We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

I don't understand your complains about the oGCD skills, you can easily do 1 oGCD skill after a GCD skill, even a Bloodletter that just proced, be faster that's all.

You can call me an elitist all you want, I really don't care. But don't blame the class and try to improve, switch to another job or quit the game.
And stop all those whining thread already, that's just exhausting and any of the whiners have good arguments and just are "I can't do it, so it's broken"

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As I said before. Its abunch of people whining who haven't given the class a fair go. Plenty of BRDs are having no problems with the rotation. The difference is they actually tried.

To be fair, I suppose BRD wasn't a class for people who wanted to try in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Its abunch of people whining who haven't given the class a fair go.

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So what's the name of the character you have that has Bard at 60? Because the one you're displaying has it at 6.

I mean, obviously you have one, because you've given it a fair go, right? You've leveled it to 60 and given it a fair go to see how much the gameplay changes instead of just going off of what other people may do, right?

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

So what's the name of the character you have that has Bard at 60? Because the one you're displaying has it at 6.

I mean, obviously you have one, because you've given it a fair go, right? You've leveled it to 60 and given it a fair go to see how much the gameplay changes instead of just going off of what other people may do, right?

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I know that there are BRDs having no issue with the new rotation. I know there are BRDs parsing just fine for DPS. I know that there are a lot of people saying that the new rotation is sloppy and thus they can't DPS, and those same people want the ARR back. A few days ago the core argument was no mobility. Thats been beaten into the dirt and no one cared to listen. So now the whiners jumped on "Well the rotation is just plain bad and/or impossible."

So either the rotation is fine and people need to learn it. Or the rotation is bad and those who are doing fine DPS aren't really.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Things that don't answer what I asked.

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So you don't have a Bard at 60, then?

So you're actually being a hypocrite by saying the Bards should give it a fair go before saying they don't like it when you haven't given it a fair go, then?

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

So you don't have a Bard at 60, then?

So you're actually being a hypocrite by saying the Bards should give it a fair go before saying they don't like it when you haven't given it a fair go, then?

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Nothing hypocritical about. I dont want a bard in the first place and didn't before. I think you need to learn the definition of hypocrite, or at least not jump to calling people negative things because you disagree with them. But no, keep arguing against all that silly evidence that BRD rotations and DPS are fine, and the class as a whole is fine. Its a new experience, people need to learn it. The argument that they are a bad class is blatantly false and one people keep using and shouldn't.

Mind you, I did learn my warriors new mechanic: stance dancing, and had to get used to it. It's a pain in the ass learning when you can switch, but I did.

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Originally Posted by Tila

not jump to calling people negative things because you disagree with them.

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But saying we're just whining because we're not giving it a fair go, when you haven't yourself, is positive and okay, then? Not to mention this little gem:

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Originally Posted by Tila

I suppose BRD wasn't a class for people who wanted to try in the first place.

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Let's try not complaining about others being negative when you're being negative yourself, hm?

And what is it, if not hypocrisy, to say that we need to give it a fair go before judging it when you're judging it without giving it a fair go?

Someone who's only gotten up to level 53 and used it for a single dungeon has objectively more experience than you do, so how come they're not allowed to not like it when you haven't even touched it?

What makes your opinion worth so much more than someone who's objectively experienced it and not liked it? Because other people that aren't you are okay with it?

Well, other people that aren't me also don't like it, so clearly if "other people that aren't us" are a valid source of information, we're on equal grounds on that.

That leaves just our own personal experience. And I'm the only one of us two who has experienced it.

If you think that being a hypocrite is something negative, then don't hold people to standards you don't meet.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Mind you, I did learn my warriors new mechanic: stance dancing, and had to get used to it. It's a pain in the ass learning when you can switch, but I did.

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Really? Because my Warrior's 55 and I'm having a super easy time figuring out when to switch so far. It's not that hard to pay attention to how fights work and know when you should be expecting heavy damage and when will be minor damage.

Also, here's the difference: As a tank, you don't need to stance dance to be effective. If you're the one being hit, congratulations, you're doing your job properly. It's the DPS' job to kill things faster. Deliverance is a bonus, not a requirement.

As a Bard, if you don't use WM, you aren't going to be effective. Period.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Also, here's the difference: As a tank, you don't need to stance dance to be effective. If you're the one being hit, congratulations, you're doing your job properly. It's the DPS' job to kill things faster. Deliverance is a bonus, not a requirement..

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lol, yes, its my job to not be effective. This says a lot. It's a very bardic mentality, since those who use that class are well known for not wanting to use their support songs: thus the class for people who dont want to try.

BRDs are parsing fine. Many have no problem with the rotation that whiners say is bad. That tells me whiners arent trying.

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Originally Posted by Tila

whiners say is bad. That tells me whiners arent trying.

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Weren't you just complaining about people being negative, Negative Nancy?

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Weren't you just complaining about people being negative, Negative Nancy?

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You make such compelling arguments. That said, the big issue was that you weren't even using the word properly.

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Originally Posted by Tila

You make such compelling arguments. That said, the big issue was that you weren't even using the word properly.

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hypocrisy
the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do

You tell us not to make a judgment on it without giving it a fair go, while making your judgment on it without giving it a fair go.

I've used it incorrectly? Do explain.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

hypocrisy
the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do

You tell us not to make a judgment on it without giving it a fair go, while making your judgment on it without giving it a fair go.

I've used it incorrectly? Do explain.

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By that definition, I would be a hypocrite if I was using BRD poorly while telling people not to play as I do.

I am not doing something and then telling people not to do it.

Okay, this back and forth arguing is getting out of hand. Now as someone who HAS gotten BRD AND MCH to 60 and who HAS played brd since 2.0 I do say the changes are nice and the instacast WM/GB were needed since they already have a lot of clunkiness to their current kits. Now as for dmg wise, I feel BRD is currently where it needs to be. I think they COULD get more love in the quality of life department, and that goes for MCH as well since they currently have a lot of bugs with rapidfire still forcing cast times after the skill was used and same with removing GB. I believe Haxetc explained that in his latest video. Now how it is now I think while in WM the whole bloodletter mechanic should be reworked since its original design was implemented for 2.0 brd and not 3.0 brd. As for their 3.0 abilities I feel wardens could use a bit of rework since its really ONLY used for Warriors currently. It just feels like after 3.0 not only did they change the play style but you also gave us an ability that is WAY too situational. Then again MCH has a lot of sutational skills on their kit too that could be reworked. I don't HATE the classes as they are now I just feel they could be cleaned up a bit. Their dmg isn't as high as other DPS but I think thats more based on current gearing choices vs play style. In the end of 2.0 you could have like a 45% crit rating. That was fun but now its like 15-25%. Secondary stats have been retweaked and this is to be expected. The thing the classes need the most right NOW are only tweaks to quality of life. They don't feel as fluid and have got bugs or do we need to remember the 10 seconds of unable to do anything bug XD.

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Originally Posted by XionAvalonArcadia

Okay, this back and forth arguing is getting out of hand. Now as someone who HAS gotten BRD AND MCH to 60 and who HAS played brd since 2.0 I do say the changes are nice and the instacast WM/GB were needed since they already have a lot of clunkiness to their current kits. Now as for dmg wise, I feel BRD is currently where it needs to be. I think they COULD get more love in the quality of life department, and that goes for MCH as well since they currently have a lot of bugs with rapidfire still forcing cast times after the skill was used and same with removing GB. I believe Haxetc explained that in his latest video. Now how it is now I think while in WM the whole bloodletter mechanic should be reworked since its original design was implemented for 2.0 brd and not 3.0 brd. As for their 3.0 abilities I feel wardens could use a bit of rework since its really ONLY used for Warriors currently. It just feels like after 3.0 not only did they change the play style but you also gave us an ability that is WAY too situational. Then again MCH has a lot of sutational skills on their kit too that could be reworked. I don't HATE the classes as they are now I just feel they could be cleaned up a bit. Their dmg isn't as high as other DPS but I think thats more based on current gearing choices vs play style. In the end of 2.0 you could have like a 45% crit rating. That was fun but now its like 15-25%. Secondary stats have been retweaked and this is to be expected. The thing the classes need the most right NOW are only tweaks to quality of life. They don't feel as fluid and have got bugs or do we need to remember the 10 seconds of unable to do anything bug XD.

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Yeah, I think everyone can agree that they need a little looking at. A lot of classes do, and will, get the aid they need. We know the devs are even looking at BRD specifically atm.

But, as of now, while BRD can use some polishing. It's a perfectly viable, and working, class.

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Originally Posted by Tila

I am not doing something and then telling people not to do it.

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I've already explained what you're doing that you're telling us we shouldn't do. I won't repeat myself again.

Until you actually play a Bard to know how the skills work, your opinion on the matter has no value. Especially against people who have.

No amount of pointing at other people and saying "See, they're fine with it" makes you have a valid opinion.

Do you legitimately wonder why nobody actually cares what you have to say on the matter?

What you're doing isn't really any different from going up to someone who's tried a bite of spinach, hated the taste, and telling them that they should love the taste because the guy sitting two tables over eats it. While having never eaten spinach before yourself.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Then don't go into them. Problem solved.

We're not forcing you in here.

To put it your way, "Switch to another thread or quit the forum".

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The thing you don't understand is that most of the BRDs are pointing out some issues of the class, this is fine.
But they ACTUALLY play the class correctly and tried their best to not report those "bugs" you're talking about without even trying to get past this and find a way.

Your only argument so far is : "You don't have the job to 60, you can't talk".
Of course I can, I have my Bard to level 53, so I have WM. There is nothing wrong with the job, the timings are a bit tight, but you get used to it.

Don't blame SE for your incompetence, Bard is fine, you are not, end of the argument.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

Don't blame SE for your incompetence, Bard is fine, you are not, end of the argument.

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Since you seem to know what I've said regarding the issue of Bards, please summarize my position.

It should be easy, since you jump to attacking me and my competence so quickly.

Please tell me what I have said regarding them that marks me as incompetent.

The thing you don't understand is that not everybody has said the same thing about Bards. But please keep whining about the threads being here, which only serves to keep them on the front page and in maximum visibility, not to mention draws out more arguments that will keep them here longer.

Also, if you think my only argument is "You don't have the job to 60, you can't talk", you clearly have only just jumped into these threads recently, so you're whining about something that clearly hasn't affected you for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Whiny person

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I did read everything you said, and I didn't find a viable complain, everything you said is not an issue, it's the Bard new playstyle.
Either you like it or not, SE designed it like that and won't probably go back.

I know a lot of good Bards and the only complain they had is the auto-attacks > WM when HW was released, but they fixed it and those Bards are totally fine with the changes and can play their job perfectly.
Ones who didn't like the new playstyle just switched to another classes and moved on, they don't complain about it, they just don't like it anymore and THAT is totally understable.

All your complains are not "bugs" nor "issues" only the Bard new gameplay, some people like it, some don't and if they don't like it that's totally fine, there are a lot of other classes.

And I'm not the only one saying it, but apparently you can't get it.

We had lance mages and fist mages in early 1.xx, didn't work too well.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

I did read everything you said, and I didn't find a viable complain, everything you said is not an issue, it's the Bard new playstyle.
Either you like it or not, SE designed it like that and won't probably go back.

I know a lot of good Bards and the only complain they had is the auto-attacks > WM when HW was released, but they fixed it and those Bards are totally fine with the changes and can play their job perfectly.
Ones who didn't like the new playstyle just switched to another classes and moved on, they don't complain about it, they just don't like it anymore and THAT is totally understable.

All your complains are not "bugs" nor "issues" only the Bard new gameplay, some people like it, some don't and if they don't like it that's totally fine, there are a lot of other classes.

And I'm not the only one saying it, but apparently you can't get it.

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I dont think they realize that brd dps is fine, and that the rotation is fine. When those two things are true then its user error, so they wont admit they cant play the class like those people who have no issue with it and do fine.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

I did read everything you said

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Then summarize it.

It shouldn't be that hard if you read everything. There's a few things that stick out in common, actually.

"I read it and you're wrong" isn't a summary.

And you can skip the personal attacks. I honestly don't care if you think I'm whining because I don't believe you've even read even a single one of my actual complaints about the new Bard style, much less all of them. And I don't care if you think I'm incompetent because you've never played with me, so I know what I'm capable of a lot better than you. So if you can kind of stay relevant to the actual subject, that'd be nice.

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Originally Posted by Tila

I dont think they realize that brd dps is fine, and that the rotation is fine.

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I don't think you realize that I'm not talking about Bard DPS, and I don't think you realize that the more you mention a rotation in respect to Bards, the less it looks like you know anything about Bards.

Bards aren't built around rotations. They're built around reactions.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

snip

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I have both MCH and BRD at 60 and ilvl185. WM/GB are just fine, SE just needs to clean up the flow of the abilities in BRD to make it feel less clunky. Right now GB feels natural to MCH's play style and abilities while WM feels tacked onto the BRD. BRD just needs some quality of life adjustments to make the flow of the job feel better. In general, I think WM/GB are great systems and they do not impede on mobility as many people want to lead you to believe. Its still easy to move around and be efficient at DPS at the same time. They are not going away, so people should really get use to it or offer criticism on how WM/GB itself can be improved.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Then summarize it.

It shouldn't be that hard if you read everything. There's a few things that stick out in common, actually.

"I read it and you're wrong" isn't a summary.

And you can skip the personal attacks. I honestly don't care if you think I'm whining because I don't believe you've even read even a single one of my actual complaints about the new Bard style, much less all of them. And I don't care if you think I'm incompetent because you've never played with me, so I know what I'm capable of a lot better than you. So if you can kind of stay relevant to the actual subject, that'd be nice.



I don't think you realize that I'm not talking about Bard DPS, and I don't think you realize that the more you mention a rotation in respect to Bards, the less it looks like you know anything about Bards.

Bards aren't built around rotations. They're built around reactions.

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http://discourse-cdn.global.ssl.fast...fe12eeecf9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Velhart

SE just needs to clean up the flow of the abilities in BRD to make it feel less clunky.

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Which is what my complaints about it are based around, as I don't have any problems with the amount of damage that can be put out (yet). I've even stated specifically that the cast times themselves aren't the problem, but the way the cast times were just slapped onto a class specifically designed not to have them.

For some reason, people ignorantly assume that because someone doesn't like WM, it means they're talking about damage.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Which is what my complaints about it are based around, as I don't have any problems with the amount of damage that can be put out (yet). I've even stated specifically that the cast times themselves aren't the problem, but the way the cast times were just slapped onto a class specifically designed not to have them.

For some reason, people ignorantly assume that because someone doesn't like WM, it means they're talking about damage.

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WM not feeling natural on BRD is a valid complaint. Just saying this in general, WM in no way needs to go away, it just needs tweaking in the quality of life department, not necessarily a damage boost or decrease. Its actually quite the difference if you play MCH and BRD. GB on MCH really feels like (and likely was) built from the ground up, so it feels natural to have it. I simply don't feel the same about BRD in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

We had lance mages and fist mages in early 1.xx, didn't work too well.

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Curious, has any MMO had melee that cast as an important part of their damage dealing?

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Originally Posted by Tila

Curious, has any MMO had melee that cast as an important part of their damage dealing?

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Marauder in Swtor had a channeling melee attack

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I simply don't feel the same about BRD in that regard.

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I actually wonder how much novelty vs. routine plays into the perception too, honestly.

Like, as someone who mained a Bard for a couple years, you learn how to maximize your DPS by reacting to procs asap and how to properly weave things as much as possible. As a result, it feels like you're slacking if you watch a BL proc go by unused because you were too busy casting, or starting a straight shot cast the split second before Straighter Shot procs.

For someone who's not mained it and is just casually leveling it, they haven't had that time to really get stuck into the idea of how important it was to capitalize on BL/SS procs when they happen and as they happen, so going through to WM, they might not feel the same if, for example, they see BL procs get wasted while they're casting.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

*Whining intensifies*

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You're asking me this because you don't even have any ideas what you said in your previous posts, don't you ?
What I read was "I can't move like I used to" : You don't need to move all the time, staying still is fine and you can still move while not wasting GCD skills, you're not even close to a caster in that regard.
"It feels clunky" : Actually the job is way more exciting now. Before, the rotation was boring, do the same thing, refresh and use some skills when it proced, now you have to see if it procs, use it really fast, you have other skills to care about etc. (Maybe I'm just the kind of guy who likes to play complex classes, I don't know)

All your complains are just what YOU feel about the job, so they are not issues, just things you don't like therefore not valid for a buff or anything. Like I said, you don't like it, don't play it.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

Actually the job is way more exciting now. Before, the rotation was boring, do the same thing, refresh and use some skills when it proced, now you have to see if it procs, use it really fast, you have other skills to care about etc. (Maybe I'm just the kind of guy who likes to play complex classes, I don't know)

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As a former full-time bard main, I'd attest that your overall rotation (or priority list, whatever) remains the same during WM, and you have more or less the same buttons to press (you gain sidewinder, empyreal arrow and iron jaws, but you have one less dot to constantly reapply).

The bolded parts, you can't use those skills in the middle of casting, and the procs, both bloodletter resets and straighter shot can occur in the middle of your cast, especially the latter because of the shoddy hit detection delay. It's not complex; I'm not even keeping an eye on more things I had to before 2.0. The difference is that I'm looking at it reset and I can't do anything to use it immediately and potentially watch me get a double proc, wasting the first one.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

Did it wrong.

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Nope. That wasn't a summary of my complaints at all.

And no, since one of my complaints is that thanks to the casting time plus the animation time, Straighter Shot procs after the GCD is up, allowing you to start casting Straight Shot before it procs, making it not crit and not be instant, my complaints are not just "what I feel" about the job. That is an objective issue.

Any more attempts, or will you just call it quits?

I mean, if you keep going, the thread stays bumped and gets more exposure and you stay in something that you've suggested is annoying you, which amuses me, so I win.
If you leave, I don't have to see you any more and the thread loses more people who don't know what they're talking about pretending they do, so I win.
I win either way, but one of the ways annoys you more. So I guess that way, I super-win.

Also, you're wrong about the class becoming more complex. Iron Jaws simplifies dot refreshing so much. Which you wouldn't know, being 53 by your own statement.

I also don't see how it's more exciting to have to wait 1.5 seconds to use a proc instead of using it immediately so that you may get another one to use in the same GCD, but then I don't expect much logic from you in the first place.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The difference is that I'm looking at it reset and I can't do anything to use it immediately and potentially watch me get a double proc, wasting the first one.

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Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

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It's a lot more fun to have the option to respond to a proc quickly, I promise. Never having had it I don't expect you to understand what was lost, but it was the key "fun" element to an otherwise simple GCD.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

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Having to use straight shot more than needed is both a dps loss due to lower potency than heavy shot, and resource loss since it costs more TP than heavy shot on a class that has finite resources. It all screams bad design to me and makes the class that much less enjoyable.

On your end, its just silly/terrible design to have to ignore thundercloud procs because its a dps loss during enochian, and even then they'd mention they would look into during liveletter.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

And he lies

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Of course you didn't say anything about the job except from that, lying is wrong you know ?
RiceisNice for example, always said it was the only issue about it, I personally don't have it, but it can due to lags, BUT he never said something else about the Bard, while you were complaining about everything, quit lying, will you ?

I didn't even read your thing about winning, I don't read kids stories, sorry.

What is exciting ? I know the Bard was a no-brain class in ARR rotation-wise, but know you have some other skills to care about without talking about mechanics and dodging AOE while trying to not lose DPS. While you are not even close to a real difficult class like the Summoner or the Monk (Well all DPS class except the MCH to be honest), at least you have to be a little smarter than before to output good DPS.
But well, let SE fix that for you, you can DPS without using your brain after that, happy ?

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Snip.

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Like I said in my previous post, you can still not waste the proc, but I agree that the timing is tight and lag is also a big factor.
But I would be a little bit irritated if they did something about it. The BLM had this problem with "Firestarter" since day 1 and you really COULDN'T do anything about it if you didn't want to lose DPS.
Even if apparently, Enochian did solve the problem a bit (only from what main BLM told me, I don't have my 60 BLM), it is still really unfair to change this, while the BLM had to deal with it for almost 2 years.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

snip

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You've got about 20 posts on the forums and in every one you've been harassing people and insulting their intelligence. Not cool, dude.

I also have to disagree with your comment about MCH being s less difficult class to play. It's generally accepted that MCH is a higher skill level class because you have to manage your procs, you OGCD abilities, your buffs and especially your Wildfire all while keeping an eye on your turret just to keep up decent dps. You make one mistake on a buff phase and you'll see your numbers drop like a rock.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Snip

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I'm not insulting them, if I say something that is totally valid in the debate and a person replies with no valid points, what do you want me to say ? I love unicors and teddy bears ? Of course not, I am just salty against people who can't keep up a debate properly, but for example you got a valid point and I will answer you normally and politely.

First of, maybe I didn't make myself clear, I didn't say BRD and MCH are easy, I said they are the easiest jobs atm, I apologize for that misunderstanding.
Let me explain why I think this way.

You are totally correct on what you said, I totally agree on that, but when you see what the other DPS classes have to do to keep up an exceptional DPS, you have more things to care about.
I'll take the Summoner and the Dragoon as examples since they are my 2 level 60 jobs.

Summoner : I main it since the beginning of the game and I had a lot of trouble to play it at his best on ARR, but let's talk about HW. The class is almost the same, keep up 4 DOTs constantly, manage your Pet (Buff, make it use skills etc), Ruin all the time, Fester when we can and now we have DT that make the job really interesting and you have to be perfect since the beginning of the fight to output good numbers. We don't have Procs or that oGCD skills but just refresh all the DOTs is already something difficult, and make the best of it is even worse.

Dragoon : While I think that the dragoon was quite easy in ARR, it is way more complicated in HW. First the dragoon has a lot of oGCD skills, due to his jumps. Now we have Blood of the dragon that include some kind of Procs, postionals and timing. All that make the dragoon difficult and you have to be focused on his rotation and on the mechanics.

While you have things to take care of as BRD/MCH this is not as punishing as the other classes, that's all.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

On your end, its just silly/terrible design to have to ignore thundercloud procs because its a dps loss during enochian, and even then they'd mention they would look into during liveletter.

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And now ignoring Thundercloud during Enochian would be considered a DPS loss now that Thundercloud III has a potency of 390 (a little higher than Fire IV's 30% Astral buff). So now us BLM's have to include Thunder into our rotation again... wee.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

snip

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Yes, bard has always been a forgiving class and continues to be. WM does raise the skill floor a decent amount, but also lowers the skill ceiling.

It is interesting to see the things you point out for SMN and DRG. It seems you are pointing out the need to focus on a number of things as difficult for summoner and the need to respond quickly to a proc(that you know is coming) as difficult for DRG. In 2.0 a bard was focused on his auto-attack timing, his straight shot buff timer(which due to being proc based refresh didn't always line up like heavy thrust), his dot timers, the dot damage timing, his TP, party members MP, skills used by other party members(shroud, goad, invigorate, BLM's raging strikes, etc) and how long they're left on CD, his oGCD CDs(of which there are plenty), and where he is in the GCD. Except for 2 GCDs every 18 secs, bard was making a split-second decision on which GCD ability to use every GCD.

In 3.0, barrage was modified. 3.0 changed the hardest DPS skill to consistently use to its fullest to a simple 1-2 combo. We no longer care about our auto-attacks or their timing(nor do we have them most of the time), which was one of the biggest focus points when barrage was coming up. WM makes it so you always know what your next GCD is going to be a fair amount of time ahead. WM emphasizes the simplest part of our tool kit, essentially giving more time to focus on everything else. In ARR, I typically spent 1/3rd of the GCD deciding on which GCD skill to use, 1/3 deciding the oGCD to use, and then the last third spamming bloodletter while focusing on every little thing we have to watch out for. With WM, 2/3 of the GCD is casting. With the GCD so simple now without a proc to respond to quickly or really focus on, we just have so much time to focus on everything that needs focusing. The class just plays and feels a lot simpler and slower.

Tl;dr: the things you point out for SMN and DRG are basically things BRD lost with 3.0.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

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It's just as unfair to change how BRD worked for the past 2 years as much as it did to BLM. Both are detrimental to overall damage and how the class plays because really, it shouldn't be designed in a way that it disregards the previous tookits introduced in 2.0.

The timer's even tighter than firestarter; While you can wait off a split second off the cast or use an oGCD to immediately finish a firecast, I can'd do that with straighter shot procs, oGCD or not. And straighter shot is part of our normal rotation to refresh the buff, it already comes at both a potency loss compared to our filler skill and higher tp skill. If it wasn't acceptable for BLM, it's certainly as hell not acceptable for BRD, even if it's "fixed" for blm's case.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

And now ignoring Thundercloud during Enochian would be considered a DPS loss now that Thundercloud III has a potency of 390 (a little higher than Fire IV's 30% Astral buff). So now us BLM's have to include Thunder into our rotation again... wee.

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I'd rather the class play coherently and have their new skills add onto what they already do to accommodate their gameplay, rather than go against their previous toolkit and change it completely =/. That's why something like WM's interaciton with 2.0 bard and thundercloud during enochian bugs me so much.