Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Hmm.... Not so sure about this idea. As useful as it is, it'd lower a new player's confidence most likely resulting in less active/subcribing players looking for those to party with (Friends blah blah irrelevant). FF14 is good at making new players feel welcomed (not sure for veteran players) so to add this mode would deviate from that reputation and maybe draw in a different player base entirely.

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Party Finder is a tool to find players with the same goal - if you're new, you shouldn't even be needing, or wanting, to join a farm party.

Clear and learning parties can still be joined and formed. New players are welcome to those and always will be, but farm parties are not the place for that.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Personally, I support this idea.

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Thank you for the support!

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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Sigh... you just read the title didnt you. Didn't even read the thread or the even try to understand the spirit of the thread. If you wanna understand you can go back in read. If you don't wanna understand and you just wanna post obnoxiously then you will be promptly ignored.

Actually I think this post highlights the real reason why this community sometimes sucks. Failure to even attempt to understand and have a civil discussion. Instead it resorts to a rage and flippancy.

Good day

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Originally Posted by Havenae

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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Have you actually read the thread or completely ignored everything I said other than the title?

'Oh no! Someone actually wants to do something for themselves in the game without it being hindered by incompetent players or people using their parties for their own benefit! How SELFISH! What an 'obnoxious elitist twerp!'

...

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Originally Posted by Havenae

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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I'm not sorry for the fact that when I join farm party and actually want to FARM.

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Originally Posted by Naliee

I'm not sorry for the fact that when I join farm party and actually want to FARM.

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This. I don't even know how people can use the arguments that they do.

It says a lot about the community (that people keep preaching about) when people think it's okay for players to disrespect and use someone's party for selfish reasons, but not okay to want to farm successfully.

Smh.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I'm simply asking for a setting on the party finder to allow players who have completed the fight only. When you have tried farming something as much as I have and have endlessly had your PF used for free clears or people joining with no clue, it gets boring quickly.

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So put 'must have win' in the PF comment. This is pretty effective. But if people ignore it, too bad. That's the risk you take when using the party finder. If you wanted an experienced group you'd grab people you know are reliable and form a party on your own. Adding such an option to the party finder would also KILL the PARTY FINDER. Because people don't create parties for players with less experience than themselves. They create parties to WIN, which means almost all party listings will be limited it too people who already have a clear.

Perhaps you should just use the DF to farm. I've done that. It works... you get quick queue times if your a tank or healer, which appears to be the role you play. Depends on the battle of course.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

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I understand your point.

I just don't quite understand how making a check box that forces the game to make sure that the person has a clear would somehow kill PF. Honestly, I try to avoid PF right now because it is broken in it's current state. It needs fixes and options to make it a resource that is reliable. It's simply not reliable at all because people lie. There needs to be a check and a balance to that. Honestly though if someone wants the win then they can make a learning or clear party... they are on there all the time. They also fill up, usually with people who will help clear it because they are bored. If people are unwilling to make these parties and are instead hijacking an experienced group without their knowledge then isnt that an issue that should be addressed. Why should players be hamstringed just because someone hasn't gotten a clear. It's in their quest log and so it is their responsibility to facilitate a clear.

I guess I'm having trouble seeing where your coming from on this.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Basically. But hey, at least people would have to look for a different scape goat foe why their farm fails forthe ttwentieth time that night.

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I'd still be willing to bet it would happen less, but of course it would still happen lol.

Basically. But hey, at least people would have to look for a different scape goat foe why their farm fails forthe ttwentieth time that night.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Why should players be hamstringed just because someone hasn't gotten a clear. It's in their quest log and so it is their responsibility to facilitate a clear.

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It's the responsibility of the party founder to make sure every member knows his or her role and what to do. That may mean explaining the fight, for each role, asking and responding to questions, and have an overall understanding on every person is going to do. That's the job of the leader! If the party fails, that means as leader you did something wrong.

How is checking for a clear going to prevent people from joining as a role they not familiar playing as. If I clear something as DPS, that doesn't mean I'll be able to properly function as healer or tank. So the same problem still crops up.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

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It's purely conjecture to try and suggest that this sort of addition would 'kill the party finder.' As a matter of fact, this option might encourage more seasoned party members to lead Farm parties, leading to an increase in the Party finder in total. The reason for this?

Any good Farmer right now with a half-decent FC will seek to build a PF from their FC. Those ones are currently not in the pool - with an option to lock the PF you're in to Clear-only status, however, it would be more likely to attract some of these members.


The PF at the moment is dead, but this option is not in the party finder right now. The reason for this? The content the game offers right now is all solo-content, outside of Savage. You que DF solo for anything you need, and atm the servers social are lacking.

A new player will not be prevented from creating a PF under such a suggested system. But they wouldn't be able to try and hijack a party after waiting half an hour to build a team in PF.

PF isn't begging people for help. It's to draw like minded individuals together into one party using a streamlined process.

Does the system consider you new to content until you've actually cleared it, or simply entered it? If the latter, this whole idea would be pointless :X

I think the inflammatory thread title puts people in a hostile mood before they even enter. It sounds really elitist but then when you read the actual request it's quickly apparent that it's a reasonable suggestion which helps everyone find a suitable party for what they want to do more effectively.

I'm struggling to think of a way that having more filters would make Party Finder worse; heck, it might make people use it more so more people can find groups, and nothing is stopping newcomers from making their own rival party finder groups that don't require a clear. The only thing that makes these requests go unanswered is that the staff probably don't realise how rough people have it. I would genuinely be shocked to find someone lying their way into a PF group I made without meeting the requirements because the culture is so different across regions; it sucks that it's such a problem on other servers.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

It's the responsibility of the party founder to make sure every member knows his or her role and what to do. That may mean explaining the fight, for each role, asking and responding to questions, and have an overall understanding on every person is going to do. That's the job of the leader! If the party fails, that means as leader you did something wrong.

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So... you blame the leader if (sneaky)newb joins to FARM party when PF comment says "no bonus/newbs" and then you have to waste more time to find rep for that person?

There are always players who seek the way of the least resistance. If you have choice to get carried or to wipe several times till all players learn the fight, which one would you take? Some don't consider lying their way in farm party to be immoral.

In situations like these the game developers have to create features to prevent such behaviour. Imagine how would the game look if there were no item level requirements at all... not saying that these are sufficient.

Basically if the community can't prevent misbehaviour on its own then it is time to create restrictions or give players tools to filter their PF members.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

It's the responsibility of the party founder to make sure every member knows his or her role and what to do. That may mean explaining the fight, for each role, asking and responding to questions, and have an overall understanding on every person is going to do. That's the job of the leader!

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So it's my fault that someone doesn't tell me they are new and messes up my entire party? No, a bonus message doesn't tell me who is new. It tells me that someone of 7 people is new.

Also maybe I need to explain the huge point you seem to be missing - players join, DO know what to do but then leave after they've got their clear. It doesn't take a brain scientist to know why having a clear only option would help this. You're either completely missing the point or trying to white knight the community when in fact, this wouldn't even be an issue if the community was honest and didn't try leeching off other people.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

It's the responsibility of the party founder to make sure every member knows his or her role and what to do. That may mean explaining the fight, for each role, asking and responding to questions, and have an overall understanding on every person is going to do. That's the job of the leader! If the party fails, that means as leader you did something wrong.

How is checking for a clear going to prevent people from joining as a role they not familiar playing as. If I clear something as DPS, that doesn't mean I'll be able to properly function as healer or tank. So the same problem still crops up.

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Right now the party founder doesn't have the tools necessary though. All this is calling for is to provide that tool to the party founder. Additionally, if you have cleared before then you at least know the general rules of phase shifts and mechanics. It's easy to figure things from there.

The point is would you give a carpenter a pipe wrench and ask him to build a cabinet?

No, that would be ridiculous. It's not really far off base to what is happening with PF currently.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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I'm assuming by 'obnoxious elitist twerps' you actually mean 'people that want to farm in peace without being sabotaged by a tidal wave of bads just looking for a carry' here but are having trouble coming up with the right words. That's okay. We know what you really mean and that's kinda the entire point of the thread. Making it easier for us 'obnoxious elitist twerps' to find our own groups.

If you really believe that us wanting to farm something makes a bad community, you should remove the tinfoil hat. Many of the people you're slapping with derogatory labels are the very same ones that are willing to help new people clear. The thing is, we shouldn't be forced to help when we are of a mind to actually get other things done. When I want to farm, I farm. When I want to help, I help. Simple.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

So put 'must have win' in the PF comment. This is pretty effective. But if people ignore it, too bad. That's the risk you take when using the party finder. If you wanted an experienced group you'd grab people you know are reliable and form a party on your own.

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Putting 'must have win' in the comment isn't very effective at all. If it was, this thread wouldn't even be a thing. When I put together a farm party, I do hit up my friends and linkshells first, but sometimes people are busy or just not feeling it and you can only get 6/8 or 7/8. That's when we go to PF to pug the last members. You're trying to make arguments for Party Finder here (where you are able to filter for the type of players that you'd like) that are actually better suited for Duty Finder (where you get completely random people). We're using Party Finder for its intended purpose and all we're asking for is for the tools we have (the check boxes) to actually physically enforce what we're looking for by not allowing people that don't meet the criteria to join in the first place, thereby avoiding the hassle.

I really don't understand why people keep trying to argue that this will "kill the community" or "kill party finder" or other various alarmist nonsense. All we're asking for is for the tools we have to actually be supported by the code instead of leaving the sorting out up to us.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Does the system consider you new to content until you've actually cleared it, or simply entered it? If the latter, this whole idea would be pointless :X

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You will have had to clear the content, as in defeat the duty.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

It's the responsibility of the party founder to make sure every member knows his or her role and what to do. That may mean explaining the fight, for each role, asking and responding to questions, and have an overall understanding on every person is going to do. That's the job of the leader! If the party fails, that means as leader you did something wrong.

How is checking for a clear going to prevent people from joining as a role they not familiar playing as. If I clear something as DPS, that doesn't mean I'll be able to properly function as healer or tank. So the same problem still crops up.

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Not sure if you're serious here:
I would like a tool for party leaders to better set up farm parties.

No! You will not have a tool for party leaders to set up proper parties! It is the job of the party leader to set up proper parties!

As to your last question, it has been answered many a time in this thread.
1. It will mean you have some idea of how the content is played at the very least.
2. One of the main reasons was to set up a farm party. To prevent those who join for the clear and leave after one run causing the party to fall apart, from ruining the party. Or is this a bad thing? tbh, this kills PF far more than not having the option does.
3. Also, it is not a 100% promise of totally skilled players, but you are more likely to get one with it. If you think they should only be implementing things that have a 100% success rates, you are being foolish, as this is nearly impossible.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

I got a better idea. block obnoxious elitist twerps from the party finder. If you've cleared it 'infinity-1' amount of times.. find your own group.

Shit like this is why this game's community SUCKS.

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Umm. I'm going to assume you were someone who read the thread title and nothing else. But yeah.... Isn't finding your own group what PF is for?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

The only thing that makes these requests go unanswered is that the staff probably don't realise how rough people have it. I would genuinely be shocked to find someone lying their way into a PF group I made without meeting the requirements because the culture is so different across regions; it sucks that it's such a problem on other servers.

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Thanks for reading the thread and understanding, especially when you don't see this happening yourself :) It's appreciated.

This happens with I'd say 80% of the farm parties I've either set up or have been in, and it seems the same happens to a lot of other people. I think it happens more on the larger servers since people don't care too much about their reputation.

I will say I get a fair number of people who ask to join without the clear as well.

I have allowed it once or twice with bad results. "I've seen enrage" and then they die to things and tank the ground.... All the way to enrage.

People put failure on the team but take successs as an individual effort xD or they get lucky and get no mechanics.

I think making use of the green leaf icon and apply it to players new to any instance would be nice, that would be useful across the board to be honest.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Why are you talking about disabling PF lol?
There would be "Ravana Extreme Farm Party" with "People who cleared this duty" option checked, anyone who cleared Ravana Extreme would be able to join, anyone who haven't would have the party gray, so they won't be able to join it.

You are completely exaggerating.

No one is entitled to get carried by people who put their effort to clear some duty to be able to farm it unless they want to help.

EDIT:
People who get into farm parties without clear and without saying anything to party leader in advance are getting kicked and blacklisted anyways, the only difference between what we have now and what we would have with special option is, that party leaders wouldn't have to bother with them and waste their time.

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Up until this post, I agreed with the OP and I still do. And I'm one of those players who haven't cleared most of coil, and none of Alex Savage. But this post helped me to see how something like this would be beneficial to the excluded player. No one likes to be blacklisted. Maybe the person joining had good intentions and knew the fight well enough. But joining without saying anything is still a jerk thing to do and worthy of a blacklist. Being automatically excluded like this protects that player as well.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Can we block first timers from df also? im tired of having to explain everything to them.

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Sarcasm not withstanding... no.

I would be very surprised if this gets ever implemented, however sound it might seem to most of us (myself included).

Firstly, the current options for PF have the underlying meaning of "preference", not "requirement" (at least I get this impression). It's just a message what kind of behaviour one might expect joining that party. So mixing such strict option in there might not be the best idea (of course, there would be ways if they really wanted).

Secondly and more importantly, regarding MMO's generally, I believe that developers kind of have to follow this unwritten rule there is no way the community is able to easily reject the "bad/immature" players. Of course, there is "vote kick", blacklist and such, but I think this is as far as we can ever get. One of the reasons might be that they want (need) to prevent the community from getting too "elitist", even if this particular suggestion is far from that (however, 9/10 cases this option would be checked if implemented, imo). Additionally, it is likely that lots of young/immature people are playing the game and therefor making an option that would allow people to block them from accessing certain features is not really smart, at least from business perspective. The likelihood of people leaving the game because they can't access party finders is bigger then the likelihood of people leaving because they run into someone "new" joining PF with "farm" in the description here and there.

And so I believe we are left with ourselves to deal with this. The best shot would probably be to put very strict and specific rules by yourself in the PF description (like "going to check achievements"). Although, some might be familiar with Guild Wars 2. There I believe this approach leads to very hostile environment for almost all new players (zerker 5k+ meta, no noob or kick). Next thing might be having the strong and matured community actually teach all the bad/immature people that this is something you don't do (yes - naive).

In retrospect, having this option might actually be easier for the player to grasp. Like "wtf I can't join this PF, lemme check, ohh, it's for those that have a clear, ok". So yeah, all in all, not a bad idea. You've got my vote if you ask.

edit: Holy shit, there is still the 1000 char limit - see, they don't even want to let us complain, yeah - this is not getting implemented. :P

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Originally Posted by KiraKarea

Additionally, it is likely that lots of young/immature people are playing the game and therefor making an option that would allow people to block them from accessing certain features is not really smart, at least from business perspective. The likelihood of people leaving the game because they can't access party finders is bigger then the likelihood of people leaving because they run into someone "new" joining PF with "farm" in the description here and there.

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Simple solution: Don't even show the farm parties in Party Finder unless you have the required clear. The young and immature wouldn't even know what they're being excluded from.

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

Simple solution: Don't even show the farm parties in Party Finder unless you have the required clear. The young and immature wouldn't even know what they're being excluded from.

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I don't know if I agree with this one. Having the party visible would still allow for someone to ask the leader if they would be allowed in to attain a clear. Doing this would take away that option and make it less available.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

I don't know if I agree with this one. Having the party visible would still allow for someone to ask the leader if they would be allowed in to attain a clear. Doing this would take away that option and make it less available.

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Hrm, true. I hadn't considered that consequence.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Being automatically excluded like this protects that player as well.

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I never really thought of it like this either, that's a very good point and all the more reason to have this implemented.

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Originally Posted by KiraKarea

And so I believe we are left with ourselves to deal with this. The best shot would probably be to put very strict and specific rules by yourself in the PF description (like "going to check achievements").

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The problem is that achievements default to being hidden on the Lodestone. It'd be a huge headache to walk a bunch of people through setting their profiles to public, especially when you may run up against someone that doesn't want to do so for whatever reason.

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In retrospect, having this option might actually be easier for the player to grasp. Like "wtf I can't join this PF, lemme check, ohh, it's for those that have a clear, ok". So yeah, all in all, not a bad idea. You've got my vote if you ask.

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Yeah that's just it, half the time I think it's a matter of people not even bothering to read the comments.

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Originally Posted by KiraKarea

So yeah, all in all, not a bad idea. You've got my vote if you ask.

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Thanks for the support and detailed reply!

It really is such a simple request, we now have lootmaster and the ability to set greed only.

Doing greed farms now can be guaranteed where as before it was down to the player to not press need, 99/100 this worked but there was always that one guy...

I really can't see anyones objection to this, if the party is clearly labelled "farm" or no newbies then your clearly not allowed to join, unless you ask the pf leader plain and simple and can demonstrate you know what to do.


Taking it to another level, for learning party's it would be nice if you could set a certain percentage of boss hp. I.E phase 4-kill practice, please only join if you know phase 1-3 completely

Boss hp min exp 50%


Back when I was attempting T9 it was so frustrating to have people just join my pf for db phase-kill who knew jack shit about golems :(

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Sigh... you just read the title didnt you. Didn't even read the thread or the even try to understand the spirit of the thread. If you wanna understand you can go back in read. If you don't wanna understand and you just wanna post obnoxiously then you will be promptly ignored.

Actually I think this post highlights the real reason why this community sometimes sucks. Failure to even attempt to understand and have a civil discussion. Instead it resorts to a rage and flippancy.

Good day

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What do you expect? The title of this thread is basically flame-bait. I would have thought it was a troll thread as well unless I read the whole thing and it's unrealistic to expect that from most forum goers.

Thread title is misleading, but you don't need to read every single post that this thread has made. 90% of those are "OMFG WHY YOU WANNA BULLY NEWBS EVEN MORE?!" No.

It's enough when you read first post, everything explained in there.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

What do you expect? The title of this thread is basically flame-bait. I would have thought it was a troll thread as well unless I read the whole thing and it's unrealistic to expect that from most forum goers.

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The third line of the op apologizes for the misleading title in bright red letters. It's not that unrealistic to expect that forum goers read that much of something that they're going to post an opinion about. Or rather, it shouldn't be an unrealistic expectation.

There has to be some sort of system to generally filter out a certain experience of player who can queue to your group. Not just item level but expirience, can't queue unless you have x/x experience in the raid. 4/10 bosses etc. A better filter.

I don't get why people oppose this. Their mindset is that veteran players would use this to bully new players. As it stands, new players are bullying veteran players by joining fights they do not know. This is griefing, folks. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

What do you expect? The title of this thread is basically flame-bait. I would have thought it was a troll thread as well unless I read the whole thing and it's unrealistic to expect that from most forum goers.

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Except I apologised multiple times for the title, which in no way was intended to be flame bait, in the FIRST THREE LINES.

If you can't even read that far why are you posting a response in the first place? In fact, why are you even using the forums and posting in threads if you're not going to fully read them and attempt to understand them?