As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

One cure per ten seconds is all that is necessary in low level content. With two scathes, I'm pressing more buttons than a 0 DPS healer in sastasha. It's not about the label our jobs have, it's about how much effort the players are putting in, and a lot of healers just don't put in any.

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Not in any of the df I've been in. Maybe it'll be different later but in the end, if I wanted to be a dps player, I'd roll dps. I contribute when it's possible but I'm not going to get into this nonsense that every second has to be casting something.

A warning while healing in cleric stance would be nice. Happens everytime I stance dance.

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Originally Posted by Atomicstorm

I'm just about to hit 60 and in all my dungeon crawls, I've never been in a situation that is described where there isn't anything to do. Someone always needs heals or a shield. Soon as I click cleric stance, I have to turn it off to heal.

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Oddly enough it only gets easier from there. The Vault at level 58 is probably one of the most healing intensive dungeons in the game, and a good number of the level 60 ones are ridiculously easy (Hi, Pharos Sirius Hard). In fact the only level 60 dungeon that I would say can be hard to heal is the Arboretum. The rest are "I never have to drop clerics stance" easy if you know what you are doing especially with a good tank

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Originally Posted by Supersun

Oddly enough it only gets easier from there. The Vault at level 58 is probably one of the most healing intensive dungeons in the game, and a good number of the level 60 ones are ridiculously easy (Hi, Pharos Sirius Hard). In fact the only level 60 dungeon that I would say can be hard to heal is the Arboretum. The rest are "I never have to drop clerics stance" easy if you know what you are doing especially with a good tank

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I always found that really strange. Even a minimum ilevel, stuff just doesn't hit as hard as the leveling HW dungeons. Of course there's other mechanics that make end game encounters harder, but it feels strange to have a couple of trash mobs in Dusk Vigil hitting you harder than a primal.

i know alot of healers that they just heal and some do try to dps but any damage from healers helps out alot imo even if its DoTs here and there

I make it an effort to assist the party as best I can with the tools I am given for the class I queued as. I would never forsake tools in my kit for a notion as silly as "Why should I have to? It's not my job."

Welcome to teamwork! ABC's, Always Be Casting. If you have time to stand there and do nothing while everyone is topped off, you have time to DPS and improve your group as a whole.

The way i rate "combat" healer just for fun =D
1. Just heal no dps at all.... 70% what i got from DF
2. Dps but no CS dancing.... D-
3. CS but only apply dot.... C+
4. CS on, dot and single target.... Solid B
5. CS, dot, single target, aoe.... A- "one happy tank"
6. Everything point 5 + 100% utility uptime (swiftcast, time dilation, presence of mind, etc).... A+ /thumbsup <healer> "Friend pls? =D"

I really like healer (techinally all class not just healer) who are not "saving" their utility only for boss fight, those atk buff, barrage, power surge, etc... Basically that 60+ CD skill for the love of all use it, by the time we finish 2 wave of mobs it will be ready again.

These forums need to stop.

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote, but the context is completely wrong. I came back to FFXIV after almost a two year break(best gear in game was ilvl 70/80?) My very first dungeon the tank pulls massive amounts of adds. I barely keep him alive. After it's done (very first pull) he calls me out. Telling me to dps more.

What you are writing about is eventually true. Healers should help do damage if they can afford it, but they need to make that choice. The mentality you are creating is idiocy.

Don't be an elitist. Don't make this game toxic. Healers will come to that conclusion naturally, and it's important they do. Forcing them to take risks, making them feel inadequate and possibly forcing wipes before they are confident isn't a good thing. And you might say you didn't mean for this to target new people- but it does.

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Originally Posted by RizenSaga

These forums need to stop.

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote, but the context is completely wrong. I came back to FFXIV after almost a two year break(best gear in game was ilvl 70/80?) My very first dungeon the tank pulls massive amounts of adds. I barely keep him alive. After it's done (very first pull) he calls me out. Telling me to dps more.

What you are writing about is eventually true. Healers should help do damage if they can afford it, but they need to make that choice. The mentality you are creating is idiocy.

Don't be an elitist. Don't make this game toxic. Healers will come to that conclusion naturally, and it's important they do. Forcing them to take risks, making them feel inadequate and possibly forcing wipes before they are confident isn't a good thing. And you might say you didn't mean for this to target new people- but it does.

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Believe it or not, the issue is not whether when the healer will realize their ability to do more. The problem is if they are even willing to do more.

The tolerance of an "elitist" towards a player who is GENUINELY making attempts at improving is basically infinite. You can wipe all you want, I don't mind. Infact, I'll even communicate with you some ideas on what you can do thus not only improving your skill, but the quality of the playerbase and the experience as a whole.

The tolerance is low when we encounter the people who do NOT make an effort and hide behind excuses like, "I'm a healer, I only heal" to justify their frankly sub-optimal play.

It's not the inexperienced, it's the willingly lazy ones that are a plague to our game. Just as you would prefer a DPS or tank that makes an attempt to execute a GCD every chance they get, so you would a healer.

My reply doesn't seem to be working.
What i'm trying to say is that knowledge without wisdom isn't a good thing. We have a fact Healers should do damage. It makes party kill faster.

This fact without wisdom gets repeated by idiots. You can't say one fact have zero math/context. That's lazier than the healers not doing damage.

Now i'm saying that context is needed. Party composition, tank/healer skill, and DD DPS output are all variables. If I have two Black mages in my party and the tank pulls huge pulls I know I might need to spam heals and the black mages will do more damage than i could of. If I have two dragoons in my party the tank might have to keep the pulls smaller and I will be free to dps and heal.

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Originally Posted by RizenSaga

These forums need to stop.

What you are writing about is eventually true. Healers should help do damage if they can afford it, but they need to make that choice. The mentality you are creating is idiocy.

Don't be an elitist. Don't make this game toxic. Healers will come to that conclusion naturally, and it's important they do.

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I strongly disagree. These threads(not forums) need to stay alive because it is an important topic about gameplay.

1. This thread isn't telling healers to always DPS. It isn't about times when you have to be healing 100% of the time, or when you have a squish tank or you are new to content. This about being effective and efficient when you have down time and are comfortable with the tank and content. I don't understand why people come into these threads and say stuff like "the healer needs to make that choice" and/or "they should only damage if they can afford to". When literally the OP and most people who are Pro-DPS always make sure to state this fact. Because we KNOW we are healers, not DPS, and healing comes first. Again this is about when you have downtime and that instead of doing nothing you should be doing something.

2. If you are blaming threads like this for people telling you to DPS more when you had a hard time keeping the tank alive then that in itself is idiocy.

3. In no way is this thread, or threads like it, trying to spread toxicity throughout the game or be "elitist". No one is telling players too call out and harass healers who do nothing but heal (and if they are they should be reported) because, again, it is their choice what to do. Trying to help someone be more efficient and effective is not toxic. Its also important for players to try and understand why others play the way they do. Even if it annoys them or they think they are playing sub-optimally.

4. Sadly many healers do not learn this. There have been countless times that I have encountered healers who completely ignore their damage spells unless they are soloing. There are also tons who do not use/hotkey/crossclass Cleric Stance. I have also met many who remove older healing spells (ie. no Cure or Cure II just Cure III) because they don't read and don't take the time to understand their spells. Yes, this is kind of off topic, but I am using it to make a point: there are healers who don't take it upon themselves to learn how to play their class, and while they can do this if they want it isn't effective or efficient.

5. Honestly, it would be good for new players to see this. Watching a Healer (or Tank or DPS) stand around and/or not use 80% of their kit is, frankly, irritating as hell.

IMO
Our role (yes, I'm a healer) is to heal. So what is really important is to maintain party members alive. Healers aren't obligated to DPS, but if you feel comfortable and can manage healing time well, you can help with some damage. It really piss me off when I hear people complaining about healers not DPSing. Man, if we wanted to DPS we would change to a DPS Role. If the DPSs aren't dealing enough damage, so they need to review their rotation, geras, or anything that is letting it down, and not blame healers for not doing what they were supposed to do.
When I go to a DG/Raid/Trial for the first time, I never DPS, because I need to learn the timing and mechanics of the battle. If I get used to the battle and it isn't a hard constant-healing MP-sucking battle, I DPS if possible. Otherwise I prefer to do my role the best way I can and do what the job has to do.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

I strongly disagree. These threads(not forums) need to stay alive because it is an important topic about gameplay...

4. Sadly many healers do not learn this. There have been countless times that I have encountered healers who completely ignore their damage spells unless they are soloing. There are also tons who do not use/hotkey/crossclass Cleric Stance. I have also met many who remove older healing spells (ie. no Cure or Cure II just Cure III) because they don't read and don't take the time to understand their spells. Yes, this is kind of off topic, but I am using it to make a point: there are healers who don't take it upon themselves to learn how to play their class, and while they can do this if they want it isn't effective or efficient...

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I think the frustration comes from the fact it's the same question each time and the answer is the same. Where people get into arguments is they don't like how some justify the use of their time as a healer. You get people who get upset and mad going "Well when I heal..." making that person feel lesser. Then it's just natural that person gets defensive and thinks up their ways of justifying what they do. When in reality, even though it is part of our skill set not everyone always gets down to that level of priority for one reason or another.

People use themselves as an example but make it sound like their way is the staple. For example, one other topic was about cleric stance going away. That person felt it was useless because they've never let anyone die due to them being in DPS stance so it made no difference on their play style and should be removed. While that's great they fail to see the others views and take in the pros / cons of each situation. If you couldn't do what they did then you were a bad player. This makes that person one sided and at that point you can't communicate to them.

Though your 4th point, is actually more of what we need. Macros, new players on how to set up cross bars, helpful HUD set ups. These things are much more helpful now that we know what the answer is the entire DPS / Cleric Stance question / concerns.

Then again, if people believe it's really helpful. Then..continue to make them. Now that you mention it I think I'm going to go look up some new HUD and maybe try to re-think a few of my healing setup macros and crossbars to make my healing life a bit more fluid! Good luck to all you healers out there!

It's not mandatory but as a mentor who tanks and dps I can tell 85% of most players get frustrated when the battles are for example easy mobs and healers don't DPS. If your standing there not healing or doting yes it gets on peoples nerves and recommend to do so to help a bit and you don't get too bored of not doing anything but healing. In raids, trials, and bosses by own means is up to you. Temple of the Dead, unless your focusing on 0 ko's for new floors we don't want you dpsing. All an all it depends on how you want to play your role. As a mentor I can say people out there lack common sense and want people to be at their pace. Just worry about enjoying the game and believe me tehre will always be groups who take on healers who just want to heal.

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Originally Posted by Blazinhart

IMO
Our role (yes, I'm a healer) is to heal. So what is really important is to maintain party members alive. Healers aren't obligated to DPS, but if you feel comfortable and can manage healing time well, you can help with some damage. It really piss me off when I hear people complaining about healers not DPSing. Man, if we wanted to DPS we would change to a DPS Role. If the DPSs aren't dealing enough damage, so they need to review their rotation, geras, or anything that is letting it down, and not blame healers for not doing what they were supposed to do.
When I go to a DG/Raid/Trial for the first time, I never DPS, because I need to learn the timing and mechanics of the battle. If I get used to the battle and it isn't a hard constant-healing MP-sucking battle, I DPS if possible. Otherwise I prefer to do my role the best way I can and do what the job has to do.

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At the moment there is just far too much downtime with healing. I've gotten into the habit of DPSing just to pass the long periods of time where people just don't need healing. Honestly rather than continuing this DPS meta focus, I wish SE would adjust how outgoing damage is so that there is more of a constant need for healers to heal and also for tanks to worry more about survival and aggro than dps. But egh, I'm currently resigned to this because I don't foresee SE doing such an overhaul to their fight setups.

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Originally Posted by Blazinhart

IMO
Our role (yes, I'm a healer) is to heal. So what is really important is to maintain party members alive. Healers aren't obligated to DPS, but if you feel comfortable and can manage healing time well, you can help with some damage. It really piss me off when I hear people complaining about healers not DPSing. Man, if we wanted to DPS we would change to a DPS Role. If the DPSs aren't dealing enough damage, so they need to review their rotation, geras, or anything that is letting it down, and not blame healers for not doing what they were supposed to do.
When I go to a DG/Raid/Trial for the first time, I never DPS, because I need to learn the timing and mechanics of the battle. If I get used to the battle and it isn't a hard constant-healing MP-sucking battle, I DPS if possible. Otherwise I prefer to do my role the best way I can and do what the job has to do.

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Honestly, that way of learning a fight is the least optimal way to learn a fight. If you don't learn by using all your kit, it's going to take you way longer to actually learn the fight. Your way would be like a Nin only using the AE combo until he learned the mechanics. It's just bad play at the end of the day. And for some reason, it's only okay for Healers to be bad.

CS. It's a single 5 second cooldown. And you have Swiftcast/Rez for the times you really blow it. There's zero excuses to actually not use it, besides your own irrational fear of failure.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

CS. It's a single 5 second cooldown. And you have Swiftcast/Rez for the times you really blow it. There's zero excuses to actually not use it, besides your own irrational fear of failure.

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Let's not forget that all healing jobs also have abilities that heal the same regardless if CS is up or not. There's also mitigation tools that can used while in CS, as well as the ability to apply HoTs on the tank before entering CS.

Healer's have so many options that just make CS such a useful tool that is foolish to ignore it (if you actually care to git gud).

I wasn't planning on chiming in on this debate. As my opinion has been stated already, and probably far better by others. Personally, I'm firmly on the dps whenever you can side of things. However, it's really been bothering me how some are being so dismissive of others points of view. And I also think there are some factors here that aren't taken into account enough.

For one thing, I see the complaint all over the forums, about content being too easy, not enough damage to heal. Healers are bored, bored, bored. "SE, fix it!" It seems to me though, that these complaints are often coming from people who overgear said content. Of course it's going to seem easy to them. Of course they're going to have plenty of time to dps. Outside of no cd using tanks and aoe eating dps parties, of course. ;P However, to those closer to the minimum ilvl, they have less opportunity to be bored. They're going to be healing much more, and dpsing less. I don't think anyone would argue that this makes perfect sense, yes?

But now, we have tanks and dps perhaps noting that the healer in their group isn't dpsing as much as some they have seen, and they think "Aha! One of these lazy, slacker healers, trying to get away with being carried! Not in My group you don't!" And they call out said healer, to varying degrees of insulting. When in fact, that healer did nothing wrong, and was doing their best to keep the party alive, and fit in some dps when they felt safe to do so.

This, is where this healer dps meta, and the pressure on healers that if they don't dps they automatically suck, is a problem. Because you have people in other roles, who have never played a healer, know nothing about what it's like, but yet feel that they have a perfect right to judge a healers performance and harass them for it. Not taking into account the difference in gear and quite probably skill levels, between the healer they are harassing, and the godlike healers they're comparing them to, and finding them lacking.

I know this is idealistic and horribly naive, and also will never happen, but it would be nice if at least among the healer player community we tried to be a little more understanding, objective, and less inclined to trot out statements like "git gud".

One last thing in this horribly long post lol, don't misunderstand me. I am not in any way excusing those who truly are simply being lazy (jumping, emoting healers, I'm looking at you >.<). I'm just asking people to take into account all the factors and possible circumstances before making judgements.

SE designed this game in a way that everyone (healers included) have to dps

/end of thread

I just find that people take things way too personally most of time, and it's best to just leave them be.

I mean, I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to healing related issues because my extent of knowledge when it comes to heals is pretty much "make HP go up=good." But if I see a healer standing there for what amounts to literal chunks of time without doing anything, I'll admit I get annoyed. I'll perhaps ask if they could possibly help push dps if they don't mind and if they respond with "im not really that comfortable, still learning,"'etc then absolutely no problem at all. Tanking isn't my main, so I understand. But usually what I get in response is, "excuse me, play your own class,mind your business," etc...

...and then of course I have to be a child and forget how to use my CDs effectively. They only want to heal, right? Let them eat cake.

I'm just going to reiterate, in case there is any confusion out there, that healer DPS is not a phenomenon born exclusively of everyone being overgeared for content. Players have been successfully contributing DPS from the healer role regardless of ilvl since the beginning.

It's true that increased ilvl relative to content difficulty makes it easier for everyone to play more aggressively, but it's a huge oversimplification to suggest that healers DPS simply because they are overgeared and bored. Skilled players look for opportunities to do more and play better, and this is an obvious way that healers of all ilvls do that.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

SE designed this game in a way that everyone (healers included) have to dps

/end of thread

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I think you mean everyone (as a healer ) has the option to dps not that they have to dps. >.>

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

I think you mean everyone (as a healer ) has the option to dps not that they have to dps. >.>

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If you're raiding, you have to.

If you're not raiding, you have to dps too because there is not any healer check on the normal content.
If you're not, that just mean you're waiting something to happen and that's... Well if you wanna slack, do it, but not with 3/7 persons.

I'm in agreement with healers doing damage. In my early days of ffxiv I was often asked to stop doing damage because healers are supposed to heal, and party members found it really uncomfortable that I wasn't 100% hovering ready to heal them.

My argument is simply that this thread doesn't give people the knowledge how to heal and do damage. It just says they should and that's truly not helpful because you're assuming everyone is intelligent enough to figure out how and when they should dps, yet calling people out for not being aware and not understanding their skills. You can't tell a four year old they need to learn how to read and write and not teach them.

I'd say a quite a few people take other peoples beliefs and use them as their own. Lots of people don't do the work, don't do the math, they just take someone seemingly smarter then themselves opinion as fact and throw it around as truth. These people read these forums, they agree slightly and make the belief their own.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

If you're raiding, you have to.

If you're not raiding, you have to dps too because there is not any healer check on the normal content.
If you're not, that just mean you're waiting something to happen and that's... Well if you wanna slack, do it, but not with 3/7 persons.

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Correct big IF your raiding. Unless they are hardcore types rare your seeing them not dpsing, if spouts best to guide them the path of yes you want to dps also. Hence my first posting. In legacy servers you see many healers dps. However too many sprouts now a days giving dps healers a bad rep unfortunately. SE made it to give players an option. Not set in stone that they MUST dps. It helps yet over all depends on the player type. New , casual, hardcore and of course the ever so popular troll. I agree it would be nice for healers to DPS and as a mentor I do recommend to do so, however you can't force it on a person if they just want to have heal all we can do is advice them that for certain content it is a must.

We can't force them to dps, but we certainly don't have to tolerate them under-performing. DPS can't sit still for a prolonged period if time, they're expected to perform 100% of the instance, not 75% and get to stare at health bars for the remainder 25%.

We'd never tolerate a tank just spamming flash, why are we forced to tolerate a healer who simply doesn't want to contribute 100% by using their full skill set?

If a healer is in EXPERT roulette, they should be utilizing their full skill set, if not I'll just spam flash as a tank and keep enough or just auto-attack as a dps and not avoid AoEs I'm under no strick obligation to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

We can't force them to dps, but we certainly don't have to tolerate them under-performing. DPS can't sit still for a prolonged period if time, they're expected to perform 100% of the instance, not 75% and get to stare at health bars for the remainder 25%.

We'd never tolerate a tank just spamming flash, why are we forced to tolerate a healer who simply doesn't want to contribute 100% by using their full skill set?



If a healer is in EXPERT roulette, they should be utilizing their full skill set, if not I'll just spam flash as a tank and keep enough or just auto-attack as a dps and not avoid AoEs I'm under no strick obligation to avoid.

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True, sometimes, depending on servers healers can be rare when kicking one out. I rather have a healer than no healer as long as min is healing properly just to finish up. In raids or any endgame yeah I wouldn't tolerate that.

Oh no no no, I'm not saying I'd ever kick a healer for not dpsing, no way.

What I am saying is that what's good for the geese is good for the gander. Ill mimic their playstyle and contribute the absolute minimum required of my role to show them how absurd they're being. (this is all dependent upon many factors such as are they a sprout? First time in dungeon? Healing>DPS but just standing there when party is 100% hp is nonsense)

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Originally Posted by RizenSaga

I'm in agreement with healers doing damage. In my early days of ffxiv I was often asked to stop doing damage because healers are supposed to heal, and party members found it really uncomfortable that I wasn't 100% hovering ready to heal them.

My argument is simply that this thread doesn't give people the knowledge how to heal and do damage.

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I understand where you're coming from. I agree that it may be difficult for players to understand the "how" by reading this thread.

In the spirit of cooperation, let's try a brief explanation/suggestion post for players who are interested in using their full kit, yet not sure how...

- Know the encounters in the duties so that you know which mob abilities to watch out for. This way you won't be caught in CS right when a big hit goes out.

- Recognize tank cooldowns and know that, if there are lots of baddies still alive when they wear off, your tank will suddenly hurt much more.

- Know what is likely to kill your team and what can be tolerated. You don't need to wait out of CS just in case a DPS gets a boo-boo from an infrequent, non-lethal AoE. If they stand in multiple overlapping AoEs while getting blasted by a raid-wide AoE, that goes beyond what you are reasonably expected to fix.

- Weave in and out of CS as necessary until it becomes second nature. You'll often want to cast your regens and shielding immediately before changing stances so that you can apply at least one round of DPS comfortably.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm just going to reiterate, in case there is any confusion out there, that healer DPS is not a phenomenon born exclusively of everyone being overgeared for content. Players have been successfully contributing DPS from the healer role regardless of ilvl since the beginning.

It's true that increased ilvl relative to content difficulty makes it easier for everyone to play more aggressively, but it's a huge oversimplification to suggest that healers DPS simply because they are overgeared and bored. Skilled players look for opportunities to do more and play better, and this is an obvious way that healers of all ilvls do that.

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It actually wasn't my intention to imply that boredom is the origin or only/main reason for healers dpsing. I was just trying to point out the difference in what a player might be capable of depending on gear lvl. It seems to me, and I could certainly be wrong! that much as people forget what it was like to be a newbie, they forget how the ease of content and your role in it, is very different if you overgear it, compared to just barely qualifying for it. And that point, led into the point that people tend to judge players in a role, based on the best and worst examples of such players that they've encountered. And often, imo anyway, it's an unfair judgement. Regardless, this is actually a side issue to the thread. My bad. ;)

Belated reply to the OP - Yes, it clearly is part of a healers role to contribute to dps. I knew this before I even started leveling one, and made it a point to practice stance dancing As I leveled, knowing that dpsing was going to be expected of me. There were times I hated it, and many times I thought I'd never truly get used to it. But now? It's such a natural part of the role to me that I literally can't imagine being one of those healers who just stands around, waiting for the tank/group to take damage. However, I do understand and can sympathize with where the other side of this debate is coming from.

When leveling my WHM I was kicked for both DPSing and for not DPSing at different points. Really you can't please everybody, so just do what you feel you can. For me I've found that DPSing is a good option for stalemate parts of instances where everyone is really not taking much damage at all, so a regen will keep them up while I DPS as much as possible.

Also Benediction is a great asset for WHM considering that it will work to full effect even while under cleric stance. Love the panic button.

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Originally Posted by Raven_Darkstar

snip.

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I understood where you were coming from, but your comment did make me think about less nuanced replies in that vein made by other posters. That's why I commented without quoting you; I didn't want it seem as if I were criticizing you or calling you out.

Anyway, I do sympathize with players who feel the shock of a sudden expectation to significantly change their approach to the role. I think some players have never made the initial adjustment from solo questing mode to fully functional party play.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

SE designed this game in a way that everyone (healers included) have to dps

/end of thread

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https://puu.sh/s9orW/f2ed4cf975.png

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Originally Posted by Arrius

https://puu.sh/s9orW/f2ed4cf975.png

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Slackers :s

What a nightmare !

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

I think you mean everyone (as a healer ) has the option to dps not that they have to dps. >.>

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And every dps has the option to stand in AoEs or in front of cleaving bosses and the option to either do 800 or 1800 dps.
And every tank has the option to use CDs and the option to do unnecessarily small pulls. They have also the option to wait 2-3 mins for all their def. CDs come up again before pulling the next 2 mobs or even 6 minutes between every pull for hallowed ground.

Options are fun.

You have the option to play good or bad. If you use the 'option' to play bad, others have the option to kick you.


1) Caster mantra: Always Be Casting.
2) Healer mantra: Keep your party alive, but don't overheal.
3) Practise until you fulfill those requirements.

That's all.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

1) Caster mantra: Always Be Casting.
2) Healer mantra: Keep your party alive, but don't overheal.
3) Practise until you fulfill those requirements.

That's all.

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But, but.... UYBHSATT!

Honestly, I'd welcome more healers (if I'm not the healer myself) actually doing their primary job instead of playing graba$$ trying to be a Twitch/YouTube celebrity or trying to get recognized on XIVLogs. Either as a Summoner or a Black Mage, I will eventually get clipped by something due to casters ALWAYS being targeted (Especially when Enochian's in effect). I don't need a DPS disguised as a healer eyeing their stats while I'm looking to recover from another Prey mechanic that also seems to target casters. Maybe SE should consider giving BLM Drain in the 61-70 range considering there's little enough help coming from healers trying to outperform actual casters.

*Sorry about that partial digression. A12 mechanics are making me crazy as a caster.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Honestly, I'd welcome more healers (if I'm not the healer myself) actually doing their primary job instead of playing graba$$ trying to be a Twitch/YouTube celebrity or trying to get recognized on XIVLogs. Either as a Summoner or a Black Mage, I will eventually get clipped by something due to casters ALWAYS being targeted (Especially when Enochian's in effect). I don't need a DPS disguised as a healer eyeing their stats while I'm looking to recover from another Prey mechanic that also seems to target casters. Maybe SE should consider giving BLM Drain in the 61-70 range considering there's little enough help coming from healers trying to outperform actual casters.

*Sorry about that partial digression. A12 mechanics are making me crazy as a caster.

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I hear you, but that doesn't have anything specifically to do with healers and their hotly debated (for a few people, anyway) obligation to help the other two roles kill things as they're able. Good healers know how and when to use all of their tools.

What you describe is just players being bad.

I'm a fresh 60 WHM and am uncomfortable stance dancing in current content. It seemed like every time I went into CS, something happened and I have to click out of it to heal or try to click out of it and it screws up and I'm sitting there healing in CS wondering why people are dying :( Lower level content is fine, especially in leveling roulettes. I try to dps a little in 50 Roulettes, but often times, the tanks are doing huge pulls and I'm focusing on trying to keep everyone up.

I don't have 60 Roulettes open yet and find I'm super uncomfortable even trying to DPS in CS in 60 dungeons. I know it's not much, but I do at least put up my dot and throw out a couple of stones or holy even when not in CS. I'd like some advice on how to get better at stance dancing. I'm a firm believer in ABC as well, but stance dancing is just very intimidating to me at the moment.

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Originally Posted by lvillanueva5

I'm a fresh 60 WHM and am uncomfortable stance dancing in current content. It seemed like every time I went into CS, something happened and I have to click out of it to heal or try to click out of it and it screws up and I'm sitting there healing in CS wondering why people are dying :( Lower level content is fine, especially in leveling roulettes. I try to dps a little in 50 Roulettes, but often times, the tanks are doing huge pulls and I'm focusing on trying to keep everyone up.

I don't have 60 Roulettes open yet and find I'm super uncomfortable even trying to DPS in CS in 60 dungeons. I know it's not much, but I do at least put up my dot and throw out a couple of stones or holy even when not in CS. I'd like some advice on how to get better at stance dancing. I'm a firm believer in ABC as well, but stance dancing is just very intimidating to me at the moment.

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What you describe is completely normal. It's natural to be uncomfortable with stance-dancing at first.

Some suggestions:

1. Learning your duties, key mob abilities, boss encounters, etc. helps so much. There are truly very few surprises in the game that are not directly attributable to player error. Even when error is the issue, knowing the encounter helps you anticipate what sorts of mistakes your fellow players are likely to make and how bad they will be (e.g. if failing a mechanic or standing in a certain AoE might lead to death, you will know to be on your guard; if the consequence of failure is a boo-boo, you know that no one is going die from it even you just changed to CS and need a few seconds to swap back and top them off).

2. Observe your tank's gear, overall HP, and CD usage. If your tank drops like a rock from a normal pull, you know that opportunities to DPS may be limited and difficult to secure, and that's really okay. Especially as WHM, don't pressure yourself to commit to DPS rotations if your team honestly needs more healing than they should. Also be aware that most tanks pop their CDs early in an encounter, and if there happen to be hard-hitting mobs that appear while most of their defensive abilities are down, they might need more help from you.

3. The easiest time to DPS for at least the cooldown of Cleric Stance is immediately after you've applied regen and/or mitigation abilities to your topped-off tank. You can usually do quite a bit when your tank has a fresh Divine Seal Regen and is able to stay more or less inside your Asylum.

4. Remember that you have Benediction and that saving it for an emergency that A) might never come and B) might not even be salvageable is not the best way to get use out of it. Benediction can be used strategically to help you contribute DPS at key moments without interruption, and it can also be your failsafe while you are learning when and for how long you can safely DPS. I found that having Benediction on a mouseover macro is incredibly convenient, and this way I actually use it instead of letting it constantly go to waste.

5. The more you practice, the more natural it will be to swap your stances. You'll find yourself toggling CS on and off constantly in most groups.

6. Don't compare yourself directly to SCH. It's not that you can't contribute great DPS and stance dance effectively, but it's easiest for SCH because of how their kits work. Even a mediocre SCH should be able to put out some damage without getting anyone killed, but I feel that effective DPS as WHM (and AST, for that matter) has a slightly higher skill floor.

One way to learn it is to see it in action. You can try go in dungeon with different roles if you have, and see how your friend (pro) WHM do stance dancing. WHM is my favorite job when speed run dungeon. Also don't be discouraged, when you get better gears and get more experience it will be easier and easier. I found a video on youtube about a WHM dps in anti tower, might give you an idea or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgMg3o6vsIw

Want to point out somethings:
1/ don't spam cleric button more than 1, it often will turn off CS just to turn it on right away. It happens a lot if you have laggy connection too. Just don't be panic and spam that button.
2/ holy give stun, if you can land the first holy you have 5 sec you don't have to heal. Keep chain-casting holy is one of the way you can dps while keeping the tank alive :) Just don't go out of mana xD
3/ pop that divine seal :D at every trash pull!

Good luck and have fun with stance dancing.