Sorry Yoshi, but if you award the best weapon in the game by winning the lottery...

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Where do you draw the line? Is it at "fun"? I'd argue those griefers are having fun doing what they do, at the expense of others. It's pretty terrible to defend the actions of **** people, just because you don't agree with something the devs do to the game.

You can't logically blame the devs for the bad actions of others in this type of context. They created content, regardless if the individual liked it or not, and people are supposed to do it as intended (which doesn't involve messing with other peoples objectives). That'd be like blaming the victim(s) of a crime IRL for having existed at all, or to a lesser extent, blaming anyone frustrated by the griefers actions for taking part in something said griefer has problems with. No one is that high and mighty.

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I said partial blame, and earlier in this same thread condemned the behavior. I am justifying nothing, mearly saying the devs were indeed partially responsible for it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

People kick, harass and wipe for fun. If they don't like the content, they can simply not do it.
No opinion could justify acting like dicks to the rest of the community.

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The irony is that people q in diadem and do nothing anyway. What's your stance there?

Basically, Yoshi-P thought the i280s would be fun, and not taken seriously. They were thrown into the new Diadem as additional incentive for people that already had an anima and/or relic. Problem is, he completely underestimated what BiS meant to some players. For some people, having BiS from completion until SB was one of, or even the only, reason some people put up with the horrific grind. And those people had that nullified after just nine days.

Given the train wreck the new Diadem's become, I was curious what his response would be. What we got was that people should just settle down, basically saying that caring about BiS was stupid and it was stupid to make an anima for that reason. Well, *I* made one for that reason, so his response was, to me, a slap in the face. I've since unsubbed.

Yoshi-P needs to realize and respect *all* the reasons players drop countless hours on his content. Maybe this debacle will be a wake-up call.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

I said partial blame, and earlier in this same thread condemned the behavior. I am justifying nothing, mearly saying the devs were indeed partially responsible for it.

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I get what you're trying to say, but I'm also pointing out that it's an irrelevant and illogical point to make. You're saying that it's because they made it, they hold some degree of blame for it and essentially should be held accountable for that degree of blame. Akin to how the person who first created a working gun, should be held accountable for every single death in human history with guns. Or how the people that create plastic bags should be held accountable for any suffocation that occurs with babies. I'm just pointing out how illogical it is to truly view it that way though.

If you're willing to stretch the blame to that degree, then it should also be acceptable to blame literally every single one of us for the same situation (that includes you and me). We bring these types of situations to light for anyone to read, thus spreading the word that if some d-bags can get away with it, they could too. We bring to light that people react favorably (i.e. get frustrated) to the trolls goal.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Reaching to an unnecessary degree to find blame in others, for the actions of specific individuals, is pointless and simply encourages such behavior to continue. "I'm not the only one to blame here. It's SE's fault too for why I grief people. They should never have put those weapons in Diadem, even Xerek agrees that I'm not the only one to blame for my ruining other peoples fun." Condemn it as you have, but that mentality of blaming devs for bad actions of other players (when the content doesn't involve doing such bad actions) is counter to your distaste for the action.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

*snip for character limit*

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If someone were reckless enough to fly a helicopter over a crowd and dump bags full of $100 bills, letting it rain over people, it would be a riot. People would do horrible things to one another to get that money. And you better believe the people that dumped the money would be held at least partially responsible. Same principle here. SE's inclusion of RNG uber-weapons has had a terrible and very easily predictable outcome. You add weapons better then anything else in the game, rendering the raid and anima weapons people busted their asses on second-best, then act shocked when people do horrible things to one another about them?

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Chara Limit

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Except that they did not suddenly dished i280 for free to a selected group for absolutely no effort. Current griefing is more of players tearing up ppl's ticket to a lottery for a monetary prize. The morality of whatever actions the griefers took is based on their decision that no one should win the lottery and they themselves are responsible for it, not the developers.

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Originally Posted by RenAshdoll

Except that they did not suddenly dished i280 for free to a selected group for absolutely no effort. Current griefing is more of players tearing up ppl's ticket to a lottery for a monetary prize. The morality of whatever actions the griefers took is based on their decision that no one should win the lottery and they themselves are responsible for it, not the developers.

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Except the devs made a concious decision to invalidate the raid and anima weapons, while simultaniously putting the new BiS weapons behind a 100% RNG wall and you wonder why some people are lashing out? I don't condone it at all, but I understand it, and SE is most definately partially at fault.

Why do people care what other people get in a game

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Originally Posted by Xerek

I was curious what his response would be. What we got was that people should just settle down, basically saying that caring about BiS was stupid and it was stupid to make an anima for that reason.

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What I have learned is that the dev team knows that rewards are meaningless, and instead of fixing it, they turn a blind eye and use them as short term cash ins for content, which is a horrible way to design content in a sub MMO.

I haven't unsubbed but I have stopped listening to Yoshi P's words of wisdom. Theres a discussion going around about Yoshi P wanting to remove cleric stance, and my response is simply "Yoshi P isn't the best judge of what is good for this game anymore".

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Originally Posted by Aniond

Why do people care what other people get in a game

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We don't, we care how the reward system is designed, what that means for our existing rewards, and what it means for future content.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

What I have learned is that the dev team knows that rewards are meaningless, and instead of fixing it, they turn a blind eye and use them as short term cash ins for content, which is a horrible way to design content in a sub MMO.

I haven't unsubbed but I have stopped listening to Yoshi P's words of wisdom. Theres a discussion going around about Yoshi P wanting to remove cleric stance, and my response is simply "Yoshi P isn't the best judge of what is good for this game anymore".



We don't, we care how the reward system is designed, what that means for our existing rewards, and what it means for future content.

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I'll concede that. It almost came across as a end of the expansion catch up to me. It's sole purpose is to get people gear before it goes live

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Originally Posted by Aniond

It almost came across as a end of the expansion catch up to me. It's sole purpose is to get people gear before it goes live

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Then it does a terrible job at that. I have been told that this weapon is supposed to be both "unobtainable" and "catchup", which leaves me questioning its purpose, let alone the impact it has on the reward system.

Why would you need an ilv280 weapon if you already cleared A12S without it and got your achievement before it's implementation?

Why would you care if somebody else gets an ilv280 weapon? It doesn't affect you in PVP, it doesn't affect you in any possible way.

People that cleared A12S before Anima upgrade to 275, didn't really need to grind for it.
People that cleared A12S before ilv280 weapon, doesn't really need it.

I cleared A12S 3 months ago, and did grind the Anima, but I didn't really need it anyways. In fact, I stopped gearing my main (WHM) when we cleared A12S since I was fine with it, and started gearing my off (SMN) spending everything on it. Last week I got my last 270 piece on my WHM by doing the proto-ultima quest, so yeah, what's the point in gearing full ilv270 if I can beat A12S at ilv260? None.

So tell me; where's the problem?

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

So tell me; where's the problem?

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The idea itself.
How do you know they won't give BIS slots just by random RNG ?

It's just poor gamedesign imo.
They could give way more rewards into the diadem like mounts minions etc and not destroy the work of relic grinders and raiders.

And the fact the company is lying, as a reminder yoshi said the raid weapon should stay the best one in the game.
The relic is better, the 280 too.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

The idea itself.
How do you know they won't give BIS slots just by random RNG ?

It's just poor gamedesign imo.
They could give way more rewards into the diadem like mounts minions etc and not destroy the work of relic grinders and raiders.

And the fact the company is lying, as a reminder yoshi said the raid weapon should stay the best one in the game.
The relic is better, the 280 too.

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It's just a reward before expansion. That's why they're giving out "free" materias V too, and free mats etc... They want people to gear up and enjoy the rest of the content to catch up til the expansion.


Maybe they released Diadem too soon and 3.56 was the best patch to release it, I don't know.

For me, there would be 2 possibilities of Diadem to keep players in this content until 4.0 :
- The true Diadem we should have had with exploration, variety, news things, rewards everywhere (not necessary weapon 280) --> a good amount of work from staff --> less work and time for Stormblood.
- The Diadem we have, with fates, fates and fates, and emergency mission, weapon ilvl 280 (or some piece of gear) > what we got in precedent patches --> less work from staff --> more work and time for Stormblood.

I think it's just a strategy, working on Diadem is less important than working on Stormblood.
Actual Diadem will maybe cause the departure of a few players, but will not (in any case) bring back players.
However, a successful Stormblood will bring back many ancient and new players in the game.
That's why, SE prefer to put all their effort right know in the next expansion.

For those still asking what the problem with the i280s is...some people had a goal of having BiS equipment going into SB and put all the time, effort, and gil into the anima for that reason. Some, like me, for that reason alone. This was not unreasonable, as the relic was BiS from completion to HW. Those people got to have their BiS weapon for nine days before, without warning, their weapon was upstaged.

It's not about caring what others get. If the new Diadem lottery gave out i275s, I would have had no problem with it. It's that the weapon that some people worked for, or only worked for, because it was supposed to be BiS until SB, no longer is. That was why I made one, and as such consider everything put into it, wasted.

You may not have had the same reasons for making one, but please at least understand and respect the motives of those who did.

Then you got to your goal the 280 weapon is a non issue for reasons many people in this thread have already said but you've already quit so why does it matter. and no the devs are not gonna "open their eyes" you need to open yours the weapon is balanced and doesn't effect anyone's working going into the expansion. Balance is much more than weapon damage.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Then you got to your goal the 280 weapon is a non issue for reasons many people in this thread have already said but you've already quit so why does it matter. and no the devs are not gonna "open their eyes" you need to open yours the weapon is balanced and doesn't effect anyone's working going into the expansion. Balance is much more than weapon damage.

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The only reason I made my anima was to have a BiS weapon from completion until SB. Instead my weapon was BiS for nine days. If you can't see how that would be upsetting, I don't know what else I can say.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

The only reason I made my anima was to have a BiS weapon from completion until SB. Instead my weapon was BiS for nine days. If you can't see how that would be upsetting, I don't know what else I can say.

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I just don't see the reason on why you and the others must have the absolute best stats at the END of this expac. What is the point? To show off? To have a small advantage over others in questing? I would be mad if this weapon came out in the middle or in the begining of a raid patch. but it came out during a catch up patch.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I just don't see the reason on why you and the others must have the absolute best stats at the END of this expac.
What is the point? To show off? To have a small advantage over others in questing?

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Why does it matter? Fact is, some people in MMORPGs care about that.

You know what really has no point? Defending the Diadem. Yoshi-P said he wants us to cool down and enjoy the content.

We'll see if that happens. Questioning our reasons why some people were upset, won't help that.
All people like Reynhardt accomplish is that this thread is getting more replies and people getting more annoyed because they have to explain themselves over and over again and not xalming down.

Questioning our reasons like some people do actually works against Yoshi-Ps wish... most replies in this thread by now are likely replies to people who think they can question our reasons and making personal claims (like 'you won't help others people if there wasn't this incentive').


tl;dr: If you want people to calm down, let them be. If you want this topic to die, start by yourself.

Numbers will tell. Curious about the first interview asking about, if the estimated success was achieved, what Yoshi-Ps stance on the afk orgy is and if Diadem stays relevant and popular.

The real problem with this weapon that no one seems to care about it , is that this ultimately doesnt help anyone at all, I was hoping for ilvl 265 270 weapon so I wouldnt have to. Do a relic because I stopped because I hate fates haha which is what the whold diadum is I never got my crystals. Didnt want to deal with the skip soar community Id just simply clear zur and bird farm at a later time. And the lock out on the shire weapon is 10 weeks. So its an insult to put 265 gear in there and no weapons because who needs 265 gear when you have dun scathe, scripts which is coming off of cap, and alex normal. So its just kinda messed up that this weapon serves no purpose other than to get those people that want bis weapons to do it and kinda leaves everyone else hanging with nothing just like they had before.

Meh, the fancy 280 weapons won't mean jack when SB comes out while the anima will remain a trophy as it should. Not having Bis gear for already cleared content is that painful? My anima looks amazing, that dumb 280 can go take a hike.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I just don't see the reason on why you and the others must have the absolute best stats at the END of this expac. What is the point? To show off? To have a small advantage over others in questing? I would be mad if this weapon came out in the middle or in the begining of a raid patch. but it came out during a catch up patch.

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Thing is, the weapon isn't designed simply for "catch up" ilevel-wise. If it was it'd be i270-275. Some people just get this feeling of completeness by reaching the highest item level possible before the expansion specially for their main jobs. Some who already achieved that are just sitting back and are doing side stuff or are gearing up alts. The RNG-based i280 weapons destroyed that since they may or may not be able to get it even if they keep spamming the Diadem. Item level may not be an important pre-expansion goal to some people because it will all get replaced anyway but that doesn't mean it isn't for the others.

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Originally Posted by Nerisu

Thing is, the weapon isn't designed simply for "catch up" ilevel-wise. If it was it'd be i270-275. Some people just get this feeling of completeness by reaching the highest item level possible before the expansion specially for their main jobs. Some who already achieved that are just sitting back and are doing side stuff or are gearing up alts. The RNG-based i280 weapons destroyed that since they may or may not be able to get it even if they keep spamming the Diadem. Item level may not be an important pre-expansion goal to some people because it will all get replaced anyway but that doesn't mean it isn't for the others.

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This. I had AST almost completely maxed out and was working on gearing up DRK, including working on a DRK anima, when this i280 debacle hit. That AST glam is not worth 2 million gil and countless hours lost grinding.

Can't blame people for wanting to be special snowflakes and trying to prove themselves in games, but I can understand why SE did that. This late in this the expansion, they probably want to give those who didn't clear content yet a little help so that more people get to enjoy the real "endgame". Seeing the census this morning that someone posted made it even more clear.

It's kinda funny tho, seeing everyone being so angry and petty about shiny pixels that might help others. On the bright side, we can be glad the real world doesn't work like that... I mean... nobody couldn't possibly have more than you by working less than you right? ... Or does it?

Anyway, I know that personally I'll still have way more respect for someone having the anima weapon than someone rocking the new weapon.

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Originally Posted by Noscifer

Can't blame people for wanting to be special snowflakes and trying to prove themselves in games, but I can understand why SE did that. This late in this the expansion, they probably want to give those who didn't clear content yet a little help so that more people get to enjoy the real "endgame". Seeing the census this morning that someone posted made it even more clear.

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If they wanted to help people catch up, the new weapons would have been i270 or i275. They did not have to be i280. The only reason they are i280 is to bait people into the Diadem that already have an i275 weapon. So, people who have i275s are supposed to care about these weapons...but not care about them?

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Originally Posted by Noscifer

Can't blame people for wanting to be special snowflakes and trying to prove themselves in games, but I can understand why SE did that. This late in this the expansion, they probably want to give those who didn't clear content yet a little help so that more people get to enjoy the real "endgame". Seeing the census this morning that someone posted made it even more clear.

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But the thing is all this weapon did was piss people off , it doesnt help anyone, doesnt help raiders, doesnt help midcore players, or even casuals. Id call myself a midcore player this weapon is trash its unobtainable, because of the low drop rate it would of been alot better to have a lower itemlvl to help players still doing content than an above average weapon that you cant even get. This was just put in there to make people wana do fates and I hate people are leaving the game because of it but it was a bad idea because it helps 0 people.

And if you cleared everything without it... you should care because?? Well maybe because you want it and that's cool since they'll have accomplished their goal of having more people do Diadem which they put work into (that is not something bad). Other than that, they could have made it even more powerful to help people clear stuff, I mean, we got less than 10% players on the most successful NA server clearing what the developper put most of their time into, I'd try to help people see the endgame too if I was SE. The only thing I really don't like, is the fact that they went for the RNG aspect that coming for ArcheAge totally ruin the fun factor from a game after a while.

(Sorry the reply was too long so I had to cut it in two)

As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy that people give negative feedback about the RNG aspect but I really don't understand why we're so angry as a community (or even throwing tantrums from a few posts in here) about a weapon sightly better introduced 2 months before a new expansion. Another bright side is that it might give some very bored player that had been there done that a little incentive to play before the expansion. Killing two birds with one stone isn't that bad.

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Originally Posted by Noscifer

(Sorry the reply was too .

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I'd say they would of gotten Just as many people to do it if it was 265 weapons with better rng and pissed off way fewer people in the process

Another point is people have cleared content like A11S or A12S even without Savage weapons, (and also not full Alex gear) so why exactly is it that people needed/need a 280 weapon?
It has nothing to do with catching up. Fact of the matter is a weapon of higher value was added to Diadem as there may have been no players going there and they spent a large amount of resources on re-doing Diadem :/

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Originally Posted by Noscifer

This late in this the expansion, they probably want to give those who didn't clear content yet a little help so that more people get to enjoy the real "endgame".

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Yoshi said it himself. The weapon is damn near impossible to get. What's the point of a weapon meant to help people clear be near impossible to get? If lucky, only one person of the 8 man party will even have the weapon.

No, this was just incentive for everyone to run Diadem. Relevant or not, it's hard for people to ignore a 280 weapon. Besides, the weapon isn't what's stopping people from clearing content. A person having trouble with savage is not suddenly going to do better with a 280 weapon. In fact, everyone in that party would need the weapon for it to make a noticeable difference, so if this was meant as a catch up weapon they failed hard on its implementation.

The 270 weapon they'll be able to get from Dun Scaith next patch will serve them better for a catch up weapon.
With that, all the 280 weapon accomplishes is being a carrot on a stick tier bait for players who already worked hard for thier Anima and raid weapon.

Also we don't know if that is just a forshadowing of new gear distribution.

Why shouldn't it be the case from now on that Diadem always hands out the ilvl from the next tier, but released mid-cycle?

4.0+4.05 320 tome gear + upgrade, 330 raid gear, 315 primal weapon, 320 raid normal gear
4.1+41.5 upgrade per hunt (330), primal weapon (325), Diadem weapon (340), 24-man gear (320), proto-ultima-equivalent (330)
4.2+4.25 340 tome gear + upgrade, 350 raid gear
4.3 upgrade per hunt (350), primal weapon (345), Diadem weapon (360), 24-man gear (340), proto-ultima-equivalent (350)

Some people just don't want that and they gave their reasons. But good reasons to do that? Didn't see them.

If I see the claim "People want more gearing options" I imagine something like that:

4.0+4.05 320 tome gear + upgrade (not only by raid, but also maybe per extreme primal [weekly quest: x kills/week or some of those "special tasks" some people suggested to add to contents] or something other, balanced time/skill-wise to make both an attractive way to obtain them); 330 raid weapon; 315 primal weapon, 320 raid normal gear

4.1+4.15 upgrade per hunt+24 man (330), primal weapon (325), 24-man gear (320), another set of 330 left side gear attached to more casual midcore-content (maybe GC/FC related activities, Diadem, etc.), proto-ultima-equivalent right side (330)

etc.

We already have high ilvl inflation, that's at least what many people discuss often, and this ilvl 280 weapon gives the impression, that they're speeding it even up.
YoshiP did say we should calm down. He didn't say it was an exception because of the arriving expansion to dispel any doubt.

Also:
Sometimes people seem to forgot that with every expansion the ammount of jobs rise. Do you want to share gear with even more jobs?
Because I guess one of the reasons we have so much gear sharing between jobs is that you couldn't even get more than the existing 7 sets [hard enough to get them all] with only 2 sets available. Although we soon have 14 jobs instead of 9 obs in ARR. But still only 7 sets. :/
This would've been a good way of introduc a third way to achieve a 270 set. But well, they failed.

I am honestly getting very, very tired of people saying they don't understand why people are upset over the i280s when I have explained it at least five times in this thread alone. You may not agree, but you should at least understand by now.

Short, short form. For some people one reason, or the only reason, they put all the time, gil and effort into an anima was to have a BiS weapon from completion to SB. A perfectly reasonable goal, given that the relic was BiS from finish to HW. These i280s were dropped without warning just nine days after the final anima step, rendering all that work worthless to those who built one for that reason.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

I am honestly getting very, very tired of people.

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. Also u could add it doesn't help anyone still progressing through content either

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

. Also u could add it doesn't help anyone still progressing through content either

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You could add that it sets a precident for reckless reward implementation in the future and shows how much the dev team cares about reward balance on the the higher end of the spectrum (though they have always held the "everyone deserves everything" mentality, this is a step further than they have ever gone before, what could be next?)

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I just don't see the reason on why you and the others must have the absolute best stats at the END of this expac. What is the point? To show off? To have a small advantage over others in questing? I would be mad if this weapon came out in the middle or in the begining of a raid patch. but it came out during a catch up patch.

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What I wonder is: if they really care about BiS that much, they would have likely been holding Alexandrian Metal weapons for a LONG time. Saying they worked on Anima to get BiS sounds like just "oh, I now happen to luckily been patched into the big leagues but don't want to be patched out of it" to me.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

What I wonder is: if they really care about BiS that much, they would have likely been holding Alexandrian Metal weapons for a LONG time. Saying they worked on Anima to get BiS sounds like just "oh, I now happen to luckily been patched into the big leagues but don't want to be patched out of it" to me.

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I mean they did have the BiS since 3.1. So it wasn't really 9 days. It is just the final step of Anima happened to be to the BIS for 9 days on a half patch that no one really cares about.

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Originally Posted by Elany

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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What's up with all of these witty teenager comments? Just respect other people's opinions and voice your own.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Everything with value is built upon principles. This includes a person's faith into the decisions that are made about the mmo they love to play. When the devs abandon their own principles, and try to validate it with RNG based acquisition because they can't figure out any other way to get players to run their content, it gives many players a very empty and defeated feeling.

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Every time someone uses that failed logic that none of this ilvl thing matters cuz SB in 3 months i want to quote you to them because they don't seem to understand their logic is flawed and that with that way of thinking i shouldn't buy a new car because it will be an old model next year. UNTIL SB IT MATTERS. As someone who has worked her bum off to get a relic or two. it upsets me that i can no longer feel like all that work was justified because people are getting i280 purely off of luck and not hard work and elbow grease..