"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

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09-20-2019, 02:55 AM
Nemmar

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

Yeah since you seem to not be capable of reading posts and for some reason ignore everything else said in this thread I'm just going to stop replying after this to save my own sanity

I have not ignored anything in this thread except posts with personal attacks or misrepresentations of what i say. Can you say the same? Did you see all the posts of people saying they would like it if there was xp/gil or some more features? I did. I read both and that are people who will enjoy the feature regardless and others who would like to see more in it to be able to enjoy it (and some both). Yet some have taken offense like the feature is being stolen from them and it's their precious and for them only and no one else can have it. It is completely irrational. The lack of empathy is incredible. I dunno why this happens, why people have to devolve into us vs them, but alas, it's the internet.
09-20-2019, 02:56 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

Really all they need to do is just rewrite the script for putting you into each chapter and just plop you in like that.

I want to suggest that this might not be a simple "Let me throw in a few lines of code and everything will be cool" solution.

From what is generally said about coding, if its older, coding changing parts of it becomes extremely difficult because of the things connected to it. So they build code on top of the old code rather than modifying it, overtime just creating a mountain of code on code on code. If this is the case (which it might very well be), they probably have to not only write code for the interface, but also create new code that overrides the old code without breaking the MSQ as it currently is, and then testing against this. From my PoV, this isnt a one day thing. Its probably been something theyve been investing into doing for a while.

To me, I dont think that this was a low effort ordeal, but something that consumed a bit of time and effort to implement. It just seems low effort because of how conceptually straight forward it is.

Edit: To clarify my point - MSQ is a linear set of quests that affect places you can go, NPC locations, what you can interact with, so on so forth. Much of the general game is built on a basic concept of "X has be done before Y, and Y before Z." Allowing you to go back to X would have the game start saying "Well if youre doing X, Y and Z cant be done yet." Make that more complicated with the fact you have to allow it to run in tandem with where your current MSQ progress is. Point is I feel like its not a simple "Unflag quest and let me repeat it". It has to be done without breaking the game as is. And that is the crux of the issue, particularly if you have to make sure it doenst mess up the mountain of code that exists between this and the original code.
09-20-2019, 05:09 AM
Niwashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

Biggest being it's LEVEL 80 content.

If so, that's a bigger issue than whether it does or does not have XP rewards. One of the big reasons (maybe not the biggest, but still a fairly major one) for people wanting to replay the story is returning players wanting to review where they left off and what was happening before they forge ahead into the next segment of their story. Besides just players who've been away from the game a while, it's a concern that can also apply to anyone who's spent a while on alt characters, alt jobs, crafting, or whatever other features. Going back and replaying the last few quests that you'd finished would be a far better way of getting back into the story when you're ready to continue it than anything we have available now.

Ideally, this should unlock as soon as you complete your first MSQ or class quest, and let you at any time thereafter review any of the MSQ/class/job quests that you've completed so far. I don't quite see any point in SE's decision to divide it into "chapters" (whatever that is), when it's already subdivided into quests. But having it unlock a chunk of several quests at once as soon as you finish that block could also work (even if not quite as well as being able to go all the way up to the last MSQ you'd completed).
09-20-2019, 05:15 AM
Niwashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemmar

Your only reason to deny it was: It either will be OP and everyone will spam it, or it will be like 10xp per quest and no one will care. If that's not exaggeration i dunno what is. There is a sensible middle road here wich you are purposely trying to ignore. Thing is, there is no good reason for the quests to not have at least XP rewards, even if they are somewhat nerfed.

But finding where that middle road is requires balancing each quest, checking the time it takes (both played normally and trying to spam click through it) comparing that to the available XP/minute you can get from various other sources at that level, and so on. It's a lot more work than just adding a UI window for selecting where you want to start your NG+ run and a back end field for tracking where you're at in it.
09-20-2019, 06:09 AM
Gula

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?
09-20-2019, 06:24 AM
Niwashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gula

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?

That argument makes sense when it comes to a lot of the specific item rewards, but for generic things like XP and gil, it's the same reason you get them again if you replay a dungeon you've already run, or do a FATE again which you've run before, craft an item you've made before, and so on. Most repeatable content has repeatable rewards.

In this case, the original rewards were designed and balanced around the idea that they'd be a one time thing, so they shouldn't be just carried over as-is into New Game plus as repeatable rewards. They'd need to be reconfigured for a repeatable reward balance.

(Personally, I'm of the opinion that that's likely to be more effort than it's worth, since those rewards aren't needed here, but opinions can vary on that.)
09-20-2019, 06:39 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niwashi

I don't quite see any point in SE's decision to divide it into "chapters" (whatever that is), when it's already subdivided into quests.

It's likely divided into chapters for ease and less clutter. There something like...350ish quests atleast in the MSQ I think. And people generally dont remember specific quest names, they remember the broader events. So organizing by chapter makes sense cause you can sum up a quest chain by chapter and people will pick up on that pretty readily rather than reading each quest summary.
09-20-2019, 06:40 AM
Jojoya

I can understand not giving the original gear and gil rewards but feel that XP should still be rewarded (assuming the player isn't using a level capped job) equal to what would have been received while doing it for the first time.

I think we still need a little more information about how NG+ works with relation to our job level. At one point level scaling was mentioned (as opposed to level sync) so players would be able to use their full toolkit but I can't recall any clarification since.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gula

Why would you get rewards... that you already got?

Why do people get rewards for going into a dungeon they've already done, or a FATE they've already completed?

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.
09-20-2019, 06:44 AM
stanrir

I'm sure some people will love it, and I am happy for them... Buuuuuut I think I will give it a hard pass XD I did the story once and that is plenty for me
09-20-2019, 06:47 AM
Enla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melichoir

It's likely divided into chapters for ease and less clutter. There something like...350ish quests atleast in the MSQ I think. And people generally dont remember specific quest names, they remember the broader events. So organizing by chapter makes sense cause you can sum up a quest chain by chapter and people will pick up on that pretty readily rather than reading each quest summary.

Yeah while I'm not too thrilled about it not being on an individual basis, it does make sense from a clutter standpoint. Plus it's really only ARR where the 'chapters' are extremely long and annoying to complete, and they solved the issue of being stuck in MSQ hell with the initial expac story drops by dividing those into chapters as well, and we won't have access to NG+ ARR quests until they revamp them sometime later this year or next. It's not the best implementation but I'll take it.

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...373&height=677
09-20-2019, 06:56 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I can understand not giving the original gear and gil rewards but feel that XP should still be rewarded (assuming the player isn't using a level capped job) equal to what would have been received while doing it for the first time.

I think we still need a little more information about how NG+ works with relation to our job level. At one point level scaling was mentioned (as opposed to level sync) so players would be able to use their full toolkit but I can't recall any clarification since.

If it doesnt have the exp thing, it shouldnt be a big deal. It was never a promised feature. Dont even think they mentioned that they would think about it. If it gets exp, it doesnt make a lick of difference to people who wanted it for the replay value. The general trend Im seeing is the issue with it is coming from people expecting something that was never even offered and it's based on a personal assumption they get from other games. And you know what, its fine to be like "Hey I wished it had exp as part of it." Most people wouldnt oppose that concept. It becomes a problem when not having exp is being framed as "Well this whole thing is a waste and never shouldve been implemented." This second statement is frankly saying "Unless it has personal utility for me, I dont wnat it in game no matter what. Everyone else be damned."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojoya

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.

Umm they did. They were compensated by quite literally being put instantly at a level/part of the story. Therye literally paying cash to have all that experience up front, so they dont have to expend the time like other players. Theyre not being denied anything in this regards. They even get a nifty synopsis. If those players want to go back and experience it after willingly saying "Nah, rather skip all that," thats up to the player. But they shouldnt be rewarded exp by this argument as theyve already received all of it.
09-20-2019, 07:15 AM
Voltyblast

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

This isn't really big worthwhile content though. Really all they need to do is just rewrite the script for putting you into each chapter and just plop you in like that. The fact they're retooling the ARR MSQ and planning it work along with NG+ is pretty big as that's going to affect new players coming in and stream lining the experience.

You know there's already a MSQ roulette right? Why not just do it with that? Why not let it allow to replay those solo fights and even do the cutscene before and after? Why all this fuss for a ng+ when they could just rework what already exists and limit the cost?
I'm not really bothered about a ng+, im just annoyed that resources being used for a feature that will be very niche.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

As I stated before you don't really need to do that though. Current options through rous and dungeons are eons better then the experience the MSQ would give you at that level if it offered them. I know people want to die on this hill it should have bonuses but I don't get a bonus for playing a visual novel again completely past seeing the minor options and leisure of it all, which NG+ is being advertised as just reliving the story. I'm using a visual novel as a main point as well since you keep bringing up the story, and with NG+'s main feature being the story it seems like a good comparison.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here: no i don't have to do it, but having the option to do it for rewards wouldn't be painful and it would make everyone happy: you get to replay your story, I get extra exp (maybe a challenge for revisiting X amount of story too, could be done!)
As it is ng+ is just for you and you only and nobody else, which is also FINE if it didn't draw resources from improving content that ACTUALLY needs to be taken care of, so "pray forgive me" for asking that a peasant like me could do it for other reasons.
And again, MSQ already exists and could be reworked for the same reason, with practically zero effort, and even though VN have absolutely no sense in this topic as they're not the same genre - I did bring up SWTOR so why did you disregard it? - in VN you replay the story for unlocking new paths and unlocking new endings, which is their main reason for having a "NG+", same for many rpgs nowadays (like how I replayed trails of cold steel for finishing the game with each classmate)
How many endings and paths does FFXIV allow you to go through? Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

I wouldn't really compare a mode (or limited job) with brand new assets/ huge amounts of scripting to a mode that is just letting you replay the story again with minor scripting.

Fair enough, although BLU is a more accessible and approachable feature that a new player can have from the start as they can played from level one - and I do personally feel about it because I loved BLU when I started it but it's so mind-numbingly bad in conception that I don't even care about the new class update since it will die in a week.
On the other hand you got a story that I'm fairly certain a good bunch of people will skip in order to play the game...although I can't say really because there's no numbers of people who actually follow the story and who don't. I just finished ARR for the first time in 6 years and I don't have any problem believing that many would rather skip it up until that.

TL;DR, What I'm trying to say is, BLU is a more accessible feature than 6 trillion quests.

And about mahjong, does anyone really play it? I ask because I know it's a well known and very played game...in asia and japan, which makes me wonder why not chess? Is chess not famous enough worldwide? Or they just don't care again? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

The reason I use Dark Souls is because Dark Souls is a JRPG, just like XIV is an MMOJRPG. It doesn't matter if the game is online or not the fact is both games have optional modes you're not being forced into doing, yet people want to make a big stink over it because of ridiculous reasons and claim that they are completely worthless since they don't suit them.

Then why not bring up SWTOR just like I mentioned? They're the perfect games for the comparison as both are heavily story-driven, both are MMORPGs, both have the same combat style and everything. Only thing that SWTOR doesn't have is a ng+, which is actually a pity because the game has different choices you can make which change certain quest paths and things later. Nothing too complex but it's nice to be able to play a good sith or a bad jedi and being able to choose a different path from the usual "kill kill kill!"
How many paths and choices does FFXIV have? Yep, you guessed it right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noitems

For the record I'm okay with calling SE out on their BS for things that make sense (Housing, Eureka future proofing, botting), this whole argument doesn't do that though. You're putting your own words in their mouths and then being angry they aren't parroting them back to you. It's just a simple mode to let people re-enjoy the story either solo or with friends, it doesn't deserve the absolute hate you're giving it.

I don't hate what I don't care, and frankly I don't care about this feature existing - even though, you know, msq roulette exists ALREADY?!. I only want it to be more approachable and accessible to everyone, and giving a few rewards isn't really a bad deal as it gives a reason for non-story followers to do them for a little bit of rewards - and redoing some of those solo fights, which aren't all bad - and those story followers to, well, follow the story again.

If this means I'm hating then i dunno, just give me a better BLU and a possible better Eureka that doesn't make me throw up and I'm cool: you keep your stuff, I get improved stuff.
But if it doesn't, then someone, somewhere, is going to be blamed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Omg! its not actual content because "It doesnt fit my narrow perception of what content is."

Got it, as long as you get your stuff, you don't care if the rest of the content is broken, delayed or unfinished. Fair enough I guess.
09-20-2019, 07:30 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Got it, as long as you get your stuff, you don't care if the rest of the content is broken and delayed. Fair enough I guess.

They offered us the ability to replay the MSQ. Were getting that. As for the 'rest of the content', like what? Or even better, should all content be put on hold till something is perfect? So we shouldnt have MSQ, dungeons, 24 mans, fates, or anything until we fix, lets say, Ninja. Gotta put the breaks on it all until ninja is fixed! God, could you imagine this design philosophy if what needed to be fixed was a GS event? Or a Fate? "Sorry Guys, no new dungeons cause a few fates are not working as intended. We've devoted all our resources to fixing this issue."

No, I never said as long as I get mine, screw everyone else. In fact, apparently the inverse of this point is what Im seeing people argue if they are against NG+ should it not have exp. "If I dont get exp, then screw everyone who wants this feature. It shouldnt be implemented". Then it's justifed with the good ol 'it takes away resources from "content"' point. Which then requires us to define what content is, and that is almost always defined as "Content is whatever I enjoy and/or mainstream." Followed up by the assumption that "If this other feature wasnt in the game, the real content would be so much better!" because its always guaranteed that the team would shift their focus to what is deemed content by people making the resources point, or that current content can be easily improved if devs just werent wasting time on all this silly 'non-content' stuff.

Im being snarky, but I am irked by the "Real Content" argument that gets brought up. You want to know what real content is IMO? If you can play it in game, its content. You may not enjoy it, or use a feature, but its content, and people will find worth in it, even if others do not.
09-20-2019, 08:10 AM
Gula

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why do people get rewards for going into a dungeon they've already done, or a FATE they've already completed?

If the one of the main purposes of NG+ is to let people who used skip potions experience the content, then those players never got the rewards in the first place. They didn't already get those rewards.

You re-run dungeons for exp. Duh. And it's usually on level. You don't queue for Sastasha when you're trying to get from 79 to 80. NG+ isn't about how much gil or exp you got after the showdown with Raubahn. It's the experience for story. And if they jump potioned, then yes they already got the rewards. 300k gil right off the bat is pretty solid. You get all the glams and extra items except choice rewards like potions you'll never use, materia that's outdated and if you want to NG+ after buying a story skip you should have just played the story in the first place since levels aren't included!
09-20-2019, 11:27 AM
Kytrin

I am honestly astonished by how heated this seems to be getting. There's nothing wrong with people asking for exp rewards from NG+. It's it required? No. Is it something we should assume we'll get? No. Should the rewards be identical to what they were before? No probably not. Is NG+ awesome all on its own? Absolutely!

But I don't see how it's such a bad thing to wish for an alternative for leveling outside of roulettes and eternal grinding? I personally love leveling by story far more than by most other ways. I don't even mind the sheer number of quests because I'm enjoying myself. I would cheerfully drag literally every other job I haven't been bothered to level up to 80 if I got to enjoy the story with each one lol! I mean, I'll enjoy the feature regardless, but I can't fault anyone for asking for some form of reward other than getting to see the story again.
09-20-2019, 11:48 AM
MikuMitsuko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kytrin

I am honestly astonished by how heated this seems to be getting. There's nothing wrong with people asking for exp rewards from NG+. It's it required? No. Is it something we should assume we'll get? No. Should the rewards be identical to what they were before? No probably not. Is NG+ awesome all on its own? Absolutely!

But I don't see how it's such a bad thing to wish for an alternative for leveling outside of roulettes and eternal grinding? I personally love leveling by story far more than by most other ways. I don't even mind the sheer number of quests because I'm enjoying myself. I would cheerfully drag literally every other job I haven't been bothered to level up to 80 if I got to enjoy the story with each one lol! I mean, I'll enjoy the feature regardless, but I can't fault anyone for asking for some form of reward other than getting to see the story again.

It's not that people are asking for rewards in so much as they're acting like the content is worthless garbage taking resources away from 'muh real content' just because it doesn't dangle carrots in front of you. The purpose of NG+ is not for leveling. It's solely to see the story again. This is what SE has said, this is what it will be. The fact that some people can't wrap their heads around that is the truly astonishing thing.

I'm glad SE isn't going to let people level all of their jobs to 80 by spamming the Skip Cutscene button.
09-20-2019, 01:54 PM
Ragnar_Gerwulfsson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kytrin

I am honestly astonished by how heated this seems to be getting. There's nothing wrong with people asking for exp rewards from NG+. It's it required? No. Is it something we should assume we'll get? No. Should the rewards be identical to what they were before? No probably not. Is NG+ awesome all on its own? Absolutely!

But I don't see how it's such a bad thing to wish for an alternative for leveling outside of roulettes and eternal grinding? I personally love leveling by story far more than by most other ways. I don't even mind the sheer number of quests because I'm enjoying myself. I would cheerfully drag literally every other job I haven't been bothered to level up to 80 if I got to enjoy the story with each one lol! I mean, I'll enjoy the feature regardless, but I can't fault anyone for asking for some form of reward other than getting to see the story again.

Exactly this.
09-20-2019, 01:59 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Got it, as long as you get your stuff, you don't care if the rest of the content is broken, delayed or unfinished. Fair enough I guess.

Except, this content isn't "broken, delayed or unfinished". The developers never once said or implied that New Game+ was going to offer players experience or be an alternative/additional option for leveling alt jobs. They have always advertised it as a way for players who want to redo the story to redo the story, which has been requested numerous times - and never with the added "oh, by the way, let us level alt jobs with this feature" comment people are suddenly making. That was never a point brought up in discussions that were asking for the ability to redo the story.

The developers have delivered the requested feature. Nothing more, nothing less. People that expected to be getting experience out of this feature - despite no indication that this would be the case - are the only ones who have set themselves up for disappointment right now. Or ones who are citing it as being similar to other game's NG+ options. Quite frankly, a lot of disappointment could have been avoided without making assumptions.

The content isn't delayed. They said it was coming out in Patch 5.1 during the Pre-ShB PLL, and it's being released in Patch 5.1.

The only one you can semi-argue is "unfinished", if only because it won't initially include ARR and job quests. However, the former is being redone and condensed, and is set to "re-release" in Patch 5.3 in this new, condensed fashion. So I can understand why they wouldn't include ARR in the initial release only to have to re-add the new version later. I wish they would include the job quests, but perhaps since a large chunk are stuck in ARR content, they're wanting to release them after ARR is condensed to avoid any potential mishaps with interactive coding for the level 1~50 class/job quests. Sucks, because I want the DRK quests available now, but I can try to be patient and wait a bit longer. All that said, the "unfinished" here is being used in reference to the "No rewards, no experience" - not the fact that it doesn't currently include ARR and job quests. So, no. The content isn't "unfinished" with regards to this argument because it never promised rewards or experience in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kytrin

I am honestly astonished by how heated this seems to be getting. There's nothing wrong with people asking for exp rewards from NG+. It's it required? No. Is it something we should assume we'll get? No. Should the rewards be identical to what they were before? No probably not. Is NG+ awesome all on its own? Absolutely!

But I don't see how it's such a bad thing to wish for an alternative for leveling outside of roulettes and eternal grinding? I personally love leveling by story far more than by most other ways. I don't even mind the sheer number of quests because I'm enjoying myself. I would cheerfully drag literally every other job I haven't been bothered to level up to 80 if I got to enjoy the story with each one lol! I mean, I'll enjoy the feature regardless, but I can't fault anyone for asking for some form of reward other than getting to see the story again.

This issue is that the side of the argument that is pro-rewards/pro-EXP are discounting the feature as "useless", a "waste of resources", and saying that it shouldn't be added at all because it doesn't meet their specific expectations.
09-20-2019, 03:33 PM
dragonkyn20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikuMitsuko

It's not that people are asking for rewards in so much as they're acting like the content is worthless garbage taking resources away from 'muh real content' just because it doesn't dangle carrots in front of you. The purpose of NG+ is not for leveling. It's solely to see the story again. This is what SE has said, this is what it will be. The fact that some people can't wrap their heads around that is the truly astonishing thing.

I'm glad SE isn't going to let people level all of their jobs to 80 by spamming the Skip Cutscene button.

This. People can't seem to see this as the primary reason. None of us care if NG+ quests come with EXP or not, but to outright assume the content will be useless at launch is just asinine. A LOT of us have been asking for a way to replay some of the solo instances since as early as Heavensward. And to people that claim "Durr you can just go the Inn and use the Unending Journey if you want to watch cutscenes", solo instances cannot be played from the Unending Journey and not every cutscene is viewable.
09-20-2019, 04:25 PM
TaleraRistain

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This issue is that the side of the argument that is pro-rewards/pro-EXP are discounting the feature as "useless", a "waste of resources", and saying that it shouldn't be added at all because it doesn't meet their specific expectations.

Not everyone who is pro-rewards. There are plenty of pro-rewards folks on this thread who said it would be nice but aren't calling it a waste of resources. You're generalizing based on a vocal few and attempting to use that to discount the viewpoint.
09-20-2019, 04:36 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Not everyone who is pro-rewards. There are plenty of pro-rewards folks on this thread who said it would be nice but aren't calling it a waste of resources. You're generalizing based on a vocal few and attempting to use that to discount the viewpoint.

The ones in this thread have made no small attempts at attempting to argue against this feature because it’s not catered to exactly how they want it to be, starting literally from Page 1. Sure, there are a few who don’t care either way. But they are not the ones that are the most vocal or the ones getting the most heated.

Personally, I’d label the ones you’re specifically describing as the more “indifferent crowd”. They may want rewards, but they also don’t particularly care if there isn’t any. And they haven’t been the ones contributing to the near 350-post argument.
09-20-2019, 04:59 PM
Sesera

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Not everyone who is pro-rewards. There are plenty of pro-rewards folks on this thread who said it would be nice but aren't calling it a waste of resources. You're generalizing based on a vocal few and attempting to use that to discount the viewpoint.

You can be sure those guys won't have the same attitude if it were about something they'd like to have.
09-20-2019, 05:12 PM
Sesera

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Personally, I’d label the ones you’re specifically describing as the more “indifferent crowd”. They may want rewards, but they also don’t particularly care if there isn’t any. And they haven’t been the ones contributing to the near 350-post argument.

Yeah of course if there is a bunch of baddies asking badly then everyone has to be punished and when they ask nicely and be like well it would be nice but we won't make a fuse if it doesn't happen now there is no need to add the feature because they don't really care.

You have your ng like you wanted so now how about you go somewhere else and let people provide a nice a respectful feedback?
09-20-2019, 05:29 PM
DevilsDontFly

I don't think it's a useless addition, and I'll be playing it myself. I do however think it's gonna be "battlecraft leves 2.0". As in: Most people will do it once and then forget it exists, like the majority of the gold saucer stuff. Obviously not everybody, but it'll probably be one of those things that people will eventually erase from their memories but go "Oh, right! That is a thing, huh?" when it's mentioned. Just my guess/opinion though.
09-20-2019, 06:46 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

You have your ng like you wanted so now how about you go somewhere else and let people provide a nice a respectful feedback?

Pardon, but this thread has been far from respectful. And also pardon, but I’m allowed to comment on whatever in it I see fit. Whenever I see fit. With all due respect, if you want to leave respectful feedback, how about you also not tell others to go away in the same breath?
09-20-2019, 07:00 PM
Enla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

You have your ng like you wanted so now how about you go somewhere else and let people provide a nice a respectful feedback?

Are we reading the same thread?
09-20-2019, 07:01 PM
ForteNightshade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

Yeah of course if there is a bunch of baddies asking badly then everyone has to be punished and when they ask nicely and be like well it would be nice but we won't make a fuse if it doesn't happen now there is no need to add the feature because they don't really care.

You have your ng like you wanted so now how about you go somewhere else and let people provide a nice a respectful feedback?

Bit ironic you claim to be providing respectful feedback yet not only dismiss someone else's opposing opinion but essentially tell them to piss off. Regardless, this whole thread devolved because some people can't seem to offer their opinion without slamming others—particularly those who don't think NG+ needs EXP.

Perhaps practice what you preach, hmm?
09-20-2019, 07:15 PM
Sesera

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Bit ironic you claim to be providing respectful feedback yet not only dismiss someone else's opposing opinion but essentially tell them to piss off. Regardless, this whole thread devolved because some people can't seem to offer their opinion without slamming others—particularly those who don't think NG+ needs EXP.

Perhaps practice what you preach, hmm?

Yes i'm dismissing someone "opinion" (lol) just like they are dismissing people feedback because of one or two people.
We have 35 pages of bullshit thanks to you and your endless grudge to Nemmar.
09-20-2019, 07:20 PM
HyoMinPark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

Yes i'm dismissing someone "opinion" (lol) just like they are dismissing people feedback because of one or two people.
We have 35 pages of bullshit thanks to you and your endless grudge to Nemmar.

It’s been far more than just 1 or 2 individuals that have blown this thread up. Don’t act like it hasn’t been. You have no right to tell other people they can’t post just because you don’t agree with their comments.

If you’re going to leave respectful feedback, by all means: leave it. Respectfully. But leave it at that. Don’t start telling others to go away or dismissing them simply for having a different opinion than you. That doesn’t make you any better.
09-20-2019, 07:25 PM
ForteNightshade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

Yes i'm dismissing someone "opinion" (lol) just like they are dismissing people feedback because of one or two people.
We have 35 pages of bullshit thanks to you and your endless grudge to Nemmar.

I have maybe four replies to Nemmar. Last I checked four did not equate to 350. I'll also point out those quotations yet again implies your opinion matter more than anyone else's. People are allowed to express reasons why they don't think NG+ needs EXP. It is a discussion forum. Shocking, I know.
09-20-2019, 08:22 PM
MsQi

I think it should reward the same Exp it did the first time and nothing else.
09-20-2019, 08:37 PM
Paladinleeds

So, there's a thing with offering XP at all. Even inefficient XP. To offer any kind of XP would have people using it instead of queueing for duties etc. This therefore reduces the pool of people in the queue for duties (potentially dragging out the queue further). Now, while there is the "Gotcha" of daily Duty Roulettes and POTD/HoH/whatever Shadowbringers equivalent will be, I think for SE, it's probably easier to not slap rewards on it in the first place. With Mentor Roulette for example, it's basically a glorified duty filler (and I'm not going to say anything more on that else I unleash another firestorm). They've probably considered this in a similar vein.

And to be honest, I think it's a good idea. Either the XP is going to be worthless so as not to be worth it for most people (with perhaps a small percentage more people partaking in it compared to zero XP entirely), or it'll be vastly overpowered that it'll destroy DR queues. I'm not sure a suitable middle ground can be found. No matter what you do, someone's going to be upset about it. While SE have indeed taken the hard-headed "Zero rewards period" approach, I can sympathise with them. You'll never be able to please all people all of the time (I've been a tech support agent for a few pieces of software, and we've turned down feature requests because it's not going to draw a big enough payout of usage for the work involved. Something small like adding an option for a feature that takes all of like 5 lines of code, doesn't need a huge payoff, but something that involves changing core components is a deep task that needs a much bigger payout. With regards to NG+, even considering the spaghetti code, I don't think it needs as huge a payout as say new jobs require. And payout doesn't necessarily just mean people using it. It could be things like good PR also.).

As other people have also alluded to, sometimes you have to do stuff for the niche crowd. Let's take a look at Ultimate for example. Probably took about as much work as NG+ did (considering the spaghetti code). Will likely have about a par of usage to NG+. Some things are meant to appeal to niche crowds. Sometimes it's worth it to put a more niche feature in, because if you provide that niche feature for them, you can also potentially hook them into other content. You can use it as a weapon for marketing basically. So while I can definitely sympathise with the people wanting XP in it, given the situation we have in place, I can also understand SE's viewpoint.
09-20-2019, 09:16 PM
Rhus

Will It reset all the side quests and role quests? if it does I can see why they don't reward xp again as you could just keep reloading and spamming certain side quests and role quests. or is it just selecting a specific quest line from a menu (like the unending journey menu) and running that quest and that quest alone. When you turn the quest in you are taken back to the menu.

Will it reset the environment too? Like if I redo the first quest of Shb will Lakeland still be in light? Would be off if it didn't and it reflects my main scenario progression. They're talking about light and because I've finished the game its dark out lol
09-20-2019, 09:23 PM
MsQi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhus

Will It reset all the side quests and role quests? if it does I can see why they don't reward xp again as you could just keep reloading and spamming certain side quests and role quests. or is it just selecting a specific quest line from a menu (like the unending journey menu) and running that quest and that quest alone. When you turn the quest in you are taken back to the menu.

Will it reset the environment too? Like if I redo the first quest of Shb will Lakeland still be in light? Would be off if it didn't and it reflects my main scenario progression. They're talking about light and because I've finished the game its dark out lol

I think it's just MSQ? Is Shadowbringers MSQ even gonna be part of it at first?
09-20-2019, 09:25 PM
SerLuke

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

I think it's just MSQ? Is Shadowbringers MSQ even gonna be part of it at first?

Yes they announced it will be, everything but ARR which is later after the revamp I’m assuming
09-21-2019, 01:18 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sesera

Yes i'm dismissing someone "opinion" (lol) just like they are dismissing people feedback because of one or two people.
We have 35 pages of bullshit thanks to you and your endless grudge to Nemmar.

I can say that Ive given flak to Nemmar, simply because his responses come across to me as the kind of guy who goes out in the wild to find and kick a hornets nest, does it, and then complains that Hornets are jerks. I mean hornets are, but if you go out of your way to start stuff, then thats on you.

Check this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemmar

I think it's totally unacceptable.

People here saying that many wanted the feature, but i'm sure many wanted the feature with quest rewards. The way it is being implemented will in fact interest few people and it's resulting to be a huge waste of resources.

What people wanted was to level alt jobs going through the story again. This feature will go utterly unused by most players if it goes live like that. At least the XP rewards NEEDS to be in place.

The MSQ takes a lot of time to complete and remember that there are level requirements. No one will be leveling faster than in PotD or HoH or even dungeons. It is ridiculous to think so.

Thats his first comment in this thread on page one. Now expressing dissatisfaction is fine. Dont think anyone is saying you cant be bummed about the feature not offering something you hoped for. But he goes further than that with things like "its a waste of resources", "Go utterly unused", speaking like no one wanted it, etc. Yeah, this is where some of the issue comes in (if not the crux). It's the age old argument that "if content doesnt fit my expecations, no one should have it". And this is particularly egregious because the whole problem he (and some others) have is entirely predicated on something they assumed and was never promised by the devs or even possibly mentioned.

People wanted a way to play the MSQ again. Devs are delivering on that. Now we have someone come in and say "Its trash, waste of time and resources, no one will ever use this" because they assumed itd be a way to level alt jobs and that appears not to be the case. It's disappointment of their own making, and theyre calling it a waste now and behaving like it shouldnt be a thing if it isnt offering exp.

Yeah, maybe some of us (myself particularly) could be less snarky, but dont behave like Nemmar is just some innocent guy getting dumped on by all us mean people for no reason what-so-ever.
09-21-2019, 01:25 AM
Liam_Harper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

So, there's a thing with offering XP at all. Even inefficient XP. To offer any kind of XP would have people using it instead of queueing for duties etc. This therefore reduces the pool of people in the queue for duties (potentially dragging out the queue further). Now, while there is the "Gotcha" of daily Duty Roulettes and POTD/HoH/whatever Shadowbringers equivalent will be, I think for SE, it's probably easier to not slap rewards on it in the first place. With Mentor Roulette for example, it's basically a glorified duty filler (and I'm not going to say anything more on that else I unleash another firestorm). They've probably considered this in a similar vein.

The only thing I disgree with there is the idea that other content must not be rewarding because we need to shove people into Duty Finder to fill queues. We can't remove rewards from content purely to shove people into other content. This is already why trusts are so slow and tedious.

Roulettes already offer tomes and much better exp than quests can ever give. If someone chose quests over Duty Finder, it's because they found it more fun. If you force people out of activities they find fun they're more likely to stop playing than anything.
Not saying this applies to New Game+ necessarily, but that if it did apply (that it gave exp, thus people chose to do it over Roulettes to level alts), that the idea of removing the rewards because people enjoyed it too much is flawed.
09-21-2019, 01:32 AM
Tsalmaveth

It's like some people never properly took debate classes in HS or college... or learned how to properly and politely leave feedback in a non-combative and supportive manner.

Example: This feature exists but I feel that it could be improved by providing X. (This is good feedback.)

Example: This feature doesn't give me what I want. It sucks, you all are lazy and no one is going to use it. Give us X or it's obvious that you don't actually care about the player's wants or needs. (This feedback is combative, alienates the players who were actually excited about the upcoming feature and is going to make them combative in turn. It also lashes out at the devs, something no one here has any business in doing along with saying 'no one will use it' which is obviously false but gives the person saying it a way to boost their claim in their eyes.)

Giving calm rational feedback invites calm rational responses either supportive or, even if opposed, at least not in a hostile manner so. Most of the 'it doesn't NEED to give exp' responses have offered rational reasons as to WHY we feel it doesn't/shouldn't do so. Rational debates in-and-of-themselves are not bad things, they do provide feedback for the devs as much as anything else. As long as people are POLITE about it. 'It will be exploited.' 'People will simply skip the CS and spam them.' 'It will cut down even harder on the DF.' are all very valid reasons for it to NOT offer exp. Because we know after the debacle of MSQ Roulette that people will do exactly that.
09-21-2019, 01:50 AM
Niwashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhus

Will It reset all the side quests and role quests?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsQi

I think it's just MSQ? Is Shadowbringers MSQ even gonna be part of it at first?

It's going to start off with just the expansion chapters of the MSQ. The ARR portion of the MSQ will be added to it in its new version after that part of the story is rewritten. And at some point (not sure if it will be at the same time as ARR or not) the class/job/role quests will be added.

There's been no confirmation of any other side content, but there's been player requests for some of the ongoing side stories (like Manderville), so that may or may not be a possibility at some point down the road, though one-off sidequests almost certainly won't.
09-21-2019, 02:14 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niwashi

It's going to start off with just the expansion chapters of the MSQ. The ARR portion of the MSQ will be added to it in its new version after that part of the story is rewritten. And at some point (not sure if it will be at the same time as ARR or not) the class/job/role quests will be added.

There's been no confirmation of any other side content, but there's been player requests for some of the ongoing side stories (like Manderville), so that may or may not be a possibility at some point down the road, though one-off sidequests almost certainly won't.

This is probably my biggest disappoint though. I want to replay the DRK 30-50 story arc. Le sigh, gotta wait on that. I also may hold off on MSQ simply because I want to play it in order. Still, overall happy that were getting the feature.

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