A12 savage World first 3 days after patch

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

But I think Creator Savage being "midcore" is difficulty is way better.

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It would be better, if they did made it right. But Creator Savage is ways easier than final Coil.

In final Coil I've spent 2 weeks (3 days per week, 2,5 hrs per day) in T10 and around 3 weeks in T11.

Now in Creator Savage after the first week (2 days 2hrs and one day 3 hrs): A9 down and A10 around 50%.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

It would be better, if they did made it right. But Creator Savage is ways easier than final Coil.

In final Coil I've spent 2 weeks (3 days per week, 2,5 hrs per day) in T10 and around 3 weeks in T11.

Now in Creator Savage after the first week (2 days 2hrs and one day 3 hrs): A9 down and A10 around 50%.

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I question if this is a symptomatic side effect of savage. It made players get way better than coil, so now savage raiders would find coil challenge not so challenging anymroe.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

I question if this is a symptomatic side effect of savage. It made players get way better than coil, so now savage raiders would find coil challenge not so challenging anymroe.

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That's hard to say, Coil was notorious for having mechanic heavy fights back in the day, T5 was some players breaking point. Then almost all of T6-T9 was nothing but a combo of dps checks and mechanics, some even have trouble with T9 to this day, and lots of people won't really attempt to help a T9 clear because of how easy it is to mess up. Even Final coil was built more towards mechanics, they all feature dps checks throughout the fights, but those checks weren't the main focus of that raid.

With Father we have high dps checks with very little to do on the mechanics side, Son gave us moderate mechanics with moderate dps checks, and now Creator is giving us low dps checks and moderate mechanics. There isn't anything consistent in the Alexander raids that really suggests that players became better with Alexander.

As it feels in my book Thordan EX and Sophia EX are very reminiscent to how coil was, and even in some regards these two primals might be the hardest things I've fought in all of 3.0.

Just curious if anyone has an idea how the JP community is reacting as well.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Wait, what?!!

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Once again you just argue from your point of view:
True, server first kills who can beat all savage will be geared in nearly "no time" (if they have luck with RNG) but most who can clear the content need longer than a month to clear all and even then its gated behind weekly loot - you will not get such a high iLvL within 4 weeks if you are not in a server first group!

You are so out of reality...

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Are you drunk?? Alex normal + scripture + sophia weapon + craftable gear o.o

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Originally Posted by Pasquale

Are you drunk?? Alex normal + scripture + sophia weapon + craftable gear o.o

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I believe the point she is trying to makes is that the "hardcore pro" groups are going to be geared (meaning 270'd up) very quickly because they can easily down the content. Meanwhile those of moderate and lower skill levels will take much longer.

On another note, the general impression I get from these threads is that the destination (clearing the raids) is the main goal and little else matters once you've reached that goal. My my my how times have changed. I remember when the goal was the content itself because it used to be fun enough that you wanted to play it over and over

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

My my my how times have changed. I remember when the goal was the content itself because it used to be fun enough that you wanted to play it over and over

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Which content ? The thing i've waited 4/5 months and called diadem ? The thing that everyone threw up in less than a week ? Ah ok, going back to raid personnally.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

That's not to say they might not release Midas/Gordias tier of difficulty in the future, but it's just not something you're guaranteed to receive. Nothing about Savage difficulty is something you are guaranteed to receive as expected. That's just the nature of any product you purchase that you are not privy to before purchase.

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It is more like you never know what you are going to get next because the developers don't know what to do with raiding anymore.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is more like you never know what you are going to get next because the developers don't know what to do with raiding anymore.

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The easy copout for devs is to make PvP content, because when the hardcore folks have to fight each other to advance they will naturally generate their own challenge and content. The hardcore players will still complain, chiefly over class balancing for PvP, but those complaints can be easily spliced off from the rest of the game.

Consequently, the hardcore folks get their fix and are lopped off from the vast majority of the PvE community that won't have to put up with their angst, and everyone is happy.

Personally I think it is a misnomer for any player to be "hardcore" solely off PvE content: competing against an AI is simply not analogous to fighting another live person.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is more like you never know what you are going to get next because the developers don't know what to do with raiding anymore.

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You shouldn't want to know what to expect, the patches are already predictable with tomes and the dungeons. Not even Coils were the same throughout that series, they had more consistency in terms of overall design was, but the difficulty did spike here and there. Like I stated awhile back, the reduced raid difficulty sounds like a shift in design philosophy. If that is the case, it's something that should have been done earlier or discussed about.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Like I stated awhile back, the reduced raid difficulty sounds like a shift in design philosophy. If that is the case, it's something that should have been done earlier or discussed about.

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Very much that. XIV is frequently an example of otherwise hindsight changes. Of course, while this genre evolves through that same concept, the devs here often overlook the obvious approaches towards design philosophy in their attempts to seem fresh. As a result, they end up backpedaling to entry level of functionality or design path.

That's why QoL is much more of a want here than it is in other games. Look how long we've been asking for a right-click report function, only to finally get it after over 3yrs of asking for one of the most basic of functions available in modern MMORPGs. Look at how they introduced BRD songs, where the first combat related song that should teach players the effectiveness of using it, ends up being situational and pulling everything in radius (i.e. a "do not use!" flag for people unaware). Curious if those 4.0 rotation changes will involve BRD songs too. They don't really think things through until it's too late.

It's just a little funny that it can be cleared with so little time. Doesn't bold well sitting around waiting for the next patch. Some people are fine with that, but me...? Nah. Once you beat the raid, that's it. Why do anything else? But to each their own.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

. Once you beat the raid, that's it. Why do anything else? But to each their own.

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To farm it and see how fast you can clear it. This is the way most raidgroups function. They don't just disband once they beat a fight.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

To farm it and see how fast you can clear it. This is the way most raidgroups function. They don't just disband once they beat a fight.

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I'm well aware of that, but the farming is for what purpose? To gear for what? Your weapon is nothing more than a trophy piece for the next big thing will invalidate it. And of course trying to "clear faster" is great and all. But is this not just "something to do"? Rather have my free time to do other things at that point. But again, different people different strokes.

Killing A9s after like 1-2 hours without knowing the fight was a huge let down, but after clearing A10s today (which took about..4-5 hours total) i have to say that fight was alot of fun.
So we're on A11s, only 2 turns left until next savage raids which are 6-8 months away (addon).

It's really fun at the moment but if midcore statics beat this within the first 2 months there will be a huge gap until next "hard" raids in addon, about a half year.

I dont care about it anymore tbh, fun now and enjoy it as long as you can, once beaten run some old content on minimum ilvl or take a break. Breaks are good, hmkay.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

I'm well aware of that, but the farming is for what purpose? To gear for what? Your weapon is nothing more than a trophy piece for the next big thing will invalidate it. And of course trying to "clear faster" is great and all. But is this not just "something to do"? Rather have my free time to do other things at that point. But again, different people different strokes.

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I think a very simple way for many modern gamers to look at it is similar to how you would look at "New Game+" modes, except applied to every activity you do. Cleared a dungeon for the first time? All succeeding times are now NG+. Beat Savage raids? All further attempts are NG+.

Ask yourself why people would play NG+ when most don't even offer anything you couldn't already get, and you have part of the reason why people still continue on when there's no new pillar to topple (yet) in MMORPGs. Some people just like the idea of "completing" something, which in the case of raid tiers, means gearing up until the next activity comes.

Obviously this can lead to boredom, but boredom is something the devs have little to no control over on an individual basis. If I stop feeling like playing MMORPGs for a while for whatever reasons, and rather play an offline game or some FPS like Bioshock, what are the devs here supposed to do to keep me interested? Are they going to turn this game into an FPS or throw Andrew Ryan into the game immediately to keep my interest? I mean that actually sounds intriguing, but it ain't going to happen lol. All they can do is rely on what they know and what direction they want to take the game in (for better or worse).

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I think a very simple way for many modern gamers to look at it is similar to how you would look at "New Game+" modes, except applied to every activity you do. Cleared a dungeon for the first time? All succeeding times are now NG+. Beat Savage raids? All further attempts are NG+.

Ask yourself why people would play NG+ when most don't even offer anything you couldn't already get, and you have part of the reason why people still continue on when there's no new pillar to topple (yet) in MMORPGs. Some people just like the idea of "completing" something, which in the case of raid tiers, means gearing up until the next activity comes.

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Except usually NG+ entails to a higher difficulty or extra content that is only locked behind a second play through(depending on the game anyway). Clearing Savage yields neither one unless you wish to consider self-imposed challenges. I can see what you're trying to say all the same, but the issue is there really is nothing after the completion of Savage when it comes to End Game scene either after or on Savage level. Devs can't control boredom, but they can keep in mind what content the playerbase can do after they cleared savage. What are they working towards? I can say gearing up is pointless because nothing currently will be needed(cause hey, you cleared the hardest content available). Then gearing up again(can be outdone by crafted gear on next big thing, so why waste such time?). Even if you chose not to craft and you geared up normally, unless you're doing it rather spaciously, you'll have geared most jobs before the next patch hits.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

To farm it and see how fast you can clear it. This is the way most raidgroups function. They don't just disband once they beat a fight.

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Yeah, but how long can you farm/speed run a raid fight? Eventually, even that gets boring. Even after my 10th clear of A8S, I was already past ready to move on to a new challenge in a new fight (at least the achievement gave us something to push for, for a bit...).

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Originally Posted by Olympus

Yeah, but how long can you farm/speed run a raid fight? Eventually, even that gets boring. Even after my 10th clear of A8S, I was already past ready to move on to a new challenge in a new fight (at least the achievement gave us something to push for, for a bit...).

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This is nothing new though, it's been this way since coil 1. Until they give some form of horizontal progression, this is what people have to look forward too. Or, as has been so often suggested go back to the SCOB model but DON'T have normal and savage share a lockout.

Raid this time around isn't a gear check. It's all about mechanics. Dps and heal checks are light.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Which content ? The thing i've waited 4/5 months and called diadem ? The thing that everyone threw up in less than a week ? Ah ok, going back to raid personnally.

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In this example, it would be the raids themselves. This thread seems like the end goal is just beating the raid and there's nothing to do after that, and they don't want to do it again. I remember when devs made content that you wanted to replay over and over again because it was genuinely enjoyable. It seems that mindset is a thing of the past, if this thread is anything to go by