewelry. I straight up told him he needed to gear up for this in dark light and that he was holding the whole group back. He said he accidentally qued for titan instead of garuda(still couldn't do garuda in that gear). I told him he should leave the instance and save everyone else the lockout. He said fair enough and left. This is why there needs to be a gear requirement.

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Originally Posted by makii

The problem, my friend, is that most of the MMO-mentality today includes playing for two weeks and being in full engame gear so you can go around showing off your cool armour to everyone. When this isn't possible, it will be considered a grind.
It would be fun to see these people back in the old MMO days where stuff was actually hard to obtain.

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i'll just have to quote this one

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Originally Posted by CrstyCaptin

Had a bard in titan tonight. Died very early in the fight then got hit by landslide a minute after raise. We got titan to the heart and failed due to dps. Upon examining him afterwards I saw he was in full AF gear, ifrit bow, and lv 27-30 jewelry. I straight up told him he needed to gear up for this in dark light and that he was holding the whole group back. He said he accidentally qued for titan instead of garuda(still couldn't do garuda in that gear). I told him he should leave the instance and save everyone else the lockout. He said fair enough and left. This is why there needs to be a gear requirement.

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And who exactly are you to decree who is allowed to play a computer game an have fun ?. You nor exile nor anyone els int his game has any right whatsoever to decide if someone can play an enjoy what THEY PAID FOR.... get off your high horses an worry about your own game, not everyone els...

Such arrogance an entitlement are everything thats wrong in gaming. Not one single person in ARR has any rights to tell others to leave or tell them how to play, an you never will.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

And who exactly are you to decree who is allowed to play a computer game an have fun ?. You nor exile nor anyone els int his game has any right whatsoever to decide if someone can play an enjoy what THEY PAID FOR.... get off your high horses an worry about your own game, not everyone els...

Such arrogance an entitlement are everything thats wrong in gaming. Not one single person in ARR has any rights to tell others to leave or tell them how to play, an you never will.

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Arrogant people like you forget that there's infact 7 other people attempting to have fun and killing a boss, that fun is severely diminished when you have to carry a dead weight through the content.

So yes, lets please introduce gearscore so people can play for fun. If you want to attempt to do the content under geared then find your own party of 4 or 8 and go do it without effecting the fun of others.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

stuff

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Since SE is actually implementing gear checks I'd say I was on the right track. When you get up to 50 and start running instances that aren't just face rolling your keyboard to win and actually require some strategy to win you'll understand. Then when you get to titan and realize that you need the entire party to be geared up and execute commands exactly you'll really understand that people that show up under geared like this are grieving the community that's trying to progress through endgame.

Adding my +1 for gear scores (not that that counts for anything). Having players in AF and doing HM Ifrit is pretty managable (more so for some roles), but when you stroll into HM Garuda with partial AF, one or two DL pieces and a green or two from WP/AK something is a little off. I mean, if you want to skip level/gear checks, you can mindlessly run the hell out of CM and have a full DL set in about a week.

Also, the gear checks are there so people actually have a chance of succeeding, as opposed to constant wipes because DPS checks/thresholds aren't reached, or you don't have enough HP to survive an AoE that cannot be dodged (ie Titan). It doesn't flat out stop you from doing content, but it sure as hell stops you from stepping into something you are not ready for, and messing it up for half a dozen other people.

A lot of the stuff the gear checks would be hitting is end game, and if you aren't looking into guides to get informed, or finding out if you can actually pull it off in your current gear, then yes, you need an inbuilt system to tell you whether you can or can not.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

And who exactly are you to decree who is allowed to play a computer game an have fun ?. You nor exile nor anyone els int his game has any right whatsoever to decide if someone can play an enjoy what THEY PAID FOR.... get off your high horses an worry about your own game, not everyone els...

Such arrogance an entitlement are everything thats wrong in gaming. Not one single person in ARR has any rights to tell others to leave or tell them how to play, an you never will.

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Playing how ever you want all by yourself is perfectly fine. Playing how ever you want with other people when it could include something they don't like is AT BEST inconsiderate and more accurately is selfish, sadistic, and extremely detrimental to the community. You are interacting with other people, you don't get to do what ever you want without repercussions, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Rymia

When you get to a boss like Titan HM you need to have enough DPS to kill the heart before he kills you(just like baby mode).
People with a trash weapon, full AF and trash rings will not be able to output the damage required to do this no matter how skilled there is a limit to what numbers you can push out.

Titan has some unavoidable AoE damage that you simply have to heal through If you get a scrub in full AF with a white weapon and level 30 rings/neck etc they will be sitting on 2500 odd HP when the rest of the group in near/full Darklight has 3500 odd no matter how skilled you are if you do not have enough base health to survive during tumult then you are a cancer on your group. You will die every single time and there is nothing you "skill" can do it is a simple case of numbers. A tank in full AF with a white weapon and crap low level rings will get gibbed by table flip, under geared healers won't be able to keep up with Tumult or healing up after the transition my own heals hit for a few hundred more and i have about 1000 more MP now in Darklight then i had in AF+49 rings.

A skilled player will be the one in a full set of gear for the encounter because a skilled player is not selfish/lazy/stupid enough to wander into a hard mode fight in leveling gear(which is what AF gear is) a skilled player will not get carried through garuda in trash gear because a skilled player understands the game well enough to know he has to gear up in earlier dungeons first.matter how skilled there is a limit to what numbers you can push out.

There is nothing elitist about wanting people to be at the minimum level of gear required by the encounter the fight is impossible if half the groups in full AF with trash weapons.

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- this, qtf

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

And who exactly are you to decree who is allowed to play a computer game an have fun ?. You nor exile nor anyone els int his game has any right whatsoever to decide if someone can play an enjoy what THEY PAID FOR.... get off your high horses an worry about your own game, not everyone els...

Such arrogance an entitlement are everything thats wrong in gaming. Not one single person in ARR has any rights to tell others to leave or tell them how to play, an you never will.

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As others have said, playing by yourself or with a group of like minded friends? Then your mentality fits. Playing with others, especially Duty Finder? Then you are the one in the wrong. You want to play your way, regardless of how it affects the 7 others in the group. You play in a group, everyone has to make compromises to make it all work. You're the type that breaks groups up due to being rigid and inflexible.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

I am actually a damn good healer an I strive to always be the best I can be in a "game"

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So does being a damn good healer include going into Titan in AF gear? Or any situation severely undergeared because the encounter will be 'fun'? I'm not actually sure how you'd enjoy an encounter if you were on the floor for 90% of the fight, or had people raging at you for being undergeared, unless your idea of fun is getting people worked up, then why anyone should have sympathy for you is beyond me.

The 'fact' is the player was severely undergeared for the encounter, making it impossible for the people that actually put in the time to have a shot at the content, and was informed of this, and was asked to take the DF debuff as it was his situation effecting 7 other people. Really doesn't sound unfair to me, at and the end of the day, if there was a gear score/check on dungeons, these situations wouldn't happen, saving everyone a load of grief.

Please, the game became "unfair" when they changed AK to prevent 20 minute runs. Now anyone that ran it all day before this "fix" is decked out in Darklight and holds it over the rest of the community. Demanding iLVL70 or better. That's not right. Hell to make matters worse I had someone tell me my DPS was too low BEFORE an AK run began. She told me since I have no Darklight gear and no Ifrit weapon I was not going to cut it. We cleared it, with one wipe to wall because I got pushed off. That's the problem, I know people with ALWAYS weigh things on gear but ffs, let people give something a try first before just saying "You can't do it."

Quote Originally Posted by TasOgie View Post
I am actually a damn good healer an I strive to always be the best I can be in a "game"
If you strive to always be the best in a game wouldn't you get geared up?
What if a boss requires you to heal the party 75% or more if it is anything under 75% its a wipe. You can only heal the party to 65% so every time during that phase the party wipes. They wipe over and over trying to figure out how they can fix it. It turns out you thought it would be fun to do the content you were not prepared for. You wasted everyones time because you didn't have the gear to heal 75%, you could only heal as high as 65%. That doesn't sound fun at all.

to be honest, i really like this because i cant find an FC who hasnt already finished Titan HM, or a even get into a Titan HM group right now, because no body uses the DF for Titan HM and it kind of sucks, because i dont have access to a buncha amazing players. the only reason people dont use Duty Finder for Titan HM is because people who are undergeared for it, by adding the Ilvl restriction, this will at least assure the players that when they que for Titan HM, the people are NOT undergeared. And when that happens i can finally get a Titan HM kill so i can finish this stupid relic. People shouting right now for Titan HM carries for 200k, and im not doin that crap, i just wanna do it myself

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Originally Posted by Bashkarthegreat

the only reason people dont use Duty Finder for Titan HM is because people who are undergeared for it

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I think the other issue is that the fight only requires one tank, and by using DF you get two by default because that is how it is set up. This ends up gimping your DPS for an exceptionally DPS reliant fight, so by organising it through chat, you increase your chances for success (theoretically at least). Someone also pointed out (in another thread) that you only really ever have to do HM Titan once for your relic, so I'm not sure whether or not adding gear restrictions alone will help get 'quality' players into the DF for Titan.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Don't worry man, for every supposed 'leet' there are a dozen people who are humble and polite. Or at the very least, silent. Try to find a good FC to roll with, that should cut down on elitist crackheads you have to deal with, though DF doesn't care what kind of people players are :P

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i just change my window to battle window...this way i dont see anything thats said by the elitest douchebags...problem solved for me.....people start talking shit..they get ignored.....simple as that.....shrug

I saw this shout on chat "LFG xxx Only well geared and experienced! I will perform inspection on gear" :D
I just skip those.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

I saw this shout on chat "LFG xxx Only well geared and experienced! I will perform inspection on gear" :D
I just skip those.

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I'd be sure to skip you.

People are mad they will actually have to pull their own weight... oh no.

I obviously didn't read all 35 pages... This is how I see it though-

1. You want people to have enough acc, str, int, def etc to clear content.

2. You pick something random like average gear level as an entry barrier.

3. Why not actually make acc, str, int, def etc a barrier? We have done this for years. e.g. - In V1 you need 420int for Garuda. In XI you needed 400acc for Colibri camp. and so on. We are used to it.

This way you don't make crafting even more worthless, you don't have to adjust crafted gear level, and everyone knows exactly what is required at the bare minimum... no matter what gear they use to get to those numbers.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

I saw this shout on chat "LFG xxx Only well geared and experienced! I will perform inspection on gear" :D
I just skip those.

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I either skip those, or send a snarky tell when they include specific gear - "I wish I was more gimp so I could meet your standards". In either case I run nearly everything of note with the FC so whatever.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

I saw this shout on chat "LFG xxx Only well geared and experienced! I will perform inspection on gear" :D
I just skip those.

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If im pugging, they're the groups i join, atleast there's some standard to them.

Then you need to only worry about bad's and not bad's in bad gear too.

Wow, amazing that people are up in arms about this. The only people who lose are those who are punching out of their weight division currently. Apart from that everyone else wins!

It won't encourage discrimination because you simply won't be able to do the fight!

It's a natural progression to tier the dungeons properly because they're actually designed with a certain iLvl in mind.

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Actually I think that people against gearscore are more elitest and selfish than anyone else in this game.

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I think "scrub" is the term you're looking for there. Someone who wants to impose their incorrect will on the rest of the playerbase.

Actually I think that people against gearscore are more elitest and selfish than anyone else in this game.

It's usually people like that who show up to content under geared and expect everyone else to just deal with them. They think that they don't need to gear up to beat difficult end game content, they believe that they are so good at the game that they don't need gear and can do just as well as anyone else who does have gear.

Either that or they know they don't stand a chance but they don't care and do it anyway hoping to get carried. These people don't care about the other people in the group who want to have a fair chance at clearing content, putting their personal "lol that was fun" enjoyment over any chance of actually beating the content.

They also get offended if you tell them they need to get better gear before doing that content. They flat out don't listen and act like their awesomeness can overcome any amount of gear or stats and that it's other people that need to do better.

That to me it the most elitest, selfish thing you can do.

Gear level requirements are interesting... but some questions:

1) How 'high' will the requirement be compared to what is needed? (Does it make it mandatory to have 'top' equipment, or only filter out 'really bad' equipment).
2) Can we change equipment in the dungeon? (Equip super douper equipment to get chosen, but then switch to low level equipment to avoid damage/repairs?)
3) Can we bypass the restriction if we build our own parties (say, we want to test out a Reindeer Suit run?)

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Gear level requirements are interesting... but some questions:

1) How 'high' will the requirement be compared to what is needed? (Does it make it mandatory to have 'top' equipment, or only filter out 'really bad' equipment).
2) Can we change equipment in the dungeon? (Equip super douper equipment to get chosen, but then switch to low level equipment to avoid damage/repairs?)
3) Can we bypass the restriction if we build our own parties (say, we want to test out a Reindeer Suit run?)

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1. Most likely not very high since they want this to be a casual friendly game. Expect to see lots of posts like, "Only ONE piece of DL needed for Garuda?! Really SE?!", when it gets implemented.

2. Repairs aren't too high anymore. I doubt people would do that.

3. Not sure.

I just got Titan HM(and Garuda HM i guess) with a Japanese PUG, nobody died in the 3rd(?) time and we got through it. I only have 2 DL so I guess you would say I was carried through the heart(I need to contribute too anyway) but full DL can't save you from AOEs and we all dodged them.

It would be nice if #3 happens. Need to pass a gear check to queue for DF, but no check for full parties.

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Originally Posted by Yashnaheen

It would be nice if #3 happens. Need to pass a gear check to queue for DF, but no check for full parties.

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I doubt it will, just as there are level requirements currently on dungeons, there will be iLvl requirements on them in future.

It would be like trying to enter a lvl 45 dungeon with a lvl 40 player in your party, not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

It's usually people like that who show up to content under geared and expect everyone else to just deal with them. They think that they don't need to gear up to beat difficult end game content, they believe that they are so good at the game that they don't need gear and can do just as well as anyone else who does have gear.

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I totally agree, the combination of skill and gear is the ONLY reliable way to assess a player efficiency.
Anyone saying he only needs either of those is just wrong, period.

No matter how good you can be dressed in underwear and using a wooden plank, if you're in middle of a war it will never beat a body armor and a rifle. Im being metaphorical here but Its pretty much the same on FFXIV ( or rather every MMOs )

Anyway, as long as the gearscore system is not so different from the CR system from DCUO ( the only other MMO on PS3 ) i will be happy.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

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What... theres no way this "FFXI" your talking about is Final Fantasy 11, if so get level 99 wear nothing but AF1 and go try to find a group for something. because last time i played FFXI about 8 months ago my AF3+2 wasn't "good enough" to do the current end game. As for your "Awesome FFXI Community" you speak of feel free to go back to them their alive and well same hand full of people that were playing the game back when it started are STILL playing that game but if you think "They just had fun doign it, win or lose." exists that never existed spend 12 hours fighting Absolute Virtue then lose and see how happy they were just to be a part of it...

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Anyway, as long as the gearscore system is not so different from the CR system from DCUO ( the only other MMO on PS3 ) i will be happy.

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I also played DCUO on PS3 (Villian) I'm assuming item level will be the same as CR i remember back before DCUO had Combat Rating it was terrible fresh level 30's trying to get into end game content like FOS2, im just glad FFXIV has a process for getting to the binding coil or you would see fresh level 50's shouting for it.

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Originally Posted by MarkisKyler

Also I think the Dark light tank (no neck tin can with rabbit ears) looks dumb.

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The next tier of gear up looks pretty much the same as AF but you can only get 300 of those Mythology tokens a week so you might as well start saving now the body alone is 875, and since Mythology is coming from The Binding Coil you can bet those points are going to be around for awhile, crystal tower is suppose to be a tier under the Coil from what I've heard to "prepair" you for the coil. Once Item Level gets put into effect your going to be FORCED into getting that dark light set.