Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Do you support anyone on patreon or twitch for a certain tier and then demand the rewards from the tiers you don’t pay for? Go to the gym and demand a private trainer for free because you pay a membership fee? Extras work means extra cost, and we already get a ton of bang for our buck. This isn’t difficult to understand, and people far more eloquent and patient than me have already wasted their life minutes trying to explain it, but still the oppressed gamers cry out....won’t somebody please think of the consumer?!

Y’all really wilding out over a smiley boy mount.

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I can't imagine going to a Con like KatsuCon or ComicCon and demand every item in the market to be free, just because you paid the entry ticket

I don't mind that the cash shop exists, but I do mind when items are added that have not, and never will be, available in-game. I have seen a lot more of that this past year, everything from minions and mounts. outfits to housing items. We could be using our acheivement points, or something similar to the itinerant moogle. If you don't want to "grind" it in-game, sure go and buy it instead, your choice.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I don't mind that the cash shop exists, but I do mind when items are added that have not, and never will be, available in-game. I have seen a lot more of that this past year, everything from minions and mounts. outfits to housing items. We could be using our acheivement points, or something similar to the itinerant moogle. If you don't want to "grind" it in-game, sure go and buy it instead, your choice.

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Hypocrite at the best...
Especially when you are wearing a bunny suit that they just hand to you for free.
If that is the logic, we will never get any regional unique items from Japan, China, and Korea.

If you got problem with with cash shops, dont buy it.
Even netflix have to raise the monthly subscription fee to cover the rise in labor and cost.
Did S/E raise their subscription fee?
Just be happy that S/E at least is reasonable at mog station.
Go check Blizzard's re-skin mount that price at $35 to $40

To be fair, ffxiv gives SO many mounts SO many free beautiful costumes you can farm or buy with in game currency that those extras on mogstation items dont bother me at all.

i always liked the fact that when you missed out on a seasonal event that you still have the chance to buy it. in my opinion they did not have to add seasonal items at all after its over.

I'm just going to make an assumption here: I have a feeling some people on this thread, like OP, 1) plays on console and 2) watches certain videogame commentators on YouTube. I won't say names, but someone mentioned the name of an overweight Brit with red-tinted sunglasses. Him, a Korean guy with glasses from Venezuela (who looks like Hideo Kojima) and a constantly angry Puerto Rican dude are among them. I bring this up, because those channel cover topics about DLC, gotcha games, monetization schemes, lootboxes, greedy companies, price gouging, microtransactions, done by companies like Activation and EA. If these YouTubers go on a topic like, say, overpriced dlc, some players on this forum look to the mogstation items and make comparisons. (Why is this COD map pack $13.99 and my FFXIV glam is $18?)

But here's the thing: the games these YouTubers discuss AREN'T mmos. For one thing, FFXIV doesn't have loot boxes. I'd rather spend $24 on a mount than spend $24 towards RNG to get a low-chance shot at the mount. If that $24 is used up without getting the mount, you'll spend another $24 to another chance. As someone here mentioned, for as much money as FFXIV makes, they also have a ton of costs. They have to keep their servers running for many years past the initial release, make content for each patch and expansion, and fund other projects. Regular console games by comparison don't need the same high cost to maintain their online services. The online of a Call of Duty game will last between 1 to 2 years. By comparison, FFXIV is 10 years. Tell me which one costs more to maintain? It's why DoA6's over $1200 of was criticized. The developers DON'T need that much money and the game won't last more than 3 years. Team Ninja recently announced that they're ending it's dlc support. So when TN and the community moves on to DoA7, after it comes out on PS5, DoA6's online support will drop and all the money spent on DoA6's dlc goes down the drain.

I should also mention that FFXIV never sold DRK, RDM, or DNC separately as dlc, which every single fighting game does nowadays. And for fighters, you HAVE to spend money on each character to understand match ups. You'll be hard-pressed to beat Gill or Seth in Streetfighter V, without the dlc to study the characters. The mogstation's non-mandatory cosmetics can't even compare to that.


Not everything SE did was good, but FFXIV can't be compared to Fortnite, Monster Hunter, or any console game in terms of it content costs. So stop it.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

From what I can find SE typically reports an operating income under $15 billion yen a year on all 3 of their MMO titles, that's about $139,140,000 USD and then broken down by 3 you get $46,380,000 USD yearly, by month that's $3,865,000 USD so you're not that far off really, of course the actual amount no doubt differs between the different games. That said the net earnings is above that $15 billion yen marker, so they're probably bringing in more per month, regardless that's not counting the money SE makes on other stuff like mobile games, books, goodies, collectibles, amusement park/arcade stuff, and all the miscellaneous stuff they put out on the market. The employee costs are usually a business side of things so SE can rearrange and redistribute developers as needed on their various products, makes it easier for them to manage crunch and help out struggling teams with extra staff without having to sign up a bunch of new contracts.

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Right, but my point was that SE is a complete business wiht many facets. FFXIV's profits arent dedicated to only FFXIV. They go to whatever SE needs cash on. Consider that you said that they generate money from MObile Games, Books, goodies, Collectibles, Amusement stuff etc, well all those things also generate costs to manage too. And even money that is net profit isnt necessarily free to be used. If they have, for example, 2 million spare dollars at the end of hte month they generated from FFXIV, they may not dump that back into FFXIV development, but 'loan' that money out to a new IP or project theyre currently working on. When that IP/project finishes, it pays back the loan (typically), but in the mean time that money is in use and isnt readily tapable by FFXIV devs. And this also assumes that business pursuit actually generates a profit.

While much of my work is guess-timation at best, the point I hoped to establish was that yes SE pulls down a ton of cash, but that doesnt mean they have a ton of spending money at the end of the day. I dont believe people really understand that concept from a business perspective.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

snips

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Pretty much this in a nutshell. It's why I said earlier if we want to get on board the hate train for Gambling Proxies (loot boxes) or games where the DLC released Day 1 is actually the rest of the game they purposefully chopped off, then Im on board with that. Being able to pick and choose cosmetics at my discretion while still being given the lion's share for simply being subbed is 100% fine in my book.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Hypocrite at the best...

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Oh dear. Is name calling all you have?



Yes, you can still get those special items. You can buy the entire cash shop inventory for all I care. I did not say I thought the cash shop should be closed. I said there should be a choice - buy if you prefer, or earn in-game. For seasonal items, the chance to earn is gone, I'm fine with that as well. It's the items that have never been offered in-game that concern me.



and as for your other suggestion, I have never used the cash shop, and never will.

Still waiting for Y'shtola black mage outfit to be put in game.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

Oh dear. Is name calling all you have?
Yes, you can still get those special items. You can buy the entire cash shop inventory for all I care. I did not say I thought the cash shop should be closed. I said there should be a choice - buy if you prefer, or earn in-game. For seasonal items, the chance to earn is gone, I'm fine with that as well. It's the items that have never been offered in-game that concern me.

and as for your other suggestion, I have never used the cash shop, and never will.

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"Should"
So such a lovely world for people with entitlement mindset.
Government should bla bla bla
Teacher should bla bla bla
A school should bla bla
A magic world can ignore all other factors that changing and shaping the reality.
This is a word used by people who acts on his or her own stated beliefs or feelings
Who is name calling here? I only describing a fact

They need to make the mogstation items sellable, TERA had it that way i just farmed some ingame money and bought them on the market if ppl wanna spend their irl money to make ingame gil i dont really care it's their loss.

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Originally Posted by snipski

They need to make the mogstation items sellable

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No, they don't. If you want to earn in-game currency, play the game. If you want something from the store, make a purchase from the store.

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Originally Posted by snipski

They need to make the mogstation items sellable, TERA had it that way i just farmed some ingame money and bought them on the market if ppl wanna spend their irl money to make ingame gil i dont really care it's their loss.

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This would be a huge step to ending RMT.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Still waiting for Y'shtola black mage outfit to be put in game.

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When's the last time you've been to the store? Do you look at the Promos they have at the Login screen?
Its been in the Store for quite a while now.
If you men her Montoya ShB outfit.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Who is name calling here? I only describing a fact

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Here's a big hint. Don't call someone a hypocrite and then pretend you are the one being offended. The term for that is gaslighting. That's a fact.



I don't agree with you. That does not make me entitled, or a hypocrite, nor anything else you wish to call me.



What you need to do now is get over it.

Players willing to invest literal days worth of resource grinding cannot fathom not spending maybe a dollar out of every 20 they spend to get one cash shop thing a month.

Time is your only true resource, money is just another thing you can buy with that resource.

As long as items on the shop don't give an advantage with gameplay, the shop is ok with me and I love some of the fun items they put there. There are plenty of mounts you have to work for in game, plenty of awesome mounts that they have given us for free with special events for minimal effort, and plenty on the shop.

They all don't have to be attainable by one way only.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

My biggest gripe is that mog station mounts usually look interesting and polished, while in game mounts are mostly shrank down mob/boss models.
You can tell how much care and attention in game mounts get by looking at the Ramuh mount...it doesn't even have a normal galloping animation despite being a half-horse because the boss just levitates...

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Somewhat ironic to be making this complaint in a thread about a Mog Station mount that is a scaled-up monster model...

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

I can only ask again, with all the supposed cash shop money, the cut back content, my removed dungeon... what do i exactly get for it? On top of all I am allowed to buy another retainer if i pay for a premium app - whichs basic funtions should be ingame anyways...

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Wasn't it confirmed ages ago that the app simply gives you a free retainer?

IIRC people leapt on the wording that you'd be allowed to "hire an additional retainer" but that's exactly what you do within the game: you go to the retainer advocate and hire an additional one if you are entitled to do so, usually by having subscribed to the service on Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

I'm just going to make an assumption here: I have a feeling some people on this thread, like OP, 1) plays on console and 2) watches certain videogame commentators on YouTube...

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The rest of the post aside, I fail to see what "playing on console" has to do with a player's attitude.

If anything, from another website I visit which has separate message boards by platform, the PS4 FFXIV board is far calmer and less negative than the PC board.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If anything, from another website I visit which has separate message boards by platform, the PS4 FFXIV board is far calmer and less negative than the PC board.

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No mods, no parses and less anonymity since PS4 players can see each others' PSNs.

Steps towards a healthier community.

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Originally Posted by Gula

No mods, no parses and less anonymity since PS4 players can see each others' PSNs.

Steps towards a healthier community.

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Never understood that. People should own what they do or say online. I am using the same name on here as my character, and this name is one of two of the same names that I have used for over a decade on a multitude of games/websites.

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Originally Posted by Gula

No mods, no parses and less anonymity since PS4 players can see each others' PSNs.

Steps towards a healthier community.

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I agree with the parses thing, if you want to maximize your DPS and practice then a parse is great but there are way too many people that see it like a bragging right and the elitism isn't even hidden.

I hope SE never implements a built in parser.

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Originally Posted by Gula

No mods, no parses and less anonymity since PS4 players can see each others' PSNs.

Steps towards a healthier community.

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Especially considering that PSN ToS explicitely states that your PSN account can be banned in result of violating rules in any of the games if administration will decide so. I doubt anyone would be excited about the idea of losing their account for being rude in FF14 (though on the other hand I doubt that many people spent the entire hour reading ToS, it's quite long).

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

I agree with the parses thing, if you want to maximize your DPS and practice then a parse is great but there are way too many people that see it like a bragging right and the elitism isn't even hidden.

I hope SE never implements a built in parser.

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In what way do they ever show its a bragging right ingame? And what's wrong with bragging in the first place? I figure it must be nice to be able to brag with your dps meter when you've cleared savage content and got good gear (coming from casual player who never did savage raids yet).

I think people don't like parsing because they don't want others to know when they are performing badly, shield themselves from any judgement by keeping others ignorant, sounds kind of like toxic mentality to me.

I also perform badly sometimes dps wise but I'm not insecure so it doesn't affect me much.

Also, gear and job designs are usually major factor in dps so it won't be that appaerant when you're lacking skill, unless it's extremely low.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

In what way do they ever show its a bragging right ingame? And what's wrong with bragging in the first place?

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There's nothing inherently wrong with bragging, it's just an obnoxious thing to do in a game like FFXIV which doesn't exactly cater to 'HARDCORE' content, the most difficult content in the game currently is Ultimate and the most noteworthy talent needed for it is co-ordination and memorization, that's about it. As far as I know there isn't any random mechanics in Ultimate or drastic changes on repeat fights such as rotation changes or boss line-up depending on which one, you have a role to play and you play that role to the T which means standing where you're supposed to stand, doing the DPS you're supposed to do, and making up for any failings or fumbles. It's great and it's an achievement to have but it's not really any more difficult or noteworthy than playing an instrument in a band, when everyone does their role you can do the content and you can basically farm it if you wanted to assuming your group remembered what to do, hence why people sell runs on the Party Finder.

Don't get me wrong, if you do it and you spend the time and dedication to complete it then you earn your accolades but you don't earn the right to look down on other players for not doing so, which is something I've seen in the game more than once and not even where it mattered.

Sure there are people that just don't care and will play their role with the skill and finesse of a brick, I think we've all seen a floor-tank at least once during our playtime or players that are at 80 with lvl 70 items that stand in every single AoE and use nothing but auto-attack, I've even seen a fabled 'ice mage' out and about before. There are bad players just as there are good players and I'd much rather get stuck with a bad player than a snotty up-tight braggart who thinks their farts don't stink because they managed to get carried through E8S by their FC, you know? And for some people a shiny parse is that E8S clear, it's that high number they can use to feel important and better than the unwashed masses and that's just always going to be the case, there will ALWAYS be people that look for whatever they can to try and pump up that self-worth.

Parsing is that for a lot of people, because at the end of the day pretty much anyone can do Savage/Ultimate if they have enough funds or know the right people, but a high parse is wholly their own work and there are people out there that will discriminate and will judge based on pretty numbers.

And the last thing FFXIV needs is to endorse a parse in any form that lets 'Alpha Mc Pro Gamer' 'dunk on the newbs' with a 'wicked sick fat parse'.

In my opinion, of course.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

There's nothing inherently wrong with bragging, it's just an obnoxious thing to do in a game like FFXIV which doesn't exactly cater to 'HARDCORE' content, the most difficult content in the game currently is Ultimate and the most noteworthy talent needed for it is co-ordination and memorization, that's about it. As far as I know there isn't any random mechanics in Ultimate or drastic changes on repeat fights such as rotation changes or boss line-up depending on which one, you have a role to play and you play that role to the T which means standing where you're supposed to stand, doing the DPS you're supposed to do, and making up for any failings or fumbles. It's great and it's an achievement to have but it's not really any more difficult or noteworthy than playing an instrument in a band, when everyone does their role you can do the content and you can basically farm it if you wanted to assuming your group remembered what to do, hence why people sell runs on the Party Finder.

Don't get me wrong, if you do it and you spend the time and dedication to complete it then you earn your accolades but you don't earn the right to look down on other players for not doing so, which is something I've seen in the game more than once and not even where it mattered.

Sure there are people that just don't care and will play their role with the skill and finesse of a brick, I think we've all seen a floor-tank at least once during our playtime or players that are at 80 with lvl 70 items that stand in every single AoE and use nothing but auto-attack, I've even seen a fabled 'ice mage' out and about before. There are bad players just as there are good players and I'd much rather get stuck with a bad player than a snotty up-tight braggart who thinks their farts don't stink because they managed to get carried through E8S by their FC, you know? And for some people a shiny parse is that E8S clear, it's that high number they can use to feel important and better than the unwashed masses and that's just always going to be the case, there will ALWAYS be people that look for whatever they can to try and pump up that self-worth.

Parsing is that for a lot of people, because at the end of the day pretty much anyone can do Savage/Ultimate if they have enough funds or know the right people, but a high parse is wholly their own work and there are people out there that will discriminate and will judge based on pretty numbers.

And the last thing FFXIV needs is to endorse a parse in any form that lets 'Alpha Mc Pro Gamer' 'dunk on the newbs' with a 'wicked sick fat parse'.

In my opinion, of course.

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I'm curious to know though, in what way do they show that they are bragging in game or are looking down on other players?

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

I agree with the parses thing, if you want to maximize your DPS and practice then a parse is great but there are way too many people that see it like a bragging right and the elitism isn't even hidden.

I hope SE never implements a built in parser.

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I wish they would. Troubling thing I've noticed about myself lately is my confidence in joining parties has been at an all time low for a long time now. I used to run raids, but here it takes ages to even drag myself into a pf ex group with friends. A big part of that? Having *absolutely no freaking clue* how I'm doing. I could be the worst freaking dancer in the planet and I literally wouldn't even know it. I follow the guides, and I practice, but my actual performance is a great big question mark for me and I absolutely freaking hate it. It feels awful. Worse than dealing with that odd stuck up dbag you get every now and again, which does still happen anyway (special shout-out to the absolute jerk who spent an entire run snarking at me for not using foe req often enough back in StB and then continued to be a snarky jerk when I started using it more often. Grats on being a jerk, random guy).

Anyway rants aside I don't really have a problem with not station as long as it stays cosmetic. My only real beef is with things that aren't dyeable, and aren't account wide, and the fact you can just full on lose cash shop furniture if you lose your house or trust the wrong person with it. :/

I don't understand the complaint of mogstation items in a sub based game. The current sub price hasn't changed at all from what I remember and production costs only go up. It's kind of silly to expect the cost of subscription to always remain the same and yet also expect innovation and expansion of current content.

On top of that, the Spriggan mount isn't really even seasonally inspired. As someone even mentioned it's about as seasonal as the Indigo Whale or any other mogstation mount.

Edit: Actually the only real complaint I have with it is that outfit items are bundle only instead of having an option to buy individual pieces.

Obnoxious bragging can be some good fun, just like shit posting can be often humorous. This coming from a person that is often on the receiving end of such behavior.

I have absolutely no problem with MOST of the Mog Station items. The ones I do have beef with are the food items (really that price for those?) and there is still genderlocked gear on there.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I have absolutely no problem with MOST of the Mog Station items. The ones I do have beef with are the food items (really that price for those?) and there is still genderlocked gear on there.

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I've noticed that the food items seem to have all shifted to selling a stack of five instead of one.

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Originally Posted by Gula

No mods, no parses

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No reason to play the game lol

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I'm curious to know though, in what way do they show that they are bragging in game or are looking down on other players?

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Well, for example I hear the term 'green' thrown around and I know for a fact that's a parsing thing, there was a Crystal Tower run I did not that long ago where someone pulled up the parse logs to put down someone on another Alliance: "Who are you? Should've known you're a green." And it was pretty bad a while back when parsing first was a thing, it's not as bad now since people kind of got the hint it's douchey and also bannable to bring up parses during a run explicitly, but it's definitely still there and still in use, usually in those PF Savage parties that are just pugs kicking the lowest player out over and over again in the vain hopes they'll get a great player to help get a clear.

Your mileage may vary of course, some servers and data centers are worse than others.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

I wish they would.

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In that case I'd recommend looking into whatever it is that parses use, there's probably a site or whatever, if you just use it for your own sake I don't think many people will be upset, save for the moderation/SE so do whatever it is you do in the privacy of your own home, ya feel?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

This isn't new they've been doing it for quite some time. I would have less of an issue with many of their items (emotes, outfits etc) if they were account wide but pricing on mounts is pretty high in my view even though many are in fact account wide.

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Once upon time, the Mogstation was not as expansive as it is right now. They had fantasias, dyes, one or two mounts, and a few chummy wearable accessories. It's not necessarily new, but they've been expanding the store more and more to the point it's starting to look like a Free-to-Play cash shop, which imo, is not appropriate for a game that has an expensive monthly sub. Not only is it an expensive monthly sub, but they've also given dire in-game incentives to keep subbed even with you can't play (e.g. your house).


Edit: exactly what this person said (quote below). The cash shop used to be minimal, and it should still be minimal due to the fact it's a subbed game and not a F2P:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

My biggest issue with it is there is no way to get it in game. At all. Even if it was a 1% chance off of something that would be better than this.

If I'm going to pay for a monthly sub, I expect the cash shop to be minimal.

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The cash shop is extremely minimal. It has been years, and this is all we have. Take a look at the cash shops of actual free to play games, or buy to play games. Then come back. What you really seem to want is no cash shop at all, and should just say it, rather than "minimal".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've noticed that the food items seem to have all shifted to selling a stack of five instead of one.

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Yeah I have seen that. Still a bit iffy on it, considering that you can easily have someone use them up if you use it in an FC.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The cash shop is extremely minimal. It has been years, and this is all we have. Take a look at the cash shops of actual free to play games, or buy to play games. Then come back. What you really seem to want is no cash shop at all, and should just say it, rather than "minimal".

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Comparing the cash shop from a F2P/B2P MMO with a subscription MMO doesn't really hold up too well. Sure, they're all MMOs, but they have a vastly different business models (or maybe at least used to? :P) Subscription games get a continual source of income from us plebs, a luxury those other models don't have.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Comparing the cash shop from a F2P/B2P MMO with a subscription MMO doesn't really hold up too well. Sure, they're all MMOs, but they have a vastly different business models (or maybe at least used to? :P) Subscription games get a continual source of income from us plebs, a luxury those other models don't have.

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ESO for example, is faux "buy to play". It has a subscription model, that anyone who seriously plays it uses, while using it's "buy to play" nature to justify their ridiculous cash shop, limited items, loot boxes. SWTOR for example, is "free to play", but you better have a subscription to actually play that game. Also has lootboxes. Actually, most free to play games have a subscription model included, they call it premium or some other trash. "Free to play" is cow manure to try and justify their business practices.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

ESO for example, is faux "buy to play". It has a subscription model, that anyone who seriously plays it uses, while using it's "buy to play" nature to justify their ridiculous cash shop, limited items, loot boxes. SWTOR for example, is "free to play", but you better have a subscription to actually play that game. Also has lootboxes. Actually, most free to play games have a subscription model included, they call it premium or some other trash. "Free to play" is cow manure to try and justify their business practices.

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ESO I've actually not played, so I know just about nothing on that game D: Will have to take your word on that.

As far as the B2P/F2P, I've played a couple of games with rather large shops (Archeage and BDO are probably the two biggest offenders), but oddly enough I feel less annoyed with buying things there as a whole compared to XIV. I know that those games also tweak certain in-game systems to try and push people towards their shops or their "premium accounts" like you mentioned. I actually totally forget about the 'premium' perks that many seem to have. Wasn't trying to be sneaky on purpose. X: My favorite guilty pleasure (Archeage) recently rolled out a B2P version of the game, so it's been a rather long time since I've dealt with that. But in the standard version, you did have the option to purchase the Patron (premium) status with in-game gold, so that was nice. Bit of a derailment with AA, sorry :X But yeah, while I don't agree with all the tactics in a F2P/B2P model, it does make more sense to me as they have no formal subscription in place.

With XIV, you have your sub, you have that companion app subscription if you want it, you can rent you retainers each month, and then you can buy all those other shinies that are cash-shop exclusives. I think a bit part of my annoyance comes from feeling like this game has so many short-comings in the game itself, can't implement so many things due to restrictions - but then the cash shop just keeps on pumping out new things on the regular that we should all be thrilled to be able to pay for.

e. I feel like I lost any point I may have started out trying to make. lol. I get the cash shop is here to stay, I just think SE's handlnig is a bit toooo much for this game. I'd kill to be able to have an option to buy things either from the shop or actually farm them up in-game. Make it annoying to get, sure! But the option would be nice to have.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

ESO I've actually not played, so I know just about nothing on that game D: Will have to take your word on that.

As far as the B2P/F2P, I've played a couple of games with rather large shops (Archeage and BDO are probably the two biggest offenders), but oddly enough I feel less annoyed with buying things there as a whole compared to XIV. I know that those games also tweak certain in-game systems to try and push people towards their shops or their "premium accounts" like you mentioned. I actually totally forget about the 'premium' perks that many seem to have. Wasn't trying to be sneaky on purpose. X: My favorite guilty pleasure (Archeage) recently rolled out a B2P version of the game, so it's been a rather long time since I've dealt with that. But in the standard version, you did have the option to purchase the Patron (premium) status with in-game gold, so that was nice. Bit of a derailment with AA, sorry :X But yeah, while I don't agree with all the tactics in a F2P/B2P model, it does make more sense to me as they have no formal subscription in place.

With XIV, you have your sub, you have that companion app subscription if you want it, you can rent you retainers each month, and then you can buy all those other shinies that are cash-shop exclusives. I think a bit part of my annoyance comes from feeling like this game has so many short-comings in the game itself, can't implement so many things due to restrictions - but then the cash shop just keeps on pumping out new things on the regular that we should all be thrilled to be able to pay for.

e. I feel like I lost any point I may have started out trying to make. lol. I get the cash shop is here to stay, I just think SE's handlnig is a bit toooo much for this game. I'd kill to be able to have an option to buy things either from the shop or actually farm them up in-game. Make it annoying to get, sure! But the option would be nice to have.

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Entitled generation screeching over nothing. There is barely anything in the cash shop lmfao.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

ESO for example, is faux "buy to play". It has a subscription model, that anyone who seriously plays it uses, while using it's "buy to play" nature to justify their ridiculous cash shop, limited items, loot boxes. SWTOR for example, is "free to play", but you better have a subscription to actually play that game. Also has lootboxes. Actually, most free to play games have a subscription model included, they call it premium or some other trash. "Free to play" is cow manure to try and justify their business practices.

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How is it trash? It's the same as any other sub model. You can play a stripped down version that requires extreme grinding or you can sub. Who tf cares if it's called premium? And many f2p games dont require a sub or "premium" to play hardcore. Blade and soul, Rift, city of heroes homecoming, ESO if you dont mind buying expansions and bank space, and numerous others. F2P models are meant for you to preview the game and decide if it's worth subbing. Not for freebs to sponge off the devs labor and the rest of us funding those games when we sub