The new concept screenshot is a real-time in-game render!

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Originally Posted by Dragon

The only thing that can possibly stop PS3 users from using addons are memory issues, that's it. The PS3 has native keyboard/mouse support from USB-wired to USB-wireless to anything Bluetooth. There is almost nothing stopping a game from being played on a PS3 as it'd be played on a PC.

With that said, I hope they do require an approval process for any custom UI.

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There might be issues regarding SCE approval too. Plus, all add-ons for gamepad users must be pretty much developed specifically for them.

Since there is technically no reason it couldn't be done, I hope that SE can make it happen one day.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

The only add-ins I ran were the ones my guild "required" and I left the UI for all of them off when I played. I only had them installed so a "check" would show that I had it...
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I will always argue that people who believe that add-ins are required to perform suffer from a severe intellectual deficiency.

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I don't mean to be snarky or anything, but.. yet you played with a guild demanded you have them? Why else would they "require" them unless people who would be a big part of your time with that guild believed 'add-ins are required to perform'?

Just the idea of a Free Company having demands like that makes me feel uncomfortable. I mean, not least because of the privacy issues around players being able to run checks on my client.. Even if it is only to look for certain add-ons, it seems pretty rude.

Still, I doubt I'll be using them to any great extent, especially given I prefer my UI be as spartan as possible. Anyone demands I operate them probably isn't someone I want anything to do with anyway.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

There might be issues regarding SCE approval too. Plus, all add-ons for gamepad users must be pretty much developed specifically for them.

Since there is technically no reason it couldn't be done, I hope that SE can make it happen one day.

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In a recent interview Yoshi said that he would be porting over the more popular, and requested add ons for ps3

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I just can't imagine how PS3 users will get to benefit from custom UI at all. What SE should do is make it where you'd have to submit a UI first, and then they can approve it and make it available for download through PSN and PC for others to use. I'm not sure how else this would work out for PS3 users.

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I HIGHLY doubt they'll allow any sort of add-ons for the ps3. They're making two different UI's for that specific reason.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

In a recent interview Yoshi said that he would be porting over the more popular, and requested add ons for ps3

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I want to see this actually happen lol.

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Originally Posted by Zion_Cross

I want to see this actually happen lol.

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i want to see glorified primal summonings that change weather of the entire zone, and chocobo battles happen, but thats more unlikely than this. Yoshi has been pretty good on his word so far on catering to the community.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

i want to see glorified primal summonings that change weather of the entire zone, and chocobo battles happen, but thats more unlikely than this. Yoshi has been pretty good on his word so far on catering to the community.

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Kind of off topic, but I wonder how many people could hold that trump card of summoning ifrit at a time on the server. I can't imagine 5+ people summoning ifrit for example and making the server crash.

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Originally Posted by Zion_Cross

Kind of off topic, but I wonder how many people could hold that trump card of summoning ifrit at a time on the server. I can't imagine 5+ people summoning ifrit for example and making the server crash.

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It's one free company at a time.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

That is what I am concerned about. If the UI Customization is only for the aesthetics, then I don't think that will become much of a problem. If it is used for the coding aspects, then something is seriously wrong. :P

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I agree. UI customisation in essence is a good thing, but not, if it's being abused by showing informations that others can't/shouldn't see. Say what you want about the 'need' to see certain things on the UI for the raid's sake. If you can't beat a dungeon without it, then it's either the developer or you/ your party, who's at fault.

I also don't understand the need of knowing literally everything about every single 100111100100 in the coding of MMOs. But then again, I'm just a mid-core gamer, as Yoshi put it. ;)

Oh, well. That's just my personal opinion, which is as valid as anyone's. :D

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I agree. UI customisation in essence is a good thing, but not, if it's being abused by showing informations that others can't/shouldn't see. Say what you want about the 'need' to see certain things on the UI for the raid's sake. If you can't beat a dungeon without it, then it's either the developer or you/ your party, who's at fault.

I also don't understand the need of knowing literally everything about every single 100111100100 in the coding of MMOs. But then again, I'm just a mid-core gamer, as Yoshi put it. ;)

Oh, well. That's just my personal opinion, which is as valid as anyone's. :D

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Casual and hardcore use addon but that not the point i still don't understand why people can't be a tank or a healer without a pop or sound saying someone else have hate i could understand in wow where there lot's of people around while fighting and it get crazy but in FFXIV i think it would never be needed only if your lazy and can't play a mmo without addon.

I know myself wont be using any addon maybe the one i like from ffxi windower display how much EXP i'm getting. The only reason i hate addons is in wow to do anything like raids they make you download addon A,B,C / D to even do there events i hope that never happen in ffxiv if it does then w/e i play my way and learn how to play the game without using addon i did it in wow and in ffxi i can do it in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Casual and hardcore use addon but that not the point i still don't understand why people can't be a tank or a healer without a pop or sound saying someone else have hate i could understand in wow where there lot's of people around while fighting and it get crazy but in FFXIV i think it would never be needed only if your lazy and can't play a mmo without addon.

I know myself wont be using any addon maybe the one i like from ffxi windower display how much EXP i'm getting. The only reason i hate addons is in wow to do anything like raids they make you download addon A,B,C / D to even do there events i hope that never happen in ffxiv if it does then w/e i play my way and learn how to play the game without using addon i did it in wow and in ffxi i can do it in ffxiv.

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Addons are just a crutch for those lacking skill and intuition.

In Call of Duty, if you use an aimbot it's called hacking because it automates the entire skillset the gameplay is based on.

In FFXIV, if players use addons which automate the skill-set of the gameplay, then that too should be deemed "hacking".

There is a difference between a helpful UI and something that plays the game for you, and sometimes I think addons cross that line.

The dev team should be the only people that get to define the skillset of the game. Addons/hacks which automate that skillset should not be allowed.

Customising the layout should be the only thing that is allowed.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Addons are just a crutch for those lacking skill and intuition.

In Call of Duty, if you use an aimbot it's called hacking because it automates the entire skillset the gameplay is based on.

In FFXIV, if players use addons which automate the skill-set of the gameplay, then that too should be deemed "hacking".

There is a difference between a helpful UI and something that plays the game for you, and sometimes I think addons cross that line.

The dev team should be the only people that get to define the skillset of the game. Addons/hacks which automate that skillset should not be allowed.

Customising the layout should be the only thing that is allowed.

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I agree with you 100% i can care less about addon as long as other players don't make me download something just to do a endgame event i'm fine with the idea having addon. I for one be switching over too a addon Ui that does not look like that in that picture Something like FFXI with a big chat window like i have my ffxiv right now would be fine play 6year i dislike having small chat :).

Let's hope SE would ban and not allow addon that does stuff for you opening addon people could easy make addon to bot Mobs and other stuff and may take sometime to even ban that type of addon not if they have a system set up for that type of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

I don't mean to be snarky or anything, but.. yet you played with a guild demanded you have them? Why else would they "require" them unless people who would be a big part of your time with that guild believed 'add-ins are required to perform'?

Just the idea of a Free Company having demands like that makes me feel uncomfortable. I mean, not least because of the privacy issues around players being able to run checks on my client.. Even if it is only to look for certain add-ons, it seems pretty rude.

Still, I doubt I'll be using them to any great extent, especially given I prefer my UI be as spartan as possible. Anyone demands I operate them probably isn't someone I want anything to do with anyway.

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It's the reason I hate Add-on enabled games -- some become "required" or "can't play the game without" which sucks the fun out of any MMORPG, especially considering how gungho about "freedom" people seem to be.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It's the reason I hate Add-on enabled games -- some become "required" or "can't play the game without" which sucks the fun out of any MMORPG, especially considering how gungho about "freedom" people seem to be.

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I agree the most i hate would be Ilvl and DPS score if that become a big hit i'm going to hate FFXIV. Ilvl:645 Dragoon do you need it? DPS:1.5K -.- oh i can see it happening hope not tho really hoping.

Personally, I won't be using them. Anyone that thinks they can demand that I do can suck it.

Don't play with those people? It's that simple. Either that or you don't want to get revealed as being a leech trying to get carried. I'm talking about the kind that drags the entire group down.

I would really like to see where these addons that play for you are. All they do is give you more information up front that you would otherwise be staring at the combat log for instead of playing. It's like complaining the use of Ventrilo should be banned because you don't want to use it and that it gives those who do an advantage in communication.

Haivng control over the efficiency of my UI makes playing the game itself more enjoyable when I don't have to fight with anything else to play unlike the current incarnation.

http://i.imgur.com/uBPRy.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Don't play with those people? It's that simple. Either that or you don't want to get revealed as being a leech trying to get carried. I'm talking about the kind that drags the entire group down.

I would really like to see where these addons that play for you are. All they do is give you more information up front that you would otherwise be staring at the combat log for instead of playing. It's like complaining the use of Ventrilo should be banned because you don't want to use it and that it gives those who do an advantage in communication.

Haivng control over the efficiency of my UI makes playing the game itself more enjoyable when I don't have to fight with anything else to play unlike the current incarnation.

http://i.imgur.com/uBPRy.jpg

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That is an awesome UI. What unit frames are you using? I used to use a few different add-ons to completely customize my UI like that, but I got tired of having to wait a couple days for them to be updated after a new patch, though lately, it's more like a few hours at most so I might give it a shot again.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Don't play with those people? It's that simple. Either that or you don't want to get revealed as being a leech trying to get carried. I'm talking about the kind that drags the entire group down.

I would really like to see where these addons that play for you are. All they do is give you more information up front that you would otherwise be staring at the combat log for instead of playing. It's like complaining the use of Ventrilo should be banned because you don't want to use it and that it gives those who do an advantage in communication.

Haivng control over the efficiency of my UI makes playing the game itself more enjoyable when I don't have to fight with anything else to play unlike the current incarnation.

http://i.imgur.com/uBPRy.jpg

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ya that type of addon that give you info or make thing easy i don't want to be forced to use something just because they tell me too. It's not even about the addon that does something for you it just the overall idea of making you use them. Don't play with those people? i wish it was that easy when something become mainstream you have to use it or you never get a invite but w/e does not really matter i'm not going to use something because they tell me too lol.

As long as no one make a ilvl addon i'll be fine i don't want to see "650score+ do you have it? /tell Level 50 dungeon. If i don't see that i be 100% with addon i play my way they play there way i don't really care much about addon just that one i be piss about.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

ya that type of addon that give you info or make thing easy i don't want to be forced to use something just because they tell me too. It's not even about the addon that does something for you it just the overall idea of making you use them. Don't play with those people? i wish it was that easy when something become mainstream you have to use it or you never get a invite but w/e does not really matter i'm not going to use something because they tell me too lol.

As long as no one make a ilvl addon i'll be fine i don't want to see "650score+ do you have it? /tell Level 50 dungeon. If i don't see that i be 100% with addon i play my way they play there way i don't really care much about addon just that one i be piss about.

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Yeah, i'd rather invite someone and take a quick look at their gear before i give them the boot. I also like to wipe a few times and figure out who's lacking in dps/healing output and then proceed to giving them the boot.

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Originally Posted by Lavani

Yeah, i'd rather invite someone and take a quick look at their gear before i give them the boot. I also like to wipe a few times and figure out who's lacking in dps/healing output and then proceed to giving them the boot.

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In ffxi people with ok gear did there jobs without issue most healers did there job with gimp gear. I for one never had the best gear for my sam and i did over 2.5k WS when i needed too. So sorry it not all about gear as long as you know what you doing and know when to do it gear means noting.

I dislike when someone wont invite a person due to there gear how would they get gear if your endgame linkshell wont invite them? Do everyone have to join a noob endgame linkshell just to get few items then join a real good one?

wiping have noting to do with gear i party with people and wipe you tell them what to do and how to do it and the party goes fine it's when people don't listen is when ppl suck. I can understand in wow but in ffxi or in ffxiv gear matter but not a lot.

Not saying gear means noting it does but sometime skill mean more then gear.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

In ffxi people with ok gear did there jobs without issue most healers did there job with gimp gear. I for one never had the best gear for my sam and i did over 2.5k WS when i needed too. So sorry it not all about gear as long as you know what you doing and know when to do it gear means noting.

I dislike when someone wont invite a person due to there gear how would they get gear if your endgame linkshell wont invite them? Do everyone have to join a noob endgame linkshell just to get few items then join a real good one?

wiping have noting to do with gear i party with people and wipe you tell them what to do and how to do it and the party goes fine it's when people don't listen is when ppl suck. I can understand in wow but in ffxi or in ffxiv gear matter but not a lot.

Not saying gear means noting it does but sometime skill mean more then gear.

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Skill does mean more than gear, now imagine how much better that player can be with optimal gear? I for one don't like the gearscore addon because a lesser geared person can be a better overall player than a well geared person. But I do check people to make sure they have decent gear. Why? Because like you said although skill plays a major role in damage done, the better geared person (assuming equal skill level) will do more damage. Also better gear tends to have more armor/HP so they can survive any type of unavoidable AOE easier overall making the raid group better.

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Originally Posted by Lavani

Skill does mean more than gear, now imagine how much better that player can be with optimal gear? I for one don't like the gearscore addon because a lesser geared person can be a better overall player than a well geared person. But I do check people to make sure they have decent gear. Why? Because like you said although skill plays a major role in damage done, the better geared person (assuming equal skill level) will do more damage. Also better gear tends to have more armor/HP so they can survive any type of unavoidable AOE easier overall making the raid group better.

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ya 100% agree with you but i dislike when ppl get kick for not having good gear even if they have ok gear.

You know the type of player who say best gear or gtfo?

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

ya 100% agree with you but i dislike when ppl get kick for not having good gear even if they have ok gear.

You know the type of player who say best gear or gtfo?

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yeah, that's why I don't like the gearscore addon :B, but hey, i guess everyone can play with those they chose too.

Why are people complaining about addons? I find it funny that people are complaining about how the community uses add-ons and saying it's the add-on's fault.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

Why are people complaining about addons? I find it funny that people are complaining about how the community uses add-ons and saying it's the add-on's fault.

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What i find funny is this
http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...-direction.gif

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

Why are people complaining about addons? I find it funny that people are complaining about how the community uses add-ons and saying it's the add-on's fault.

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It's both but w/e i wont be using addon if i don't want too and ilvl is one addon that would kill the community.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

It's both but w/e i wont be using addon if i don't want too and ilvl is one addon that would kill the community.

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I don't think you understand how ilvl works. Each piece of gear in WoW is given a value which allows the devs to assign specific values of stats. Having ilvl of 333 means you outgear people of an ilvl of 300. It's the average of your equipment. Now, if a raid is designed around people having ilvl 359, then bringing people with ilvl 333 is CARRYING them through content.

The same thing was done in XI, though it wasn't called GS or ilvl. It was called, "You don't have all of the elemental staves as a BLM? Lolno you're not coming." Or, "BLM/SMN? GTFO the group."

People seem to think restrictions are limited to WoW, and that's certainly not the case. Would you bring a SMN/BLM to a healing party in XI when you're fighting an HNM? No. Why? Outside of a limited one healing BP per minute, that SMN isn't going to be able to heal at all, not is /blm useful for SMN at all outside of warp. That's the same reason people don't carry people in low ilvls through raids. For one, you can't even get into raids until a certain ilvl in Cata, and two, you're dead weight that can be replaced with someone who is actually keeping up.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

I don't think you understand how ilvl works. Each piece of gear in WoW is given a value which allows the devs to assign specific values of stats. Having ilvl of 333 means you outgear people of an ilvl of 300. It's the average of your equipment. Now, if a raid is designed around people having ilvl 359, then bringing people with ilvl 333 is CARRYING them through content.

The same thing was done in XI, though it wasn't called GS or ilvl. It was called, "You don't have all of the elemental staves as a BLM? Lolno you're not coming." Or, "BLM/SMN? GTFO the group."

People seem to think restrictions are limited to WoW, and that's certainly not the case. Would you bring a SMN/BLM to a healing party in XI when you're fighting an HNM? No. Why? Outside of a limited one healing BP per minute, that SMN isn't going to be able to heal at all, not is /blm useful for SMN at all outside of warp. That's the same reason people don't carry people in low ilvls through raids. For one, you can't even get into raids until a certain ilvl in Cata, and two, you're dead weight that can be replaced with someone who is actually keeping up.

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you needed the staffs that something else then you need to have a set score or GTFO it's a big diff. In ffxi a person who have good gear but not the best in the game was still allow to go to endgame. Now with ilvl if you don't have a set score let's say 500 you wont be allow in even if you have gear good enough to enter and do fine that the big issue.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

you needed the staffs that something else then you need to have a set score or GTFO it's a big diff. In ffxi a person who have good gear but not the best in the game was still allow to go to endgame. Now with ilvl if you don't have a set score let's say 500 you wont be allow in even if you have gear good enough to enter and do fine that the big issue.

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You're making a comparison but you're really not comparing 2 similar situations.

In XI, you were allowed to go as long as you could support in some way because you were running with your linkshell. There were not PuGs doing sky/sea/Dynamis/HNMs. You were in a linkshell for those events and went with them. You might pick up a couple random people that were friends of people already in the group, but you didn't sit in Jeuno shouting for more.

In WoW guild runs, it is the same way. I haven't had the highest ilvl on one class, but since I'm performing the same role as I do on my main, they know that I know how to play and will take my alt over the better geared player who they barely know.

Random PuGs are a completely different type of group. People in PuGs don't know you. They don't know if you're great at your rotations. They don't know if you're a moron that stands in fire or not. They are more likely to pick a high ilvl person due to the fact that they are more likely to know how to move out of fire. They are more likely to put out higher DPS. They are more likely to know what they're doing. That doesn't mean that those higher ilvl players are worth their salt, it just means that the people are looking for the smoothest run possible, and if the same happened in XI, would you rather take a 75 BLM to sky that had all NQ items, no AF2, didn't use macros... or would you rather take the person who has numerous HQ items, took the time to farm sea obis, has AF2 and AF1, and uses macros? Assuming you knew neither of these people, you are going to pick the latter. Why? Because they have put forth the effort to gear their character and at least try to be the best they can be.

tl;dr: Don't compare WoW PuGs to linkshell runs in XI. Get a guild in WoW and make a comparison then.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

You're making a comparison but you're really not comparing 2 similar situations.

In XI, you were allowed to go as long as you could support in some way because you were running with your linkshell. There were not PuGs doing sky/sea/Dynamis/HNMs. You were in a linkshell for those events and went with them. You might pick up a couple random people that were friends of people already in the group, but you didn't sit in Jeuno shouting for more.

In WoW guild runs, it is the same way. I haven't had the highest ilvl on one class, but since I'm performing the same role as I do on my main, they know that I know how to play and will take my alt over the better geared player who they barely know.

Random PuGs are a completely different type of group. People in PuGs don't know you. They don't know if you're great at your rotations. They don't know if you're a moron that stands in fire or not. They are more likely to pick a high ilvl person due to the fact that they are more likely to know how to move out of fire. They are more likely to put out higher DPS. They are more likely to know what they're doing. That doesn't mean that those higher ilvl players are worth their salt, it just means that the people are looking for the smoothest run possible, and if the same happened in XI, would you rather take a 75 BLM to sky that had all NQ items, no AF2, didn't use macros... or would you rather take the person who has numerous HQ items, took the time to farm sea obis, has AF2 and AF1, and uses macros? Assuming you knew neither of these people, you are going to pick the latter. Why? Because they have put forth the effort to gear their character and at least try to be the best they can be.


tl;dr: Don't compare WoW PuGs to linkshell runs in XI. Get a guild in WoW and make a comparison then.

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Look i can care less at the end in wow people care too much about dps and ilvl at the end that what matter and that what i hate i understand gear matter but when a addon tell you oh this player suck due to this and matter what the player say he wont be allow to join and that what i think that addon should never be allow within FFXIV.

It's how ppl care ffxiv got 4.9score and this mmo get 9.9 they would play that over this and that what matter to them same thing at least for me.

anyways wonder why we got so off topic :) guess it happen in every topic.

1. I was never allowed to go on FFXI raids because I didn't have above basic 75 gear. So that point is invalid, their will always be elitest, with or without addons its a manner of players once they find a way they will implement it. Just like they do now "Oh you are a PUG without such and such cross-class ability?!?!?! GTFO! Level your other classes!"

2. Blizzard took the gear score thing on board and now it is displayed on gear last I checked. So no add-on required, heck I had read a early cata dev post saying in next patch we will be releasing so-and-so gear score items so you can take on the next dungeon. It isn't an add-on's fault, blizzard just made WoW gear specific on content as to artificate some of the difficulty and give the endgame players something to strive for.

tl;dr Don't blame add-on's for either game design or player community, if you don't like it, continue playing the game the way you want. Don't play with those people, because they ruin your game experience.

A lot has been said about concerns over add-ons, and there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what they mean for the game. Incoming wall of text, unfortunately, but I tried to segment it a bit. There's a short summary of my points at the bottom, support is in the post.

First off, add-ons that allow people to check gear level will have very little impact on group formation. Anyone that would care about ilvl would just as easily look at your gear and make a decision based on that. Fact is, most people don't really care about gear level. It's a useful number that gives people a quick impression of the level of your gear. People will only be cut from groups based on gear level in two situations:
1. The people in the group are only interested in the highest level of gear and players. These people are probably mostly in the same linkshell/company for the most part, and they would kick you after looking at your gear anyways. The addition of the ability to get a simple number isn't going to change their exclusivity.
2. Your gear is too low to be capable of truly participating in the event. This is low enough gear that your 'skill' isn't going to cover. You simply should not be doing that content, and your group is simply carrying you. In this instance, the rest of your group kind of deserves to know this fact. Lots of people are still willing to help you out, but if it becomes a problem, they'll know right away who isn't pulling their weight.

In BOTH cases though, there is a problem, and having an add-on that tells you ilvl doesn't cause that problem. It's just a number that describes something they can already see. The groups everyone worries about that will kick you for having 'not the best ilvl' will kick you when they see you have 'not the best gear' too, and groups that kick you for having an inexcusably low ilvl can just inspect you anyways and see that for themselves.

It's also worth noting that I play WoW, and have had no ilvl issue. It's not a problem because people don't go looking for raid members for a level 359 raid and demand that everyone has 359 gear already. They'll take 350 and even lower, up to the discretion of the raid leader. Guild groups usually enter raids significantly lower than the ilvl of gear that drops because you simply can't get that gear without going in below ilvl. The thing is, the use of ilvl gives you a quick gauge to see if someone is inappropriately equipped for any given content. There is a point where skill cannot make up the difference, and you'll find that people tend to ask for ilvl just a bit above that. Groups just ask for reasonable gear, not the best. Some groups will, of course, demand the highest gear level, but those groups would kick you for having subpar gear anyways. At least this way you don't end up getting invited, then kicked shortly after.


As for the extreme amount of information and interaction, and addons 'playing the game for you,' there's a serious point that needs to be made here. The game, and it's interface, is a tool. The UI is a tool that players use to defeat challenges in the game. The more unresponsive, uninformative, and difficult to use the UI is, the worse of a tool it is. The worse the tool, the less fun it is to play the game. A simple (default) UI presents a reasonable amount of information, estimating about what the average player would want to see. If the player wants more, this is where addons are useful.

-Superficial addons are ones that reskin the UI. I haven't really seen any complaints about these customizations, so I won't really go into detail here. They're nice and handy, make the UI a cleaner, more friendly tool, and good all around.

-Informative UI addons give extra data that more hardcore players desperately want. This category includes things like cooldowns on pertinent spells, which spells are about to wear off, and things like damage meters. Damage meters provide information that people are already getting outside of the game, it just makes it a lot more accessable. These tools help players experiment more freely and with much better feedback. It's hardly a crutch to use these things, as they help you improve your gameplay mechanics and understanding of the game and class. Without damage meters, it's a lot more difficult to even identify that you need to improve an aspect of your class, since you can't compare data easily to anyone else's. For the record, I've never been asked how much dps I pull when lfg in WoW.

-Active addons that perform tasks for you are essentially UI elements that shorten actions down to a single click. Rather than clicking the target and then clicking decurse, you just click the target. These are more important for the hardcore players because it cuts down on things like "mouse travel time." I think even these forums would agree that "mouse travel time" should not be a limiting factor on someone's effectiveness. A curse-heavy fight should be focused on the healers realizing and reacting, not moving their mouse faster. This family of addons reduces mundane tasks into simpler actions, cutting out elements of the game that are really superficial UI shortcomings. By this I mean, the interface exists for us to tell their servers what we want our characters to do. The better we can do that, the better the interface is. These addons shorten the gap between our intentions and what we convey to the server via an improved interface.

-The final category of addons are ones that essentially provide cues. These addons give you reminders of all sorts of things, and some can go as far as telling you what to cast next. These are actually a pretty small minority of addons, and aren't the massive plague everyone here believes they are. The line between a reminder that a 3-minute spell is about to expire/cooldown (informative) and an addon telling you to recast it (playing your game for you) is pretty vague. In any event, these addons are useful for people picking up a new class to and even those looking to fine tune their reactions. They're like tutorials or practice engines, and eventually you can play without them. I don't think any WoW player ever would agree that their addons are playing the game for them. They still have to make all the judgment calls, and they have be prepared for their rotations and cues, otherwise all the addon-interfaces in the world won't help them play efficiently. These addons are interface aids that help you learn and efficiently play your class. Subpar addons will help players and then get disabled, but the best ones will stay active. Believe me, the top tier of WoW players are not idiots incapable of playing their classes, and they are the ones using these addons.

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In short, addons are not the evil people here feel they are. They help enhance an interface that in turn makes the game more enjoyable and more playable. The interface exists to translate your intent to the servers, and the better the interface accomplishes this, the better. Addons that assist gameplay may help players learn their classes, but exist to make veterans of their classes hone their skills even further. Addons that actually play classes for people are called bots and aren't actually allowed.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Look i can care less at the end in wow people care too much about dps and ilvl at the end that what matter and that what i hate i understand gear matter but when a addon tell you oh this player suck due to this and matter what the player say he wont be allow to join and that what i think that addon should never be allow within FFXIV.

It's how ppl care ffxiv got 4.9score and this mmo get 9.9 they would play that over this and that what matter to them same thing at least for me.

anyways wonder why we got so off topic :) guess it happen in every topic.

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You have very little experience about WoW. You mainly played on a private server, and you claim you've played since Cata, yet nobody uses gearscore in Cata. This sounds like you are simply repeating what you've heard other WoW players say, damned if it's true or not.

The addons don't tell you whether a player sucks. You bitching about an addon stopping you from joining a raid because you're undergeared is what shows you suck. XI had the exact same limitations, though the execution differed, as many people have pointed out. You're fooling yourself if you think it's even a valid comparison.

You don't understand how WoW works, and I highly doubt you have done any serious endgame in WoW. You claim your GF has healed without any healing addons. This is simply ridiculous. She might have healed dungeons that you leveled in, but she did not heal raids. If you're trying to say that she healed raids without addons, then she is being carried, or more likely, you're lying about your actual experience of the game to try to boost your credibility. No serious raid healer is not going to have a healing addon. Those that don't are being carried, simple. It has nothing to do with skill, before you start on that. It has everything to do with how the above poster stated, "mouse travel time." There is no extra skill involved with performing clicking on a raid frame and then pressing a button instead of clicking on that frame and it healing with whatever you press while mousing over the frame. It is faster and more efficient, and nobody is going to perform two separate steps which don't need to be separate in the first place, faster than the person using an addon to cut out the slow-down from unneeded UI clicking steps.

You don't like WoW, we all get that loud and clear. You aren't talking about personal experience though, because you're using ridiculous numbers like "500 ilvl" when there is no way to even get 400 ilvl in the game at the moment. Same with the gearscore numbers you've provided, and that addon hasn't even been used for nearly a year. It was broken when Cata launched, and I don't even know if it was ever fixed or not since ilvl is better and everyone uses that instead.

You straight up make shit up about WoW, and you treat the game as if it's an ex girlfriend who cheated on you with 50 men. You slander it, lie about it, and harass it in literally 95% of your posts. You did this on Eorzeapedia, and you said I was the reason you were leaving, and you're still doing it here. EVERY post I read from you mentions WoW. The crap is old dude. People bashed WoW back in 2004, 7 years later and you are still beating the dusty remains of that horse. Get over it. WoW did not do a damn thing to you, and anyone who plays it can tell you are lying through your teeth or you are exaggerating in the most extreme case possible.

Any change in XIV that makes it more accessible to new players and you start harping it's like WoW. You harp that the new UI SS looks like WoW. You harp that the new graphics look like WoW. You harp that 2.0 is a WoW clone. You harp and harp and harp about WoW. You bring up WoW more than any person that even plays WoW. You are obsessed with the game that you supposedly hate. YOU come off looking like a sad person who has an unhealthy obsession with a video game that you don't even play. It's almost like you're a closet WoW fan, yet you're too proud to admit that something other than Final Fantasy can be popular. You'd rather Final Fantasy continue on the failing track that Tanaka was driving it down than welcome much needed changes that will actually help this game make some modicum of a come back.

Let the WoW issue die. Even people I'd consider whiteknights on this forum have told you flat out that you're wrong about aspects like graphics in 2.0 (BASED ON A CONCEPT RENDERED SHOT) looking like WoW. It's time to give it a rest, and quite frankly, a lot of people have told you to can it, even people on "your side."

Edit: Aradon, perfect post, and I'm glad you explained what most of the addons do and how they are definitely NOT playing the game for you. Definitely a like from me.

My stance on all this arguing about Add-Ons playing the game for you:

You played FFXII and had a blast. I didn't see anyone (seriously) complaining about Gambits. The game was tailored to still be exciting and enjoyable with them in place.

@Shipp and Aradon

Well at least two people here understand the functionality of addons. I'm beginning to think that the people that don't want addons are the bads that just don't fully understand game mechanics therefore under perform, but wan't to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Lavani

@Shipp and Aradon

Well at least two people here understand the functionality of addons. I'm beginning to think that the people that don't want addons are the bads that just don't fully understand game mechanics therefore under perform, but wan't to be carried.

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Well there's no need for such claims. It seems to me that the people against add-ons are those who want players to succeed on the merit of their own skill. These people probably don't have much actual experience with add-ons, and so they don't realize that add-ons only amplify skill. It's true; add-ons don't play the game for you. They merely improve the interface so that you can play the game more effectively.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lavani

@Shipp and Aradon

Well at least two people here understand the functionality of addons. I'm beginning to think that the people that don't want addons are the bads that just don't fully understand game mechanics therefore under perform, but wan't to be carried.

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They're either the bads like you mentioned, or they're people who have no clue what the addons actually do, and instead listen to people like Zenaku who pretend they know what they do when they really don't. Nobody with actual knowledge of what gearscore or ilvl (which is not an addon) does will object to it. It only stops under-geared people from being carried in a raid that they cannot make a difference in.

I just find it hilarious that at least one known private server players is complaining about add-ons that wouldn't even be in use on a private server. Also the fact he keeps saying the same bugs in private servers are on premium WoW servers. The only bugs I have seen in my 7 years of playing are random mobs being glitched where you can't attack them, which is rare, lag causing your target's corpse to show up in a different location that it actually is on the server, thus you can't loot it if it's a small mob (again, very rarely happens, and never on bosses), flying in ghostlands via a glitch that was hotpatched in under 12 hours when Cata first launched, and I was unable to get my Lock mount from the quest chain during a certain week in BC. Blizz knew about the bug and fixed it in 2 days, and it took all of 15 minutes for a GM to respond to me and give me my Dreadsteed.

WoW is not any buggier than any other MMO. Every MMO is going to have bugs. Private server players, nor people who haven't raided endgame in WoW should not be contributing to the WoW add-on topic, because they really have no clue what they're talking about.

addon, and UI discussion aside. I really hope they do not implement the need to attain a certain gear score before you can enter/participate in a dungeon or raid. That sounds really stupid and unnecessary

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Originally Posted by Baxter

addon, and UI discussion aside. I really hope they do not implement the need to attain a certain gear score before you can enter/participate in a dungeon or raid. That sounds really stupid and unnecessary

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Nobody has said this will be the case...

I think.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Nobody has said this will be the case...

I think.

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I know. Im just going onto the offensive and stating opposition. Im sure it works for WoW and other games, but I really would not care for this feature. Not at all.