Was any of the 6.3 content worth waiting 4 months for?

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Originally Posted by Imora

True, but there are things to consider.

For example, my reasoning for keeping my sub is twofold.

I might feel like playing (I've actually spent a whole day in game catching up on msq now), and I have a house.

I have a basic sub. It costs less to maintain than a single meal at McDonald's (I live in a really bloody expensive country), and isn't a big deal for me.

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My point stands, its your Money, spend it how you want.
But dont blame anyone else but yourself if you continue to authorize and pay for something you are unhappy with.

However, it sounds like you are enjoying your time in the game, so your subscription isn't a waste.
So things are good :P

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

My point stands, its your Money, spend it how you want.
But dont blame anyone else but yourself if you continue to authorize and pay for something you are unhappy with.

However, it sounds like you are enjoying your time in the game, so your subscription isn't a waste.
So things are good :P

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Yup, pretty much.

It's a trade off. And a cheap one at that. But if you don't think your house is worth five minutes every month and 13 bucks, don't complain about losing it.

Wish they added more social stuff in the game, not necessarily cooperative or competitive, just doing stuff together. Sorta like Gold Saucer minigames, casual ocean fishing, that sort of stuff.

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Originally Posted by SillyCrow

Wish they added more social stuff in the game, not necessarily cooperative or competitive, just doing stuff together. Sorta like Gold Saucer minigames, casual ocean fishing, that sort of stuff.

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At one point I thought they were working on an instanced hangout area, like the TT Battlehall but for different kinds of social activities. That might be a combination of misreading an interview and wishful thinking because it would be nice to have a comfy pretty area to chill with cross-world friends right from the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by SillyCrow

Wish they added more social stuff in the game, not necessarily cooperative or competitive, just doing stuff together. Sorta like Gold Saucer minigames, casual ocean fishing, that sort of stuff.

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It still hurts my soul that they just didn't bother with hamlet defenses from 1.0. It was semi-cooperative but the battle classes fought against enemies attacking a town while the DoH would craft items to rebuild/reenforce buildings and such while the DoL would gather for the ingredients for the DoH to do their job. All that while the battle classes were keeping the enemies at bay.

I liked the content in 6.3 and I think it is moderately foolish to try and judge a patch before the whole patch is out. That said, I really wish that any one of the new tribe, new potd, or new relic step had made it into 6.3. There is pretty much nothing for a casual player to be working on right now and I am not particularly excited to get 3 different grinds dumped on me at the same time.

As someone that stopped at 6.0 and came back at 6.3... Honestly, Island Sanctuary is such a bummer. I was hoping for something with more mini-games such as fishing, and incentive to collecting stuff. Also a bit more customization options, different exteriors you could mashup and craft (not unlike housing outdoor). As of now it is a glorified cookie clicker. Also the z-e-r-o multiplayer aspect is a bit meh as well, given that every island look pretty much the same, there's no reason to visit.

Personally I love slow-paced games such as Cozy Grove and Animal Crossing so I don't really mind that aspect. Unlocking things and taking time is actually there but the rest... isn't.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

As someone that stopped at 6.0 and came back at 6.3... Honestly, Island Sanctuary is such a bummer. I was hoping for something with more mini-games such as fishing, and incentive to collecting stuff. Also a bit more customization options, different exteriors you could mashup and craft (not unlike housing outdoor). As of know it is a glorified cookie clicker. Also the z-e-r-o multiplayer aspect is a bit meh as well, given that every island look pretty much the same, there's no reason to visit.

Personally I love slow-paced games such as Cozy Grove and Animal Crossing so I don't really mind that aspect. Unlocking things and taking time is actually there but the rest... isn't.

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Impossible, that's already a profession! But I do agree that a few more things to do there would be nice, as would be better exterior stuff. Personally I'd prefer if IS allowed you to basically do housing but without a plot in a ward, since it'd be a real good place to put housing at. Plus well it opens up a LOT of plots for people.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

A game company that dont try to please its playerbase is also on its way to bankruptcy. Holy shit. Everything you have spoken so far is absoluttely out of the original meaning and you are taking everything out of yer arse.

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A bit touchy about the subject then? I get triggered myself when I see lines like " Its more pressure on the devs, but you cant ever say No to your players." Because it is stupidly false. The reference to that well-worn beginning "The Customer ..." is the basis for such drivel.

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Also, you know nothing about WOW it seems.

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I started playing the game back in 2008. And continued for 10 years. Anyone comparing Warriors of Draenor to Endwalker is mumbling about story design, not gameplay. There isn't much else to compare the two games of WoW and FFXIV, so ...

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ALso, we are not speaking about story here. Wtf are you about. Are you just on some crusade to defeat all those FF haters, who dares to speak about your loveable game with pristine best story ever? Cmoon.

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Do I think this game is the end-all and be-all of all time? Nope. Do I think it should drag things from World of Warcraft to make it "better"? Nope. Do I think someone comparing WoD and EW are comparing storyline? Yup. Why? Because there isn't really anything else to compare between the two games, as the gameplay is so different. And the patch schedule for FFXIV is much cleaner than WoW.

I know you mashed up two of the three posts I made. And you're angry. But ...

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

I only said that devs cant just say "We dont want to bring new content into our schedule". That would just spread hate towards them. And then dome DPZ came up with "Customer is always right" bs that nobody cares about.

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Hmmm. You might have meant that, but you actually wrote but you cant ever say No to your players. How else am I to interpret that statement given the context?

As an aside, the word "dumb" isn't spelled "dome" ... Do better next time.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Impossible, that's already a profession! But I do agree that a few more things to do there would be nice, as would be better exterior stuff. Personally I'd prefer if IS allowed you to basically do housing but without a plot in a ward, since it'd be a real good place to put housing at. Plus well it opens up a LOT of plots for people.

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I'm not exactly saying they should copy fishing as it is today, but maybe apply a similar approach to things such as capturing animals. The whole "just click" that permeates the entire island is what makes it boring imo. Maybe we could plant/collect flowers and trees around the island, or you actually had to go through immersive steps in order to unlock certain things: craft a underwater clothing to get stuff in the sea, choose one of your livestock and train it to be your flying mount, have npc as visitors (maybe the ones from custom deliveries you reached at top rank?) the more you upgrade your island and trade goods with them as decoration, or even just... random visitors, really. Like a cute moogle, or Alpha, or even the Scions. Can you imagine people fangirling because Aymeric is visiting or something hah.

You could even put an ambiental message inside it, like learning how to humans can interact with nature and grow together with it (like, the Amazon forest is a product by the populations that lived there, it's not a virgin forest, the human involvement before colonization was in fact beneficial to the forest! anyway you get my point)

Even Lost Ark or Black Desert have more interesting mechanics when it comes to this type of content. FFXIV team is usually very good at getting these details of immersion right but this time they droppped the ball.

It's just this giant plot of land (that is very pretty!) which you click on things. The UI and music in general are very, very pretty and I enjoyed most of the rewards, but it's a huge shame how lacking it is.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

As someone that stopped at 6.0 and came back at 6.3... Honestly, Island Sanctuary is such a bummer. I was hoping for something with more mini-games such as fishing, and incentive to collecting stuff. Also a bit more customization options, different exteriors you could mashup and craft (not unlike housing outdoor). As of now it is a glorified cookie clicker. Also the z-e-r-o multiplayer aspect is a bit meh as well, given that every island look pretty much the same, there's no reason to visit.

Personally I love slow-paced games such as Cozy Grove and Animal Crossing so I don't really mind that aspect. Unlocking things and taking time is actually there but the rest... isn't.

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I'm <<still>> salty about IS. I get that the person behind the idea had good intentions but it sucked so bad it killed my interest for the game for the almost entirety of patch 6.2. I'm not in the group that expected it to be instanced housing, but I expected it to be enjoyable at least.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

I'm <<still>> salty about IS. I get that the person behind the idea had good intentions but it sucked so bad it killed my interest for the game for the almost entirety of patch 6.2. I'm not in the group that expected it to be instanced housing, but I expected it to be enjoyable at least.

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Yeah I also felt that Private Housing was a huge stretch (and tbh was impressed the amount of people that actually believed in this), but definetly expected something more elaborated than what we got. Even normal gardening in ffxiv seems somewhat deeper than the whole island mechanisms.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

I'm <<still>> salty about IS. I get that the person behind the idea had good intentions but it sucked so bad it killed my interest for the game for the almost entirety of patch 6.2. I'm not in the group that expected it to be instanced housing, but I expected it to be enjoyable at least.

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Hard agree. My interaction with IS has essentially boiled down to "Do the bare minimum to get max rank for the glamours, then ignore until they add more glamours"

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's about the same as ShB, tbh, in content amount. Story quality is...well, ShB and HW were the highest quality we could get. This is just a filler arc, it's nowhere near that level of quality.

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I feel a big part of Endwalker's lackluster feeling is the content they have released has woefully missed the mark. Island Sanctuary is little more than a glorified retainer venture after a very short initial investment and Criterion has no real demographic since they bafflingly made both versions Savage-esque. This pretty much made it dead content for the overwhelming majority of players and the lackluster rewards meant it had zero replay value for everyone else—especially the Savage+ version. Both of these were supposed to be big selling features of Endwalker and while they haven't flopped per se (very debatable), they certainly haven't been a glowing success. Which puts Endwalker in a real rut as there really isn't any repeatable content given the absence of a new exploratory zone.

If there was every a time to highlight how poor a decision it is to continuously delay the relic well into a year of the expansion's lifecycle, Endwalker is all but screaming it.

I guess there was the Ultimate that only 0.01% of the players would actually get to enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Elizasylen

I guess there was the Ultimate that only 0.01% of the players would actually get to enjoy.

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The irony is Ultimate actually takes up a very small amount of resources according to the devs. Sure, it looks like a massive undertaking but outside of a single boss model and arena everything is reused assets. Even the music has been recycled in both Omega and Dragonsong whereas previous Ultimates saw at least the Primals rendition. So even if they cut out Ultimate, the patches wouldn't see much else added if anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Elizasylen

I guess there was the Ultimate that only 0.01% of the players would actually get to enjoy.

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I agree we're light on content, but saying only 0.01% of players do ultimate is hilariously wrong. Lucky Bancho statistics show a range of about 0.5% (Crystal NA) to 6.5% (Mana JP). And that's only people who have cleared and not people who have done some prog but haven't cleared.

I was just thinking, presumably the new deep dungeon has some weapons to collect like potd and hoh did. The timing could be better with that arriving the same day as manderville weapon upgrades and the new upgradable dol/doh tool series, besides other content.

There was barely anything substantial to grind for the last year and then a mountain of slow grind stuff comes all at once. So again I say the patch structure could be improved to smooth out the peaks and lulls. The first VC dungeon made it out a bit earlier but having no gear rewards at all set it up to die.

It depends on how much you're playing. I raid like once or twice a week and I still have loads to do. My biggest issue is redoing old-ish content with jobs that have missing abilities and feel very shallow. If I were to play every day I'd probably feel the same but I really don't want that. lol

At least the big grind stuff should start at x.1. I don't get why they do it like they do atm. For one of the biggest MMOs on the market I do expect a bit more but what we get is always high quality so..

I guess I'm divided on the issue.

Dungeon was better than 6.2 (not a high bar to clear) the 24 man is way to safe still and is inferior design wise to ivalice and YorHa and a argument can be had with Shadow of Mhach aswell. Story is highly debatable but we can all agree it had better beats when we weren’t playing as a literal flawless godslayer. Trial is great, as expected. Unreal is easier (not the fault of the game, Sephy will be missed)

Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by Elizasylen

I guess there was the Ultimate that only 0.01% of the players would actually get to enjoy.

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Overall Ultimate participation (not clear) rates are in the 15%+ but Ultimate itself is only like 1% of all the content in the game. It also generates interest from content creators and streamers which creates a little advertisement for the game. And even for the players who will never step foot in there, it's a potential goal one day while leveling and gearing that motivates them.
Also importantly, players are running Ultimate all the time. Even now Party Finder has more listings for Ultimate than Savage or the current EX.

For one single boss with reused assets, Ultimate is incredible value for resources.

Island Sanctuary on the other hand? That required the devs to create an entire detailed Island for every player, kept the majority occupied for a week and is now dead content. Just 60s click and collect a currency every day. Most people ignore it, I'd say it'd be lucky to have 15% participation rate now. Casual content is a much bigger drain on resources. Especially since casual players have short attention spans and in this game are mostly averse to grind and earning things. Casuals are content sponges.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Just 60s click and collect a currency every day.

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Man that has to be the greatest misfire of this expansion. I loved the concept. There's potential in the island idea to be a great value addition to the game.

The way I imagined it was having only 1 building on the island, but a much larger and more customisable one that serves as your base. Maybe one mammet around, not an army of them so you're constructing upgrades by yourself. Your minions would all roam around there instead of spread out so much.

The exports thing would be more of an active pastime, like an enjoyable minigame with no timegating that lets you keep earning the more you play it. There could also be more of a minigame for collecting materials which replaces the standard click click node gathering system. Something similar to the spearfishing minigame outside of island content where you time your button presses to moving targets and finish with a haul of many items.

I thought the central base area would have enough purpose and QoL features that you could treat it like a second home and have some things to do around there. Anyways

No, it really wasn't, and If you planned to resub in 6.3 I recommend doing so after 6.35 comes out because half the content of this patch or even more is there.

What we are missing. Another version of Bozja. The relic content the past 2 years have been engaging and probably the best filler content to hold people over until the next major patch. Since we dont have that, now people are hoping deep dungeon will hold us over.

Criterion dungeons while many dont want to admit it was a failure. The rewards were non existent so the content died after 1 or 2 runs.

With patch 6.3 and with all odd number patches we normally get much less MSQ than even number patches. The trial being apart of the MSQ takes away from the impact that the weapons had in shadowbringers. The fact that there were trials outside of MSQ didnt create an illusion that we had more content. It was actual side story content that was engaging and had a good storyline.

For me I am just writing this entire expansion as the meh expansion because it follows the pattern of:

Heavensward--- Really good
Stormblood----Meh
Shadowbringers----Really Good
Endwalker----Meh

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Originally Posted by Melorie

As someone that stopped at 6.0 and came back at 6.3... Honestly, Island Sanctuary is such a bummer. I was hoping for something with more mini-games such as fishing, and incentive to collecting stuff. Also a bit more customization options, different exteriors you could mashup and craft (not unlike housing outdoor). As of now it is a glorified cookie clicker. Also the z-e-r-o multiplayer aspect is a bit meh as well, given that every island look pretty much the same, there's no reason to visit.

Personally I love slow-paced games such as Cozy Grove and Animal Crossing so I don't really mind that aspect. Unlocking things and taking time is actually there but the rest... isn't.

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I use the Island Sanctuary as an example when citing something I absolutely hate from the game and think is an unmitigated disaster. I've been called an apologist for this game but Island Sanctuaries were a waste of developer time. WoD Garrisons were better.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I agree we're light on content, but saying only 0.01% of players do ultimate is hilariously wrong. Lucky Bancho statistics show a range of about 0.5% (Crystal NA) to 6.5% (Mana JP). And that's only people who have cleared and not people who have done some prog but haven't cleared.

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Im confused, are you saying single digit participation in a piece of content is a successful piece of content?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im confused, are you saying single digit participation in a piece of content is a successful piece of content?

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Clear rates and participation is not the same.
People participate in the content well before getting an Ultimate clear which is why Rolder specifically mentioned that this is just the people who cleared. Participation rate is much higher. So considering the resources spent (a lot of reusing assets), Ultimate is extremely resource-efficient as the participation rate is good, it has a lot of longevity (people still run UwU/ UcoB, they're usually even the first choice for people trying Ultimate) and you don't have to think up completely new concepts like with IS where you have to do develop the core concept first.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im confused, are you saying single digit participation in a piece of content is a successful piece of content?

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What's more successful, content that's lasts years and continually done by many people since it's inception or abandoned content by even it's target audience.

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Originally Posted by FatalFatalis

No, it really wasn't, and If you planned to resub in 6.3 I recommend doing so after 6.35 comes out because half the content of this patch or even more is there.

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Screw 6.35, jump back in at 6.5, its of many reasons why FFXIV blew up in Shb so well. People came into the game late into the expansion cycle and had 5-6 months to catch up even when starting fresh...

Im disappointed that even with the story concluded they still continue to put out these predictable patch cycles. I’d figure they try something new but it looks to be the exact same formula

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Im disappointed that even with the story concluded they still continue to put out these predictable patch cycles. I’d figure they try something new but it looks to be the exact same formula

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To be fair, it at least sets expectations from the player base on what we'll get.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im confused, are you saying single digit participation in a piece of content is a successful piece of content?

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It all depends on the target demographic and the resources required to make said content. For the sake of argument let's say Dragonsong and Omega have a combined clear rate of 3-5% by the conclusion of Endwalker. Going forward, they will continuously see participation and clears well into 7.0 and beyond. Meanwhile, Island Sanctuary will have been entirely abandoned ala The Firmament. Both Ultimates very likely took less resources than just the current rendition of Island Sanctuary, nevermind we're supposedly getting a second island. Ironically, the value of that island will have greatly diminished because crafters no longer need materia. So the one reason to continuously collect cowries after obtaining all the glamour is gone.

So while Island Sanctuary undoubtedly had a larger participation rate than Ultimate, it also cost substantially more to make and has a much shorter lifespan—to the point Dragonsong and Omega will likely surpass it in the coming years because it has longevity. Look no further than UCoB and UwU which are still being cleared to this day nearly six years later. The aforementioned Firmament? It's completely dead save for grinding crafters on an alt.

And even if they adjust the rewards for doing IS accordingly to keep up it is another resource investment. A small one admittedly but compared to Ultimate that they release and can then safely ignore once the initial bug check/ fix is over it still needs someone to keep an eye on it.
Class balance is all over the place in old Ultimates because they don't look at it once released and relatively big/ issue-free, content from 6 years ago gets run regularly without putting in any effort at all to keep it going. It really doesn't get any more resource-efficient than that.

The rewards from IS will eventually be outdated except for hairstyles/ glam and need further attention to keep it going even for the target audience. There has also been critique like the mammets ruining the atmosphere, something else to consider going forward. Or the desire for a bit more customization. They already stated that they're not done with IS and will add more and adding things takes resources. It's more of a long-term project for the devs than the players that can just do a glorified retainer venture once per day and spend the rest of the day sitting in a virtual landscape or hacking away at trees and stones for no real reward except having something to turn the brain off.

Same for V/C which was overall a pretty big failure and they would have to put in more resources to salvage it. Ultimate are a one-and-done release barring some bugs/ issues that need fixing like the auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

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You seem unhappy with the game, so why not quit? Why keep giving SE your money? If you don't enjoy something, don't do it. You paying for it tells SE that you are satisfied with their product. They don't read these forums, they don't care beyond that.

Also you keep saying Major patch. In patch cycle systems a major update constitutes an increase in the major patch number. IE. 4.0 - 5.0 - 6.0 -7.0
Everything in between is minor updates. A major patch only happens at an expansion release.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Thank you for proving my point that you have to stay subscribed in order to keep it, thus that is not taking a break from the game.

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Yeah like do they not understand the game is not free lol?

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

You seem unhappy with the game, so why not quit? Why keep giving SE your money? If you don't enjoy something, don't do it. You paying for it tells SE that you are satisfied with their product. They don't read these forums, they don't care beyond that.

Also you keep saying Major patch. In patch cycle systems a major update constitutes an increase in the major patch number. IE. 4.0 - 5.0 - 6.0 -7.0
Everything in between is minor updates. A major patch only happens at an expansion release.

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Because apparently they love stepping on poo and procede to complain about having to step on poo for days, weeks, months instead of washing it off.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

To be fair, it at least sets expectations from the player base on what we'll get.

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But at the same time, the predictability makes things start to feel dull and boring for anyone whose played for more then an expansion or two. There's no spice, no variety.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

But at the same time, the predictability makes things start to feel dull and boring for anyone whose played for more then an expansion or two. There's no spice, no variety.

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I would normally just want them to make sure giving us what we expect but also throw in at least something new into the mix




...oh wait..

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Because apparently they love stepping on poo and procede to complain about having to step on poo for days, weeks, months instead of washing it off.

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You mean the same style of complaint the rpers and erpers and the unskilled did that eventually changed large aspects of the game and content delivery manage to do?

If people view this as complaining then so be it, if it mark some kind of change (that's been done before) then I'm all for it

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Ironically, the value of that island will have greatly diminished because crafters no longer need materia.

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Not that I disagree with your entire post in general - Though, I personally don't think Firmament was really intended to be content that survives beyond the expansion it was implement - Granted, this is bad design.

However,

Eh.. Crafters will be using Cunning IX materia way into 8.0 if they keep to their current trend, we've only recently tossed away with Cunning V from 3 expansions ago. Ain't no crafter capable of doing maths going to be abandoning Island Sanctuary - That's a free approx. 2200 Cunning IX materia between now and 7.0.

Just because current expansion gearing has concluded this does not mean that this materia won't be used in future expansions, especially cunning materia.