YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

Yes I know there are many threads about this, but if enough complaints are made something might just be done about it.

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The same logic was used when some players spoke about the level 15 Story Quest, also known as "Gargoyle Fight". See what was done about it in the end.

Following that pattern, the result this thread and those other threads you mentioned will provide is that SE will say "fuck it, let's give 'em their bottled milk" and increase all forms of gil earning threefold, if not more, and, if you happen to die while making gil, you win a temporary strong buff that increases your gil making endeavours by almost double.

...right...? Complaining is useful, right...?

it worked when the players requested for the "jump" ability for ARR that wasnt in 1.0
#chimichangas
:3

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

repairs out the wazoo.

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All your issues would be non-existent if they simply added the "request repair" option they had in 1.0.

Other players with leveled crafts would repair your gear for nearly nothing. (If you offered a dark matter as a reward, which was required for them to repair your gear you could get it for nearly nothing.)

Issue is they left this out, so everyone has to hit up the NPC which charges an absurd price.

Not only is the a great way to save on gil but it also builds the community. Nearly everyone knows Dendyn on Sargantanas for gear repairs.

Make a petition to bring it back..

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...her-players%29


Gear repair costs dont help when I level a DoL and cannot even make my gear last 2-3 levels of leveling without it completely breaking... (with no deaths because I am a DoL so i can only imagine how you constant Titan goers feel.)

This game is going to die.

You can earn money fishing. You can earn money doing quests. You can earn money raiding dungeons. You can earn money doing leves. You can earn money selling treasure and rewards from leves. You can earn money selling mats gained from gathering and crafting and selling to NPCs.

You can find armor endgame without paying for it within chests and by trading tomes. Full repairs cost around 5-10K maybe? The highest I've seen is around 6k. Level your crafts and repair your own gear and buy your matter from your GC with seals.

It's easy to say there is no way to make money when you don't play half of the game.

or instead of ocmplaining u can lvl a DoL to 20 and make a decent profit. money doesnt come to lazy ppl in ff sorry. its always been out of farming or crafting. alot of reasons why ppl quit ffxi. cuz it was esentially *too hard* for them. same applies here. if ur not will to take the time or do the work. you're gonna struggle making ends meet. and even with these said daily quests yoshi is tlking about. he says they r gonna offer rewards most likly gear u cant get anywhere else so. just gonna have to get to work ppl always need materials ^_^

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Originally Posted by Uveck

You can earn money fishing. You can earn money doing quests. You can earn money raiding dungeons. You can earn money doing leves. You can earn money selling treasure and rewards from leves. You can earn money selling mats gained from gathering and crafting and selling to NPCs.

You can find armor endgame without paying for it within chests and by trading tomes. Full repairs cost around 5-10K maybe? The highest I've seen is around 6k. Level your crafts and repair your own gear and buy your matter from your GC with seals.

It's easy to say there is no way to make money when you don't play half of the game.

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yep i agree ppl just lazy and dont wanna earn their gil. lol. like im using wht money i get from quests to lvl up crafts/gathering so i can start making money ^_^

I didn't know there was a gil problem? lol

Maybe take a break from dungeons then? 10 min of farming skins will get you a few thousand gil.

We have a patch changing repair costs going on, so why are we still talking about this? We can't go off anything till we see the new prices after maint.

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Originally Posted by Rebort

Only looking at endgame ignores all players not at endgame. There is not a separate economy for endgame. If the issue is economic deflation and not personal wealth accumulation, then you are ignoring half the equation.

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Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

Ahahaha!

So you guys whine because you did everything you can to be the first to get your legendary/blue gear and now you whine like babies?

Has it ever occure to you that maybe buying a green weapon for 300k or a materia III for 100k is a bit expensive? Or maybe doing only rushes is no way to do a dungeon?

I'm not going to apologyze because i took money from people who clearly where too side blinded by the "I have the bigger" complex.

You made your choices, don't blame us for them, you should have waited for prices to settle down.

On the other hand i'm very happy with the changes made today with the patch, you guys deserve to make some money i guess, just a little. :D

Next time you play a MMO, don't do the content so fast and take your time, enjoy it, for once.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

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This may or may not be true, I can't prove it one way or the other and neither can you. Reducing repair cost is not proof. This could merely be quality of life polish on a new game. (One of many possible interpretations.) I think we understand each other. To be clear, you are not arguing (as many others are) that there is a severe threat of deflation once the game matures and more people are at endgame?

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Originally Posted by Nils1986

Ahahaha!

So you guys whine because you did everything you can to be the first to get your legendary/blue gear and now you whine like babies?

Has it ever occure to you that maybe buying a green weapon for 300k or a materia III for 100k is a bit expensive? Or maybe doing only rushes is no way to do a dungeon?

I'm not going to apologyze because i took money from people who clearly where too side blinded by the "I have the bigger" complex.

You made your choices, don't blame us for them, you should have waited for prices to settle down.

On the other hand i'm very happy with the changes made today with the patch, you guys deserve to make some money i guess, just a little. :D

Next time you play a MMO, don't do the content so fast and take your time, enjoy it, for once.

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You're a moron. This thread has already explained this is an argument in economics and not personal wealth, the redistribution of wealth, or poor business decisions. In the real world money just doesn't disappear into a void of nothingness. In video games money sinks do that very thing, and when the money generation doesn't over come the sinks the entire economy falls into a deficit, and will finally lead into a recession; common knowledge refers to this as operating at a loss. Mouth breathers like you should find a nice hole to die in, and leave the rest of the world to evolve. Please do not breed.

What the community is trying to argue is does a deficit exist, and if so, how do we overcome the issue, and more importantly get SE to realize before players up and leave the community. If a player cannot generate gil through means by which they are entertained then this game has a very real problem. Only idiots argue playing the market, leveling craft and gathering classes, and using their respective leves. This is a game, no one can make that more clear, and if a player who enjoys nothing but Battle is forced to go outside his form of entertainment then the foundation as a whole has a very real issue.

Final Fantasy was not marketed as a simulation in trade skills or economics. Get that very point through your head, and your fellow wanna-be adventures. The game has, and is, being marketed as a high fantasy Final Fantasy game.

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Originally Posted by Rebort

This may or may not be true, I can't prove it one way or the other and neither can you. Reducing repair cost is not proof. This could merely be quality of life polish on a new game. (One of many possible interpretations.) I think we understand each other. To be clear, you are not arguing (as many others are) that there is a severe threat of deflation once the game matures and more people are at endgame?

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My experience has lead me to believe an issue exists for individuals who wish to be a battle adventurer. Currently end game battle craft leves do not generate enough gil to cover repair costs, and the higher the item level the worse the issue gets.

In Mor Dhona one battle leve at 45 plus a 4 level boost will net between 450 to 500 gil, and tack on a bonus between 100 to 150 gil. The community is roughly looking at a 650 gil generation from leves. With the 60% reduction my current gear AF gear set, with quest accessories, costs about 500 gil to repair from a dungeon run. Now add in the factor I have to also fight for that gil in battle leves, and any action performed in battle causes wear and tear, so I'm looking at a further 50 to 100 gil repair bill. At most I'm netting a 50 gil return on my efforts, and I have as of yet to get a full ilevel 70 set (Dark Light). The higher the ilevel the higher the expenses. The quality of life adjustments weren't nearly enough, and more a band aid.

The very action SE took to reduce repair costs is in fact an acknowledgement an economic issue exists; unfortunately the figures were off, and the community still will have an issue of having to resort to other means to generate gil outside of combat, dungeons, and raids. By no means are these forms easy, timely, or anything resembling a hand out, and when a player is being shafted for the combat entertainment everyone has a real issue at hand. Players should never be forced to shift paradigms to partake in the experience.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

Final Fantasy was not marketed as a simulation in trade skills or economics. Get that very point through your head, and your fellow wanna-be adventures. The game has, and is, being marketed as a high fantasy Final Fantasy game.

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I don't remember FF11 to be very different from that.

But thx for insulting me because i don't think like everyone else.

Yes you should make a bit more gils when killing mobs, finishing dungeons, etc... but not you should not be rich with that, and that's my problem, a few people in this topic are clearly pissed just because of that, and that's what i'm laughing about.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

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True, but what about if all the Players reach endgame? You can't really argue that there always be enough new Players, no MMORPG ever didn't have a lowering amount of People joining the game.

Also how do you propose this works for Players that find crafting and gathering boring? Most of them will leave if they are forced to do something that for them holds no fun.
If Crafter produce stuff and the Dungeon runners can't afford it cause they Need all there gil for repairs, how should crafter sell there stuff to those Players?
How should gatherers sell there stuff to crafters if crafters can't sell there stuff?

Let's just asumme for a Moment that every Player would start to do gathering and crafting, why should any gatherer or crafter still sell anything if everyone can gather and craft everything themself? Would make the hole trading System useless. And personally for me it would take the fun part in crafting away. CAuse I like the Idea that I make stuff that other Players Need.

I agree we can't really proof if there is more Money coming in or going out, but I think the proofs that there is a Problem for People that want to do the dungeons is there. Everyone can just lvl to 50, get some gear, do some dungeons and check the repair cost and how much time they Need to invest to other stuff to get that Money back, check how much damage there gear takes during that activity and how much Money that allready takes away.

What you are saying that lowering the reapir cost yould just be a Quality of live could be a possability but I think it's highly unlikly. Cause if there woudn't be a Problem that would mean SE just now on purpose made a System Change that will cause Inflation, just for a bit of short term Quality Change... doesn't seem a very Logical joice kinda?

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

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All your concerns would be easily solved by picking up a craft and doing tradecraft leves. Alternatively if you must play a DoW then equip some trash gear for your battlecraft leves.

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Originally Posted by Feathery

All your concerns would be easily solved by picking up a craft and doing tradecraft leves. Alternatively if you must play a DoW then equip some trash gear for your battlecraft leves.

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So your response is effectively that he should spend a great deal of time doing an activity he has no interest in (crafting + harvesting), or put on crappy gear as a workaround for the actual problem?

The number of people in this thread that completely fail to grasp even the basics of macroeconomics and player engagement is staggering.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

The quality of life adjustments weren't nearly enough, and more a band aid.

The very action SE took to reduce repair costs is in fact an acknowledgement an economic issue exists; unfortunately the figures were off, and the community still will have an issue of having to resort to other means to generate gil outside of combat, dungeons, and raids.

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You are still talking about individual wealth and expenses, while in the post above you quite rudely berate the guy for not getting it. Answer me simply, economy or personal finances?

@Deatheye In the patch they lowered repair costs, raised coin drops, and increased the need for repairs for dungeon runs( can't skip.) The net result, I would guess, being to alleviate some of the strain on end gamers while maintaining the current (pre-patch) levels of sinks and faucets. I promise, SE has the data, we do not.

A miner at 40 and still not making any gil? That doesn't make sense at all.

You are probably one of those people who don't know how to use the MB and try to sell stacks of 99 for 100k+ instead of splitting them up into 10k stacks which people are more willing to buy.

i have over a mil gil, idk whats so hard about getting it..?

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Originally Posted by Rebort

You are still talking about individual wealth and expenses, while in the post above you quite rudely berate the guy for not getting it. Answer me simply, economy or personal finances?

@Deatheye In the patch they lowered repair costs, raised coin drops, and increased the need for repairs for dungeon runs( can't skip.) The net result, I would guess, being to alleviate some of the strain on end gamers while maintaining the current (pre-patch) levels of sinks and faucets. I promise, SE has the data, we do not.

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Get to your GD point. A player generates gil, I did not discuss trade, and so I'm discussing the economy, and you failing to comprehend well structured sentences, premises, and conclusions is your problem. Crafting, teleporting, repairs, the auction house, and vendor purchases are all money sinks. All the money sinks in the game drain the ability of combat oriented players of the gil they generate via leves, dungeons, and raids. I didn't make claims or argue what finite quests or stories earned them, as that argument has already been presented and proven. You are using red herrings, and if you continue to use fallacies I'm going to put you on ignore.

Who I insult and when I insult someone is no concern of yours, and has nothing to do with your questions, and if you want to bring in schmucks who generalize without looking into their post history makes you look the bigger fool.

Get this through your head, as you can't seem to understand this after so many posts before and after me, the players are the economy, and their actions to generate more gil then sink more gil is the issue.

Players also have the ability, I know this might be new to you, to figure out numbers all on their own. The players can run parsers, equations, and even simple addition and subtraction to see they're operating at a loss. Stop making false accusations that only Square is able to present any real light on this issue. I've already given you hard numbers based on EXPERIENCE.

You keep talking about yourself at endgame. You think that because you are ignoring the MB, crafting, gathering, and other ways to make money, that you are talking about the economy. You are wrong. If you ignore all other inputs you are by definition talking about personal finance. Yes, the examples you give are examples of faucets. Yes, you as a player at endgame have limited ways to generate gil for the economy. Yes there are more sinks than faucets for you as an individual. If you were the only person playing, or if everyone playing the game was at endgame then you would be talking about the economy. You are not the only player. Everyone is not at endgame (and won't ever be.) Since you are talking about personal finance and not the economy as you claim, I refer you to the numerous posts with valid suggestions on how to support yourself at endgame. Take them or leave them, your call. If you would like to discuss the economy I'm game.

Even though the suggestion to wear no armor and FATE was put out by me. It was a joke. Sure it makes you positive but I can't think of a single game where I was forced to play naked or with worse gear to run positive on money after said activity.

The game needs subs to survive, and frankly a person who finds that they absolutely must play a crafting class to survive, would probably rather spend time in a different game than work a second job inside a game.

So far the repair cost seems great. Gil generation is still a slight issue but clearly things will get better and SE realizes the problem exists. Let's wait a few days and see how these new costs work out versus our costs for leves, hests, and FATE and then we'll come back to the debate later and see where we stand.

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Originally Posted by Chaotics

i have over a mil gil, idk whats so hard about getting it..?

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This whole discussion is about hand outs, no one wants to spend time earning their gil and want free phat loots to drop off bright colored pinatas.

Anyone saying otherwise is deluding themselves, which is fine by me, I will be here and they will be gone, everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by mmcsky

This whole discussion is about hand outs, no one wants to spend time earning their gil and want free phat loots to drop off bright colored pinatas.

Anyone saying otherwise is deluding themselves, which is fine by me, I will be here and they will be gone, everyone wins.

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Then why are people who have plenty of gil and have no problem making it also posting that they see the issue? Either way, if there were more than enough people to dip below the amount of subs needed who leave then you wont be here either. The game will be gone . Unless you plan to pay them to cover the entire games fees every month by yourself.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

The very action SE took to reduce repair costs is in fact an acknowledgement an economic issue exists; unfortunately the figures were off, and the community still will have an issue of having to resort to other means to generate gil outside of combat, dungeons, and raids.

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I am very suspicious about this. As I've said before the repair problem seems to be one which limits a person's ability to continuously run dungeons, a non-traditional version of the lockout timer if you will. I feel like the way they fixed the repair issue was kind of a diversion. The fact they "fixed" repair but also fixed the ability to speed run seems to send the message that we were progressing through the game too quickly. After all the next set of content comes out around November or so I hear? That's still more than a month and a half away and this content is only suppose to breach the gap between the current dungeons and The Binding Coils of Bahamut. If everyone was walking around in i90 gear what would be the point of being around for the upcoming update when the gear you get from that would be vastly inferior?

I've made close to 50k gil in the last 4 days selling mined materials(both normal and hi-qual) and some pieces of hi-qual armor on the AH. Both my crafting professions(MIN/ARM) haven't even passed lvl30 yet, same goes for my Gladiator lvl.

In short OP: get gud. The game is just fine

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Originally Posted by Talma

I've made close to 50k gil in the last 4 days selling mined materials(both normal and hi-qual) and some pieces of hi-qual armor on the AH. Both my crafting professions(MIN/ARM) haven't even passed lvl30 yet, same goes for my Gladiator lvl.

In short OP: get gud. The game is just fine

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You like.. Didn't read any of the thread did you?

Amazing, SE makes a massive change to repair costs, basically acknowledging it was out of whack, and still people white knighting the original mistake that SE corrected. Oh, and people still missing the point of the OP.

Go figure.

I'm not at endgame yet, was the repair cost change enough or are we all still going to die?
inb4 deflation: only considering endgame and not the economy as a whole is wrong. SE has already proven they have an eye on the game economy and are willing to manage it on the fly as needed as the game matures and more (not all) players progress. I still contend the changes were a net zero to the economy as a whole, but a way to alleviate some of the strain put on the players at endgame.

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Originally Posted by Rebort

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Using a personal example to generate gil is not the same as discussing how I earn gil through the community; that is called a false correlation. Guess what twinkle toes, an individual can use their personal experience to be an authority on the matter, and when enough individuals come together with the same experience then we can see the issue is reoccurring, and not singular, and indicative of the economy's state. Seeing as you can't distinguish between individual and individuals (singular and plural) it is time to move on to people who can actually comprehend English, use critical thinking, and don't use fallacies. Good thing in my arguments I wasn't constantly referring to myself, and thus giving the unstated premise I've researched the issue before weighing in on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

Guess what twinkle toes, an individual can use their personal experience to be an authority on the matter, and when enough individuals come together with the same experience then we can see the issue is reoccurring, and not singular, and indicative of the economy's state.

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I think you mean indicative of their segment of the economy's state. That segment being endgame. That segment not being everyone else on the server. Endgame is not causing any problems with the economy.

edit: spelling

to counteract they can increase the amount of gil from daily quests or leves.

I have been making decent gil finding items that have demand but little supply. Granted, you have to mostly be a crafter/gatherer to do that.

Though, there are resources crafters need that require mob farming... so...

That's funny, I am raking in 1-4k a dungeon run; which covers repairs. If I need more gil I can make 12k gil a day on leves and I can use AH to get some gil from the hordes of new players.

We don't need easy gil; inflation would kill the economy.

Anyone saying Sell to other players : Yes we realize you can sell items to people. This has nothing to do with that. I make plenty of money doing that. That isn't the issue here.

To anyone else : Just wait on it for now. Things have changed we need more than a day to gauge the new situation.

Yeah the game dont need easy gil. Now they reduce repair cost so hopefully this will keep everyone going berserk at bay. At most perhaps we could go back to the old Teleport point system back in 1.0. It was free and refresh 6 pts per day. That way gils will sink even less. People are spamming FATE's like there no tomorrow, so tons of gils are being created even if its a few per person.

Limited money supply rather than a constant growing one is key to a stable economy. Simple as that. Though money shrinking too much is also bad, thus the issue with repair costs. Frankly though, in a good economy, someone who fails to budget is frankly going to suffer. You say electrum ore for example doesn't sell for much, but I can't imagine all needed resources are in high supply. You're looking at the most commonly needed one while ignoring the ones that get overlooked by all other than who need them. You can make rather insane bank off of following the items that there is small supply of, but has a demand. Yes in the end it just makes someone poorer, but again, that's the definition of a stable economy. Can't allow too much money at a rapid rate because it devalues it. Inflation is not your friend. Hell, you're better off with deflation as long as its not at an extreme level.