Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

What the pic doesn't tell is the context: how those players died & how's that WHM behaving and/or performing averagely.

It's a good laugh, though. Good sketch xD

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Yeah im out BUT...OP needs to understand this picture is the situation that their own words are putting into peoples minds, so its hard to empathize. xD That picture is great.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

With the drawing now everything make sense

I read through 32 pages but one drawing get me straight to the point

I so want to steal the picture now

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Every thread that involves an event that happened in game now needs to be sumarized with this type of art work. Beautiful.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

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If you'd like someone to chat with or play with from time to time on Primal, feel free to track me down and add me sometime.

Little Imp#3917 if you use discord.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

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Firstly, I'm going to say that I don't think you're a bad person either -- I'm not a forum regular or anything like that and we all have our times when we're pleasant and not so pleasant. I think calling you a bad person was a bit much IMO, it was unnecessary and rather an emotional dig at you, not that we've been the most rational in this thread clearly lel. I think everyone has gone for the "OP you need to look inwards" like every 10 posts in, how much more do we need?

I'm sorry you're struggling rn, while I can't begin to understand all that pain, I do have anxiety/depression as well and can at least relate a little on that front. I also think that while yeah some of your behavior on this thread specifically has been rather provocative, people shouldn't be provoking you for a report, that's just weird.

My question to you, and obviously you do not have to answer, is if you reach out to professional services at all? I know it's easier said than done esp considering if you're American, but there are free resources out there that you can utilize.

I only ask because if you want people to respond more empathetically I'd just consider talking to someone more equipped to handle emotions than the cringelords of the forum. While I understand it's an outlet for you, the tone of your posts (at least here, idk how you act elsewhere) will just make the majority of the people respond with callousness, snark, and whatever else right back and just make the problem worse.

FWIW, a warning is a warning. I don't think you deserve to get your account banned, on the game or on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

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Hey Xaruko_Nexume, could you be so kind to edit a post you made quoting Churro? Seems he decided to remove that response and I think it will be cool you remove it too. Thanks!

Same goes for Padudu, will be really cool if you do it too. Thanks!

Also, I apologize for double posting but I couldn't fit it all in, I responded less than kindly earlier in the thread on the presumption that you were just being aggressive/stubborn for the sake of it and I'm realizing that may not be the case, so I'm sorry if anything I said came across as personal attacks.

edit: yeah I didn't realize they deleted, I'll edit accordingly

Meh... I'll lay off since it seems like you're having a genuinely hard time.
I just wish you would have done the same for me when I was having a rough go of it in the past.
If you did nothing wrong, good luck with your appeal.

I'm not buying it. Just because the body is in your apartment and we found it without a search warrant and thus can't use it against you in court doesn't mean it's not there.

Having a hard time IRL doesn't justify oppressing strangers in-game. I'm no saint - far from it, and I dislike bad players, but as a healer main I keep them alive at all costs. It's what I signed up to do.

I agree with you though that not informing you if this is the reason you got a warning is a bad approach on SE's end. How are you not going to be a repeat offender if you genuinely don't know your offense?

Strum, we don’t interact so much but I hope you are ok, and if not that it’s ok to not be ok.. it will always get better.

I wanted to reiterate everything I posted here was a genuine attempt to help you think about all the angles and ultimately find some closure. I hope that at the end of all this you can find yourself in a happy situation and enjoying the game again, clean record or not. And if there are blemishes, to see them as learning opportunities, not cracks. Fail forward, as they say.

If it means talking to someone or just venting amongst friends in a safe space, do whatever you gotta do.

I hope at the end you find yourself a better person and a better player all around.

I would leave you with with: “Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” — Bernard Baruch.

Best wishes in all of this, sincerely.

[QUOTE=Reality23;5841406]snip
Secondly, your presumption is that high end raiders who heal will suddenly tunnel on only the tank? sure, that's possible. i really doubt it, they don't typically get to that point by developing bad habits. I really think that they prioritize the tank , just as they would prioritize themselves, which is a completely different thing. That doesn't mean their attention is exclusively on those 2 party members, nor does it have to be exclusively on healing throughout an encounter. The comment about mechanics being hard to avoid ? I'm not sure what you would expect. Healers are normally going to use various tools like aoe regens, shields, etc however at a certain point, if someone insists on collecting vulnerability stacks, or if they insist on having some on-shot mechanic dropped on them, their future isn't going to look too bright. That's on them.

However, where you go on to claim that " The problem especially exists in games where healers are expected to DPS as well,' considering that most games expect healers to DPS as well, and that healers are "shocked' when dealing with 'ordinary" people? along with 'culture shock and resentment" ? I honestly have no idea of what you're talking about. if anything, it's quite the reverse, sure there can be the exception, but from what i've seen the healers that join DF are typically expecting sprouts and people who consider that they're only being healed if they are at 100% health all of the time.

however, I'm a poor reference for healer woes, check this link - we still have the highest number of votes its seems - up to 90. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...tions%21/page9

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Secondly, your presumption is that high end raiders who heal will suddenly tunnel on only the tank? sure, that's possible. i really doubt it, they don't typically get to that point by developing bad habits. I really think that they prioritize the tank , just as they would prioritize themselves, which is a completely different thing. That doesn't mean their attention is exclusively on those 2 party members, nor does it have to be exclusively on healing throughout an encounter. The comment about mechanics being hard to avoid ? I'm not sure what you would expect. Healers are normally going to use various tools like aoe regens, shields, etc however at a certain point, if someone insists on collecting vulnerability stacks, or if they insist on having some on-shot mechanic dropped on them, their future isn't going to look too bright. That's on them.

However, where you go on to claim that " The problem especially exists in games where healers are expected to DPS as well,' considering that most games expect healers to DPS as well, and that healers are "shocked' when dealing with 'ordinary" people? along with 'culture shock and resentment" ? I honestly have no idea of what you're talking about. if anything, it's quite the reverse, sure there can be the exception, but from what i've seen the healers that join DF are typically expecting sprouts and people who consider that they're only being healed if they are at 100% health all of the time.

however, I'm a poor reference for healer woes, check this link - we still have the highest number of votes its seems - up to 90. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...tions%21/page9

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If you're speaking of the most voted healer question, somebody from earlier page deleted... or have their post deleted for whatever reason so that question got moved to earlier page... found it: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5830484

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I haven't logged into the game for like 4 days now, this makes absolutely no sense to me. Is this because I leave many dungeons I get into? Because I don't hardcast raise players? Because I try to focus on DPS uptime while juggling heals? Am I going to have to be paranoid about how I play the game now? Why doesn't my own game experience matter?

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Not sure if troll or satire but Ill bite, maybe try a DPS role? If you are that worried about DPS uptime.

Wow, thanks. 159 likes on the Live letter healer question. Impressive.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Wow, thanks. 159 likes on the Live letter healer question. Impressive.

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Wow, I'm absolutely floored by what's been accomplished without healers. I mean, I'm looking at whm here and I sincerely can't help but feel like the job has too many safety net heals.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Wow, thanks. 159 likes on the Live letter healer question. Impressive.

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Have been asking more intense heal gameplay since we moving more and more toward oGCD heal.
I remember being told EW would tune to be more intense, instead we got unkillable tank (sorry not you DRK)

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Originally Posted by Juun

Not sure if troll or satire but Ill bite, maybe try a DPS role? If you are that worried about DPS uptime.

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Neither. Healer in this game should be doing DPS as well as heals.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

From all the info I could gather (and the way OP express herself) in this thread. Following is purely my educated guess.

The most likely reason for the warning seem to be “revive”

OP have mention she only Swift cast and only hard cast “valuable” team members. So I believe some member got left on the floor, and I believe there are some verbal argument between said member and OP?

Since OP have not mention the reason/s for not reviving those/that member, I think GM look into the log and come to conclusions of the warning.

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I rarely get into arguments in-game, as I rarely chat, and typically the other player is calling me names and harassing me.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

Have been asking more intense heal gameplay since we moving more and more toward oGCD heal.
I remember being told EW would tune to be more intense, instead we got unkillable tank (sorry not you DRK)

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I don't have any issue whatsoever with OGCD heals. There are people (please not saying it's you) who don't see a cast bar and their first thought is "wtf heals", and don't even realize that heals have a limited range, or that standing at a 'ranged" position means running like an Olympic sprinter to avoid mechanics (and I'm too old for that).

I really would like a dedicated job designer , because they not only would look at the healer jobs, but hopefully they would be involved in the dungeon designs. we could do some very interesting things as healers in terms of dungeon mechanics but some of our tools - like Esuna- are just not well designed for those types of mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I'm not buying it. Just because the body is in your apartment and we found it without a search warrant and thus can't use it against you in court doesn't mean it's not there.

Having a hard time IRL doesn't justify oppressing strangers in-game. I'm no saint - far from it, and I dislike bad players, but as a healer main I keep them alive at all costs. It's what I signed up to do.

I agree with you though that not informing you if this is the reason you got a warning is a bad approach on SE's end. How are you not going to be a repeat offender if you genuinely don't know your offense?

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I shouldn't have posted it in the first place, I didn't delete it fast enough. It wasn't the place, and it killed my thread.

"Oppress" is a bit of a strong term, I think. I don't dislike bad players, I dislike players who blame, attack, and demand of others when something goes wrong. They die and then demand me to drop everything I am doing, when there are 7 other players in the party. I have literally been harassed over it. Yes, I will prioritize a 'valuable' role or job if I have to hardcast raise, because they are necessary for a smoother run. The truth of the matter is an RDM or even SMN is a better use of a hardcast raise. A tank or healer is infinitely more 'valuable' for obvious reasons. It sucks that they can't play, but when they die it really is, typically, their fault. I try to heal them, I put a shield on them. Often times, I see people not even entering my Asylum, and are too far away to receive either mine or the other healers heals. Keep in mind, again, for this sort of content - I am not the only healer. If things are going well, I would actually be overhealing. For a person to die this means, they died despite there being two healers in the party.

I have adjusted to runs, I have had to solo heal many times, and saved runs. It's not as if I am incapable of doing it. I just don't appreciate being attacked, regardless of their frustration. I have never resorted to reporting the player, even when they have harassed me. I see it being done out of spite. I understand the rationalization of players in this game reporting others to 'discourage' future behaviour, and, granted, it has seemed to work on some level, however it has bred passive-aggressive hostility, through the fear of bans. If ToS enforcement wasn't so seemingly heavy-handed I could understand it, but this is a game. It doesn't actually matter that much, and I just do not think it is worth putting another person's account at risk for something so petty. Have the disagreement, and then forget about it - or don't - but resorting to going after players for the sole purpose of getting them banned is too far.

Anyway, yeah, I don't even know if it was due to how I approach healing and raises, or something else. I have no idea what the heck I am being hit for. We are talking thousands upon thousands of runs, since apparently it doesn't necessarily mean anything recent. I will never know either, whether my appeal passes or not. I will have no idea what the actual issue was.

So I could be missing the post amidst the dumpster fire.. but how’s the appeal going so far? Any update?

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

So I could be missing the post amidst the dumpster fire.. but how’s the appeal going so far? Any update?

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It has been several days now, and no updates. Not that I actually expect much. I will most likely have to live with this disgusting mark on my account for the next 3 years or whatever.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

:confused: Uhh.. I don't see how when the player instantly dies in the majority of the examples I gave.

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Ah, so we've reached the sophistry part of the thread. Raising is part of the healer kit.

The point is that people in parties are going to do unexpected things. They're going to do stupid things. It's going to be their fault. That doesn't change the idea that our role includes raising and healing. As I mentioned in a previous comment, sometimes there is a player who is straining our resources and we cannot pay as close attention to them. But that is not leaving them to their own devices because something was their fault. We're still responsible for utilizing our abilities to support our party even if they do dumb things. And if that idea is unacceptable, then you don't seem to be fit for being a healer in a situation where there are random elements. I'm sure you do fine in premades where all expectations are known and understood.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I don't have any issue whatsoever with OGCD heals. There are people (please not saying it's you) who don't see a cast bar and their first thought is "wtf heals", and don't even realize that heals have a limited range, or that standing at a 'ranged" position means running like an Olympic sprinter to avoid mechanics (and I'm too old for that).

I really would like a dedicated job designer , because they not only would look at the healer jobs, but hopefully they would be involved in the dungeon designs. we could do some very interesting things as healers in terms of dungeon mechanics but some of our tools - like Esuna- are just not well designed for those types of mechanics.

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I am not against oGCD heal. Just I would rather spending more time healing than dps.
Unfortunately, I could not take part in savage. The most “chaotic” normal content would probably be Alliance raid, and with a competent team I am still doing dps more than 80% of time.
With oGCD instant heal, it feel even worse.

Just the other day, doing expert roulette healer DC around 50% in a boss fight, we managed to finish the boss without anyone dying.

Heal rework is really long needed, I miss the old day where we barely survive Titan HM triple storm

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I don't have any issue whatsoever with OGCD heals. There are people (please not saying it's you) who don't see a cast bar and their first thought is "wtf heals", and don't even realize that heals have a limited range, or that standing at a 'ranged" position means running like an Olympic sprinter to avoid mechanics (and I'm too old for that)

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Reminds me back in ShB when a random co-WHM in Delubrum normal typed in party: ”Glare isn’t your only button.” after first boss. I just had to respond in snark: ”Cure II & Medica II aren’t WHM’s only healing button.” because that’s what they’ve been doing whenever damage happens. Wasted my Asylum, Tetra, ignored my Temperance, and did not take account my Assizes and burning Raptures for movements. Of course I swapped into Glare Mage mode while also being one of the higher dps contributor.

They stopped healing entirely from that point probably out of pettiness or whatever, but it only serve to further prove how redundant their ‘contributions’ are prior to that point. I never stopped my Glares. And they also Glared much more. Sounds like a win-win for the group to me.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Ah, so we've reached the sophistry part of the thread. Raising is part of the healer kit.

The point is that people in parties are going to do unexpected things. They're going to do stupid things. It's going to be their fault. That doesn't change the idea that our role includes raising and healing. As I mentioned in a previous comment, sometimes there is a player who is straining our resources and we cannot pay as close attention to them. But that is not leaving them to their own devices because something was their fault. We're still responsible for utilizing our abilities to support our party even if they do dumb things. And if that idea is unacceptable, then you don't seem to be fit for being a healer in a situation where there are random elements. I'm sure you do fine in premades where all expectations are known and understood.

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I honestly don't think it matters how many times I explain what I mean, or whatever else. It seems pretty obvious that, as a white mage, I am expected to cure 2 spam players, medica 2 spam, and hardcast raise the instant anybody dies. I'll go back to playing RDM more often if I ever get my weapon for it. Much less of a headache. I probably should buy some crafted gear for it.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

Heal rework is really long needed, I miss the old day where we barely survive Titan HM triple storm

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These days are long gone unfortunately
If we don't want whales, then we have to sacrifice challenging content so that the support stands on casuals and limso land
lesser evils and all that

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I honestly don't think it matters how many times I explain what I mean, or whatever else. It seems pretty obvious that, as a white mage, I am expected to cure 2 spam players, medica 2 spam, and hardcast raise the instant anybody dies. I'll go back to playing RDM more often if I ever get my weapon for it. Much less of a headache. I probably should buy some crafted gear for it.

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No it doesn’t matter.

Sounds good on the RDM thing. A 35 page rant where most people turned against you isn’t a good look for your appeal either if it even matters at all. Just learn to be a chill person and if you feel like a company did an injustice to you stop giving them money and move on to other games. You’ll be better off for it.

https://c.tenor.com/i1NRTdeC3PAAAAAC...pened-here.gif

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No it doesn’t matter.

Sounds good on the RDM thing. A 35 page rant where most people turned against you isn’t a good look for your appeal either if it even matters at all. Just learn to be a chill person and if you feel like a company did an injustice to you stop giving them money and move on to other games. You’ll be better off for it.

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I always played RDM quite a bit, but white mage is my main. At the start of an expansion I have to choose which to gear. I don't have gear for my RDM - so I can't play it regularly. I don't think anybody actually 'turned against' me, however. More like that's how it was at the start. Lol. There aren't any better games, as if. This is the best mmorpg available currently.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Yeah, even if it's not your intention to powerplay, it can certainly come off that way. I don't know why some people are so strict when it comes to DF groups, it's pretty easy content. I was feeling a little inspired and decided to sketch out what you should avoid doing in DF since a picture is worth a thousand words. (This is my original character, please don't steal)
https://i.imgur.com/yICUayo.png
I hope this helps people avoid getting warnings in the future.

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Can i share this and credit you?

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Originally Posted by Axxion

Can i share this and credit you?

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I appreciate people still liking my artstyle. Seems to be catching on! :D

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I always played RDM quite a bit, but white mage is my main. At the start of an expansion I have to choose which to gear. I don't have gear for my RDM - so I can't play it regularly. I don't think anybody actually 'turned against' me, however. More like that's how it was at the start. Lol. There aren't any better games, as if. This is the best mmorpg available currently.

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RDM is a good choice, being a dps is less likely to get into argument with other player or DPS role is more “invisible” in general.

I certainly found it less stressful to play DPS than heal and tank. I tend to gear one job in each role, for a change when I get bored or when I am tired and brain not working.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I honestly don't think it matters how many times I explain what I mean, or whatever else. It seems pretty obvious that, as a white mage, I am expected to cure 2 spam players, medica 2 spam, and hardcast raise the instant anybody dies. I'll go back to playing RDM more often if I ever get my weapon for it. Much less of a headache. I probably should buy some crafted gear for it.

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I genuinely think it would be a good idea to try a DPS job for a while. Id suggest something like black mage or samurai as opposed to red mage though. Red mages have a raise and even a small heal and it sounds like you may want to avoid situations where you might be expected to help others.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

RDM is a good choice, being a dps is less likely to get into argument with other player or DPS role is more “invisible” in general.

I certainly found it less stressful to play DPS than heal and tank. I tend to gear one job in each role, for a change when I get bored or when I am tired and brain not working.

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I have literally played RDM for years, it's not even a matter of choice. RDM has been my main DPS since the start of ShB. I played it more often prior to the expac, because I had equivalent gear. Without a proper weapon, my DPS would be lower than it should be. This means six more weeks, until I can actually play RDM. I typically tank dungeons, DPS when bored, but otherwise I heal.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I genuinely think it would be a good idea to try a DPS job for a while. Id suggest something like black mage or samurai as opposed to red mage though. Red mages have a raise and even a small heal and it sounds like you may want to avoid situations where you might be expected to help others.

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If somebody actually wanted me to do something, this sure isn't the way to do it. This sort of comment usually has the opposite opposite effect on somebody like me. ;)

I mostly avoid playing support roles in Casual DF content despite tanking being my main on the hardcore side of things, due to a few bad experiences. I once had a guy rant at me for an entire 15 minute dungeon run because I was "turning my back to the enemy" and taking "increased damage", and he devolved into calling me a WoW refugee and said he was going to report me. I've had people complain about me DPSing as a healer in low level content, despite no one dying or even going low. I've had someone call me 'trash' for not being fully melded in Tenacity as a tank. A lot of casual players have very different preconceptions about what being 'good' is. You'll notice the more optimally you play as a healer, the less likely you are to receive comms at the end of a dungeon, regardless of how much faster you make the dungeon go. (low health is scawy :( )

Might be worth spending more time in EX/Savage, as you'll probably find more people that share your outlook.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I mostly avoid playing support roles in Casual DF content despite tanking being my main on the hardcore side of things, due to a few bad experiences. I once had a guy rant at me for an entire 15 minute dungeon run because I was "turning my back to the enemy" and taking "increased damage", and he devolved into calling me a WoW refugee and said he was going to report me. I've had people complain about me DPSing as a healer in low level content, despite no one dying or even going low. I've had someone call me 'trash' for not being fully melded in Tenacity as a tank. A lot of casual players have very different preconceptions about what being 'good' is. You'll notice the more optimally you play as a healer, the less likely you are to receive comms at the end of a dungeon, regardless of how much faster you make the dungeon go. (low health is scawy :( )

Might be worth spending more time EX/Savage, as you'll probably find more people that share your outlook.

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Yep. They have a propensity to start name calling, cursing, etc.. If you don't keep them topped off at 100% - while they proceed to not use a single DCD, wanting you to drop everything to focus heal them while they stand in every mechanic under the sun (at the expense of the rest of the party), hardcast raise them if and when they die, etc.. I'm not surprised with the "WoW refugee" thing. I haven't really been called that myself, but that's like many in this community's go to insult. It is quite hilarious how you will end up being called a 'bad' person or whatever for a difference in playstyle, while the other person is here literally harassing you.

I don't want to be a burden on a ex/savage static or something like an FC. I have never been big into PvE, but if I did join one, I feel like it would be more like a job to me than 'fun', after awhile. Then I would feel stuck, because I wouldn't want to waste everyone else's time, just because I have lost interest. I also don't like to get involved with friend groups or people anymore, as they have constantly ended in drama, and I just don't want to deal with that potential.. I lock myself in an innroom or my house, chat with nobody, and try to play semi-optimally, that's about it.

Wow you guys are sure still goin

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep. They have a propensity to start name calling, cursing, etc.. If you don't keep them topped off at 100% - while they proceed to not use a single DCD, wanting you to drop everything to focus heal them while they stand in every mechanic under the sun (at the expense of the rest of the party), hardcast raise them if and when they die, etc.. I'm not surprised with the "WoW refugee" thing. I haven't really been called that myself, but that's like many in this community's go to insult. It is quite hilarious how you will end up being called a 'bad' person or whatever for a difference in playstyle, while the other person is here literally harassing you.

I don't want to be a burden on a ex/savage static or something like an FC. I have never been big into PvE, but if I did join one, I feel like it would be more like a job to me than 'fun', after awhile. Then I would feel stuck, because I wouldn't want to waste everyone else's time, just because I have lost interest. I also don't like to get involved with friend groups or people anymore, as they have constantly ended in drama, and I just don't want to deal with that potential.. I lock myself in an innroom or my house, chat with nobody, and try to play semi-optimally, that's about it.

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While I don't agree with your assessment of what a healer's responsibility is in this game, it should go without saying name calling and harassment is never okay.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

While I don't agree with your assessment of what a healer's responsibility is in this game, it should go without saying name calling and harassment is never okay.

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Says you when you call people indecent etc. or we going to ignore the hypocrisy or your statement?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't want to be a burden on a ex/savage static or something like an FC. I have never been big into PvE, but if I did join one, I feel like it would be more like a job to me than 'fun', after awhile. Then I would feel stuck, because I wouldn't want to waste everyone else's time, just because I have lost interest.

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I'd recommend pugging around a bit, but I kind of gather you're probably not enough of a masochist for that. If you find dungeons can be frustrating, wiping to pinax 50 times or seeing enrage in p2s when everyone has the tome weapon probably won't be much better.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I also don't like to get involved with friend groups or people anymore, as they have constantly ended in drama, and I just don't want to deal with that potential.. I lock myself in an innroom or my house, chat with nobody, and try to play semi-optimally, that's about it.

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Yeah I don't blame you, people on this game in particular seem to have a propensity for falling out over really weird stuff. I've seen groups collapse over lore disagreements, rp relationships, housing decoration (lol?), raid clears, you name it. The only upshot to drama is that it makes it easier to single out the other people who don't like drama either, which is pretty much how I've built my core group of friends over the years. Having a good sense of humor, and knowing when to just walk away is important for the sake of your sanity when navigating FFXIV's bizarre social politics.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Says you when you call people indecent etc. or we going to ignore the hypocrisy or your statement?

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You said on these very forums that everyone you encounter in the game except MAYBE your spouse, is a means to end. I stand by that factual statement 100% that is most indecent.