RIP Minion Collectors :(

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Well I could count now mmorpgs who have a competitive pvp modes with exclusive rewards but to reply you... Feast is still a competitive ranked pvp mode wich should be treated like this genre has nothing to do with it.

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Well it think it for how SE handles stuff in the game for the most part SE only does time exclusives or doesn't even do it at all for most the stuff in the game but then they totally flip and be like we going to put this super limited exclusive item but it only in pvp. Stuff from raids eventually everyone can get, the primals ponies had horrible drop rate and people took lot of time (in synced mode) to get those now they buffed the drop rate and can do unysnced, or be like making the fenrir mount from gold saucer super limited by saying well you have to get million mgp in 2 months otherwise it be gone forever. So it not people are mad that it PVP only it how SE is handling it.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

If you think about it, minion collectors are ready to buy anything to get the minion. A plush, a book, a mog digital minion etc... if you break their collection by putting something special and limited as this, they'll start giving up on being minion collectors, therefore lowering the sales of mogstation items, plushes, books, soundtracks etc...

I actually felt some kind of relief when this was going to be limited to the top 10, so I could stop this obsession on getting all the minions and mounts, but now I feel forced to continue! For the true endgame!

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I suspect this is the core of why there was outcry over the minion and not any of the other exclusive rewards honestly. And also why SE decided to change it: so collectors wouldn't lose motivation to keep buying merchandise to keep up.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You realize everyone has to deal with the same thing right? And here we go with the newcomer bit..... your sense of entitlement is showing sir.

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It isn't entitlement to point out a flaw. Virtually every competitive FPS game has some form of rank depreciation specifically to prevent people from sitting. You keep clamouring on about skill, except it isn't necessarily skill determining who ranks within the top 100. People can and have spammed Feast the first week, then sit on their rank while others who didn't have the same amount of time to dedicate to it, have to catch up-- all the while losing their rank by virtue of playing more matches. Keep in mind, none of us can control the groups we'll get. Someone could simply get a string of bad groups and lose rank, yet people who are sitting on their rank have nothing to worry about. What you're advocating for is essentially "I got here first!" That's neither competitive nor skill oriented. It's the equivalent of cheering because you were first in line.

Well depending on how you will get the minion achievement later I believe that its a way better for the longevity of PVP than limiting it to the top 10 players. Would you truly want lots of collectors that are only in it for the minion in your team with no idea how to play PVP while you try to get on top? Now depending on what we have to do, the collectors can take their time and if they truly want the minion they will work towards the goal to achieve it. Thus making them take part in the PVP way longer than one season. Maybe they even start to like it because now they dont have to reach a certain place in a certain time while noticing on the way that they stand no chance (thus maybe even loosing all the will to PVP again).

I am quite sure that people would have been equally pissed if the Alex mount would have only gone to the first 10 people that got him beaten.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

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Hahah alright dude. Your opinion is clear. I shall leave you with it. I dont know how hard it can be for you to understand a simple point, you dont have to try and counterattack me with everything youve got. Ill just leave you with your opinion ive expressed mine and how this case has affected the feast in a negative manner, proof is people actually quitting the feast beacuse of this. Im not talking about this affecting everyone negatively, im talking purely about the pvp community. For us, this announcement was bad news and it made people quit. Simple as that. You cant counterattack this fact with your personal opinions sorry mate.

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Originally Posted by Noutaja

You cant counterattack this fact with your personal opinions sorry mate.

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Have fun crying the next time they remove a reward from PvP, I guess.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Have fun crying the next time they remove a reward from PvP, I guess.

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You can poke at him all you want, but he's not arguing over what might or should happen. He's saying that bad things actually DID happen. Saying that they shouldn't happen doesn't reverse them.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

He's saying that bad things actually DID happen. Saying that they shouldn't happen doesn't reverse them.

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It's a player's prerogative if they decide that just because x is now available in another way, they should stop doing PvP and lose out on y and z, too. It also doesn't make sense and only gives them a disadvantage, and gives people who want the reward an advantage. It's just giving up, and it makes them look bad.

But if I hear someone say x being removed has caused so and so forth and they're all quitting PvP, that isn't an issue of SE attempting to appease those who do not want to do Feast. Feast, or rather PvP, is an acquired taste and not something everyone will want to do, so crying about it isn't doing much, let alone alleviate the issue at hand. It's not even removed, it's still there as a reward, it just means that those that didn't do it can also achieve it by grinding. There is also a difference between acquiring Savage gear and mounts after its prime, you can pay Gil to obtain them, while you can't pay Gil to get a limited PvP reward.

On the rewards themselves, I think both the minion and mount should be made available through playing PVP. Make it so you have to win x amount of matches or queue for x amount of roulettes. Basically, incentive playing actual PVP, not just being top tier. People will be far more willing to attempt it if they feel there's a chance at obtaining the rewards. By rewarding only the top placements, people who are otherwise hesitant to PVP see the task as too daunting. "I'll never rank in the top 100. So why bother?" It's these people you need to incentive, not the existing PVPers.

So basically top players will never get good rewards because people will whine that they can't have what others have. Instead we'll just go back to being capped on wolf marks 24/7 because we own all the pvp gear that requires zero skill to acquire.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

So basically top players will never get good rewards because people will whine that they can't have what others have. Instead we'll just go back to being capped on wolf marks 24/7 because we own all the pvp gear that requires zero skill to acquire.

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Top players earn titles, achievements and rank high on leaderboards. From a developer perspective, you have to look for ways to incentive people who aren't playing. This is why The Creator's difficult was scaled back. I wager participation has drastically increased, if only based on the weekly PFs I see. People already PVPing aren't going to abruptly quit because they aren't getting a minion. But hesitation PVPers might give it a try because that minion scratches their itch. If they wound up liking it, they'll stick around even after obtaining said minion. That's one way of building the PvP community.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Top players earn titles, achievements and rank high on leaderboards. From a developer perspective, you have to look for ways to incentive people who aren't playing. This is why The Creator's difficult was scaled back. I wager participation has drastically increased, if only based on the weekly PFs I see. People already PVPing aren't going to abruptly quit because they aren't getting a minion. But hesitation PVPers might give it a try because that minion scratches their itch. If they wound up liking it, they'll stick around even after obtaining said minion. That's one way of building the PvP community.

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From a devoleper perspective, you should also look that the skill of the playerbase dont hit rock bottom because you give all the big rewards to the lowest common determinator which will be always gonna lower and you reach a point where the whole game is a joke

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

From a devoleper perspective, you should also look that the skill of the playerbase dont hit rock bottom because you give all the big rewards to the lowest common determinator which will be always gonna lower and you reach a point where the whole game is a joke

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Where does this even come from?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

"I'll never rank in the top 100. So why bother?" It's these people you need to incentive, not the existing PVPers.

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There are already rewards for people to pvp but you need those exclusive rewards to keep top players motivated too. We already have not many options what to do and wolfmarks are useless for most pvpers we need incentive to TRY to get better and being on the top. There is really no point having alot of ppl into pvp when everyone is playing bad and gets everything. Also you know why they kept top100 rewards exclusive? Because it is possible if you have a brain and got practice its not out of reach. Ppl who saying "Ill never rank in top100" also showing that they dont want to get better. We dont need players who dont want to get better whats the point of a ranking if u dont get rewards that are tied to it? Feast is incentive to get ppl being better. You know what those "grinds" for that minion will look like? PF "win farming for minion" then just wintrade in lightparty. DO YOU actually think bad ppl would play solo ranked for the minion it would take them so long cause unlike frontlines you cant get carried that much. This always happens in every pvp mode back in frontlines pvpers hated pver cause they just afk for tomes etc. Locking the good rewards behind top100/top10/top1 is nice because you either have the will to get better or you dont and if u dont you are that kind of player who drops after receiving the reward anyways.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Top players earn titles, achievements and rank high on leaderboards. From a developer perspective, you have to look for ways to incentive people who aren't playing. This is why The Creator's difficult was scaled back. I wager participation has drastically increased, if only based on the weekly PFs I see. People already PVPing aren't going to abruptly quit because they aren't getting a minion. But hesitation PVPers might give it a try because that minion scratches their itch. If they wound up liking it, they'll stick around even after obtaining said minion. That's one way of building the PvP community.

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While that's true, there's more to it than that. If the goal is simply to focus on the current state, then yeah... carrot on a stick is generally the best way. If the goal is to make a certain type of content be a prevalent and uniquely memorable thing (PvP in this case), it actually works against it. Why should anyone care about PvP when it just becomes another PvE-esque grind? Why should anyone care about any form of content when it quickly just becomes a dull addition to what already exists and often does the job better? Diadem was a pretty damn good example of that.

If all you do is literally hang that carrot in front of people, that's all they'll see. We've already been trained into that mentality with things like tome grinding and the normality that speed running has reached. The latter of that not even deserving to be identified as "speed run", in hindsight, since that has literally become the expected norm from moment content goes live for a lot of this game. It's direction like that that makes the games content stale in the long run.

Then again, a lot of this depends on the achievement requirements. In the very low likelihood that it is an absurdly difficult achievement, as opposed to simple "queued for (or won) 100 matches", then such concerns I expressed are ill founded. If it's just another faceroll thing though, then the mere fact that they think the earring is a good compromise to the effort needed to rank for some servers is evidence enough of either:

- Their half-assed actions in likely thinking "earrings are slightly more noticeable than rings, but significantly less than other gear, so I doubt people will feel jealous". I'd wager there's a ridiculously small number of people that actually give a damn about the look of most (if any) earrings in the game.

or

- the intentional outlook they have for player mentality. Carrot on a stick for pretty much everything in the game, with practically no possibility to ever expect otherwise. This is fine, to be honest, but an extremely shallow approach to game philosophy. It's along the lines of F2P mentality.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Where does this even come from?

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Common sense. If you need empiric evidence, look at other mmos which done this

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

From a devoleper perspective, you should also look that the skill of the playerbase dont hit rock bottom because you give all the big rewards to the lowest common determinator which will be always gonna lower and you reach a point where the whole game is a joke

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Hence titles, achievements and leaderboards. The majority of hardcore raiders and PvPers play because they aim to be the best at their chosen form of entertainment. Look at the highly competitive FPS and MOBA markets. Most everything can be unlocked just by playing yet you'll see thousands of players striving to be top x in the game or unlock all of that content. There's some exclusive rewards in MOBAs but they're fleeting. An example of catering to the hardcore was Gordias and Midas Savage. What happened? Barely anyone touched it-- to the point we saw less than 1% clears. Developers cannot focus on the hardcore over others, especially in a case like FFXIV, where they need to build the PvP community first. As it stands, PvP is on life support. You won't get people into it by putting a reward most won't be able to obtain. You have to incentivize them first, then fuel that competitive urge.

King Stefan does have some great examples for rewards unique to PvP though: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ve-PVP-Rewards

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

While that's true, there's more to it than that. If the goal is simply to focus on the current state, then yeah... carrot on a stick is generally the best way. If the goal is to make a certain type of content be a prevalent and uniquely memorable thing (PvP in this case), it actually works against it. Why should anyone care about PvP when it just becomes another PvE-esque grind? Why should anyone care about any form of content when it quickly just becomes a dull addition to what already exists and often does the job better? Diadem was a pretty damn good example of that.

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Honestly, that should be the primary goal at the moment. As I noted above, PvP desperately needs something to incentivize the playerbase at large. The devs have been going about it backwards, either by making new rewards for each new map-- effectively killing any previous map/mode or through rewarding a select few. The latter only works once you have an established community, though not always. Overwatch, for example, has very few exclusive rewards. Instead, you simply earn a currency and unlock stuff. This helps keep everyone satisfied because less skilled players still have plenty to strive for, even if it may take them longer to achieve. A bigger issue for FFXIV is the lack of a rank depreciation, which only encourages top ranked players to stop PvPing just to maintain their position.

Keep in mind, the vast majority of players in FFXIV are PvE centric. A PvE grind is what they anticipate, and why many actually play. Therefore, you do need to focus some of that same grind into PvP, otherwise they won't do it.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

- the intentional outlook they have for player mentality. Carrot on a stick for pretty much everything in the game, with practically no possibility to ever expect otherwise. This is fine, to be honest, but an extremely shallow approach to game philosophy. It's along the lines of F2P mentality.

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Yes and no. I used to play FPS competitively. Unless you're in the Twitch bracket (years after I quit the genre), you'll actually get very little. Games like Halo, Call of Duty and Battlefield mostly reward achievements and cosmetic things for bragging rights, like custom tags or painting your gun. Few of those are exclusive. The playerbase in FPS plays primarily for fun or to outrank other players. You don't have to incentivize them because the game itself is incentive enough. FFXIV doesn't have that luxury because its audience isn't PvP oriented. So you need to nudge them towards it in the hopes they'll find it fun. Basically, you start with a carrot, then gradually move away from it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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Thats true but i delibritly said "big rewards", i mean would there be as much as complaint if the title would be exclusiv only and not the minion? I would say rather not, so the minion is percieved as the "Better" reward. And the best vanity reward is that what is percived as the best, because ofc vanity doesnt give gameplay advantage. So i dont know how incentivising it is to reward only with "minor rewards".


Also, even when its a bit of off topic:
Yeah i also dont think that only focus on one player group in a mmo which is a as big as FFXIV is not a good thing, however this go for all player groups really. If you center your whole game and reward structure arround midcore, or even lowcore, players, games got boring as hell, then maybe you have clearrates of 99 % but you have also saturation and resignattion. I think there should be always a reward structure on the top end of an MMO where the player at least have the aspiration to pursue higher level content, and reading the last Yoshida interview he thinks on that line as well. I also dont agree that this being a PVE heavy game justfices as you say there is no challange in pve just grind. There is challenging pve content out there and actually i think alot of the problem with the relic weapons came from that people want the best rewards, doesnt want to the hardest content, but also dont want a tedious long grind which seems unreasonable for the most people if i look at the criticisim. So essentialy there is a group of people who want rewards for being not good in the game, and doesnt want even have secondary progression path which is the only reward path that exist beside the Skillcheck path in mmos, timesink. I dont see how this game, or any other game as we seen example of this in the other MMOs, suceed because of that. This only results in the already mentioned saturation and resignation and then top player base leaves and then there is also nothing to aspire for.


That said the post you linked has good ideas tho, and i also agreeing that this game has a problem with PVP playerbase, i would suggest the idea to derank people overall who dont play in a specific amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

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It's the less the reward itself and more the exclusivity. No one touches LoV, yet no one's complained about the minions gated behind it. Why? You can still get them.

I think you may be misinterpreting me. There should absolutely be a challenge, hence achievements and whatnot. But the current PvP structure isn't really rewarding challenge, it's rewarding whoever gets there first. This why most competitive circuits avoid having many (or any) exclusive rewards-- instead making them difficult to obtain, but always obtainable. It assures even inexperienced players have plenty to strive towards even if they're late to the party. I wager the Fenrir Pup did far more to incentivize players than most other methods FFXIV's attempted, though their misstep was making it sellable. Like I mentioned, Overwatch keeps people playing because if you want everything, you have to. The only exclusive content they've offered is promotional stuff, and even then, player backlash after the Olympic packs prompted Blizzard to let people buy the unique Halloween skins, albeit at a higher cost. It's undoubtedly a grind, but it's effective in keeping their playerbase active.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

e already have not many options what to do and wolfmarks are useless for most pvpers we need incentive to TRY to get better and being on the top.

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Well a better way would to like every 30 days the top 10 players get the special reward not 10 people total ever and no one else. This not some groundbreaking world competition or anything.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Honestly, that should be the primary goal at the moment. As I noted above, PvP desperately needs something to incentivize the playerbase at large. The devs have been going about it backwards, either by making new rewards for each new map-- effectively killing any previous map/mode or through rewarding a select few. The latter only works once you have an established community, though not always. Overwatch, for example, has very few exclusive rewards. Instead, you simply earn a currency and unlock stuff. This helps keep everyone satisfied because less skilled players still have plenty to strive for, even if it may take them longer to achieve. A bigger issue for FFXIV is the lack of a rank depreciation, which only encourages top ranked players to stop PvPing just to maintain their position.

Keep in mind, the vast majority of players in FFXIV are PvE centric. A PvE grind is what they anticipate, and why many actually play. Therefore, you do need to focus some of that same grind into PvP, otherwise they won't do it.

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There are PvP-only rewards that we can get and they have been there since its introduction (the ADS mounts). All they're doing is repeating the same cycle with almost no change besides said carrot. There is little reason to expect anything different of an outcome. PvP is, and always will be, seen as nothing more than a grind to fulfill PvE needs in this game for the majority. The cause is because there's no reason to think about PvP positively in its own light. There's no reason to distinguish it from doing something else to get what you want (since you can just AFK through PvP to get tomes, for example). Even in the case of the mounts, it's not much different of an outcome than just getting a bad group, except you still benefit from a loss with tome rewards (not a bad thing).

In other words, it's poor marketing and practice for PvP content, which was what I was getting at. Why should people look at or treat PvP differently from PvE, when the goal rewards are possible to be acquired in the same mindless venture? You can currently categorize both forms of content as the same objective. Get a match/dungeon/raid done ASAP (without needing to think about it at all).

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Yes and no. I used to play FPS competitively. Unless you're in the Twitch bracket (years after I quit the genre), you'll actually get very little. Games like Halo, Call of Duty and Battlefield mostly reward achievements and cosmetic things for bragging rights, like custom tags or painting your gun. Few of those are exclusive. The playerbase in FPS plays primarily for fun or to outrank other players. You don't have to incentivize them because the game itself is incentive enough. FFXIV doesn't have that luxury because its audience isn't PvP oriented. So you need to nudge them towards it in the hopes they'll find it fun. Basically, you start with a carrot, then gradually move away from it.

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That's true but as I said above, we've already done that. We're well beyond this being any form of trial and error, since we have the data on the matter, and it's just repeating itself over and over. Incentives have always been a thing with PvP in this game. The minion/mount from ranking was a proper attempt at the gradual removal. Now that that's not a thing, we're right back to where we started. Thinking the only way to fix the participation is to use the same method with that carrot, which was done multiple times already. I highly doubt a large number of people care about unique earrings in this game outside of collections sake, nor do I think anyone would hail earrings as the same sort of enjoyment or prestige as minions (and inevitably mounts).

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well a better way would to like every 30 days the top 10 players get the special reward not 10 people total ever and no one else. This not some groundbreaking world competition or anything.

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It doesn't have to be that way. What they could do is allow a list of rewards as more seasons start. Top ranking players pick one or so rewards from the entire list (which will include prior season rewards). That way, as seasons continue, they can introduce more ranking tiers for rewards. I.e. top 11-50 ranks will get access to last seasons rewards list

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

If you like to play eSports, please search for an other game, there are a lot better fitting for that purpose! FFXIV is still a RPG before all...

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Politely, no. I like this game, and I love the competitive aspect of this game, even as flawed, neglected, and avoided as it is. If you are of the mindset that this game should not have a competitive aspect to it, after a community, however large or small, has risen up enough to let devs know that it is something the players want and enjoy, then you do more harm to the game than PvP or its playerbase does. Furthermore, if you would write off and dismss the small group of players who enjoy PvP, I ask you: who's next? Raiders? Role Players? Your line of thinking is what kills a game.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Politely, no. I like this game, and I love the competitive aspect of this game, even as flawed, neglected, and avoided as it is. If you are of the mindset that this game should not have a competitive aspect to it, after a community, however large or small, has risen up enough to let devs know that it is something the players want and enjoy, then you do more harm to the game than PvP or its playerbase does. Furthermore, if you would write off and dismss the small group of players who enjoy PvP, I ask you: who's next? Raiders? Role Players? Your line of thinking is what kills a game.

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Do you know the difference between eSport and "competitive" content?
Edit: I was one of those in 1.x who suggested to add a highscore!

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Originally Posted by Praesul

So basically top players will never get good rewards (..)

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When i rember being #1 in sport events i do not remember anyone doing it to get MONEY...
We did it to "shine" and show we are the best, but never to get anything...
Still as professional you have some issues with ADs and you need sponsors, but thats not why we doing sports to begin with!

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

(..) It doesn't have to be that way. What they could do is allow a list of rewards as more seasons start. Top ranking players pick one or so rewards from the entire list (which will include prior season rewards). That way, as seasons continue, they can introduce more ranking tiers for rewards. I.e. top 11-50 ranks will get access to last seasons rewards list

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Thats a system many other games use...
Its based on the idea that you have one currency and top ranks getting more as lower in rank (1 to 10 getting 1000 gil; 11 to 100 getting 100 gil; 101 to 1000 getting 10 gil)
For those who try to attack -> its an example and the system is the same, its the root thinking of the system, you can have it in many ways (other example is upgrading low materials into better ones: 2 low gives 1 better; 2 better gives 1 super)

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well a better way would to like every 30 days the top 10 players get the special reward not 10 people total ever and no one else. This not some groundbreaking world competition or anything.

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Well ppl would still complain and 30 days is a very small window and they still couldnt place into top ranks. see? Either way ppl would complain cause its for the top ranks.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

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Square Enix attach a lot of minions to physical products because they know it will increase sales as people will buy them just for the minions (I know I have... I've given some of the plush toys away as no interest in them...), but if people can no longer have a complete collection, then I have to wonder how many other people will reconsider buying physical merchandise if their collection will still always be incomplete?

~snip~

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And here I still agonize over not being able to get the wind-up Dalamud or Bahamut. Now there will be more missing from my collection? Sitting at 189 here. I wouldn't even mind trying to actually learn to PvP for FF14, but the few times I actually did try, I was met with so much hostility that I haven't seen since the days of Runescape PKing in The Wilderness.

Yeah, I really have no intention of trying to even deal with that.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

There are PvP-only rewards that we can get and they have been there since its introduction (the ADS mounts). All they're doing is repeating the same cycle with almost no change besides said carrot. There is little reason to expect anything different of an outcome. PvP is, and always will be, seen as nothing more than a grind to fulfill PvE needs in this game for the majority. The cause is because there's no reason to think about PvP positively in its own light. There's no reason to distinguish it from doing something else to get what you want (since you can just AFK through PvP to get tomes, for example). Even in the case of the mounts, it's not much different of an outcome than just getting a bad group, except you still benefit from a loss with tome rewards (not a bad thing).

In other words, it's poor marketing and practice for PvP content, which was what I was getting at. Why should people look at or treat PvP differently from PvE, when the goal rewards are possible to be acquired in the same mindless venture? You can currently categorize both forms of content as the same objective. Get a match/dungeon/raid done ASAP (without needing to think about it at all).

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And the issue with those has always been the dev's insistence to release a new mount/minion exclusive to whatever new mode or map comes out; effectively killing any of the previous PvP content before it. People abandoned Seal Rock en masse because, oh look, Fenrir Pup can only be obtained by playing The Feast. This continued with Shatter, hence why Fenrir Pups went from 50k to 500k (on Balmung). Had they continuously kept rewards in actual participation, be it through winning or consistent play, this wouldn't be an issue. In fact, they could even keep the Hellhound reward exactly as is, except introduce rank depreciation and keep it available for every Feast season. Not necessarily the best way, but a better alternative. You simply aren't going to incentivize people who aren't keen to PvP with exclusive content. They'll just feel excluded, especially with the horrible rank system currently in place.

That's the thing. They won't. FFXIV caters to a PvE centric audience. Thus, you have to attract those people with similar incentives, lest they ignore it. You aren't going to get the vast majority of FFXIV's playerbase to PvP on the basis of being competitive. At least, not until you have already built a stable PvP community. This is why games like Overwatch make the barrier for entry so easy. Someone like myself, who has never played, could pick it up today and work towards the same rewards long time players already have. Essentially, we're all on the same level. I only need practice, which is also made much easier.

Admittedly, that isn't the only issue with PvP in FFXIV. Frankly, I feel adding even more abilities was a mistake. But that's another topic entirely. Put simply, FFXIV needs to keep PvP familiar to its PvE counterpart due to the playerbase it attracts. They haven't, which is why no one does it.

Probably been said already but the PvP Scene needs better incentive to get people to PvP instead of SE trying to bait Non-PvPers to compete it won't keep the community alive. Everytime they add something people only play long enough to get the reward or they try and drag the dedicated players down.

As a Minion-Collector I won't do the PvP players a disservice by joining for minions, mounts or anything else when I'm not interested in the activity in the first place. I would rather we skip all the BS and honestly just have SE put the minions/mounts on the Mogstation after the PvP season ends as A last case/worst resort scenario option before I do anything I don't want to.

They aren't doing the PvP or Minion/Mount collecting communities any favors by trying to "force" us to intermingle.

We will end like in mobile games:
Everything is put into mogstation, even at release!
When winning pvp games you earn mogstation crysta to buy them...
When missed the event time or you cant become top 10 in pvp you can buy crysta with real money...

So is it that what we all want?

At least its much better than what we have now!
Everyone should be able to get it in a pay to play game, point!
We already pay a monthly fee, to milk us with extra is impudent.
If it is really not enough then they should go up one $ a month or such, but not with those extras!

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

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This is so extra.

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

Nah I picture the mount being next.

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But the mount wont be free itll be on mog store for 29.99$

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Originally Posted by Zampp

But the mount wont be free itll be on mog store for 29.99$

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Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit lol.

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Originally Posted by Aillith

Yup. This has removed my desire to spend money on any more physical SE products.

Collecting minions was fun - but as a collector, knowing you can never achieve a 100% full collection ruins the whole collecting thing. Its removed a collectors end goal.

A lot of collectors are not the type to be so into pvp that they can attain top 10 on their server. I also have to wonder if those die hard pvp fans are all that interested in minions? It feels like giving a gladiator a plush toy prize after winning a battle?

I am not sure the reward matches the intended group while at the same time ruining things for collectors.

But atleast SE have convinced me not to buy their products as readily anymore.

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As a mount collector, I think I'll be saving more money from now on as well... They're a bit pricey for a big hole in my collection anyway. Legacy aside because it was *technically* a different game and I could deal I guess?

Somehow, I feel like they won't be exclusive and limited forever. Come next year they'll be on the Mog Stations for $30.

theyll be in the cash shop next year no worries!

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Originally Posted by ChimeraXIII

Legacy aside because it was *technically* a different game and I could deal I guess?

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Please care about all exclusivity or don't care about any. PvPers worked very hard for their mounts for an entire season. Legacy was the same game (same engine, very similar lore, same name, same characters), it was just remade.

Don't take advocate taking away one person's achievement if you're not willing to take away a different person's achievement.