The Monk Temple

What is the advatage of touch of death over fracture or vice versa? Are they both worth around the same dmg overall?

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Originally Posted by Guevara

Can someone share his cross-hotbar settings please? I am going mad trying to figure how to best set them. Thanks.

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I have all 3 opo-opo on R2+X/O/tri/etc, 3 raptor on R2+d-pad, 3 coeurl on L2+X/O/tri, defensive/offensive buffs on R2+O/square and R2+d-pad on 2nd set. TOD/Fracture/Haymaker/One Ilm Punch on L2+D-pad and the fists on L2+D-pad on 2nd set. Steel Peak on R2+square so I can stun while moving. Shoulder Tackle on L2+square for same reason. Bloodbath on R2+left d-pad to gain HP. I'll take a screenshot if I get home earlier than maintenance today.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

I have all 3 opo-opo on R2+X/O/tri/etc, 3 raptor on R2+d-pad, 3 coeurl on L2+X/O/tri, defensive/offensive buffs on R2+O/square and R2+d-pad on 2nd set. TOD/Fracture/Haymaker/One Ilm Punch on L2+D-pad and the fists on L2+D-pad on 2nd set. Steel Peak on R2+square so I can stun while moving. Shoulder Tackle on L2+square for same reason. Bloodbath on R2+left d-pad to gain HP. I'll take a screenshot if I get home earlier than maintenance today.

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Thank you very much! A shot would be great, otherwise I am sure I can do with your explanation =)

Is there a typo in the description of rockbreaker? It tells about a duration of 18s but i have no idea what it refers to. Its obviously not a DoT!?

Guys i have some problems with my macros.
For example this one:

/action "Demolish" <t>
/action "Fracture" <t>

So when i use Demolish and i press the macro again, instead of using Fracture he start the animation of Demolish again, and after half second of animation it ends, so i must use the macro again in order to use Fracture.
In this way i lose somethin like 1 second everytime i use it, does anyone have the same problem?
Sorry for my bad english anyway.

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

What is the advatage of touch of death over fracture or vice versa? Are they both worth around the same dmg overall?

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The advantage is it does more damage, but you can certainly apply both. MNK should have ToD, Fracture and Demolish running as often as possible on any target that can soak the majority of their ticks.

ToD: 270 potency, Fracture: 220 potency -- so ToD will do 49.5% more damage than Fracture, assuming both DoTs run their course.

Personally, I don't use Fracture. Along with the fact that it's off the stance, like ToD, the amount of damage it actually puts out doesn't seem to be worth it, in my opinion. Demolish is amazing, and scales really well. ToD does enough damage to warrant use. Fracture just seems rather underwhelming without the enhanced trait from WAR.

Before anyone mentions the potency sum of Fracture again, I'm already quite aware of it. However, testing it's actual damage output in practice (can test on a dummy and timeline/note the DoT damage) has led to me deciding not to bother with it.

I'm also having a macro issue, though mine is with bootshine. I set up a macro that goes "in this order" Snap punch, true strike, boot shine. However sometimes when I'm in courel stance and go to use snap punch...bootshine goes off instead...

How is this even possible with that macro? Bootshine should never ever go off unless both snap punch and true strike are not usable. The only explanation i have is that some how bootshine comes off GCD faster sometimes then the other two. If it does it just adds that much more to what already is a colossal mess that is monk dps and rotations >.<

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Personally, I don't use Fracture. Along with the fact that it's off the stance, like ToD, the amount of damage it actually puts out doesn't seem to be worth it, in my opinion. Demolish is amazing, and scales really well. ToD does enough damage to warrant use. Fracture just seems rather underwhelming without the enhanced trait from WAR.

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Fracture is only 4.7% less damage per use than Demolish, but still 7.2% stronger than the crit Bootshine (even assuming no crit at all for demolish). I'm legitimately curious how that makes Demolish amazing and Fracture not worth using. And yes, I tested it too.

Is there something I'm not understanding about stronger abilities doing less damage? There's nothing in the base combo (aside from Demolish) that does anywhere near Fracture's damage. I don't understand this obsession about blowing through the combo super quick to override the buffs/debuff early when there's plenty of time for one more GCD every 18 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Odiato

Guys i have some problems with my macros.
For example this one:

/action "Demolish" <t>
/action "Fracture" <t>

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Are you taking into account the Global Cooldown with the macro?

Example would be this:

/action "Demolish" <t>
/wait 2.5
/action "Fracture" <t>

Try this link out it has everything you'd need to know:
http://eorzeareborn.com/macro-overview/

Hope it helps :)

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Fracture is only 4.7% less damage per use than Demolish, but still 7.2% stronger than the crit Bootshine (even assuming no crit at all for demolish). I'm legitimately curious how that makes Demolish amazing and Fracture not worth using. And yes, I tested it too.

Is there something I'm not understanding about stronger abilities doing less damage? There's nothing in the base combo (aside from Demolish) that does anywhere near Fracture's damage. I don't understand this obsession about blowing through the combo super quick to override the buffs/debuff early when there's plenty of time for one more GCD every 18 seconds.

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Don't you risk losing greased lighting by using an out of combo move like fracture?

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

Don't you risk losing greased lighting by using an out of combo move like fracture?

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Nope. There's still plenty of time. GL lasts for 12 seconds, and even 2 out of combo skills (fract and tod) only delays your combo by about 4.6 seconds the first time you use it. As your rotation gets into full swing and you have 3 stacks of GL going, you only lose 4 seconds for both, and it's rare for ToD and Frac to line up again so you really only use 2 seconds. That's still plenty of time to keep all of your buffs up 100% of the time and keep Fracture up. A pretty typical combo (assuming things line up so you can keep your buffs and do your maximum damage skills) your non-Demolish combo skills will do an average of about 191.8 potency, and Fracture will do 241.5. So yeah. Fracture is worth delaying your combo and not overriding the buffs early.

edit - forgot to factor in crit for fracture. I did for all of the other combo skills and assumed 10% crit (more crit rating = fracture becomes better than the combo since bootshine doesn't scale with it).

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

Don't you risk losing greased lighting by using an out of combo move like fracture?

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I honestly find ToD a lot harder to use than fracture, since the animation for ToD is very long, and fracture is close to instant.

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

Don't you risk losing greased lighting by using an out of combo move like fracture?

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At GL3, you got enough time to squeeze it in (unless you got low skill speed), I personally use Dragon kick>Twin snakes>ToD>Fracture>Demolish quite often.

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

Don't you risk losing greased lighting by using an out of combo move like fracture?

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You have time for 2-3 extra abilities before the strict rotation required to keep up GL stacks.

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Originally Posted by Teeko

I honestly find ToD a lot harder to use than fracture, since the animation for ToD is very long, and fracture is close to instant.

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I don't know about that, with decent gear at 50 I don't reach the animation block with this ability, or if it is there it is very slight.

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Originally Posted by Guevara

Thank you very much! A shot would be great, otherwise I am sure I can do with your explanation =)

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1st cross-bar:
http://i.imgur.com/4VI6pw5.jpg
2nd cross-bar:
http://i.imgur.com/lgOKhPA.jpg
The fists is activated less regularly so I like to put it there so I can change on the fly. The empty spots in first page is for Dragon Kick and One Ilm Punch. I plan to level up dragoon for Blood for Blood as well but that's what I got so far and it works great. Mantra and Perfect Balance will be on page 2 in buff section. Maybe change around for Howling Fist depends on how useful it is.
Edit: to the post below, I've seen some time in highly congested FATEs.

Noticed something fairly frustrating today in AK.. apparently if you are grouped with another monk (funny enough I had 2 such groups today), your Dragon Kick debuffs are mutually exclusive, so when you see the other monks Dragon Kick debuff at 3-4s left and decide to refresh with your own, it does nothing, and the debuff instead falls off... highly, highly frustrating. But that's not the best part, randomly the Demolish and Touch of Death of 2 monks on the same target will conflict, your dot will not land and you will receive a floating error message something like "Demolish: No effect!", and your form does not change either. Plenty of headdesk moments during those runs for sure.

Really hope this is just a rare bug in Light Parties, maybe some bug that's only allowing one set of monk debuffs on a boss (this might also be going on during FATE boss zergs, but who can tell with the abysmally cluttered debuff-UI).. anyone else seen this happen when grouped with another monk?

Just curious, how you guys feel about the monk dps on big fights like garuda, titan & coil.

Seems like we get the short stick on all of those fights.

No time to get our full rotation going that we have to move to hide or dodge aoe.

When I see bards/summoners get 230+ dps it make me feel sad that we have to work soo hard for our dps and only get 150-160dps out of it.

I can easily pull 200-215 dps in AK with full DL set and ifrit claw but unless they make some changes to the way fights are in end game, I feel like the monk class will be the less appreciated of all.

I would lose ToD for fracture in all honestly, since the animation for touch of death is too huge. Demolish shouldn't be use much as well if the enemy is stunable.

Mythril Peak is 40 CD and it is Off GCD, so even if it's not stunable(like bosses) it's still damage(quite high as well). The only problem Animation.

I don't recommend a full on rotation because:
1: positioning
2: lag
3: off GCD abilties
4: thinking (yes you should be thinking and adapting, and actually focus on more then those blinking lights)

5:Animation. 12 second grease is wrong, it is applied (near)after the animation, so if you're throwing in a demolish.. that 1 second cut off might make or break your grease.

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Originally Posted by MeldorQC

Just curious, how you guys feel about the monk dps on big fights like garuda, titan & coil.

I can easily pull 200-215 dps in AK with full DL set and ifrit claw but unless they make some changes to the way fights are in end game, I feel like the monk class will be the less appreciated of all.

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AK sucks royally for mnks, but no one knows coil and their "Every class is balanced if they play perfectly" remarks. Too much Hush hush on coil.

Ok guys, i'm not a huge fan of forums, but i'll put here the ultimate combo i made for monk, is really high effective, and can be done after 1 stack. Lets do it.

BTW: you can start with Perfect Balance but i would rather leave it if you lose the combo control.

Flank: Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch - Touch of death
Behind: Bootshine - True Strike - Demolish - Fracture
Flank: Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Release Steel Peak and press Snap Punch in the mid of animation

(ok so now you have 3 stacks, and dont need to renew the touch of death, so lets start the 7 Chakras Infernal Phase

Continue...

Behind: Release Bootshine and press Blood For Blood in mid of animation - Release True Strike and press Internal Release in mid of animation - Demolish - Touch of Death

Flank: Dragon Kick - Release Twin Snakes and press Howling Fist in mid of the animation - Snap Punch - Release Fracture and press Invigorate in mid of animation

Now your Chrakras are closing, finish your buffs with

Behind: Bootshine - True Strike - Demolish - Touch Of Death

Then back to:

Flank: Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch - Fracture
Behind: Bootshine - True Strike - Demolish - Touch Of Death
Flank: Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch - Fracture

Continue...

Until your Internal Release and Blood for Blood go out of CD keep it simple, is a really difficult combo, and u'll run out of tp really fast, around 2:30s to empty it ou your TP, so if u can use Invigorate 2 times would be perfect, and with 4 min battle the boss will run at least 80% hp (normal dungeons) so thats when u start to put 1 Mercy Stroke in your rotation in mid animations CD. After bosses 20% HP stack a grease, and right after spam the LB, ALWAYS AFTER THE SKILL THAT WILL STACK GREASE, so u can still do a fast 1,2,3 combo and stack again, that LB time will be useful to regen 150-180 tp, do 2 combos and Invigorate again. The boss at this point should be at 10% so you should be fine with 300 TP from invigorate.

I know is very complicate combo, but i hope you guys enjoy, and maximize your dps, laterz!

No

Fracture and Demolish last 18 seconds, Touch of Death lasts 30 seconds.
Depending on your skillspeed, you are at least clipping one tick of Fracture/Demolish and almost half of Touch of Death, and more if you have any skillspeed at all. You would probably do more damage doing a really simple 1-2-3 combo.

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Originally Posted by enil

No

Fracture and Demolish last 18 seconds, Touch of Death lasts 30 seconds.
Depending on your skillspeed, you are at least clipping one tick of Fracture/Demolish and almost half of Touch of Death, and more if you have any skillspeed at all. You would probably do more damage doing a really simple 1-2-3 combo.

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It's all timed for when bleeding skills reach 0s, test first, comment later, ty.

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Originally Posted by enil

No

Fracture and Demolish last 18 seconds, Touch of Death lasts 30 seconds.
Depending on your skillspeed, you are at least clipping one tick of Fracture/Demolish and almost half of Touch of Death, and more if you have any skillspeed at all. You would probably do more damage doing a really simple 1-2-3 combo.

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Oh and btw, when you have 2s global cd, you shouldd go for dmg, not speed, just a tip for ya. I've been playing monk from a long time in FFXIV, so i probably have more time of tests than u of gaming, nothing personal.

Why are you using true strike again? Though it is a fast animation.

It seems to me that the entire purpose of such a complicated set up with no room for error correction...is all to work around demolish and ToD...

When realistically can theoretically be useable within 100%-80% of first contact if even then. As boss mechanics kick in and you're reduced to a wimpering panic.

Basically the phase that doesn't matter...

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Originally Posted by Baky

Oh and btw, when you have 2s global cd, you shouldd go for dmg, not speed, just a tip for ya. I've been playing monk from a long time in FFXIV, so i probably have more time of tests than u of gaming, nothing personal.

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Personal anecdotes with no proof or logical reasoning is not very useful.
Let's say you have 2s GCD after 3xGL.

You are recasting Fracture,Demolish and HoD every 7 GCDS. 7 x 2s = 14s. You are recasting Fracture and Demolish before the full 18 seconds, you are cutting out over half of ToD, turning it into a 100 potency attack actually reducing your dps.

This is easily testable and repeatable.

Drop Demolish Fracture and ToD.

They lower your DPS by at least 50 damage. Try test them yourself, and no its not broken parsers.

For those who already tryed Titan HM:
So when we reach the heart phase is really hard for me to hit it, i don't know seems like is too high and i must be hunder the heart in order to reach it and eaven in this way i'm missing some hits, also i'm taking all his cleaves.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Again sorry for my bad english :x

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Originally Posted by Odiato

For those who already tryed Titan HM:
So when we reach the heart phase is really hard for me to hit it, i don't know seems like is too high and i must be hunder the heart in order to reach it and eaven in this way i'm missing some hits, also i'm taking all his cleaves.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Again sorry for my bad english :x

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No, you have to be away from it somewhat actually. If you're directly under it, your character will stutter from button mashing.

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Originally Posted by Odiato

For those who already tryed Titan HM:
So when we reach the heart phase is really hard for me to hit it, i don't know seems like is too high and i must be hunder the heart in order to reach it and eaven in this way i'm missing some hits, also i'm taking all his cleaves.
Does anyone have the same problem?
Again sorry for my bad english :x

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I stand under his feet on the sides and have better luck there...it is extremely annoying how tiny that hitbox is though.

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Originally Posted by Baky

Oh and btw, when you have 2s global cd, you shouldd go for dmg, not speed, just a tip for ya. I've been playing monk from a long time in FFXIV, so i probably have more time of tests than u of gaming, nothing personal.

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I hope you realize MNK 2.0 is nothing like 1.0. Not even a little bit.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Drop Demolish Fracture and ToD.

They lower your DPS by at least 50 damage. Try test them yourself, and no its not broken parsers.

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There is no parser that can accurately measure DoTs unless you have a self-made parser than contains everyone's unique stat data in order to run a simulation every time "X uses DoT" is in the chat log.

Even then, it wouldn't be accurate because the crits and damage+% effects would be different in each environment.

It's not that parsers are "broken," it's that parsers can't collect DoT data without depending on the author's own, predictive formula independent from the game. We pretty much have to wait for in-game apps to extract DoT ticks reliably.

Here's a simple test: go to a training dummy and apply Touch of Death. Manually record the ticks on paper or in a calculator. Add up the DoT damage and compare it to the parser. If these numbers don't match, there you go. If these numbers do match, run the test again--you will find it was a coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Here's a simple test: go to a training dummy and apply Touch of Death. Manually record the ticks on paper or in a calculator. Add up the DoT damage and compare it to the parser. If these numbers don't match, there you go. If these numbers do match, run the test again--you will find it was a coincidence.

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Parsers over estimate the damage of the DoTs actually. Try it yourself. Parses do an estimation of the DoT to be accurate as possible, and they over estimate the damage. So you do less DPS with over estimated DoTs compared to not using any DoTs at all.

The only DoT I've seen overestimated in parser is Fracture, since the parser can't differentiate between a WAR's Fracture and a cross-class Fracture. Both run for 30 seconds.

Nevertheless, all direct damage data is copy-pasted from FFXIV's chat log and all DoT data is a product of the author. I think relying on the parser's DPS feedback is unwise until we can extract DoT damage directly from the game.

We know for a fact DoTs receive all the benefits of STR, WDMG, DET, crit and damage multipliers. It's completely nonsensical for MNK DoTs to inflict less DPS than other skills, unless it's due to:
1) Player error - attempting to overwrite a waning DoT with a weaker form of that DoT (no effect)
2) Parser error - the parser does not correctly process the DPS rating of DoTs, even if the values are overestimated compared to in-game values - and again, I want to underscore the parser doesn't know when you use BfB/GL3/Internal Release on your DoTs, but it does know when you use them for direct damage WS.

I know this won't stop some people from barging into the forums with their big, smug grins saying "HAY SMN IZ BEST DPSESES MUNKZ R U EVEN TYRING?" or dickbutts on DF saying "I AM PARSING THIS AND THE PARSER IS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY ON EVERYTHING" but every little bit helps, I suppose.

Except that Dot also has the same problems of Boss mechanics, etc . Boss phases will often wipe dots as they are in a "invulnerable phase", ultra defense phase, whatever.

Mnks use dots because they have to. Their cross class abilities really limits them, but the question is, "how much".

First contact seems to be the best time to dot, as the boss simply rolls over for your attacks, and the other time is fly by dotting, when you want to dot, and move, because dots are more or less position independent.

But over the course of a boss fight, Considering how badly the animations , fracture not included, I much rather rely on spamming say ID (we did talk about this pages back) and timing off GCD skills in 1-2-3 combinations, from burst to burst windows.

Unless you get to be a pro at the fight, and know every damage window by heart, it's usually worth it to sacrifice optimization for flexibility.

If you get down to it, with almost all the boss fights, nothing really matters till below 50% anyway. that's when things get hairy. So I can all but say f-u to parsers for anything other then academic reasons.

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Originally Posted by Kalamari

Noticed something fairly frustrating today in AK...*snip*... anyone else seen this happen when grouped with another monk?

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Sounds like an isolated bug to me. Every time I've ever run with other monks our Dragon Kicks simply overwrite each other and our dots are always all up simultaneously. The only reason I could think of for Dragon Kick not overwriting is if one of you used it while under the effect of Blood for Blood and the other didn't. That doesn't seem likely though since the debuff is based on your stance and doesn't really matter how much damage it does (besides being absorb by stoneskin).

I have a question, and I'm sorry if it's been asked before (I did a search and nothing came up). I have a pair of giantsgall claws, no materia yet, but I also just obtained some Darklight Baghnakhs.

First of all, are the Giantsgall equips available anymore? I'm not sure where you'd get them anymore, had them in 1.0.

Secondly, the Darklight reduced my equip lvl from 70 to 55. Now, the biggest difference I'm seeing is -5STR for a lot more Skill Speed. I'll be honest, I don't have much experience w/ endgame MNK, but this actually seems slightly better, especially if STR caps out at a point (I have all STR bonus attributes and jewelry). Any ideas of what would work better for this type of build? (I only have AF currently)

A monks life for me!

I'm completely enjoying my (newly acquired Job) Monk; it's very engaging game play which makes it feel more interactive. Even just getting Demolish was eyecandy since i finally had a skill that utilized my feet! Lol. Pretty sure the enjoyment factor increases at the endgame when stats and bonuses make the rotations more fluid.

Plus we look the best with the coolest gear, which is the most important factor.

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Originally Posted by t00nc3ss

I'm completely enjoying my (newly acquired Job) Monk; it's very engaging game play which makes it feel more interactive. Even just getting Demolish was eyecandy since i finally had a skill that utilized my feet! Lol. Pretty sure the enjoyment factor increases at the endgame when stats and bonuses make the rotations more fluid.

Plus we look the best with the coolest gear, which is the most important factor.

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That goes to DRG...Darklight look horrible on Monk <_<

Anyway I'm turning Emo, I break my balls with monk rotation while Bard sits at range holding autofire on a macro and tops DPS charts...WTF?