Just discontinued subscription due to Wuk and increased wokeness across SE corp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gllt

Paradox of tolerance is a thing

---

Yes, it's been brought up several thousand times already when the hypocrisy is pointed out. Problem is that you're creating your own paradox and then dismissing any criticism of it by saying "Well, the paradox is a thing." The contradiction only occurs when your actions don't match your words - and given that your words are "Peace, love and acceptance man!" but the actions involve bullying and othering human beings and thus creates its own set of problems, or double standards or "paradox of tolerance." The truth of the matter is that every single one of you who has spouted vitriol at your fellow players and expressed sentiments of "we don't want you here anyway" is a hateful and spiteful individual hiding behind a mask of virtue. It's far easier to pretend you're a good person fighting a just cause and explain criticism away as paradoxical thinking than it is to come to terms with the fact that you're just bullies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Yes, it's been brought up several thousand times already when the hypocrisy is pointed out. Problem is that you're creating your own paradox and then dismissing any criticism of it by saying "Well, the paradox is a thing." The contradiction only occurs when your actions don't match your words - and given that your words are "Peace, love and acceptance man!" but the actions involve bullying and othering human beings and thus creates its own set of problems, or double standards or "paradox of tolerance." The truth of the matter is that every single one of you who has spouted vitriol at your fellow players and expressed sentiments of "we don't want you here anyway" is a hateful and spiteful individual hiding behind a mask of virtue. It's far easier to pretend you're a good person fighting a just cause and explain criticism away as paradoxical thinking than it is to come to terms with the fact that you're just bullies.

---

Man I didn't even talk to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiru_Kai

Tolerance is very simple to understand. Very simple to execute.

---

Then start pratrice it because :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiru_Kai

And "nuance" is not a concept in tolerance. Either you tolerate, or you do not. Adhere to the social contract, or do not.

---

This is the contrary of tolerance (Tolerance is to accept everyone and all the way of thinking and viewpoint)

Overall, you whole post don't talk about tolerance but how dictatorship work : my viewpoint is the right one, eveyrone else is wrong and if you don't adhere to it then i need to shut you up by every mean i have at my disposal.

What I will say is that unfortunately, American liberal politics is infesting everything we consume. And though there is a lot of debate on what exactly Dawntrail does that is considered woke, I can say with certainty that it's not necessarily as cut and dry as say the women leads in a Call of Duty game of yesteryear. But it's more of the themes that plague products such as Steven Universe and other modern western entertainment products. Owlhouse, etc, you can see the same themes and messages in this expansion. From Wuk Lamat's character, to the literal Disneyland area we go to in the final zone. It's not so much big things, but little tiny things that all build up to make a very weird and boring expansion with no tension, a lot of gaps in storytelling, and unrealistic themes. Even for a fantasy setting, Tural feels very bland and sterile, like the writers were afraid to offend people. Which is the problem with folks that try to be safe for everyone: when you are trying to be safe, you end up with the equivalent of a bland hospital-like appearance where everything is sanitized, gray, and boring. Nothing is allowed to be out of place or anything "bad". This same trope unfortunately is part of the woke brigade of today.

Using woke as a pejorative makes you an asshole hth.

How is this cesspit still going? Hang it up already, no one is convincing anyone of anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gllt

Paradox of tolerance is a thing

---

Paradox of tolerance is a poor attempt at excusing hypocrisy.

You see the thing with equalitarism concepts like Tolerance, is that they apply to everyone, even bad people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

See title.

• Bought FFI for NES as a kid.
• Bought a Playstation in college just to play FF VII.
• Played both FFXI and FFXIV at NA launch.
• Own all FF main series games and most spinoffs up to and including the PS4, CIB, (including original Japanese FC and SFC games).
• Stopped playing new FF games after playing FFXV, when the series turned into DMC/Souls-like fast-twitch-based games.
• Discontinued FFXIV subscription and will not be purchasing the upcoming Dragon Quest remasters or Sieken Densetsu due to EXTREMELY poor wiring in DT, as well as Western wokeness and DEI infesting SE corporation-wide.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi..._IV_Ending.png
~fin~

---

Are you going to provide any evidence that so-called "wokeness" or DEI were involved in the writing for this game? Or in "Sieken (sic) Densetsu"? And no, "muh chest binder", "muh MC no look manly enough" are not evidence. Lmao if you're going to be such a weeb as to use the Japanese title for an upcoming game that is coming to the west, at least spell it right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rotpecra

im lgbt and i think the voice acting of wuk was terrible sorry

---

I agree with that, but that's not what OP and other people here are dog whistling about

Somehow bad voice acting and bad character writing got turned into a holy crusade against "wokeness"

If the voice or the actor were the problem with Wuk Lamat she wouldn't have been unpopular in JP, too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepperblue

I agree with that, but that's not what OP and other people here are dog whistling about

Somehow bad voice acting and bad character writing got turned into a holy crusade against "wokeness"

If the voice or the actor were the problem with Wuk Lamat she wouldn't have been unpopular in JP, too

---

The reason she is unpopular in JP is because her character is insufferable. The English VA was blatantly under-qualified to take on the role, their performance and delivery were sub-par. English players got double whammy'd. That's why you are seeing so much frustration being vented.

I will just explain the plan of Square and all these other companies. They want to condition you to accept garbage and not be able to have any complaints about it. This is what is happening now and every single one of you that says this person is a bigot is part of the same kind of mob that would stone people on the streets for having an opinion.

It is the right of all of us not to like something. These companies want to take that right from you, deliver you garbage and still get your money. That is what wokeness really is... just the right to get your money without any work at making good content.

Wokeness refers to poor quality content hidden behind a shield of ideology and victimhood while feeling entitled to your hard earned money. Do not be tricked.

I see a different definiton to "wokeness" and its ills like every thursday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepperblue

I see a different definiton to "wokeness" and its ills like every thursday

---

"Woke is when bad games"

why did we have 36 pages of discussion about completely unrelated topics then, close up the thread, Dawntrail's MSQ is "woke." /s

You can ask 7 people what "woke" is and receive 8 different answers, anyone who still tries to use it is trolling, willfully ignorant, and/or dogwhistling. At least it's Monday so mods will probably close the thread soon.(tm)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SushiOishiiii

Wokeness refers to poor quality content hidden behind a shield of ideology and victimhood while feeling entitled to your hard earned money. Do not be tricked.

---

Sounds like a budget Bioshock Andrew Ryan quote lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

See title.

• Bought FFI for NES as a kid.
• Bought a Playstation in college just to play FF VII.
• Played both FFXI and FFXIV at NA launch.
• Own all FF main series games and most spinoffs up to and including the PS4, CIB, (including original Japanese FC and SFC games).
• Stopped playing new FF games after playing FFXV, when the series turned into DMC/Souls-like fast-twitch-based games.
• Discontinued FFXIV subscription and will not be purchasing the upcoming Dragon Quest remasters or Sieken Densetsu due to EXTREMELY poor wiring in DT, as well as Western wokeness and DEI infesting SE corporation-wide.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi..._IV_Ending.png
~fin~

---

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magikazam

Paradox of tolerance is a poor attempt at excusing hypocrisy.

You see the thing with equalitarism concepts like Tolerance, is that they apply to everyone, even bad people.

---

If marginalized groups tolerate their intolerant oppressors, the oppressors ultimately eliminate the marginalized groups and their tolerance with it.
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you'll do Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to rationalize why people should just accept your prejudices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

---

He's holding the door open while shouting inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

If marginalized groups tolerate their intolerant oppressors, the oppressors ultimately eliminate the marginalized groups and their tolerance with it.
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you'll do Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to rationalize why people should just accept your prejudices.

---

I must have missed the chapters in history where Arabs eliminated their European slaves or where Europeans and Americans eliminated their African slaves or where Africans eliminated their own African slaves, or where Egyptians eliminated their lower classes... Or maybe you mean the chapter where-in European nobility eliminated the peasantry? I must have missed that chapter too.

I didn't miss the numerous chapters in history wherein peasants overthrew and executed or exiled their rulers.

Gotta admit, haven't had one of these trash fire threads in a minute. Anyone got the popcorn to share?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Gotta admit, haven't had one of these trash fire threads in a minute. Anyone got the popcorn to share?

---

You can have my popcorn, but only if I get the bucket back after you're done to puke in it because of all the hypocrisy going on here...

Some people really seem to think they are the next coming of Jesus or something akin to an angel on earth, when they were calling a person who made themselves vulnerable by coming out about harassment they had to endure a 'shizo' just a few pages back.
Don't even dare to say that and then try to talk about 'mental health' afterwards when you have no idea what suffering real schizophrenic people go through, and what stigma they have to deal with. Being called 'psychos', how they are being portrayed in media...and you just play right into that and then act like you are the good guy in this scenario? Oh please.

Normally I'm pretty calm and neutral about topics like those, I try to see both sides and don't want any conflicts to happen. Or, even worse, escalate stuff...
But this...it makes me angry. Acting all protective about one minority while using language like this towards someone who certainly had a traumatic experience while at the same time showing your prejudice towards another minority.

I'm sorry for the off topic rant (not that there is any topic to follow at this point anyways). But this 'holier-than-thou' attitude makes me sick to my stomach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

I must have missed the chapters in history where Arabs eliminated their European slaves or where Europeans and Americans eliminated their African slaves or where Africans eliminated their own African slaves, or where Egyptians eliminated their lower classes... Or maybe you mean the chapter where-in European nobility eliminated the peasantry? I must have missed that chapter too.

I didn't miss the numerous chapters in history wherein peasants overthrew and executed or exiled their rulers.

---

It obviously doesn't have to be in a literal sense of killing them, but limiting or flat out removing any agency they have. Why were there slaves in the first place? Why did we move on from the practice? Because we stopped tolerating those who wanted to enslave others, leading to a more tolerant society.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

If marginalized groups tolerate their intolerant oppressors, the oppressors ultimately eliminate the marginalized groups and their tolerance with it.
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp but you'll do Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to rationalize why people should just accept your prejudices.

---

"Fight fire with fire, make the marginalized groups the oppressors and oppress the former oppressors." Thanks for confirming your a bigoted oppressor who delights in the suffering of the so called "oppressors".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aniise

I'm sorry for the off topic rant (not that there is any topic to follow at this point anyways). But this 'holier-than-thou' attitude makes me sick to my stomach.

---

I feel like the "holier-than-thou" attitude has become part of what defines the players of FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aniise

Some people really seem to think they are the next coming of Jesus or something akin to an angel on earth, when they were calling a person who made themselves vulnerable by coming out about harassment they had to endure a 'shizo' just a few pages back.
Don't even dare to say that and then try to talk about 'mental health' afterwards when you have no idea what suffering real schizophrenic people go through, and what stigma they have to deal with. Being called 'psychos', how they are being portrayed in media...and you just play right into that and then act like you are the good guy in this scenario? Oh please.

---

I would imagine using a mental illness as a derogatory term is against forum guidelines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

I would imagine using a mental illness as a derogatory term is against forum guidelines.

---

I surely hope so because I reported that message, but it's still not deleted.
So I guess the mods either think it's okay to just give people such labels or there are no mods around.

I don't know how I can take anyone seriously when they use the word "woke" to complain about something.

Honestly, I have no issue with the VA's personal identity. The thing I do have issue with, is that the VA did so poorly that it is entirely immersion breaking. Several scenes I've re-watched in other languages and the other VA nailed those scenes so well, but the English VA at most times delivers their lines with the cadence of having a normal face to face conversation. Sometimes the lip flaps don't even line up like they do for other languages, almost as if the VA didn't pay attention or even see what was going on in the scene to match the emotion, strain, tone, urgency of the situation.



Then again, it isn't the first English VA actor to be bad in FFXIV, but it is certainly the most prominent one with the most lines that stands out the most for all of the wrong reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kitkat

Honestly, I have no issue with the VA's personal identity. The thing I do have issue with, is that the VA did so poorly that it is entirely immersion breaking. Several scenes I've re-watched in other languages and the other VA nailed those scenes so well, but the English VA at most times delivers their lines with the cadence of having a normal face to face conversation. Sometimes the lip flaps don't even line up like they do for other languages, almost as if the VA didn't pay attention or even see what was going on in the scene to match the emotion, strain, tone, urgency of the situation.



Then again, it isn't the first English VA actor to be bad in FFXIV, but it is certainly the most prominent one with the most lines that stands out the most for all of the wrong reasons.

---

Ah, sweet Minfilia, the memories hahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aniise

But this 'holier-than-thou' attitude makes me sick to my stomach.

---

Don't worry I'm fully aware I'm a spiteful gremlin, but I'm not gonna coddle and reinforce someones feelings for living scared and paranoid about when wokeness might strike next. Pretending like that's an ok and reasonable reaction I find to be much more harmful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

It obviously doesn't have to be in a literal sense of killing them, but limiting or flat out removing any agency they have. Why were there slaves in the first place? Why did we move on from the practice? Because we stopped tolerating those who wanted to enslave others, leading to a more tolerant society.

---

Why were they slaves in the first place? In the beginning it would have been military victories, later it was still martial might (in part through technological superiority), toward the end of the era of conventional slavery it was tribes rounding up their own and selling them into slavery, it's interesting how economics works.

Why did we move on from it? There you have a few different arguments and I don't remember my history classes well enough to give the answer I got in school, but there is the answer of egalitarianism, I also get the answer of economics from Americans I'm friends with. Might have something to do with the campaign the British Empire conducted against the trade, probably made slaves prohibitively expensive. Which raises another point about "evil straight white men", doesn't it? The same race, sex and sexuality that made the transatlantic slave trade a thing ended conventional slavery on a global scale. How terribly evil of them, I guess it is kind of oppressive though to force our anti-slavery ways on the rest of the world, I'll give you that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

"Fight fire with fire, make the marginalized groups the oppressors and oppress the former oppressors." Thanks for confirming your a bigoted oppressor who delights in the suffering of the so called "oppressors".

---

Someone oppresses someone for their identity.

The oppressor is called out for abusive bigoted behavior.

Oppressor: "oH mY gOd sToP oPpReSsInG mE!"

Weirdo behavior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Someone oppresses someone for their identity.

The oppressor is called out for abusive bigoted behavior.

Oppressor: "oH mY gOd sToP oPpReSsInG mE!"

---

how DARE you be offended at me for wanting people like you to not exist!! you WOKE people are so oppressive!

/s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

Don't worry I'm fully aware I'm a spiteful gremlin, but I'm not gonna coddle and reinforce someones feelings for living scared and paranoid about when wokeness might strike next. Pretending like that's an ok and reasonable reaction I find to be much more harmful.

---

I see you didn't even get half of what I wrote, not that I'm surprised.
I just hope you'll never have to deal with the suffering of the people whose conditions you use as petty insults. Because I don't wish that on anybody. Not even people like you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I don't know how I can take anyone seriously when they use the word "woke" to complain about something.

---

I dont even get why they use the word ‘woke’. Like isn’t that something good? Who wants to be asleep their whole life? I’m kinda glad I’m awake tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

It obviously doesn't have to be in a literal sense of killing them, but limiting or flat out removing any agency they have. Why were there slaves in the first place? Why did we move on from the practice? Because we stopped tolerating those who wanted to enslave others, leading to a more tolerant society.

---

Slavery still exists all over Africa, the Middle East and many parts of Asia. It didn't just cease to exist simply because you decided to put on your little "We should all be good people" hat. Funnily enough, these places also have incredibly bad track records with women's rights, LGBT and trans rights, rights around religous freedom and freedom of expression and so on... The "tolerant society" that you espouse exists in a tiny fraction of the world and you'll be surprised to find that most of the world doesn't actually agree with that. Many of these cultures still believe in things like the spoils of war and being able to use slave labour simply by beating another people into submission... And we tolerate these people enough to trade and treat with them on an international stage to the point where, unless you're only buying products produced in the US or in Western Europe, then you're profitting from slave labour regardless. Sweatshops paying out pennies per day to workers... That'd never fly here. We have unions, we have worker's rights, we have a society that generally would not accept such conditions... But when those sweatshops are in China, and churning out the latest iPhone and you don't need to imagine the conditions, everyone laps it up... And for what? So you can all sit online feigning moral superiority to strangers as if any of us believe that you're actually the paragon of virtue you claim to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

I dont even get why they use the word ‘woke’. Like isn’t that something good? Who wants to be asleep their whole life? I’m kinda glad I’m awake tbh

---

sheep will adopt any buzzword their pet politicians throw at them even if they don't understand the meaning

just in this thread people have come up with like 5 different definitions of what woke means

https://media.tenor.com/Eba7Ahn8zxQA...y-sienfeld.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

Don't worry I'm fully aware I'm a spiteful gremlin, but I'm not gonna coddle and reinforce someones feelings for living scared and paranoid about when wokeness might strike next. Pretending like that's an ok and reasonable reaction I find to be much more harmful.

---

You're right, that's a harmful attitude to have that borders on paranoia,

don't use "schizo" as an insult though

This dog whistle thread hasn't been closed yet? Moderators really been dropping the ball lately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tachion

https://media.tenor.com/Eba7Ahn8zxQA...y-sienfeld.gif

---

Forum moderators when they open this thread lol